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In reply to Post #77
If you're removing eggs from your liquid mix just add around 10g of whole egg powder ( or a little less of egg white powder ) for each egg removed. This will compensate for any reduction in binding / gelling. I now actually only use powdered egg now as it enables me to incorporate various wet foods into my mix. Mussels, prawns, fish, liver etc. The world's your oyster ( they might be a bit pricey though ! )
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In reply to Post #77
Quite old school and many say it works well doing this. Never tried it myself but give it a go. I think the trop will bind/roll/boil OK with around 100ml of that in it.
One thing to consider is they will go off quite quickly with real squid liquid in them. Nothing a freezer can't fix but don't expect them to last much more than a couple of days out the freezer based on what other have said before.
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In reply to Post #76
Thinking about adding some liquidised squid into my mix and dropping all the other liquids apart from salmon oil and a very low level flavour.
I was planning to wizz a couple of squid up and subtract the same amount from my egg? Does this sound ok? Probably 100mls which should still give me 6 eggs in the mix, will that be enough to bind it?
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In reply to Post #73
brand new bottle going straight in bin
Don't do that, sell it - and put the money towards your next Trop base mix order.
JB'S ALA SALAR is TOOO Good to bin  for those of us that like to roll it
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In reply to Post #74
Best flavour combo I’ve ever used bar none
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In reply to Post #73
I had amazing success on the trop with ala salar and plum from JB. Still the flavour combo I go back to. I wouldn't chuck it. Just mix it outside 
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Yeah mate i rooled the trop base mix few weeks back with john bakers plum and ala solar and opti baits blackcurent , came out nice redish and in chest freezer now ,
Still got a few kg base left will make some more in few weeks with out bakers ala solar tho as that stinks so so so bad , brand new bottle going straight in bin ,
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In reply to Post #57
Have you rolled it yet?
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In reply to Post #69
You can also list anything below 2% as a processing aid. Regardless of if it is or not from memory.
Labelling regulations is a minefield and something which most of the larger companies in world which it affect will have dedicated teams/ people working on.
As per AA baits - I believe that its the same base mix as BAF did for trop - they took on the reigns for it once BAF went wholesale at the request of some customers who still wanted to buy the mix. I have not used it for clarity.
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In reply to Post #68
Still doesn't give away the recipe especially with things like 'fish derivatives ' which is deliberately vague.
From what has been said here the AA trop mix is very close to the original but would be good to now what they have added to improve the mix. Doubt it would cost them any sales, in fact it would be great marketing!
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In reply to Post #67
They must label according to inclusion rate…
So it contains more propylene glycol than CSL and yeast…
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In reply to Post #66
A list of ingredients is fine, but the percentage content is the crucial thing.
It's ok to say "liver powder" for example, but is it a pinch, an ounce, a kilo...
Too easy to include all the sexy stuff on yout ingredients list, but be very economical with the amount.
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In reply to Post #65
All bait company need to share the ingredients of there products, regardless of import or local produced baits.
The list of ingredients has to be listed from highest to lowest concentration as well.
For example: ccmoore lists the following ingredients for https://imagefa.st/image/cm5k
So, you need to have some basis to understand what they are doing… but other firms are more open on the label
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In reply to Post #60
Sharing ideas and recipes (like open source software) is what the HMBB group on Facebook did to produce the original recipe. I suspect you are right though that 99% of carp anglers would not share this but the 1% did to start off with. AA baits would join this top 1% if they id likewise and listed the full recipe. I haven't a clue if they are on the HMBB group or not, probably not as they try to keep commercial accounts out.
Most bait or base mixes in the UK do not list the ingredients. They probably should but this is just not policed and trading standards who would do this have other issues to worry about that are much more important than a bit of fishing bait. Other than at import stage is this enforce in the EU?
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In reply to Post #56
Didn't mean to tar you with the same brush Smurf 
I was thinking/meaning the ready blended base mix commercial sellers. If someone is going to the trouble of rolling their own bait they mostly likely lean towards knowing and caring what's in there and are going to that trouble in order to have a better bait at the end of it.
The AA thing - overall they feel like they are well meaning. I would be surprised if there was a sinister motive for not putting the HMBB link on there.... but if advertising a similar base mix on name recognition then an acknowledgement might be fair thing to do.
I was curious around the inclusion levels as there are quite a few extra higher value ingredients different from the original recipe. Calcium caseinate, liver, glm, keramine. Its not a million miles away from something I've been trying this year and significantly cheaper at the larger volumes (inclusion levels dependent)
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In reply to Post #62
I,m really trying to cover the entire commercial bait industry across Europe with that statement. Perhaps i should have been more specific in my last post. AA baits are a very good company as are BAF, yet we must not lose sight of the fact that it is a business based on profit, ultimately. We all would love to champion these companies and put our utmost faith in them. However, take a look back at some of the posts and comments over the past few years with people stating that certain basemixes, baits etc seem to have changed, albeit sometimes for legitimate reasons, ie, the inability to source certain ingredients/attractors, Yet ask the question and the company replies that nothing has changed.
I guess at the end of the day,when we have no influence in the outcome, we have the choice to trust and accept, or make our own! Some, simply do not have that choice I guess, if the time rolling, impacts significantly on their bank hours.
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In reply to Post #61
I don’t think AA would risk their reputation by diluting or cutting anything they sold. They are one of the most respected ingredients suppliers there is and with BAF exiting the home roller market, why would they risk their business when it’s probably growing nicely.
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In reply to Post #60
Useful, However, is there any governing body that checks the contents?
Lets be honest, if unchecked, they could pretty much say that these baits contain whatever they choose to list and only a very well trained eye and nose would know of a certain ingredients inclusion......
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In reply to Post #59
Programmers and carp anglers have different mentalities.
Don’t know if this will work out.
Nevertheless, in EU the ingredients should be listed on every bag of bait sold.
Is this similar in the UK?
At least you know what is in it 😉
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In reply to Post #57
I think they should list the exact recipe to at least respect the original group. Like open source software any tweaks are shared for the community to use. People can then buy with better confidence they are getting what they think they are getting.
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In reply to Post #50
This is a bit cheeky from AA in my opinion, i thought they were above that.
The Trop was never meant to be commercially available, only later did the originators of the mix give permission for BAF to mix it and sell it. It seems Quality baits and now AA have jumped on others work and the trops reputation for their own financial gain.
I appreciate the recipe was put out there so some may say fair game. But still doesnt sit right with me, especially AA, where they are using the name but the recipe isn’t even the same
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Hi its the same with bit more .
I got fed up with no responce from 3 emails from quality baits back in aug when i asked hear .
Still no replys ,
So i emailed aa baits myself with the resipe from the og group and asked if they could knocl it up for me but with the paprika and spice added ,
Danny from aa baits has been emailing me since and has knock up a test batch his self for sale to see how it goes, i recived my batch 3 weeks back .
It has it all in same percentages with there added feed stim and somthing els.
No tropical flaver tho as i be using john bakers flavers.
They will also be bringing a nut version danny tellts me
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In reply to Post #54
As its based on a published recipe then I think giving the details on it could only help sales and give people a little more confidence in what they are ordering.
They wouldn't be the first...I gave the recipe for one of my baits that I used to sell many years ago...its still published on here as BM1 mix and I added (from memory) MSG, betaine and GLM to the final bait I sold plus a flavour that was made for me by the late Bob Campbell
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In reply to Post #50
Don't think you do with many companies, even then it comes down to trust & could possibly be who made that batch on said day. No different from buying readymade bait.
AA Baits would seem like a decent outfit, I haven't heard of many negatives though I must say I haven't been looking but this forum is helpful with good / bad reviews.
Only way sometimes is to give it a whirl or the HNV fishmeal, am sure they would catch plenty if used well. My old basic 60/40 or 50/50 birdseed & fishmeal mixes caught loads and these have got far more going on.
Think we carpers definitely have a wobble regarding bait, I still do!
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In reply to Post #53
Secret Sauce 
if its a decent inclusion rate, their sales may go up by being more transparent. It would also be a first in the industry - no one does that.
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In reply to Post #50
If you were them would you give away the mix formulation...I wouldn't.
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In reply to Post #50
I’ve asked but no reply as yet
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In reply to Post #49
AA 's Tropmix reads well ,but you do not know the inclusion rates of any ingredient , in the mix.
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In reply to Post #34
https://aabaits.co.uk/product/spicy-tropaminamino-fishmeal/
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For anyone interested, I’ve just noticed that AA Baits now offer a new basemix called “Spicy Tropaminamino Fishmeal Basemix”. Not sure how close this is to the mix you’re all discussing in this thread, but may be worth a look?
It retails for £30 near as dammit for 5kg and £96 odd for 20kg. Also available in higher quantities for bigger discounts.
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In reply to Post #45
What type of fermentation are you referring to ? If it's using lactobacillus, then there is definitely hydrolysis taking place. Many strains produce proteases which under optimum conditions will break down proteins albeit at a slower rate than if neat enzymes are used.
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In reply to Post #44
Group
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In reply to Post #44
The group. Stephen was the soul behind it, and since he passed it has certainly not been as interesting. But there is still a lot of good information on there, as long as you get get through the rubbish with people claiming they are making hydro's, which in reality are fermentations.
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In reply to Post #42
Is that the group or the bait?
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In reply to Post #41
It’s not what it used to be now unfortunately anyway since the main man passed away
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In reply to Post #40
Yeah I will….i went through all my rolling stuff and I literally have everything extra that’s in the HMBB’s recipe.
I’ve tried to join HMBB on FB 3 times now with no joy so I’ll take that as a sign
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In reply to Post #39
Let us know how you get on with it 
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In reply to Post #38
I’ve ordered 5kg from Quality baits so I’ll give it a roll and see how it comes out
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In reply to Post #37
With the Trop you have a declared list of ingredients with the inclusion quantity, you do not with the other base mixes you buy.
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In reply to Post #36
How does the Trop compare to the AA baits HNV fishmeal?
I wouldn’t mind giving one or both a try.
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In reply to Post #34
" Aa bait need get this mix on there website with all the extra goodies needed"
All you need is the base mix with or without the spice ,better with the spice and Qualitybait's Squid flavour and you will have an exceptional bait , the rest of the bits are not really necessary, just adds disproportionately to the cost of the bait.
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In reply to Post #34
as BAF do not put Krill in the mix they make its a 100 % better and on top of that their Krill does not cause the bait to float, which is possibly why BAF don't ,put it in.
Qualitybaits has been going for over 30 years , the mix is the exact original Mix.
I would suggest you contact through the site on Spotify if you want to know anything.
I am sure they can add the spice if you want.
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Has anyone orderd this lately ,
And how dose there krill etc in the mix match up to baf one , is it a decent or cheap mix ,
Iv been waiting to place a order but smallest they do is 5k base mix now and not sure of there standerd.. pluss iv emailed them 2 times now and still no reply 3 weeks later so bit gun shy on placing order ...
Aa baita need get this mix on there website with all the extra goodies needed
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In reply to Post #31
Honey or Molasses are great sweeteners - I've used them both in Trop and they've worked well
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In reply to Post #31
I prefer the anhydrous betaine.
Nhdc is a great sweetener, but combining 2 sweeteners will carry the sweet taste much further.
So, combine both I would say
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Iv emailed them last week to see if spice and Paprika included
No reply yet week later ,
So iv added Paprika and Betaine and few other bits to aa baits list ,
Whats the best Betaine hcl or Anhydrous
And whats a good alternative to BAF B sweetener
Aa baits do Creamy B+ and NHDC sweetener not sure if these will work or not
The fruit part think i go with john bakers plum and maybe ala solar
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In reply to Post #29
ah ok , no worries , will do
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In reply to Post #28
It’s not the BAF recipe, it’s the HMBB recipe.
Let me know how it rolls please
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In reply to Post #27
not yet no , life keeps getting in the way , glad really as would like to add the spices & betaine as per the baf recipe , have those bits in basket with aa baits
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In reply to Post #26
Have you tried rolling it yet.?
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In reply to Post #25
thought so , tried a little bit , no hint of spice at all ,getting the fishmeals though
asked the wife for a second opinion ,got declined
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In reply to Post #24
Last time I ordered some from them they hadn't - it was just the ingredients in the top half of the list
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In reply to Post #23
Ive have asked them to let you know
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In reply to Post #22
do you know if quality baits have added the paprika & chilli ? not listed in their ingredient list ,but dont want to add twice
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In reply to Post #17
Its the base mix that counts ,which is good , all it needs is rolling with or without a flavour and the other bits ,the best probably being the Paprika and the Chilli powder ,
As Dickweed says Garlic and Fenugreek is all it needs.
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In reply to Post #18
They were the liquids used in the original mix.
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In reply to Post #19
From memory you could buy it with or without liquids at some point.
I bought 10kg and it came with liquids... not sure if it was all them ones or not. All from BAF
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When I was purchasing 10 kg of Tropamino I didn’t recall it coming with liquids included.
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In reply to Post #17
If you didn't add the stuff in the second list it wouldn't be the Tropamino would it? 
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If I was to use Tropamino again I would certainly buy the individual ingredients and put together myself.
Base mix plus garlic and fenugreek added at low levels. None of the other stuff in the second list.
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TROPAMINO, HMBB Group Bait, created 18/03/18
200 LT94
200 CLO
100 PDFM
100 Krill
50g WPC
50g Acid Casein
50g Rennet Casein
100 Semo
100 Full fat soya
50 Brocacel
Liquids Spice etc
20ml Salmon oil
40 ml Krill Hydro
40ml Liver Hydro
2 ml BAF Tropical fruit flavour
3ml BAF B sweetener
15g Chilli powder
15g Paprika
7g Betaine
8 small eggs
At 18mm 2 min boil
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In reply to Post #12
So what you are saying is if you want Tropamino go buy AA baits HNV then add to it and you will have something like it ,with no real idea the quantities of each ingredient included, I am sure this is a very satisfactory base mix, but not fulfilling the aim of the original concept where a base mix was put together by a group of anglers/bait makers so they knew chapter and verse, exactly what they were using.
Alternatively you can get the actual base mix ,which includes Krill meal ,made to the actual recipe that was posted on this forum some years ago , by Baitman from Qualitybaits using TOP Quality Krill meal which when mixed with eggs and a flavour then rolled and boiled without delay ,dose not float.
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If you’re worried. Add 50g per kg if limestone flour into the mix. They fly out with a stick then
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In reply to Post #12
There is always the possibility of floaters when using crustacean meals. It's probably an inconsistent product with some batches probably containing a greater proportion of buoyant shell meal. I found this out when I unwittingly substituted 6% of shrimp hydro powder with the same weight of shrimpshell powder. I knew something was amiss as soon I dropped them into the boiler and they instantly floated ! Managed to salvage the situation by freezing the dough and then later mixing it into a much heavier mix. It was a 5 KG mix, the ducks would have loved me 😂
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Had the same problem as Dickweed with the BAF Krill - you can have a look at the AA Baits HNV basemix, not identical but close and you need to add a few bits, for which they give you some suggestions
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In reply to Post #10
Cheers I have dabbled with trop in the past but don’t have the means to roll it anymore unfortunately and rolling companies seem to be a thing of the past now
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In reply to Post #9
You would have to ask Simon if he will do it ,
Main problem will be the amount you want doing I would think ?
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In reply to Post #7
Do quality baits sell this rolled at all?
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Last two batches I had for BAF floated. This was over two years ago. Quality baits stuff worked well.
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In reply to Post #6
just looked at the BAF site and it looks as though they are no longer selling the original recipe as they do not state Krill in the list of ingredients ,Krill being one of the most attractive ingredients you wonder what they have replaced it with and have to question is it Tropamino? So it appears that Qualitybaits is the place to go to if you want the Original base mix.
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In reply to Post #5
great , thanks for info ,
was aware of their patshull park mix but didnt realise they did a version of the trop
have ordered 5kg to give it a try , good price too
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In reply to Post #3
look at Krillamino at Qualitybaits ,same mix the Bait Buffs had a spaz attack when they made it.
but it was freely listed so have a look.
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In reply to Post #3
I’m not sure mate I stopped rolling once they went to commercial only so never looked.
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hi spike thanks for reply , yes am very happy with results on it so far , due to limited fishing time and mixes having a best before date was happier buying the 10 kilo bag that they did ,now have to buy 25k ,thats if i can get a trade account ( anyone applied for one ,are there any restictions/minimum orders? )
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In reply to Post #1
Because of the bulk they get it in at you’ll never compete getting 5-25kg bags.
The mix itself is very good.
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hi all ,
have had some good results and have enjoyed rolling my own baits with the mix from baf , now theyve geared themselves more to trade customers/larger amounts i thought id try to make up the basemix myself, but using the recipe that was posted on here a while back im. finding that works out a bit expensive , buying from aa baits the individual ingredients are working out nearly twice as much (depending on amount purchased ) . how can that be , is it just economies of scale or am i missing something ?
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