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Nutritional Analysis Of A Big Brand Nut Bait
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snapper1

Posts: 3101

#44 20 May 2021 at 7.56pm

In reply to Post #41
I have always thought a nut bait is cheap to make and highly digestable , instant results what people want, it must be a nightmare sourcing decent fishmeals for a good bait company ?

scozza

Posts: 17885

#43 20 May 2021 at 6.11am

In reply to Post #39
Once a good bait always a good bait. The only thing that ruins them are sheep running off to the next big thing and trends usually driven by image. It has cost a lot of bait companies for me

I guess they either move with the tide or fall with it, it’s that simple for me. My advise is use somebody that you trust or roll your own

scaley&dark

Posts: 5442

#42 20 May 2021 at 0.28am

In reply to Post #41
Many different baits in a company range keep bored and in confident anglers amused spending their cash

keeperboy

Posts: 2559

#41 19 May 2021 at 9.35pm

In reply to Post #39
Why do companies have 5/6/7different baits? To appeal to 5/6/7 different groups of anglers. I struggle with the nut bait concepts but I get asked so many times to make one that I may just consider it 😂

Spike

Posts: 2076

#40 19 May 2021 at 9.30pm

Yet only a few weeks ago people were doing down the smaller company’s and garage rollers that put effort into making Low profit quality baits.

BlankasorusRex

Posts: 5253

#39 19 May 2021 at 9.23pm

In reply to Post #38
The thing is all of those brands that you’ve mentioned have at one time or another produced at least one or two quality baits or products. It’s just all the other stuff they peddle that lets them down.

The original Active8 was perhaps the best bait I’ve ever used.
The original fermented bloodworms from sticky were awesome.
I caught many many fish of Nash Whisky.

Just seems over time many of them loose their way a bit. Home rolling wins every time for me.

Ynnek

Posts: 820

#38 19 May 2021 at 7.24pm

In reply to Post #36
That's a fact but the brands are trying to catch anglers. They are succeeding, most anglers are obsessed with some brand or another.

It's time people open their eyes and don't take anything for granted.
Not everyone knows brands like mainline, sticky, Nash aren't offering the best baits. It's not because a bag of baits cost £11 it's excellent bait but it's catching a lot of fish

darkoL

Posts: 1821

#37 19 May 2021 at 5.14am

In reply to Post #36
Lets face it less and less people know anything about bait... They want instant result for their spent money... Same as in any other part of our lives... Majority of people just dont care anymore... And I wouldnt even say that bait companies in last 5 years at least, are doing a lot of marketing on quality of their bait... It is all about catch catch catch... Bigger issue I see here is how adverising is letting people think they have to use boilies to catch carp... And lots of them... So untrue in so many fishing situations...

scaley&dark

Posts: 5442

#36 18 May 2021 at 11.38pm

In reply to Post #35
As I call it, Top notch, or a high nutritional Value bait, you are right it is not needed to catch carp, most nut baits are not the best for a balanced diet compared to say milk proteins or fishmeals.

But for all the marketing spill, catch reports, social and cost, you would expect it to better than what the label details wouldn’t you.

Ynnek

Posts: 820

#35 18 May 2021 at 8.27pm

In reply to Post #34
Maybe a bit controversial but top notch fish nutrition is also something you don't need if there are naturals enough. A carp's diet is more than boilies...

A good boilie is a balanced bait and catches fish over a longer timeframe but being able to do this you don't need top notch nutrition.

scaley&dark

Posts: 5442

#34 18 May 2021 at 7.41pm

In reply to Post #33
EU Labels on nutrition, useful, as It confirms & mirrors what us home bait makers/rollers know.

Think the main requirement nowadays is... does it ( the mix of choice/next wonder bait ) go through a massive boilie rolling machine, and is perfectly round, smells carpy, looks consistent in colour, feels ok texture wise, and catches a few fish.

TBH I think top notch fish nutrition is not the highest priority for big bait manufactuers.

Tyto

Posts: 93

#33 18 May 2021 at 7.25pm

In reply to Post #32
Hi Smurf
Very useful information that. With the secrecy that has traditionally surrounded carp baits, I bet it pains them to actually declare what is in them ! And yet, they still manage to throw in a few ambiguities such as derivatives and products !

On my club lake, CC Moore's Live System seems to account for a fair share of captures. Whether this is due to the make up of the bait or just the large number of anglers using it, I'm not sure. So recently, I have been experimenting with a non fishmeal mix based on cereals, maize protein, milk proteins, CSL and yeast. And now with what you've told me, I too have just looked on a German bait site to see what's in the Live System. On CC Moore's site, it mentions CSL powder, yeast and
even poultry meal. But this is what I got from baitservice.de.

CC Moore's Live System Shelf Life

Composition : Grain and grain derivatives, egg products, oil seed and oil seed derivatives, water, propylene glycol, pig blood products, milk and milk derivatives, sodium benzoate.

Analytical components : Crude protein 22.1 %, crude fibre 0.4 %, crude fat 6.6 %, crude ash 3.2 %, moisture 33.9 %.

CSL could be classed as a grain derivative but there's no mention of yeast or poultry meal. If they've put up information for the wrong bait, which site would would have the correct information ?

Smurf

Posts: 3450

#32 18 May 2021 at 9.09am

In reply to Post #31
Some main brands are not too bad. The EU is our friend at times (yes believe it or not) and with EU rules all baits should be marked with its ingredients and basic nutritional content. Obviously this does not apply here in the UK any more but a few minutes on (as an example) a german bait suppliers web site and google translate and you can find some interesting things out.

Mainline Link
Soya flour full fat, cereals, pasta flour, potato protein, corn flour, soybean flour, legumes, milk protein, whey protein, soy, egg products, fish meal, EC approved flavor in powder form
Crude protein 27.5%, crude fat 9.42%, crude fiber 2.97%, crude ash, 5.02%, NfE (calc) 43.17%, sodium 0.41%

CC Moore Odyssey XXX (shelf life)
Fish and fish derivatives, grain and grain derivatives, water, GLM extract (10%), egg products, oil seeds and oil seed derivatives, propylene glycol, corn steep water, pig blood products, yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), seaweed, milk and milk derivatives, sodium benzoate,
Crude protein 30%, crude fiber 0.8%, crude fat 7.4%, crude ash 7.3%, moisture 34.3%

I am 100% confident that on most lakes and in most situations a half decent home made bait when fished back to back with any of the above will ultimately catch the same number if not more fish. It will be better for the fish (we spend how much on 'fish care' equipment so why not start off feeding them well?) A home made bait can also be tweaked in more ways to the lake and fishing situation (hard for throwing stick, soft for carp only waters, big baits for lakes with nuisance spices, soluble baits etc).

Tyto

Posts: 93

#31 17 May 2021 at 7.23pm

In reply to Post #1
Hi Chaps
You would have thought with the information available regarding the carp's nutritional requirements, that baitmakers would formulate their baits along those lines. It seems not all do !
If these baits work long term after being applied in quantity, it would appear to totally disprove the whole HNV / nutritional recognition theory. The puzzling thing is that it wouldn't cost a great deal more to boost the protein content using the likes of Supergold 60, Alpha Soy or similar.
Having said that, who knows ? Maybe it's the sub optimum protein levels that keep 'em feeding because they're never quite satisfied ! Personally, I'll keep including milk proteins, fishmeal, liver powder, yeast etc in my home made baits but if people want to pay £ 12 a Kilo for a boilie with a good amount of breadcrumb and maize flour in, then that's their business. I know that I wouldn't !

snapper1

Posts: 3101

#30 17 May 2021 at 4.05pm

In reply to Post #26


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