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In reply to Post #44
37c is the optimum for my protease but yes will work at higher temps up to 60c. You are correct that any dehydration after enzyme treatment will denature them making a powder just a soluble liver powder. The liquid version is better if you want to keep it enzyme active. I actually used the liquid to create an enzyme bait but that's a whole different headache
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In reply to Post #41
That's really interesting. Can I ask if the effective working temp of your protease is 37c, or is that a heat that you are comfortable with? As most enzymes, protease that is peak at around 55c what temp are you then dehydrating at as i would hazard a guess that if your dehydrating your hydro at 55c-70c as is what most dehydrators suggest, will that not inhibit activity as it generally takes a good 16hrs and if it hits the top temp for any duration, will that not then shut off activity with your resulting powder? Unless of course you are dehydrating longer on a lower heat?
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In reply to Post #42
I actually just dry thick cut lumps of liver, then dehydrate before grinding the hard chunks. Sadly Philip Harris will no longer supply to anyone outside school, colleges, uni's so I'm now using a good multi enzyme. I don't get any off cuts but obviously I can't hydrolise everything in the mixture as the substrate is around 60% protein leaving sinews etc, mind you those bits float up leaving a nice droplet effect
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In reply to Post #41
A perfectionist at work ! Drying out ( and I'm guessing thinly slicing ) the liver beforehand sounds like work though ! The food chopper I mentioned earlier has 4 blades and does a fairly decent job if I add some liquid. Any stubborn bits I just sieve out and the dog gets a treat. Are you still using the Philip Harris bacterial protease ?
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Just seen this thread and thought I'd add my thoughts and ideas. I do my own beef liver hydro and could also turn that into a powder but I use straight protease to facilitate the hydrolosis. I started using blended liver but omg it's messy and I found any bits more than a few mm in size wouldn't work so decided to dehydrate fresh liver and then grind to a powder. This then had water added plus the enzyme and then left for 6hrs at 37c. What you end up with is a liver liquid/waste product. This mix can obviously be used strained or as is and dehydrated again to achieve a powder if that's what you want. As well as the liver which smells amazing it will remain enzyme active unless the liquid is heated which makes one hell of a coating.
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In reply to Post #39
Yep, but liquidising the liver can be a bit messy! I'm using a Homgeek 500w food chopper . Just have to make sure that the lid is firmly sealed , otherwise the kitchen looks like a crime scene 😂.
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In reply to Post #38
Sounds good mate!
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In reply to Post #37
Made a few batches of liver and CSL already from watching his vids. Instead of his lactoserum, I'm using lactobacillus from Vadasz live sauerkraut. I put about a tablespoon of the juice into a solution of 50/50 molasses and water and incubate for a few days to grow the bacteria for a starter culture. I then ferment either liquidised liver or cracked corn in a carboy with an airlock for up to 5 weeks. The finished liquid is not as thick as commercially available ones. This is not a problem for me as I use the liquid at higher levels whilst reconstituting powdered egg for a mix. The thinner consistency is also better for using as a bait soak.
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In reply to Post #35
Look up bait tactics on you tube. South African guy he does some really interesting videos including making your own hydros liver etc
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In reply to Post #35
Oh Gosh no, not commercially. However he has been supplying quite a few seasoned anglers under the radar with products for many years, just a little different to the norm. I will ask, but don,t hold your breath. You know how secretive these old school boys can be about recipes and giving away their edges. 
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In reply to Post #34
Is it made commercially for retail ? If not, spill the beans on the process. We all love a bit of DIY bait info on here 😁
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In reply to Post #33
Thank you for explaining that, that actually makes a lot of sense. Different processes i would assume, give different aroma's. Thank you.
And yes Enzymes are used in his process, so this makes perfect sense. Apologies to all.
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In reply to Post #31
It states on the Mirage Baits website that the liquid contains no stabilisers or additives. It's a lacto fermented product which will attain a PH low enough to preserve the liquid naturally once it's ready. Any beer brewer will tell you, that you get different flavour/aroma compounds dependant on yeast strain, fermentables and fermentation conditions. This also applies to lacto ferments. Is your friend producing his liquid on a commercial scale using enzyme hydrolysis ?
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In reply to Post #31
No offence taken from me mate. I have no affiliation to Marcus watts apart from enjoying listening to his podcasts.
I have no idea about his liver hydro other than what he stated in his podcast that he orders ox liver from his local butcher and makes it himself.
What I do know is making a consistent hydro at home without dedicated specialist lab equipment isn’t easy so I would say there are many factors that could make a product that isn’t consistent or stable, this is another reason I opt for dna/baf liver hydro. I know it’s consistent as it’s produced under laboratory conditions and not someone’s bait unit.
As I side note I’m no expert but I’ve used many hydros that haven’t been particularly active. I have heard some home bait makers confuse Fermentation with hydrolysis which I know can cause containers to explode but I’m talking well outside my box now. Hopefully someone will correct me if I’m wrong.
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In reply to Post #28
Now... Please do not take this the wrong way.....
My friend, a very close one, has given me some feedback on the liver hydro after using it and having a damn good sniff. His professional opinion is , it is not a straight forward Beef liver hydro. Not at least from the way he makes it himself. There would appear to be, an underlying aroma which does not represent pure hydrolysed liver, especially Beef which is what he specialises in and would suggest to him at least, that there is another ingredient involved? Preservative or stabiliser perhaps? Activity once left in a warmer environment, will be the tell tale sign, as activity once preserved should cease or the bottle will shoot to the stars stored above ambient temperatures .Lets see. Fingers well and truly crossed.
Please do not shoot the messenger.
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