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In reply to Post #149
You have to think that if it wasn't for the Scope/Retractable phenomenon that Nash as a brand may have disappeared a while ago.....the emergence of Trakker & Korda over the same timeframe would surely have caused significant problems....
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In reply to Post #146
Judging by the pettiness when it comes to the positioning of shelving in shops, it would not surprise me in the slightest if there is tit for tat on the accounts side of things too.
Tackle shops are in the business of selling tackle. If Y company see's sales drop because said tackle shop started selling bucket loads of X companies swivels, and X and Y used to have the same "brand ambassadors" in one shape or another, there is and will be a bit of backlash of some form.
You've only got to look at the way Sticky etc behave when it comes to bait and marketing to see that it's widespread.
To pick up on a couple of points made in previous posts....
Nash have had so many product lines in the past, you can see how they accumulate such massive losses. PegOne, The acquisition of Taska.... all big outlays that never really did the business compared to scope. It's a risk you take when trying to keep the consumer happy, a consumer that loves chopping and changing shiny things.
Also, Nash could and should have had an EU distribution base. DNA cottoned on very early to this, and as far as I know they ain't doing to shabbily for a fairly new bait company from oop norf. They don't bring out 1728938271 new products each year, just products that work from day one after being heavily tested prior to release.
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In reply to Post #128
Much as I like and respect Gary Bayes , Nash imo have never produced a good boilie.
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You only need to look how many well established bait brands there are now just in the uk compared to when Nash started.
If they all took only 1-5-10% of sales each from Nash that still a lot of lost bait income.
ABS
Mainline
Premier
Ritchworth
Kept those separate as they were mainly around back in the day now add
Sticky baits
DNA
Trent
Cc Moore
Dynamite
Blake baits
5 star
Mad
A bait
Quest
John baker
Essential
DT
Baitworks
All from the top of my head so obviously missed some
And that’s without the “smaller” known brands that have “a bit” of a following
or home rollers for themselves and friends.
I’m damn sure I wouldn’t want to be a bait manufacturer !!
2022/23 sold licenses in the uk amounted to 903216
(We know there’s probably more than that)
The Covid bubble had to burst eventually and some more brands will have a-white knuckle ride throughout the next year or so.
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In reply to Post #144
Maybe dwarf was a little exaggerated but Angling Direct, Pecheur and Nordfishing to pick 3 randomly have turnovers in the £20-£35m range (depending on the year you look at in the last 2-3 years and a simple conversion from Euro to £). With that buying power I would doubt they are bullied by any one distribution channel. Currently I negotiate contracts between a 13 billion euro client and a mid 7 figure turnover manufacturing company and I know what I would and would not expect to see in such agreements 
Nash will want to keep these guys buying tackle as that is the core business. If Nash Bait went direct sales via online these big buyers might not be so happy about doing deals on the tackle side. I am not saying this is a definite but if I was discussing supply contracts between these guys I would look at details like this.
One thing I did notice last night is that Nash in Europe are the distribution channel for CC Moore over the channel. From the 1st of September Fox will be the European distributor for CC Moore. I can't see that Nash Bait stopping the day before this change is just a complete coincidence?
Alan did mention exporting hassle in the podcast as a contributing factor. If they were also involved with the exporting/importing of CC Moore and they have now lost that then that would make just exporting Nash Bait even less cost effective when you spread your costs over less goods. I have no idea of the ratio of Nash Bait to CC Moore in Europe and suspect it was very much in Nash Baits favour but even so it could be another nail in the coffin.
Anyway I have waffled on enough now, time to do some work and at the end of the day I am sorry to see any company shut up and bait companies even more so as the history of the products and the knowlage the staff have will be in part lost.
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In reply to Post #138
That not wanting to sell direct excuse is all Bull. They had to throw something over board as the whole ship would of sunk.. 
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In reply to Post #142
"There are some major angling companies in the UK and Europe that dwarf Korda on turnover and profit..."
Dwarf? Really? Who are they?
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In reply to Post #142
I believe the Korda clothing came about due to the fact that most shops didn't want to hold the that much stock compared to what is in the range given the cost to have a few sizes of everything.
Plus the stock is seasonal, so if a shop got a load of shorts and t-shirts in spring and doesn't shift them by autumn, they are technically left with dead stock, especially now new styles of clothing release every year.
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In reply to Post #141
Can be risky business dictating terms like that, people might accept them but through gritted teeth and they don't forget.
There are some major angling companies in the UK and Europe that dwarf Korda on turnover and profit....yes they want Korda but Korda also wants (needs) them so contracts will be mutually beneficial I am sure
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In reply to Post #140
Or maybe now Korda are to big in the carp fishing game that they can dictate what they want in contracts
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In reply to Post #138
I suspect they may have signed some distribution agreements that would not allow them to sell direct, it's what I would do if negotiating an agreement with them as a large tackle seller. Nothing is impossible to get out of but the cost to do so might be more than they would make buy selling direct for several years.
Or maybe as Alan said they just don't want to go down that route as it will require a further investment in setup including staff, website, warehousing, distribution etc. If money is tight at the moment (which accounts would suggest it is very tight) then this is a major outlay that still might not work as they are simply 'late to the party' (by choice) of supplying direct.
I find it interesting that Korda get away with it on their clothing website but maybe Mr Fairbrass had the insight to not get tied up with a clause like this in the past.
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In reply to Post #138
It doesn't make any sense I agree.
Sounds like a load of old bullpoop to me.
Just trying to cover up the truth IMO - nobody wants their bait anymore.
If the bait was popular & flying off the shelves then surely they would keep producing & raise the price a little if really necessary?
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In reply to Post #137
What I'm baffled by is when they kept saying they weren't prepared to sell bait direct to the customer because it would cut out tackle shops. Well by not making bait anymore they are cutting out tackle shops
They even said if they sold direct then it would reduce costs significantly. Hmmm so they would rather make people redundant and not cut out tackle shops who they will be cutting out by not making bait anyway.
Make it make sense ???
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In reply to Post #135
What are you doing man, being all sensible and balanced!
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In reply to Post #133
Plenty of time too,if we could all live on the bank we would catch more
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I'm sorry to hear such a big name in bait has called it a day.
Some of the comments on here show a no real knowledge about how any large company works and how product development, especially if you can stick it under 'R&D', can have tax benefits and is just part of the development cost of any product.
'Freebies' are offered by nearly every company that develops anything not just tackle and bait.
I doubt very much that giving away 5, 10 or even 15 tons of bait a year has a massive effect on the bottom line. A quick look at the last 3 years turnover for the Nash Group and it's dropped from £22m to £14m in 2023. If they gave away 15 tons of bait every 6 months, at a guessed cost price of £3 per kg (if its even that high to them, could well be half this) that is £90k....out of even £14m that is peanuts as a marketing cost.
An accountant could tell you more about the stability of the group from looking at the accounts but the last 3 years were going down so I am not surprised they have made such a bold change to protect the core business.
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In reply to Post #131
I’ve thought about this not just bait but tackle as well. Nobody will say how much money is spent on consultants or sponsored anglers bait or tackle and how this impacts the RRP
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In reply to Post #132
Back on tiger nuts & maize and he will probably catch just as many.
Good anglers will always catch fish, regardless of what company bait they use, just the right location, right time and simple rigs 
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I'm very curious about which baits they'll use in their next vids, especially Samir how can he will do without the tiger slush 
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Listened to the podcast, one of them talking of a French trip and that he could have literally made a sofa out of the bait he pilled in. Times this across god knows how many free loaders that ponce bait out the back door it’s no wonder they’ve gone under. Always thought this when buying bait, it’s expensive not cos of the quality, it’s to pay for all the “famous” lot to go fishing.
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In reply to Post #124
Wasn’t there a recall on the double sided bait screws a while back due to concern over fish mouth damage
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In reply to Post #127
Yes they were at a one time.
No need to get your pants in a twist over it.
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In reply to Post #123
Nash baits very good.? 
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I've never been much of a Nash consumer,the last thing I remember paying money for was a chair 20+year's ago which is still going strong to this day,the only positive thing Nash for me over the last few years has been some of the off the hook interviews, particularly liked Pete springate, Chris Yates, Jeremy wade,Martin bowler and Nigel bothaway.
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In reply to Post #124
For me, being tight, there's no way I'd be paying £15 per kg of bait that will basically be funding even more over plugged social media films where everything is name dropped continually....to the extent I/people switch off as is repetitive
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In reply to Post #119
Wonder how much money went into “developing” and manufacturing of the 2 modern classics.
The runway
And
the butt cushion
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The baits were very good but things seem to have changed with the many many trends & anglers about these days with regards bait.
So much social media driven content in all it's forms, I'm glad I fished in a time when you had to think your way through, around the many problems you faced, along with chatting to like minded addicts by the waterside.
Shame if the company goes, hardly own much of their products, the surface controllers are decent & baiting spoon is a nice bit of kit.
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Still haven't forgiven them for not repairing the seam tapes that fell off my original Titan bivvy, after two weeks, back in the 80's.....:(
Regards Tad.
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In reply to Post #120
I am not anti Nash at all, but they said the bulk of sales are into the EU, so maybe their decision not to subcontract to an EU manufacturer was ultimately a mistake?
Also the massive rebrand - maybe that cost a lot of money and didn't really impact on the actual problem?
Maybe the volume of free / discounted bait being given out was a factor.
The other thing I find with Nash (even though I have a lot of their gear!) is that they set their prices at a premium level across the board, I think with some stuff they need to price more competitively, I am thinking like when they released scope seat covers for about £40. You can get them for a fiver off Amazon. Yes, add carp tax but not that much.
I am not saying these decisions would have sunk other companies though.
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In reply to Post #119
Am curious. Can you give some examples of the bad business decisions that have been made that would sink other companies?
Ta.
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In reply to Post #118
I was also told that their machines were struggling with the brand new bait they are/were releasing. Could be total tosh, then again I couldn't tell you what their latest bait is as I don't pay attention to any market, let alone the constant stream of new and soon-to-be discontinued releases in the world of Nashbait.
Funny how most companies with the longest longevity and proven results seem to be those who have been in the game for donkies years yet have only released 5 or so boilies to the market.
Everything just screams of desperation. Blair said himself that he has made some shocking decisions over the years.
I don't want to batter them while they are down, but christ, you could name a dozen or so business/product decisions from them that would sink 95% of companies out there, yet Nash has managed to somehow cling on despite one binned venture after another.
Now the bubble has burst, (thankfully) people are starting to see through it and i'm hoping some proper innovative and savvy people start to bring reliable products to the market which don't just cater to bored adults who's idols are 20 year olds on Youtube. It's all a bit sad really.
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In reply to Post #116
They laid a few off from the bait side 2/3 weeks before xmas as well.
Then took them back end of January...
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In reply to Post #116
I had a quick look on companies house, it is pretty complicated because there's a holding company, and the accounts lag by at least a year, but none of the figures make good reading. Sales down a lot and costs up.
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In The podcast alan also said that they had made people redundant in January from other parts of the business.
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In reply to Post #112
Speaking with a friend the other night and he said something that really made me chuckle..." are you surprised the bait sides gone tits up when there main handle has been "bread bomb business, bruv" for the last 5 years 
Also has anyone herd of how they changed there discount structure with the retailers over the last few years? Sounds like they have been in trouble on that side as well
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Heard a rumour the lot is going under and it only a matter of time now was told he owes his suppliers millions one of the reason you can’t get hold of the new subterfuge gear is he hasn’t paid the bill
But like I say this is only a rumour from someone in the trade
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Hello everyone,
I'm not really surprised by the shutdown of Nash baits, as there were already major problems with the distribution of CC Moore.
I think the closure of Nash baits is just an excuse to save the Nash company. Yes, it's possible that baits aren't profitable, but I think they'd rather cut off an arm than a head.
Having worked in the fishing industry in France, I know very well that UK brands are much more aggressive than French brands, especially when it comes to store margins. I simply think that sales of Nash bait & tackle are declining (in France) or at least are not homogenous across the country, but above all that investments (trip to the USA for Nash France, employees paid handsomely for very little, stand at increasingly imposing trade shows....) have made the Nash company's economy very fragile.
I won't even mention sponsoring. They've fallen into the trap of sponsoring 2.0, where today's sponsors prefer 600 kg of free boilies a year to free fishing tackle. In short, the company needs to be restructured as soon as possible.
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For me they lost their way massively.
If you go after a target audience of urban Baseball cap wearing poachers that have never cast a waggler n a stream then it’s a bit rich to not expect this same audience to drift off and get back into skateboarding, drugs and ‘going down the gym’.
For years Nash’s credibility pricing wise has been shot - when you sell old stock at 75% discount you are revealing the massive margins and a mark 2 only ever being months away. Korda, Fox, Solar and the like have deals but not like Nash.
It would be a huge shame if nash went - because any lost competition and jobs is a sad state of affairs, but the constant stream of updated tat undermines them. I have items from pretty much all of the popular manufacturers but can’t think of a single nash item that I take every week. I mean the bushwacker looks a right laugh - I’d love to put 64 yards together on a breezy lake whilst other anglers enjoy my sweating frustrated demeanour as I realise to get 60 yards out straight I need to steer left 180 degrees and be proficient in reverse parking a American road train.
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In reply to Post #110
Probably tells you why it's just closed it's doors
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What struck me listening to the podcast was how they were talking about how much free bait they were going to order before it shuts.
Fair enough having the odd tub of pop ups but expecting “a few hundred kilos” of free boilies from an operation that has failed just seemed odd to me after they had been talking about how hard it is to make a profit.
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In reply to Post #34
I make this correct, squeeze hard working people for every penny they’ve got and then still expect them to have enough spare money to splash out on what essentially is luxuries to keep these huge firms/industries in business, it’s just not happening is it!
It’s pretty simple, if people feel like they have residual money they will spend it, new cars/move house/renovate/extend/holiday/buy more fishing/golfing/camping kit etc etc so if these firms are going down the pan due to lack of sales that tells you all you need to know!
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In reply to Post #106
Not meaning to be.... but uncle Tim was never backwards at coming forwards over ethics or matters of principle.....  
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In reply to Post #102
The thing with bait prices is a lot of the shop retail company's have been canning the arse out of it for years with there mark up.. now inflation has slowly caught up with it all. There's not the Margins there ever was. There realising there's only so much you can charge for a kilo of fish food.. if Alan Blair thinks charging 18 quid for a jar of nuts would of helped them out a bit better..he's probably the reason there in the situation there in..  
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In reply to Post #105
Just typed a response to that and re-read your message... Bit controversial there...
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In reply to Post #103
Yep.... but what amazed me was how so little was said in mags like carp talk and carpworld. No idea why? Sarcasm switch now off....
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In reply to Post #95
Seems like the carp angling fraternity have short memories in France. I know a few French anglers who have been / are sponsored by Nash. Always surprised me that they would want to be associated with them after Cavagnac (although that took place a long time ago now) Cheap bait / tackle and any sense of moral compass goes out the window for some...
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I’ve listened to the podcast & a lot of what’s said is disingenuous. The jars of tigers should be £18 not £12? Really!? Selling kilo bags of boilie at 3 for 2 price made it unviable? Really?
What about the droves of social media wannabes you give free bait to hoping to flood the social media market? If you limited that you’d save fortunes. How much was providing each of those with free bait providing in sales? Yes I understand you need sponsored anglers, but nash had loads of them. All with NT in their usernames to show their affiliation. Maybe at some time flooding socials like this reaped benefits. But people see through this eventually.
That said maybe I / we are not the target audience. I for one cannot understand the love for Alan Blair. Literally just piggy backs onto other people’s fishing and shouts bruv a lot. I also doubt him saying they weren’t prepared to use inferior materials in their products a strange one. Doesn’t stop them outsourcing manufacturing to China does it. Be a shame if Nash was to go, but it feels the writing is on the wall to some degree. They’ll be banking on this new scope range to get them out of trouble
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In reply to Post #97
English carp fisherie helping themselves to a free supply of stock from public waters.. that's not going to upset anyone is it...As we all know they were all at it at some point 
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In reply to Post #98
Must be up **** creek if they cant get a line of credit
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In reply to Post #97
Pm for you.
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In reply to Post #96
Yes, but if you can't pay your manufacturer for them ,you can't sell them
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In reply to Post #95
What was the Cavagnac affair please.....?? Ta
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I don’t understand how this impacts the Bushwhacker. Even if they have cash flow issues, surely you try and sell more of your best products?
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Just watched the Nash podcast.... apparently, rising costs and brexit key factors behind the decision to close the bait section. I wonder how much impact the Cavagnac affair hurt sales in France?
I'm not a Nash fan and have tried to avoid using anything Nash branded following bad experiences with the original titan, but I felt genuinely sorry for AB as he seemed genuinely sad at having to make staff redundant.
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In reply to Post #82
That’s good advice
AKA reality check. I love my fishing and have lost my way a couple of times in the past but have managed to remain grounded, TF 
Variety is the spice of life
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No one needed to blow it to bits. That fish had been caught previously many times. People knew where it lived. But respectful people, who all loved the river. The area was safe for many, many years. That all went out the window in 24 hours with the pest & Oli. No one needed to drone the entire area up & post it all online. No one needed to bring film crews & all the associated folks down there, before they had even landed a single carp. How tragic can you really get?
Everyone knows that it was not 50+. I was fishing that night. He got consultants from various bait companies down there to take the photos, including Oli. All of them non Thames carp anglers. No one saw it weighed. No photos or video of the first Thames 50+ being weighed. He knew exactly what he was doing. In the same way the following day Oli knew exactly what he was doing. You earn a name like 'the pest'. That name was given to him 30 years ago by Geoff Bowers I am told. The following weekend my friend sat on the bench in the park, watched young snap back carper, after young snap back carper walk up the stretch. That was a direct result of Oli Davis.
The very well respected bloke who showed Oli & co Bled, told me it was the single biggest mistake of his life when he worked for Nash. Destroyed the place he loved, to the point where he never went back. That's what they do. When Oli was doing that for his work, it's half understandable to an extent. What he did with that Thames fish was so out of order though. It had zero to do with him. He just did it for sheer Instagram likes.
The Thames record has been broken at least three times since, all by the same fish. Photos don't get shown, nothing gets publicised. That's directly to keep it well away from all that lot.
It broke my fishing heart. I know that sounds tragic, but it's the truth. That's exactly what they wanted. To this day I still don't know why. I'm big enough to accept that it is all long in the past now. But Oli Davis owes me an apology for that. That will not happen though.
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In reply to Post #91
Fair comment.
What I meant was I'm not saying anything here behind anyones back. I've had this exact conversation with Oli himself. That's not 'to face' as I put it, it's online. Not sure how you even describe that, but not how I did there. They all know without any question whatsoever that I'd say the same shizzle to their faces, all day everyday & twice on a Sunday.
No one is saying things like what Essdee did below with out the person being spoken about's knowledge. I would hope not anyway. Oli can very easily talk to me.
I'm not a monster, I certainly would not want the bloke topping himself, whatever has gone on in the past. I used to like the bloke. But the fact remains, he went out of his way to cause as much trouble as possible for me with my personal fishing. I've also had a world of crap with work to do with them. The contract add ons I mentioned earlier with certain anglers using our stuff just a couple of months ago comes from the same place. There's so much other work related stuff that I can't even be bothered to mention here.
I'm not the one creating this, they are. I just gave up taking their shat & staying silent about it is all.
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In reply to Post #89
“I've told him online to his face that he's an absolute nod.”
How does that work then?
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In reply to Post #88
Tell you what.... Tell your pal Oli to apologise to me for what he did. I'll shake his hand and it will all be water under the bridge. It will never get mentioned again.
The last time I spoke to the pest, all he could do was say sorry for sheeping me up and instantly lucking that fish. Swore blind to me (I did not ask), that because of him catching that fish under those circumstances, he would hold it back for a while & would not go public. I thanked him.
The following day, Oli Davis was the public spokesman to blow that area and the entire Thames to bits. Very deliberately so. Drone videos of the whole stretch, the entire lot. When I asked Oli why he was doing this.... All I got was tales about the pests mental health (bit like you now), how it had saved his life. They did not need to do any of that. They WANTED to do all of that.
Then they went off to fish other areas, to catch a few fish for the stupid videos you all watched. All total bull****. He'd caught a solitary fish donkeys years before when Terry Hearn had taken him.... They had fallen out at this point, or so I was being told. That biggun was his second Thames carp since one trip many years before when Terry took him. Now go watch all the bull**** videos again.
Oli decided to get himself involved in all that, he was the one who blew it all completely to bits online for the pest. The public spokesman for his pal. You tell Oli to apologise to me for that, I'll shake his hand and it will never get mentioned ever again. Until that day, I care as much about him, as he did about me.
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In reply to Post #88
What the same Oli Davis that laughed in my face online as he blew the Thames to pieces for his pal the pest? A deliberate ploy too. I'm very well educated thanks. You should educate yourself.
The weekend after he did what he did for his Instagram likes, 50 Nash kids walked up that stretch, the fish was dead within months. I'm not the only one they have done that too. Sheeping the **** out of me was one thing, what came instantly afterwards was another. Oli chose to get himself involved in that.
Tell Oli Davis to come laugh in my face now. Because the mug does not seem to want to interact with me no more suddenly. He's an internet fluffer. Nothing more, nothing less. I would not piss on him if he was on fire. He's just been at the helm of a thirty year old bait company going bust. I am meant to care about someone who did not give a single solitary **** about my mental health? All he had was excuses of how the second Thames fish that idiot friend of his had caught had saved his sad life. Pretty much **** me..... Nah **** him. I'll laugh at him as much as I want. I've told him online to his face that he's an absolute nod. I pretty much gave up carp fishing, certainly publicly after all of that. I did not fish the river I'd fished my entire life for many, many years. Oli had never fished it. He just revelled in destroying it for some likes. You really expect me to care about him?
I had previously always got on well with Oli before that, for many years. The Thames diary that went on our work page caused all of this. Out right deliberate savagery from absolute mugs connected to other bait firms. You expect me to give two ****s about his mental health now? Do me a favour. His poor me act now can go **** itself as far as I'm concerned
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In reply to Post #67
I think you need to educate yourself on what Oli Davies does now and has done in the past before gobbing off on here and proving your ignorance.
And without being too specific, not too long ago, mental health was taking such a massive toll that suicide was being seriously considered.
Imagine being put right back in that place by reading on here that you're basically not worthy of your job.
Do better ffs.
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In reply to Post #83
I was going to say Maddocks.. but could easily be Nashy. All full of the same self importance..
This reminded me of a story once. A mate of mine worked in quite a well known tackleshop for the time in the late 80's. Mr Maddocks was having a business meeting or something with the shop owner. He made all the shop workers line up and Mr Maddocks on arrival went down the line shaking hands with everyone. Like you were being introduced to Royalty or something..
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In reply to Post #84
No. The clue is in the very title of the thread.
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Here's a full timer story from the the bank.
I once sat in a swim I was fishing, with a young carper who had popped in for a chat. Lad was twenty two, or twenty three, his own gardening business, a very young family. Well known full timer arrives. Likely mid fifties. We all sit there drinking tea chatting. Full timer starts telling us how he married this girl who's parents were absolutely minted... Because the parents were buying them a house if they got married. Had a kid with her, then divorced her, taking half the money from the house. Went back fishing for years off of the proceeds. All planned.
Bragging about it to us, like we would be somehow impressed at what he was telling us.
Full timer departs. Young bloke turned to me and said, "I would literally kill myself if I ever became that person". "What sort of sick **** brags about that".
That sort of mentality comes from a life of never working. Not living in the real world. A lifetime of having smoke blown up his arris & doing whatever he can just to sit on the bank permanently. The reality is a very sad, waste of a life. Morals simply do not exist.
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In reply to Post #83
I'm going with TP 
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In reply to Post #81
No comment....
I was not there. Plenty of others were though. All with the same story.
The clue is here in this thread though
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In reply to Post #80
Quote.... Still I suppose its about choices, if it really ticks your box crack on, but my advise to the youth would be. expect **** all out of life if so.
My advice to the youth would be this... Get yourself a good job... Go out and get your end away as often as is humanly possible whilst you are young enough. Carp fishing will always be there.
You don't want to be sitting on the bank at 50 festering, with not a pot to piss in.... Looking back wishing you had treated the ex missus better, or shagged a few birds instead of sitting in a bivvy pulling yourself off constantly.
It's no life.
Carp fishing media has a lot to answer for. Selling young blokes dreams that are not in anyway real or based on reality. None of their hero's sitting on the bank earn much money. But they 'think' that they all do. Who in their right mind never wants a woman in their entire life? Certainly not me. If you wish to aspire to that, more power to your elbow. But you will end up a very sad & lonely old person with very serious mental health issues. No amount of adulation from a few hairy arsed blokes on social media will ever compensate for that.
As human beings, we all go to school, then we all go out to work. A man does this to provide for his family. These things are what form us all socially. If you never go to work your whole life, it makes you into a certain type of very selfish person. Socially defunct pretty much. Without the morals most of the time that everyone else has. No amount of photos of big carp or adulation on social media can ever replace real life.
Don't waste your life sitting on the bank kids. There has to be a balance.
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In reply to Post #78
At one of the first carp shows, a major figure from within the industry stood in front of a crowd of people upstairs... Looking down on the crowds of carp anglers below, he declared... "You see all this, I created all of this"
Cringefest, was he pissed, or just believing his own overhyped ego.
Any clues to who this was... sounds like the 2nd coming of the Lord.
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In reply to Post #66
So true
I also wonder how many REALLY enjoy it, thrashing their mind to catch a fish to stay in the "frame"
Still I suppose its about choices, if it really ticks your box crack on, but my advise to the youth would be. expect **** all out of life if so £
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In reply to Post #76
https://i.imgur.com/K9Odx9q.jpg
Make your account non private. That above is a direct link from Imgur Framey. You, or anyone else this is how I post photos. When using the mobile app (as I'm guessing you are), if you click on the photo itself it will give you the option to directly copy the link. Do not do that. Open the little share arrow in the bottom right hand corner when you click on your Imgur photo, & click 'copy post link' when the options to share pop up.
Then simply insert that into what is below here. You need to add a hyphen < to the start of that. If I do it here it tries to create a link & you cannot see it.
img src= YOUR LINK HERE width=600>
So inserting that top Imgur link I posted at top of page will then produce this.
Removing the link hyphens from start and end so you can see whole lot without. If I add the two < > to start and finish of that it will post the photo above.
img src= https://i.imgur.com/K9Odx9q.jpg width=600
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In reply to Post #75
Quote... Carp fishing hall of fame = mutual masturbation.
Nail on the head.
It's all so cringeworthy when they are doing it themselves. But it sort of shows the mentality of the people involved. "Let's come up with a carp fishing hall of fame". "We will vote ourselves in for services to carp fishing". PMSL. Just have a mutual five knuckle shuffle with a group hug and be done with it.
At one of the first carp shows, a major figure from within the industry stood in front of a crowd of people upstairs... Looking down on the crowds of carp anglers below, he declared... "You see all this, I created all of this". They literally think that they invented carp fishing. That's the mentality. They all slap each other on the back constantly. Bunch of absolutely clueless nods in reality. Just with an immense sense of great self importance. Their own skewed media & patting each other on the back for years created all that. It's so cringeworthy that it defies belief.
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Never used Nash Bait or pay attention to social media/carp fishing podcasts so didn’t even know Nash Bait was still going?
Can’t recall seeing it in a tackle shop for donkeys years.
Although I have bought Sting pop ups from Handcraft Baits and I believe that was a Nash flavour.
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In reply to Post #74
It’s only my boat
It says it’s a hidden photo
Probably why it doesn’t link lol
I’ll have a look at how to unhide it
Uploadit.org premium is what I used to use until it disappeared with all my images and killed my web site.
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In reply to Post #70
Carp fishing hall of fame = mutual masturbation
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In reply to Post #73
Thanks.... I'm trying
Enjoy your fishing trip. I tried to post your photo for you but the link is not working.
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In reply to Post #72
Quote...I didn’t say it wasn’t lol
Well if everything he said is true, whose fault is it exactly?
everyone in the “industry” not just his, I was just mocking.
You are Correct, they don’t need to “bend anglers over” but in the same token
Anglers shouldn’t be easily hooked.
You know the saying about a fool and his money.
Anyway,
seriously, enjoy your holiday
And think of us poor suckers in the ****ty English weather
I’m out on my boat at the weekend getting my hands dirty tinkering again
I will have at least 1 rod out and hopefully no t shirt on so I can top up my tan.
But at least I know no one will come and cast into my water lol
https://imgur.com/a/pjylPz9
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In reply to Post #71
Quote...I didn’t say it wasn’t lol
Well if everything he said is true, who's fault is it exactly?
Quote... Mags need to sell advertising to make it pay.
That's you washing over the indefensible. Yes they needed to sell advertising. What's wrong with honest advertising? It does not mean that they needed to bend anglers (their loyal customers) over and treat them like complete and utter fools to do that though. What else are 100% biased, paid for reviews? Basically just pure lies, under the guise of an honest review. Telling you something is amazing and you should buy it, even when they know that it's absolute junk. Lovely.... There is no excuse for that whatsoever Framey. It's just treating people like absolute fools. Their own customer base. That's never going to end well.
Everyone needs to make a living you're right, everyone needs to eat.... Does not make it okay to go out & stab people to get the money though. There is right, and there is wrong. That above is so wrong on so many levels.
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In reply to Post #70
“Every single word Baitman said is true though.“
I didn’t say it wasn’t lol
Everyone is looking for a living
Mags need to sell advertising to make it pay
You tube require you to click to make it pay
Instagram probably does also .. I only have an instagram account because it’s tied in with Facebook.
And I’m too old for Tim tok
I said it earlier
It’s a race to the bottom where bait is concerned
Everyone wants to pay the least they can
And let’s be honest
It could be any old crap going into most bait but if you market it well enough it will sell.
Ali hamidi crying his eyes out because he’s bought out a death rig component
Look at the ronnie rig
Wasn’t it originally tied using braid and now there’s a myriad of components sold to make it work.
Can I rephrase it
InStead of a race to the bottom where bait is concerned and change it to carp fishing
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In reply to Post #69
Quote....So it’s all Tim paisley’s fault lol
Every single word Baitman said is true though.
You only need biased, paid for reviews, to sell absolute junk, to idiots.The people behind that, truly believe/d that we are/were all idiots. Why would anyone look up to that or respect it? I certainly never have. It sickened me. You only need a completely biased media, when advertisers money is involved... Then the truth becomes no longer relevant. They all cried that the internet brought down the magazines.... Balls did it, they 100% did it to themselves. Pumping out the same old crap, whilst telling the kids that a bunch of their pals, mainly all terrible carp anglers, were the dogs danglers. I was asked for years to write in CarpWorld. Over & over again. Apart from one thing (pressure from Lew at Gardner), I always flat out refused. You have to have some principals in life. I would never even dream of reading it after it went so far downhill, so why would I write articles for it?
How many times did anglers want to see Julian Cundiff rehashing a photo of a 12lber? Whilst telling any novice reading to go out & buy Key Cray? Or how to tie a PVA bag with a certain companies pellet, 79,666 times. Now they are all putting themselves into the carp fishing hall of fame for all that! The carp fishing hall of fame that they themselves came up with! It was/is all a sick joke. It was all just a means to keep them & their pals relevant. Carp fishing is formed of gangs when it comes to selling stuff. The magazines started all that. The best products in the world would NEVER get a mention, not if it did not suit a certain gangs agendas. That's still the way that it operates today. The companies themselves just now produce all the media. Watch a podcast, you will see anglers bigged up constantly as the best thing since sliced bread. Only if their using the gear that makes the podcast producers or their pals money. That's not real. It's just biased media to sell stuff. You only need biased media to sell crap. Quality sells itself. It always has.
I've always stayed as far away from it all as is humanly possible, work or play. Let them all crack on with it. Does it make the pastime I love a better thing though? Of course it does not.
Biased media is a terrible thing in carp fishing & always has been since certain mags went that way. That's just my opinion. Right or wrong it's an opinion that i stand by.
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In reply to Post #68
So it’s all Tim paisley’s fault lol
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In reply to Post #67
Cynical old sods (me included) can see through the turkey teeth smiles and fake gloss.
I remember when carpworld was our bible, some great articles by respected anglers.
Then it became an advertising machine...
The articles greatly favoured the anglers who also worked for the companies that were regular advertsers, and so the wheels were greased until it was on the verge of perpetual motion.
You pay for advertising and we will include an article that also promotes your products!
Don't get me started on reviews!
Pay for a nice advert and our shepherd's will tell the sheep what an amazing product this is... and slowly the quality and credibility of the magazine and writers became infected with a virus.
This virus then made the jump from print to free shop cds, YouTube, then social media.
Many of these "sponsored" anglers are influencers, media whores, lots of free stuff to promote, even if they are catching on tigers or some other bait, etc.
Their influence stretches further, when their boss can arrange to have areas of lake closed and prebaited, all in preparation for their boy to turn up and smash it and make the next video.
The next thing seems to be using sex! Nothing sells like sex...
Attractive young girls holding up carp that their boyfriend has probably caught, or a couple of milfs with their tits swinging around trying to escape their feeble restraints. Put a jumper on ffs
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I'm laying on the beach, just having a little rant today. Just for some context of things that I said earlier. There are plenty of young men at Nash Bait who have just lost their jobs. Blokes who brought serious value to that company.
Meanwhile, the social media lot, who just take photos and flood 'the Gram' daily, their jobs are safe. Because there is some crazy perception in todays world that these blokes bring value. What value exactly does someone like Oli Davis bring to the table? Takes a wage, as far as I can see brings absolutely zero 'value' to the table for that company. Just social media lovelies. "Look at this photo of a sunset". "Look at this photo of me living it up whilst you lot all pay the price". "Now go buy some bait that's not very good".
But young carpers aspire to be that person, because of social media. The way I see it, he's just there to influence young carpers to buy the stuff. Nothing else. Young anglers are not buying the stuff though, otherwise they would not be going under. Yet still, the cycle continues. The blokes in the factory producing the bait are the ones who lose their jobs.
You think Oli & his ilk make your Bushwhacker pole any better? Or is the reality just that their wages double the price of the kit that you pay in the first place? The Bushwhacker is an exceptional product, that sells itself. It does not need media influencers to sell it... In the same way that the original Oval brolly from Nash did the same thing, without influencers and tonnes of free media. Or the original Scopex Squid? None of these things needed media lovelies to sell them. They sold themselves like an exceptional product always has, like an exceptional product always will. You need media lovelies & a teflon smile to sell crap. Ask Ali. But that has a very limited lifespan. What's the answer? To me, since social media sprang up this has all become a bit of a joke now. It's made a joke of carp fishing. We are hairy arse anglers, not women to be fawning all over blokes who take photos on social media, or who are on the TV. One of the iconic brands just went under... With these media lovelies at the helm. Who would have ever imagined that was even possible, a PLC, one of the greatest brands carp fishing has ever known.
You have to take your hat off to Korda & Mr F. They don't have these legions of sponsored lovelies in general. They actually rely on top notch kit. A small band of paid & very well respected UK anglers, who actually all need to bring value to the table. The exact same way that Nash used to be. Yes they have their entertainers & pump out the media... But you don't hear people speaking constantly about the terrible quality of Korda kit. You don't hear DnB over every bit of media that is pushed out. Anglers like Tom Dove & Darrell Peck are actually top of the tree carp anglers in the real world of UK carp fishing. Oli & Alan have never been that. Not ever. There lies the big difference. Mr Nash got old, as we all do. Gary Bayes retired. Where are the new oval brollies & the new SS & the like going to come from? If you think that stuff is going to come from media lovelies, you are very much mistaken. The proof is in the pudding of what has just happened.
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In reply to Post #64
The funniest thing about UK carp fishing is the way these blokes get put up onto pedestals. People (some not all) of who have never done a single days work in their entire life. They laugh at people who go to work on camera. You wonder how these people manage it for twenty five years, fishing all around Europe. It gives the impression they must earn an absolute fortune from consultancies.... Yet nothing whatsoever could be any further from the truth. It's an absolute pittance. Anglers put them up onto pedestals.... Their fellow leech's making the media perpetuate the illusions for them.
It's those poor anglers doing the hero worshiping, who go out to work five days a week who pay for them. When you eventually find out they have heavily disabled family members who always required carers en masse... You start to work it all out. The hows, and the whys of their full time angling.
Carp anglers will hero worship men like the above. That's not a 'man' though. That's a parasite, just like you said. The worst thing is that it's a parasite who will openly brag about it on camera. Running down people who actually go out to work & funded their entire life style for decades. These kind of people have the morals of a sewer rat. That's actually offensive to a sewer rat.
We wonder why the UK is now fecked.
Just waiting for some more fake profiles to turn up.....
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Nash as a whole seem to have fallen out of popularity in recent years.
They've made some good gear & bad. During COVID their tackle went steeply down hill. I bought a Nash pod during that time. When I opened the bag & a pile of brass swarf fell into my lap with dodgy threads. I returned it to the shop & got a replacement which was exactly the same. So I swiftly returned & got a refund.. I'm not a Nash hater BTW. I own a pair of cork Dwarfs as my main rods which I absolutely love.
But back to bait, I seem to remember that Nash was popular in the late 90's/early 00's. Scopex Squid should surely deserve a place as one of the all time greats? (Of it's time anyway).
It is a shame I suppose but there's so much better quality bait & companies around now.
I doubt they will be missed for too long.
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The best thing will be watching all their consultants "if you can call these parasites that" running to the next bait company that is stupid enough to have them.
They'll all be doing a Shelley
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Was in my local AD last week guys in there said no one ever buys Nash bait…in over 40 years of carp fishing I never used it but why didn’t they go down the route of mail order like ABS and DNA etc
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In reply to Post #60
Well yes, unfortunatly for them I think that you summarised pretty much what their strategy has been, though I doubt they would say they "gave up on quality" completely. I said targeting a larger market was understandable, doesn't mean I think they did everything right, evidently they havn't!!
They were a big player in the UK at one point (up to 2010 maybe?), and I may be wrong but I think they had fallen well behind Mainline, Sticky and CC Moore (just examples of "big" companies with broadly equivalent quality baits) before thier recent growth period, lets say the Alan Blair years. I think their recent growth is in europe, less so in the UK, Alan says as much in his video.
They no doubt made other mistakes but for a start producing in the UK to sell in europe puts them at a disadvantage compared to local companies who are now well established as you say.
As for the "quality debate", I would have thought you would be the first to admit that there are other ways to dominate any water than putting in tens of kg of expensive 40% protein boilies, as long as you've got a decent hookbait! This is even more true in europe as you say, it's not that a high quality boilie would'nt work, it's just not cost effective if 90% of it is getting eaten by catfish, bream or even bloody turtles in my case! Also people in europe tend to session fish on a variety of waters rather than regularly fish one lake, so the advantage of a high quality boilie is also lessened.
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I think your find that a lot of the older bait company's that have been around for say 30 odd years. Don't hardly use social media at all. It's probably a combination of not really understanding how it works and just letting the baits quality do all the talking. Most are not trying to move mountains. Happy just to carry on as they always have. Quietly going about there business of putting smiles on Anglers faces.
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In reply to Post #51
Quote.... Yes that top level quality may (or maybe not, but thats another subject!) be important on the 10 % of "hardest" UK circuit waters, but the people fishing those waters have not been their target market for years, understandably as it is a tiny portion of the market when you look at europe as a whole.
Top level quality 'might' or 'might not' be important? Did you really just say that? Really? That's the type of attitude that would have seen them go under.
You speak like they are doing things correctly. They just went out of business if you did not notice. You speak of 'target' audiences.... They ONLY got to the size they did by dominating the top UK waters. Not Euro waters where you could often use anything and catch. The moment they were NEVER even being used anymore on the top waters in the UK.... It was because there were better alternatives. The best anglers find that out first. Eventually that filters down.
So you are pretty much saying they gave up on quality, to sell sub standard stuff on a large scale in Europe? Off the back of previous great products & former glories? From a time when they were consistently being used on the top waters in the UK, because they were among the best around. Because that is what made their name. Not what you are alluding to whatsoever!! That is exactly what has destroyed their name. If an angler is catching five times more on one bait, compared to their bait alongside it.... You expect said angler to continue purchasing what they sell? That is not the way things work at all. No amount of influencers or spin can change that. These are just the facts of life.
You honestly think that would last? The Europeans have their own bait companies now. The old days are long gone. They lost their footing in the UK market. According to you, intentionally.... Game over.
Edit... If the quality is not so important over there... Why you having our hook baits sent to France Sam? That is a contradiction in itself mate
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In reply to Post #52
Quote... I wonder if nash bait supporting so many "sponsored" anglers has become unsustainable. They go fishing and create content, etc, but not sure that translates into sales so much.
100% correct Dave.
The problem with all these big companies these days is they truly believe this is all that is needed for success. That's because in the old days of magazines it WAS. Control the media, control the sales. That's what they did.
The product quality became secondary to them all. They still believe that if they control the media & all the influencers, they will control the sales. But those days are long gone. The internet saw to that. Try as they might, they simply cannot keep a lid on the internet like they did with the magazines, and in reality a small bunch of influencers.
I have a game for you all to play.... Go to the larger, older bait companies social media.... Then start going through the posts. What you will actually find is, that 99.9% of what you will see, is ALL paid influencers. Even the ones you think are not. It's not really, 'real'. People woke up to it all.
If they put the investment into REAL quality products, instead of just relying on influencers to drag in people that young anglers aspire to be.... They would not be struggling. But the quality of product is long gone. When the quality of product is gone... The influencers are not worth a ****. Their target audience is the most fickle around. They will jump ship the moment a better offer comes along.
The bloke I mentioned below, was sent a van load of tackle, along with a plea to stop mentioning us at the same time. It did not work. Maybe if they just woke up to the fact that no amount of free Chinese tackle is going to stop a determined carp angler once he has an edge & has found products that blow their own free ones out of the water.... They would have chosen a different path. But they all just still assume that if they control the media, they control the sales.
Why do you lot HONESTLY believe these companies churn out free media, after free media, CONSTANTLY? Does anyone truly believe that it's for the good of yourselves? Or the good of angling? Of course it's not, it's for the good of themselves. They used to control Tim Paisley & the rest with a bit of advertising.... But they cannot control the internet. They can pump out as much free media as they want trying to portray an image. But the fact remains, anglers in the UK stopped using the gear donkeys years ago. Ever since, it's all just been media spin. This comes as a shock to all of you. Some can't believe that it's true. Of course it's true. Multi million pound companies do not fold for no reason.
Look what's going on with Ali now.... Offering kids & novices £100 vouchers for their catch reports Imagine the amount of bait they likely just sold.... Why are the UK catch reports not coming out of their earholes?
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In reply to Post #54
To be fair, Nashbait is under 10€/kg in France if you buy by 5kg.
Maybe it is more expensive in Germany / Austria, I don't know.
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In reply to Post #56
Gary bayes… Health complications and getting on a bit so took a back seat and was used more in a consultancy role I believe
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In reply to Post #1
Whatever happened to Gary Hayes he was the bait guru at nash
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It is a shame - it was a pretty big thing when Nashbait started and being the 'spawn' of Catchum they had some great recipes, like for many, Sting fish mix recipes pre and post Success pack, and Scopex Sq., Tangee Sq. along with many others.
I'd hope when they see the positive responses, let things settle a bit and have a rethink maybe bring back some other proven squid mixes and then sell boilies and jarred particles direct.
lets face it, most of Essex have been buying baits 'direct' for many years from a 'field tester' a field testers mate, or their gran thats got a spare chest freezer in the shed.
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In reply to Post #52
Nash were not getting the sales in the EU as they anticipated , reason being baits like the Key et al were far too expensive for their marketplace . Why would you buy a bait of inferior quality that is 15 euro a KG when you can buy a very good bait from a firm such as Boilie and more Wildon or Bait service Straubing for 9.99 Euro ?
Nash were far too expensive even before BREXIT.
However Nash do have a very good following in countries like Austria and Germany for their tackle , because all of the entry level carpers over there are Nash fan boys.
Fox made the right move in putting a distribution center in the EU quite a few years ago , and it's been a success . They don't obviously produce boilies but there are so many bait firms out there these days.
I do feel sadness that part of the carp fishing history is disappearing in Nashbait , but it's a natural progression to follow this more suitable business model. Remember Nash bought up the old Catchum company of Rods and picked up some great recipes and ingredients from that.
I purchased what I think we're two of the very first Nash products , the weigh sling/sack and the sleeping bag cover , the quality was great and it was all that was available in the early 80s, what I see from Nash these days is is not what I would say is Chinese tat , that some people describe it as but the quality is not there anymore , as an example I bought the titan globetrotter a few years back and the paint job and finishing on the metalwork was crapola.
What makes me wonder about Nash is Kevin Nash himself has made a video that is on Facebook where he states that he was nearly bankrupt at one point and considering winding Nash down as he could not compete any longer with the Chinese made tackle. He stated he had a change of philosophy and made high end bed chairs and bivvies in the UK , trying to provide high quality products to the masses , this he says turned the company around , only for him a few years later to start manufacturing those items in China.!!!!
I don't think we are hearing the whole truth from Alan Blair in his video , I think other factors are coming into play.
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In reply to Post #33
Quote.... Didn't John timmerman move to nash from cc Moore in the last year or so?
Poor John.
They were adding little side notes onto anglers yearly contracts just a couple months ago regarding us, telling their anglers that they were not allowed to mention using our hook baits anymore. Trying to cause problems. They did cause problems for a week or two... Until I saw what was going on.
I had to tell the lad in question, "No problem, you don't get our stuff anymore and nor do any of your pals". "Go use the stuff that you get for free, that you don't actually want to use". He instantly went back to mentioning us. A) because as he has some integrity & B) because he 100% did not want to lose his edge. But they put it right on him... I'd spent the last year mentioning their freezer bait when the lad caught. They had spent the last year trying to 'imply' to their clueless followers that he was having his amazing results with their bait on the rig....Because I have absolutely zero to hide. They did. They would have very happily destroyed the lads relationship with us just as they were about to go under. At least he was honest, others bow to their pressure with a van load of free kit, that you lot pay for ultimately.
Their media kids who exist solely for likes on socials, have shat on people for years for their likes. They will not get much sympathy from certain sectors. I hope every single one of the poor lads who work in the bait factory find new jobs soon. The people at the top will be just fine, those lads will not.
I've never publicised a single carp that I've caught in the last seven or eight years, not one single carp. Nothing. It does not happen anymore. Solely down to their media div & his all his media influencer pals (non Thames anglers) who blew the river Thames to absolute pieces, just for some extra Instagram likes. This memory popped up on my social media today. Irony.
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In reply to Post #51
I wonder if nash bait supporting so many "sponsored" anglers has become unsustainable.
They go fishing and create content, etc, but not sure that translates into sales so much.
They all drive around in deluxe vw transporters, have top end equipment chucked at them, user promotion, but ultimately it must be draining the bank account. Are the vans included?
No matter how great the video content was I'd never be happy to use their bait. Ultimately the quality of the bait has to be good or exceptional. Home rollers can make a better product, and quite a few established companies have overtaken nash for quite some time now.
I used to use some of their flavours back in the day, and they were great...
Red liver, salmon oil palatant, shellfish concentrate, etc. That was 30+ years ago.
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In reply to Post #13
It's a great shame. Whatever you might think of their current products or marketing, Nashbait is an historic brand that most older anglers will have used something from at some point and at the end of the day, people are losing jobs.
Most comments here and elsewhere seem very UK-focused in terms of what they should have done better. Yes that top level quality may (or maybe not, but thats another subject!) be important on the 10 % of "hardest" UK circuit waters, but the people fishing those waters have not been their target market for years, understandably as it is a tiny portion of the market when you look at europe as a whole.
Obviously the retail mark-ups are a problem (more so in the UK again), as are increasing raw materials costs, Mark from baitworks talks about it regularly on his podcast. However, you might be surprised to learn the prices of "decent" baits (say equivalent to Nash) in europe, even direct, its just not that cheap. To get the real cheap prices you would have to go to the big belgian outfits that sell proper old school "crap" 50/50 (or worse!) type baits. Also, distribution is no joke, it's one thing selling direct in the UK, but on the scale of europe it is not that easy. Of the bigger direct-selling UK firms DNA do it via germany, don't know how it's going but don't see anyone in France using it, and Baitworks have been looking at it for several years but don't seem to be able to have found a way to make it viable yet. Selling via retailers does help a lot logistically.
I don't they priced themselves out of the market, Mainline for example is much more expensive over here, but I don't know how much they sell. Given brexit, I think the mistake was setting up the new factory in the UK and not in europe, plus probably growing too fast with the difficulty that brings?
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I can see a lot of company's picking up and cashing in on there recipes now. A lot probably already have. Scopex squid was quite a unique and ground breaking recipe that's caught a he'll of a lot of fish for it to just disappear of the radar.
Someone like Jason Ryder from A baits. Who used to work for Nash bait could probably get it rolled as close to the recipe as anyone.
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In reply to Post #48
Yes Monster Squid was released, back in 2010 if I remember correctly?
It certainly was a good bait. I was using it when the water was too cold to use Fen Mix (dark), now that really was some exceptional bait.
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In reply to Post #46
Here's one I haven't seen mentioned yet. DJ's Monster Squid. Although I don't think it was ever released, if my memory serves me well, it was made by one of their rollers (DJ) & was a mix of both the Monster Pursuit & S Mix with if I remember correctly, a banana oil palatant & flavour? It did a lot of fish to those who were lucky enough to get it, so I never understood why they never released it???
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In reply to Post #37
Yep spot on. Boom time is over, people are getting sick of paying ridiculous prices now.
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In reply to Post #45
I wouldn't be surprised to see a new company emerge from the ashes in europe as nashbread,eu or sumfin, all the UK gear shipped out at a nominal cost (creative accounting).
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In reply to Post #44
Firstly its a massive shame to see them stop. I think it will return at some point in another guise but lets see what the future brings. I haven't used a lot of there bait over the years but it did catch me my first 40 many years ago.
Secondly i think its been on the cards for a long time, They segmented it away from the business and split into Nash Bait and Nash Tackle a few years ago... usually a sign that one is significantly stronger then the other. Then they went big on investment with the new kit, looking back most likely a push to drop fixed costs withing the manufacturing process to enable stronger margins. Then the product range has been all over the place for a good while with no consistent solid bait (scope squid was and is a great bait but was never a mainstay over the years). Then in the last few years a drastic reduction in the range a nod to what Alan said in terms of cutting overhead costs. The above coupled with inflation & competition would have been a big strain on cash flow.
What i did find notable in his speech was that he said ingredients were imported and that the vast majority of the bait was exported back to the EU, which in turn was adding loads of extra cost. Suggesting that the UK customer based has severely diminished, which for me means they have overlooked those who served them the most in the past (I know of several people who have bought and sold huge quantities from Gary & Nash who had the door shut in there face over recent years.)
All in all a shame, and i think its a wait and see what happens to the wider business now... there seems to have been a fair few who have left the tackle side in recent times , so hopefully they are lean enough to sustain the buisness
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What a shame, fished with nash bait quite a lot and they had some excellent baits. Weirdest i can remember was micro mass, still don't know what it was or how it was made.
My thoughts though, why not go direct? Yeah, i know the trade etc, but it would be the sensible thing to do, with a lot of extra customers especially if they could pull it off all over europe. It's still an extremely strong brand. Sad stuff.
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I was hoping for a return of The Key. Best bait I’ve used up until now.
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Alan Blair in his statement said Nash bait was just not profitable no more... I'm not so sure.. From what I mentioned in a previous is that they were experiencing some cash flow problems. Looks like a move to free up a bit of money to me.. but what do I know..
But like in any business when a company goes south.. its the employee's that suffer. Bye the sound of there set up they don't have a small workforce. Hopefully some can be relocated in other areas of the business. But if its a cost saving exercise there's going to be a lot of people out of work.. 
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Let’s just hope the boys and girls at the factory get new jobs soon whether in or out of the industry.
There are real families being affected by this news.
Unfortunately bait is a cut throat business in a race to the bottom.
People spend 1000£ on items of tackle ON the bank but only want to pay 4£ a kilo for something that does actually make a difference.(just generally not nash in particular)
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I'm sorry to see it go even if I haven't ever really used it other than the odd flavour and the white buckets of Euroboilies from the 90's, crikey did we get through some of that!!!
I watched a Nash vid a few months ago, a return somewhere a few days after filming, maybe horseshoe...in any case the bloke had it right off. I sat there totting up the bait value of his 48hr session and it was well over £100 (can't rem how much). My 1st reaction was who in their right mind would afford that (not could), but after a while I wondered what cost that equated to per fish, and was it so bad...hmm*
In any case the likes of DNA etc now sellling shelfies considerably cheaper can't have helped, perhaps Nash thought the brand was strong enough...who knows. If this will be a continued trend I wonder how Dynamite will get on, hopefully a lot better.
*I'm not insinuating just the bait caught the fish, good angling obv came into play.
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In reply to Post #38
Nash invested off the back of unsustainable Covid money, when every man and his dog bought a kilo of bait and called himself a carp angler.
Have a look at there 2023 accounts it’s makes terrible reading!
I really hope that cutting the bait arm off saves the business as they do make a great bivvy.
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In reply to Post #37
I was really surprised by this today as I know they had invested heavily in recent years.
I’m sure that all of the truth as to why it’s closing will all come out one day but it just shows you that bait making on an industrial scale is a gamble.
Nash once had the whole bait trade in its pocket. I always had a little insight into its workings and it blew me away how vast the whole set up was. They also had one or two incredible things in the range.
We as anglers are changing and how we shop is now changing bait companies fortunes.
There will always be people who rise and fall in the fishing world and tackle shops are falling fast!
One of my good mates has put his heart and soul into Nash and i hope that he starts again.
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In reply to Post #32
A lot of those businesses got greedy and are paying the price now. Not much sympathy here.
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Got a litre of scoped squid red liquid
Might hang onto it
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In reply to Post #29
Error from my side
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In reply to Post #32
If Nash have indeed got a state of the art production facility, perhaps it will be taken over by another firm. As for firms in the leisure industry in general going broke, it's hardly surprising given the state of the country and people generally getting poorer. There will always be a few rich people who can afford whatever they want. Most people have to prioritise their expenditure. I think angling in general will see a reduction in spending over the next few years.
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Didn't John timmerman move to nash from cc Moore in the last year or so?
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In reply to Post #26
I really hope not, but having had experience of similar professionally too many times over the years - it sure sounds like its cutting off the highly infected limb to save a body that is also struggling.
If Nash Tackle was healthy they may have kept the bait arm running even for sentimental reasons but at a loss and brought in some turn-around measures.
Real shame. Hope the rest of the business will be well.
Not just fishing, so many hobby/pastime/leisure industries are struggling and shops and brands closing every month.
unfortunately with the "hobby/pastime" boom that happened through covid and its recovery caused businesses to over-extend and assume that the boom was going to go on forever.
The cycling industry is shagged. All those bikes that were being bought during covid - shops and brands got order happy & committed to huge orders years in advance (not helped by the logistics issues and huge wait times) and now the leisure market demand has dropped off a cliff or industries have been saturated with over supply from newcomers - brands and shops are struggling to meet these commitments and are going under.
Several classic cycling brands have gone under the last few years. Massive shame for all involved.
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I caught my 1st French carp on a Nash scopex squid with livers
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In reply to Post #28
I never used their baits but I can't deny their place in the history of things
I've caught a lot of fish on the sting as well, just not their version of it
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End of the line for Nash Bait.. going to be a few anglers out there looking for new bait deals.. 
Going to go with Julian Cundiff back to Nutrabaits??
Alan Blair __________ ??
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In reply to Post #26
That's not good 
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| | | Belch | | Posts: 4217 |  | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #26
Anyone remember 'Formula 1' . . . . ? Absolutely vile smelling
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In reply to Post #1
Confirmed on Facebook this morning
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In reply to Post #23
I think some came from a small company in or around Bromley at some point, I also can't remember the name but want to say it started with a D but could be completely wrong. Not that it matters, he seems very happy with his current supplier (ABS) now any way.
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In reply to Post #21
At one time Jay was having his baits rolled by three different companies, one of which was Nash. In fact more than one of his baits were on Nash basemixes with his added extras.
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In reply to Post #21
I think jay done it for a while and then subbed it out to another company, It was a small company its bugging me of the name now.
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In reply to Post #21
They've done some absolute crackers over the years. Whiskey and monster pursuit, along with Jays strawberry were the best of the bunch.
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In reply to Post #20
I think Jays amber attract was still rolled by Nash. I had it years later (maybe 2008) and it came in Nash bags. At one point you could order a-bait full back catalogue for a minimum order..
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In reply to Post #15
I know Jason Rider done a version of the Amber Attract but then a external company was rolling it, im not sure if they still do it.
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In reply to Post #15
I remember using amber attractor with Scopex when it first came out….well over 30 years ago. A quality bait, I used to end up eating it myself it had so much biscuit meal in it!
Sting and success pack was another good one. Haven’t touched them for years tbh but they had a great range post Catchum.
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In reply to Post #15
The Sting was an absolute gamechanger for me. I only stopped using it when they changed the recipe.
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In reply to Post #7
They certainly did and it's a super efficient setup with virtually no waste.
I'm a bit baffled about the whole thing. Years ago you could ask them to make a tweaked or completely one off bait and, providing you were willing to buy a whole mix, they'd make it for you. In recent times they have been so busy making the standard baits (tonnes and tonnes) that they didn't have the capacity to make one offs. How does that business go bust? Bewildering!
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In reply to Post #15
To be fair, although Scopex Squid has had several slightly different versions, it is still a great bait and Gary himself still uses it on some decent waters. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't pay £14.99 for it, but I don't know many people in Essex who pay full price for bait from Nash or Mainline.
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In reply to Post #14
Amber Attract is the best bait of theirs I ever used by some way. The original ScopexSquid was excellent too. Why on earth they chose to end those is beyond me, just like you say.
Trouble for them is, when the original SS was launched they were the only firm selling a squid bait. When they did it this latest time, as mentioned in my last post, 597 other bait firms brought out the exact same bait, at the exact same time. All because Baracel launched a new squid liquid.
So instead of a great, unique bait like previously…. They are relying on fan boys wanting to be in the Nash gang to sell it with media. Not because it’s an exceptional unique bait. There’s no substance to that without the stand out product. Unfortunately that’s the world we live in now.
Gary Bayes was a bait making legend, who learned his trade in the Catchum shop under Rod Hutchinson. He also fished waters like Fen Drayton, he’s a truly great carp angler. Alan Blair & co are media lads, a little bit ‘urban’, listen to DnB & pump pump pump on socials constantly… Fish in Nash’s back garden. What do people really expect from that, great products?
Everyone seems to think that social media is the absolute be all & end all these days regarding selling stuff in carp fishing. Absolute balls is it though. The quality of product is still the most important thing, bar none. No product… No long term future. No matter how much free media they push out to sell the stuff. Yeah you will pull the wool over noddies eyes for a while, basking on former glories… But there’s zero long term future in it without the actual great product. It’s sad that these great companies who gave so much to carp fishing even went that way in the first place IMO. Style over substance with a bucket hat & some olive Nike trainers. Kevin Nash went to the absolute top of the carp fishing tree in the trade, with outstanding unique products designed by himself when he was younger, with Gary Bayes doing the bait. Top notch stuff back in the day. Not free media.
I sound like a right miserable old ‘see you next Tuesday’. 😂
Kevin Nash came up with so much tackle wise, the lead clip being the absolute greatest of them all. Hopefully that tackle side will still flourish for him going forwards.
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Nash isn't consistent enough with the bait range.
There's too much discontinuation
Nash Whisky and Amber Attract were my all time favourites.
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In reply to Post #9
Quote.... The fishing trade is in a dire state. Not just Nash, the big boys are all having issues at the moment. Regarding the bait, I don’t know anybody who uses it and haven’t for years.
I mentioned this on here recently. Some of the older major brands don't get used on the elite waters in the UK anymore & have not done for years in reality.... UNLESS the angler concerned is being paid. What does that say?
Yet in the internet world it is easy to deceive carp anglers into thinking differently by bombarding social media with paid influencers, to make you all think differently. Every single day I read online comments from anglers who barely even go fishing proclaiming this and that about certain large companies. It's all absolute rubbish. If these anglers were actually fishing any of the top waters they would see with their own eyes EXACTLY what you have said mate. You don't actually know anyone who has used the bait for years.
Let’s have it right.... What sensible angler in their right mind is going to pay £14 for a KG of this gear.... When they can go to Geoff, or BaitWorks, or DNA etc etc & get FAR better bait for a fraction of the price? The answer is the fanboys mentioned above who live in a world of sheer & utter ass kissing make believe & want to be in the Nash gang. They are still market leaders on many items of tackle though, so it kind of makes perfect sense. That's where they excel these days.
When Gary Bayes retired, that was the end of that regarding bait.
Baracel bring out a new squid liquid.... Five minutes later 597 different bait companies in the UK are bringing out a new squid bait. It's all got pretty tragic.
You are also correct in the fact that a lot of the industry, especially bait, is really struggling. There are simply far to many bait companies now is why. Lots of them need to disappear, & they will.... That's what is happening now. I feel incredibly lucky, also massively humbled that we are growing faster than at any point in our existence. We just sold two months worth of stock (2024 rates), in less than a week. That's not including tackle shop sales, who can't keep the stuff on the shelves for more than five minutes. We simply cannot make the stuff fast enough currently. So it's not all doom & gloom.
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In reply to Post #11
With it's own Heli pad, I presume..
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In reply to Post #7
More.like a new house for kev, which looks like something out of thunderbirds.
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I think Nash have totally lost their way with their marketing for about the last 18 months/2 years. It's as though they don't know where they fit anymore.
Their stand at the Big One was the biggest at the show, and in the middle - would've cost big big money.
However it was kind of like going to a gallery. Stuff in picture frames, beautifully laid out but totally missing the market. Terrible clothing too.
And for me, a lot of kit I would not ever buy - style over substance.
They've recently launched their new series of the podcast - dire.
Love or hate Urban Banx - they had it right for the majority of their target market. I wonder if Alan Blair is less involved in their creative direction.
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In reply to Post #8
The fishing trade is in a dire state. Not just Nash, the big boys are all having issues at the moment. Regarding the bait, I don’t know anybody who uses it and haven’t for years.
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Had heard the bait side of things was up for sale??
I have also heard. ( overheard conversation in a local tackleshop ) that they were also experiencing cash flow problems. Stock being held up in port etc.. how true any of this is will remain to be seen.. 
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Didn’t they just spend a bag of cash building a new bait factory on site?
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In reply to Post #5
Some gear yeah. But the bushwhacker pole is one of them and I can't see that being discontinued
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In reply to Post #4
also some of their stuff has been out of stock for a year or more now which is a sign of a struggling company
That will also depend on if it’s being phased out and replaced by something else
As it would make sense for it to be out of stock.
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In reply to Post #1
It's been going round for a couple of years now that Nash are on the brink of going pop. But they are still releasing new kit which would be an odd move. But also some of their stuff has been out of stock for a year or more now which is a sign of a struggling company
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In reply to Post #1
I would think most of them are struggling
But probably more likely going back to pre covid levels of due to cost of living
So massive downturns in business
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Quite surprising given the relatively recent launch of Shrimp.
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to cease trading apparently...
Quite surprised although to be honest back in the day they rolled some awesome bait, (Sting, Whiskey etc).
I had heard from someone in the trade that Nash were struggling as a whole, (could be BS of course) so maybe this part of the business has had to go?
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