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In reply to Post #44
The liquids were incredible. The best that I have ever used 🫡
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In reply to Post #35
You are correct it did change. I was buying the base mix and rolling it myself. It stained everything it came in contact with a deep red colour. Then for no reason that stopped happening and the results fell through the floor. Shame as it was a good bait. For those in the know the liquid was a major Tench attractor. 
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In reply to Post #1
Is there no way you can get access to a freezer? This would be the better option IMO if you can find a way to do it.
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| | | Belch | | Posts: 4360 |  | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #41
So you think the Halibut Brood Powder was the key?
Anyone still on it? Use it occasionally for barbel bashing . . .always have a pot of liquid source as a glug for barbel specifically . . .
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In reply to Post #37
20% LT94 Fishmeal
10% CPSP (pre-digested fishmeal)
10% Nectarblend
10% Red Factor
10% HP Crumb (Haiths)
5% Robin Red
5% Spanish RRR
10% Lamlac
10% Maize Flour
10% Semo
Liquids:
Minamino
Secret Agent
Compound TF
Shellfish Sense Appeal
Dynamite Baits Fish Gutz?
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In reply to Post #38
I think it was some kind of halibut paste
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| | | Belch | | Posts: 4360 | | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #37
Any idea what the missing ingredient(s) could have been? Whatever they were they were obvs v important to the fish - would love to know !!!
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In reply to Post #36
The base mix changed as something became unavailable
Marcus Watts has written a chapter in the BCSG bait book about developing the bait
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| | | Belch | | Posts: 4360 | | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #35
Now that is weird as that would have been EXACTLY around the same time (mid 2000s) that it 'blew' on our lake. As you say, results stopped pretty much instantly . . .wonder if they changed some kind of ingredient / value engineered as sales went up etc
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In reply to Post #34
I swear there was a time in the mid 2000's that the Source suddenly became crap over night. It was the going bait on a lot of places and it just suddenly stopped doing fish. I remember it happening to me and others around me. Just because I remember it doesnt mean it happened though 
The shelf life version was just as good as frozen if I recall. I think a lot of people moved from shelf life Trigga, to The Source, for some reason, I can't remember
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| | | Belch | | Posts: 4360 | | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #30
Baits can 'blow' . . .or at the very least become a lot less effective. V hard mega weedy estate lake and Dynamite Baits the Source had just been released - up to this point a syndicate of 20 anglers were all using different baits and keeping results under wraps; until the local animal feed suppliers (that we all bought halibut pellets from) started knocking out frozen Source boilies at £3 per kg. Everyone got on it and started applying in quantity . . results across the whole lake improved significantly and that season everyone caught more than in any previous season . . . . they were literally ripping up weedbeds to eat it . . . . until the spring of the following season when pretty much results tailed off overnight (you couldn't buy a bite on the Source) and everyone went back to secret squirrel tactics.
At the time we blamed it on a selection of new nod members who in their infinite wisdom decided to pile in the shelf-life Source variant as they'd 'heard' it was the going bait. However I'm not sure myself - the fish maybe simply realised the bait / label spelt danger and returned to the plethora of naturals available . . . . and occasionally my B5 hookbait!
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In reply to Post #17
Active bait solutions Hydra K or K2 or essential baits B5. You will catch anywhere with those baits. I like to fish with a mix of them all with different sizes. The B5 you can get for 5.95 a kilo on black Friday deal. I always get like 40kilo to last the yr lol.
You can also buy overs from them at about 6 a kilo with post
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In reply to Post #30
Mainline Cell, Sticky Krill?
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In reply to Post #21
I don't think baits blow. I think generally, anglers just get bored of them. When a bait company brings out a new bait, then their older baits fall down the pecking order. These baits are still the same quality and will still catch fish. These bait companies do a really good job in advertising new baits with lots of catch reports etc. they do a great job in convincing people they need to be on the "going bait" through fomo.
There are that many baits about nowadays. If you walked a lake and asked every angler what they where using, it would be unlikely you would find any more than 2 using the same.
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In reply to Post #8
I had a very good season on their Artic Crab, it was excellent for me in all seasons.
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In reply to Post #27
I'm not sure that a carp can associate one taste with danger.
They must eat umpteen different things, if they can they'd have to be caught numerous times on one particular bait to make the association.
And what if during that time they get caught on another bait? I don't think they are that clever they can do a totting up process and work out the odds.
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I'm no expert, but carp are curious creatures, using a new bait could induce a response from a carp that is wary of a bait it has been caught on but still likes to eat. I'm pretty sure this is where specialized hookbaits score. You don't feed 5kg of the most expensive baits in the world do you. The cherry on the cake gets eaten.
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In reply to Post #23
Oh for sure some have some strange ideas. And the bait side of things probably causes more debate than most subjects within angling. Can't think of the last time I heard anyone other than 55s claim baits blow though Tbh
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In reply to Post #24
What's so funny? There is a big different between a 3 year angler and a 30 year one in the majority of cases
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In reply to Post #22
Experienced anglers LOL
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In reply to Post #22
I agree with all than Ian except I'm not so sure for the last sentence.
I've read articles from so called experienced anglers and many of them have said some daft things sometimes in my opinion.
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In reply to Post #21
I don't think bait companies would ever make only one bait, for various reasons. One being some waters respond much better to fishmeals, some nut baits, some birdfood baits. Another being other factors of the lake, i.e water clarity, bird life, depth etc. Some lakes are impossible to use anything but very dark baits because of birds etc. some baits are naturally firmer than others so some will go out in a throwing stick and others will just split. Some baits provide nutrients others don't which can alter their effectiveness from water to water, and also at different time of year when the fish need different things.And then we have those people who think that the reason someone is catching or not catching is down to the bait they are using. It seems to be the go to reason for someone to blame their blank on rather than themselves. Go and fish a busy day ticket water for example, catch a few fish and the first thing you'll get asked is what bait you are using, because people think that's why you're catching them as opposed to fishing well, presenting it nicely, in the right spot etc.
So realistically there is no "best bait".
Plenty of water get fished primarily on one bait, you'll find that many have a local bait company close by and "team members" get on them, catch a few and then start knocking in cheap bait to other anglers. I know of a couple close to me that have been getting the same baits going in for many years now and they work just as well even though the vast majority of anglers use them and catch the fish in them.
I absolutely believe things don't "blow" at all, and I bet very very few experienced anglers still believe that they do
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In reply to Post #19
Apologies, it was just your statement of fact rather than opinion in the original post that sounded a bit OTT.
On a very basic level - bait companies would only sell one bait (the best) if baits didn’t blow (when I say blow I mean become less effective because of continued use). The challenge I think with the main bait manufacturers you say are that because of the volume they sell, the fish up and down the country are being caught probably one in every ten thousand baits eaten so the odds are good and memory not really trained. Put that together with probably a dozen different bait companies and you are probably right that they either won’t blow or the difference will be negligible.
I don’t really fish this type of water - for the past probably 10 years I have used a brilliant quality bait that the syndicate owner put together - it was brilliant, to such an extent that even sponsored anglers had to use it on-the water in question otherwise they really didn’t catch much. Obviously the more people that used it - the more fish got caught on it - until this year when I consider it to have ‘blown’ or in my thinking become very inefficient. I would guess over 75% of fish caught were on this bait. I still used this same bait on other waters and caught well but the concentration of captures on the other water saw me change.
A blown bait (for me) doesn’t mean you won’t catch on it - it means it’s past it’s best - approached with more caution and after a few years time to change. Nothing lasts forever.
You say about fish meals and natural sources - they may be natural but they are not in their environment- hence the evolution over years from milk, bird foods, fish meal, insect meal etc. we are forever looking for a bait that can’t blow - a rolled version of a caster or a worm, something that it is impossible for a fish to ever associate with danger - if it’s round and manufactured I doubt it will ever happen.
So in my humble opinion a good bait may always be a bait with good fishing catching ingredients - it may also always be attractive- BUT it can and I believe does become less effective over time - in my head it ‘blows’.
Interesting discussion and if you have total and utter confidence in a bait,there is no better feeling - I have had my share of these times - but from personal experience a change when done thoughtfully won’t turn the clock back completely- but can re boot both catches and confidence. Tight lines..
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The other argument, is the bait really blowing or is what people putting on the hair blowing. Bet if you walked round most lakes in the country, 95% of anglers are using an “alternative” one on the rig. So not really the free bait blowing, more so a bright or over flavoured one.
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In reply to Post #18
Perfectly calm chap, not sure why you'd think otherwise? I was only saying I think you're wrong. Imo lakes will get harder over time naturally, due to the pressure of being fished for as opposed to because of the particular bait being used. People have been claiming baits blow over time, and also rigs too. I personally think both are incorrect. A good bait is always a good bait. And let's be honest, with the majority of baits containing multiple ingredients,a lot of which change themselves because they are a natural source (fish meals being a prime example) ,baits are rarely 100% identical across different batches
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In reply to Post #17
Alright matey calm down - in my opinion then yes absolutely baits become less effective over time and certainly across the seasons. I fish a water where 90% of the anglers use the ‘house’ bait and it is brilliant - but despite the change of labels it has slowed up massively and my last few fish have been on alternatives whilst still persevering with the old bait to test.
Very narrow minded to think that a bait has an unlimited lifespan - yes cell and sticky will catch but used across the land in various fashions. One bait will never keep doing it day in and day out, when it’s round and uniform.
Like I say in my opinion and having just returned home from a day session - my results have improved with a change. It’s not better it’s different.
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In reply to Post #14
Nah baits don't "blow". If they did then some of the commercially made stuff that gets used by so many anglers wouldn't work like it used to. How long has mainline cell or sticky krill for example been working places for? And things like corn, maize, tigers too.
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In reply to Post #15
" even good baits will blow"
Not convinced either. I can well understand a basic, highly flavoured ( or low flavoured as well ) semo / soya bait losing it's appeal through heavy use. I would assume that over time, the carp would just naturally need certain other nutrients and so seek them out elsewhere. Over the last 35 years of making bait, I've never experienced any baits " blow " . I just get bored or repulsed with certain smells ( Monster Crab ! ) and decide on a new one. I will add though that my mixes are around 30 - 40 % protein, 6 - 12 % fat. In recent years I've also added vitamins ( especially vitamin c ) and minerals. Just look at how well nutritionally balanced pellets are accepted, even on lakes that are regularly fished and baited with angler's bait.
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In reply to Post #14
C even good baits will
Is that completely true though
Or could it be the same as us where you become nose blind and can’t smell/taste/sense it after a while so they are not sure about it.
Not saying you are at all wrong btw.
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In reply to Post #11
I have been like that for the past 6 odd years but have changed my mind of late because
A it’s boring
B if you think of bait like a going swim - it still needs changing / proving
C it’s always a good check as even good baits will blow in my opinion
So whilst I am married to a bait - I like the occasional fling, will I ever leave the wife - possibly if the alternative is better long term…
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I can't recommend Baitlab enough. Small boutique bait maker, best bait I have used in 40+yrs.I've been using it since 2020. Call Simon, the owner, for a chat, he really knows his stuff. He has 4 main baits - ranging from a nut bait to a very fishmeal heavy bait. I have done well on all of his baits. Also just to confirm I'm in no way 'sponsored' - I pay for my bait.
LINKY POO™ https://www.thebaitlab.co.uk/contact-us
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In reply to Post #11
Just ordered some great white from a bait
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In reply to Post #1
I can't help other to say that I wouldn't change a bait just because I fancy a change.
I'd be always be asking myself if my results would have been better or worse if I had kept with the original bait. 
I'd only change if my current bait wasn't working and even then I'd give it some time before making the chsnge
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In reply to Post #9
I have. Used dna for around 4/5 years now and happy with it,I used a mix of bug,s7 and slk and had a 23 out in September on a big public park, amongst other fish,but otherwise very happy with dna,but my mate has been using bait works after no joy with cc Moore and his son is also a sticky baits user so there’s plenty to choose from
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In reply to Post #1
S7 used to be much redder in colour so presume they changed some ingredients / less Robin red or whatever it was.
Due to regulatory changes by DEFRA, synthetic dye in the original red birdfood mix is no longer permitted in fish feed. S7 now uses a completely natural red dye, which may result in a slightly lighter colour over time. However, you can rest assured that the bait remains the same top-quality red fishmeal it has always been, continuing to catch thousands of carp across the UK and beyond.
I'm a S7 user since it came out, see no reason to change, it still catches.
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Should have added RG to my original post.. They are also one I considered.
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I can recommend Oxford carp baits. I’ve always been a fish meal boilie fan but last autumn I got some mc nut to use over winter. Caught really well over winter and just carried on using it all this year and caught fish from 6/7 different lakes on it. It’s worked wherever I’ve taken it, that’s all I can ask for in a bait 👍
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In reply to Post #5
Tried some creamino last summer in France when I had to take freezer baits, nice bait but they were so far from round they were an absolute pain to try and get out with a throwing stick 😂
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If I wasn't so confident in the bait I use currently then I would give baitworks a go... But then it's never the bait is it.
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In reply to Post #3
Pretty sure Great White is the same, but Wasp and Zing have been tweaked. I think it’s more in anglers heads that the fishes! They are tweaks so I can’t see it being a problem if it does change. Jay knows what he’s doing!
Have a look on the website, he normally says what he’s changed in the bait on there.
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In reply to Post #2
I've seen people say that about Jay's baits, I presumed it was just the variations / one offs that he changed all the time? I was going to check but hoped that the main baits, Great white / Sting / Plum were all the same each batch? Or that's not the case?
I had looked at ABS some years back, will give it another look but there used to be a pretty vast range which made deciding even harder
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In reply to Post #1
Out of the ones mentioned I’d go with Jas’s bait, but don’t forget he does chop and change the recipe’s (whether that bothers you).
I know you didn’t want an alternative, but Geoff at ABS rolls the bait for Jason, and he does stabilised for most of his baits.
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As title, have used DNA for the last 4 seasons or so but just fancy a change.
Bug has been my go to but the last couple of seasons it's not smelt / felt the same as when it first came out, know it will change due to ingredients available but still, have maybe lost a little confidence in it.
So my question is.. Do I try another DNA bait? I've dabbled with S7/SLK/Switch but didn't have great results on them ( can't say I really gave them that long ) but I know S7+SLK get generally very well spoken about.
S7 used to be much redder in colour so presume they changed some ingredients / less Robin red or whatever it was.
Other ones I have narrowed it down to are -
A Bait
Possibly Sticky? But think I'd prefer to use a smaller company
Guess I'm after reviews of any of the above, preferably not recommendations of more companies as that will only add to my indecision 😂
After 2 different baits from any of the above, they must be shelf life as I don't have freezer space otherwise I would likely use Poacher.
I generally use Specialized for many of my hook baits.
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