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In reply to Post #147
One take I have from this thread is that at least we are all still passionate about what is effectively a nerds hobby; no need for b*tching / point scoring though - life is def too short! We impale steel into cold blooded creatures for fun, spending ridiculous amounts of money and time to do so; feel satisfied that we ALL have this in common . . . peace out 
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In reply to Post #141
I'm glad you have noticed ,because it's not the first time Jamie has done this to other members, your right to call that out ,because recently some one on here did just that about bait ,he could not handle it .
And he got personal..
So well done on noticing ,personally Jamie should be permanently banned ,removed from this forum ,especially in the light of how he treated another member,if I was a mod ,he'd be long gone ..
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In reply to Post #137
I'm entitled to give my opinion on baitboats ,I've given my opinion ,some don't like it fine ,some agree ,also fine ...
However Jamie ,doesn't have the ability to understand context of the conversation ,so what happens then is he starts back tracking ,bringing up stuff,virtually anything he can think of ,if that doesn't work ...then he turns to plan b ..,thus plan b often resorts to.saying very little about the original OPs thread ..
Well Jamie I have news for you ....I can take it and give it ..
And I'll say it once more I really don't think you understand the basics of angling you over complicate everything in your replies ,do you actually even go fishing ?
And I'm quite happy to say ,once again bait boats are cheating ..,that's my opinion ..
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Imagine gatekeeping angling. Can't you just let people enjoy themselves without trying to diminish their pleasure by 'discrediting' captures. I imagine the vast majority of bait boat anglers really couldn't care less whether you think their achievements matter or not, and that's coming from someone who's never owned one.
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In reply to Post #142
Horses for courses. If they are allowed they are allowed. Down to the angler if they want to use one or not then  
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In reply to Post #141
LOL - says the guy bringing up my previous comments from over 10 years ago & from 3 different websites??? you absolute looper
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In reply to Post #136
Scruffy **** in a beanie catching a 50lb stock fish from under the rod tips has no merit in my eyes let alone caught with a BB 
I’ve never used one but Im in the market for one for reasons personal to me. I’ve never had anything against them just the user if they are a ****
If TH caught the Burghfield common using a bait boat would I say that capture deserves nothing because of the BB, no because he comes across as a general nice guy who lives and breathes angling.
When some muppet is boating across my swim I have issue with the user same if they were casting over my lines.
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In reply to Post #140
You're not interesting enough to stalk, I just call out BS when I see it. Your bias against another forum member is palpable, don't try to brush it off. Selman rubbished MG on fishing magic, as did yourself. The site owners disagreed with the doubters, they got copies of the letters as well.
Crack on.
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In reply to Post #139
wowsers - proper stalker action going on here.
shouting at clouds is an old meme from the simpsons mate. look it up - it was a joke
re particles - I assume you are referring to posts in this thread? https://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=444802
Not sure how my posts are 'smug' as you put it & there is nothing in there taken from the Bait Tactics videos. I have even posted recently about how good the channel is (and the music)
I've been preparing my own for over a decade now & have been trying all sorts of methods to improve them - way before those videos were created & have commented on this in many places including here, FB groups & on a couple of video calls. I have never been able to control the actual ferment based on the different smells that the particles have created & I plan to try EM1 which I will prepare as suggested by bait tactics to control it this year as well as some other things (bee food probiotic blends, bird seed hydro's & others). I have been attempting bacterial blends for a couple of years & have videos & pictures for proof of my journey way before any bait tactics videos. If I have said any different then please lmk know - I am pretty sure that I have always credited others for methods that I have used including Mark C's garlic hemp which is the gold standard of bait as far as I am concerned - even if it did bring me out in a rash when I spilt it on my arm. I've not watched all of the bait tactics video's but I am not sure he has ever actually talked about fermenting particles? He has posted on creating EM1, CSL & using them to create Hydro's but never anything on particles?
re martin gay - publicly berated? you're talking absolute rubbish pal & quite clearly 'forget'
I posted about a conversation I had with one of his relatives on a post on Cemex which by complete coincidence was started by the same guy that started this one (I don't forget either) Not once did I berate him - I repeated a story that was told to me.
I was quite clear it was an addition to the legend & that we will never truly know. He was an angling hero of mine as a kid & I never once actually said anything negative about him & never expected it to blow up like it did. My words were twisted by Paul Selman on the fishingmagic forum a few years later & I replied on there to set the record straight. That didn't seem to be enough for certain members who went all out to 'prove me wrong' & after further discussions with the family, including his widow Yvonne, we agreed to remove my comments & I have never written anything about it again & I never will. I am still friends with them now & saw one of them yesterday - I will tell them about this post as they will find it amusing.
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In reply to Post #137
"I hope nobody who has caught the fish of their dreams using a bait boat & following rules has read your comments in this thread & now thinks less of their captures because that would be a real shame"
If anybody does think that then their evaluation is as meaningless as their fortitude.
You called Wandle out on another post, telling him to go shout at clouds or whatever, you're making a personal dig at the individual rather than a groups actions.
Reflect perhaps ?
By the by, you made what I perceived (opinion) to be a smug statement on how well you prepare your particles when in reality, you copied a method used by a South African YouTube channel, posting there as "Toronto-Jamie." I presume that's you ? If not, I retract the statement but I think I'm correct here.
PPS: I've read Martin Gays letters to Ritchie and I am in no doubt to their veracity, another person who you publicly berated on another forum because you know best. Apparently.
The internet doesn't forget, and neither do I.
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In reply to Post #130
Ian - read it back - it was a direct quote from his post
I agree that it means absolutely nothing, but he's trying to give validation to his opinion - I included it as a satirical dig to show how ridiculous it is.
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In reply to Post #133
sure you helped me out by passing my email address onto Ken when I wanted to contact him - I thanked you at the time as did Ken who told you it made his week.
I couldn't give a hoot about your opinion of me - it means nothing coming from someone who has posted to belittle other forum members by calling them cheats & negating their
achievements - something I have NEVER done.
I'm just someone who loves fishing for carp. learning new things with an open mind & sharing things that I have learnt to help others whenever I can - I have done so since carp fishing forums were invented. However, I'll call people out on bull**** - always have done, always will. I see through your whinging, negativity & boring irrelevant anecdotes with self-sense of authority because you've been around the block - giving it the big "I am" - it's sad & pathetic. If you're gonna judge others then expect to be judged back. If you can't take it, don't give it.
I hope nobody who has caught the fish of their dreams using a bait boat & following rules has read your comments in this thread & now thinks less of their captures because that would be a real shame 
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In reply to Post #135
Merit
And based on the history of the pastime where we pursed big old carp that had survived the test of time to become king on the pond.
Compared to some scuffy **** in a beanie hat with a 50lb stock fish in his arms caught from 160 yds with a bait boat, sonar and camera. Where is the merit in that, or is it more for "likes"
Like already mentioned, fishing is many things to different people but if you start looking for merit, be prepared, not everyone thinks the same 
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Firstly merit - a lot of people need to understand the actual noun - it is to deserve praise or reward - so for all the bait boat users that don’t fish for likes, don’t care what others think, merit is not something you should look for.
The best way for me to sim it up is if someone did a newbie tutorial on lets say a 10 acre lake with the longest cast 120 yards
Considerations for a newbie with no boat if they were being taught for the very first time.
Where will the fish be?
Where are the features within that area?
How can I apply my bait at the range I want to fish?
I wonder if the fish up up in the layers?
How thick is the weed and are there any clear spots?
How close can I get to the canopy and feather down the line?
What rig can I use and what part will anti tangle play in my thinking?
How do i cast long distances or accurately?
What lead size should I use and can I use on my tackle?
Add a bait boat - and all the above takes mins and hours instead of years. That to me is why I don’t like them, because what they bring is far more than the sheer effort and learned over 50 years an angler - jealousy no - merit worthy - no.
The above is obviously not what the pro boat users do and most have served the same apprenticeship BUT hopefully shows that they are the single buy able short cut OR they do things you simply can’t do traditionally. They are not like distance sticks, alarms or row boats. They are short cuts or unfair advantage or as I used on holiday an absolute lazy short cut.
Merit is a emotion bestowed on people and everyone will decide what merit they seek and the worthiness of that - your hobby - your rules.
The only reason I am slightly invested in this discussion (are they now the norm) is that YES unfortunately they are. If they are allowed on waters I fish, that impacts my fishing and my results - externally when I may show a photo of a fish that I am particularly proud of that may have taken years to catch - I really don’t want the response to be ‘do you use those remote boats that I’ve seen’ —- that’s just me. No hate - just sadness that you can never put the genie back in the bottle and now we have drones - for the purpose of this thread I assume all pro bait boats are pro drones, same, same but different.
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In reply to Post #133
I wouldn't waste your time Adam, as it usually does other anglers who know nothing about you or your angling or opinions come up with their own formed opinions that mean nowt.
I'm 54 now and someone who started fishing in the late 70's taught by my dad float and ledger fishing on rivers and lakes for all species then specifically carp fishing from the mid 90's having spent around near 30 years angling and learning the craft and skills of angling before buying a bait boat circa 2005 which hasn't got GPS or an Echosounder on it just specifically only used for my Foreign holidays to which I mentioned in this thread earlier the captures carry little to no merit to have someone comment "perhaps get a better angler than myself to catch a carp so I can have my photo with it"
Pay no attention to it I'm old and ugly enough and know different.
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In reply to Post #128
@jamienowhere...I helped you out back along ,I didn't have to ,you seem to have easily forgotten that ..
To be honest I don't even know if you actually know what your talking about half the time ,you come across as a know it all,but actually know very little at all,no wonder you are disliked on here,your what's known as a SHEEP ..I can now see why you got torn another hole in your bottom ,by someone who has caught lots of fish on various venues,using their own hookbaits ..a lot on here know that ,and have not forgotten it..
I speak my PERSONAL TRUTH, not others opinions ,that's the difference ,its called opinions ,so therefore the little personal unwarranted dig you have had at me actually shows who and what you are ....a poor specimen of angler ,with little or no actual knowledge...if you had purple hair ,I'd understand it ,actually you are the forum punisher to be honest..
What a wannabe An'gof...
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In reply to Post #1
They have become the norm but they will never be accepted!
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In reply to Post #130
To say it’s cheating if a set of rules allow it is waffle. Are you acting dishonest to yourself if you use one oh behave
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In reply to Post #128
…and I’m sure others echo my sentiments, but are too shy to say on here…
Too embarrassed you mean
Wandle is spot on imo.
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If people read through this thread it’s crystal clear, there is a distinct advantage over other anglers by using a bait boat. I don’t think money even comes into it, it does not for me, it’s the principle of things, I do t believe in them, never mind sonar, cameras and now drones!
As usual though there is also a flip side, knob heads driving them all over the place which only fuels the argument 
If people want to use them that’s fine by me, their choice. The good news a lot of lake owners don’t like them so this controls the use in some places and levels the playing field. I guess primarily because of knob heads or their dislike of the method
To be fair I can handle a boat boat user anyday over some mong who ain’t got a clue what they are doing, spodding the granny art of it and killing the fishing
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In reply to Post #126
.but if you've read what I have tried to convey, just remember you've cheated yourself ,inside
What a load of old twaddle.
All Ive taken from your posts is that you’re a myopic, sanctimonious punisher who seems to want to take joy, happiness & a sense of achievement away from other anglers which is extremely sad.
…and I’m sure others echo my sentiments, but are too shy to say on here…
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In reply to Post #126
I respect your perspective as well. From what I've read on here about your approach to angling, using a bait boat would be very out of place.
Personally, I rarely use a bait boat. I don't think any of my clubs even permit them (though I’ve never actually checked). My syndicates certainly don't allow them.
That said, I do find them useful in specific situations—like when fishing at a lake on a one-off trip (e.g., a French trip). In those instances, I’d prefer to quietly get a general sense of the lakebed and weed situation in about 30 minutes, rather than spending half a day heavily disturbing the water and potentially scaring fish away from the area.
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In reply to Post #125
A'right Karlos, you make a lot of good points,fair enough to your self and anyone else and I respect your opinion and would you believe others as well..
And I'm sure others echo my sentiments ,but are too shy to say on here,but some things in life ,in this great hobby of ours is black and white ,there are no half measures with this from my point of view ..certainly I don't look at others ,who use a BB ,a c u nex fursday ,I do however feel ,still, that their captures are without merit ,and if they are fortunate to hook and land a specific, sought after carp and then publicise that capture ,than it should also be mentioned the capture happened because of a electronic bait placement device ,with ,in many cases advanced tech ...
In life ,in some things there is right and wrong ,good and bad ,there is no doubt or question on that score ,I'm talking about boundaries...in life here ..
Bait boats to me ,blur those boundaries in angling terms ,it over steps the mark in skill ,merit and to some people ,including my self ,nullifies that capture..
Those who don't agree with me ,that's fine ,crack on...but if you've read what I have tried to convey, just remember you've cheated yourself ,inside..and it's up to you to square that up with your own angling mindset ..
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In reply to Post #124
@wandle1: I wasn't sure if Dave was an example name or real, and the fact he's real and was a great caster makes no difference to the point I was making.
This is not a simple black/white issue, as some people were suggesting.
"If bait boat is used, then fish means nothing" thereby shaming (or similar) any capture by people who chose to use a bait boat.
No mitigating circumstances, just that black + white. All bait boat captures are void and the angler is a w****r.
So the examples I gave were to point out that there are lots of things we can do to make fishing easier. Some in small ways
e.g. Distance sticks (aim, get left/right accurate, punch cast, hit clip, swing lead down and feel for donk....much easier than having to feather a cast and hope it doesn't snag on islands/reeds/overhang)
e.g. Remote / electronic alarms - Set trap, go to sleep...
and some in bigger ways
e.g. Row boat - has many advantages that a bait boat doesn't have, and could therefore be classed as advantageous. Sure, there's a skill to using one...I have used row boats on local reservoirs and French venues and I own 2 plastic boats and 1 inflatable so I do know the ins and outs of boat fishing - hence why I know how advantageous they can be. If I had to pick between row boat and bait boat the row boat makes life easier (well, certainly with an electric outboard anyway ... and if you want to take things to extremes, see the Damian Clark video on the Korda venue recently where he has a front mounted motor that keeps the boat in position to help avoid drift!)
So in summary, I guess, let's not tar all bait boat users with the same brush.
What next? Shall we take the comparisons to water size rather than bait placement ... "Your venue is only 2 acres and mine's 285acres ... so you're only ever 100yards away from the fish, so your captures mean less!?"
That would be stupid, as above, due to the amount of variables/factors involved
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In reply to Post #123
There is something lovely about slow cooking on a Trangia ,it takes a bit of learning as well..
@Karlos ,my mate Dave all those years ago was a very competent angler and was a great caster, this is before distance sticks became a thing ,and elastic bands on spools were the norm ..he bought this boat ,used it ,felt it not in the spirit of what angling meant to him and sold it ,mind you ....he angles no more ,as he gave up years ago due to otter predation ..
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In reply to Post #84
"I don’t want to save time, I’m happy just being there"
Being by the water is most of the appeal, catching a fish is the icing on the cake. As for saving time, well I own a Trangia so that speaks volumes..
What's the rush? Taking my time & often failing makes it all the more sweeter when I achieve my goal.
Maybe I will never achieve it, but I'll enjoy the thrill of the chase.
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In reply to Post #120
Hey what BB do you use when you have to trek a fair distance?
Thanks
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In reply to Post #118
Its a good point about the noddies your refer too, couple that with Neils post below and carp fishing is many things to different people from large baron expanses of water to duck pond sized waters where if you fall in you could get eaten alive
I know where my passion firmly sits 
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In reply to Post #118
I did type out a post yesterday reflecting this exact scenario but in the end didn’t post it in case it came across as being a bit up my own arse 
Some of the lakes I’ve fished, and still fish, are large wild gravel pits or overgrown meres where just getting to the water is a considerable challenge. On these large expanses of water there is the physical challenge of actually getting a rod in the water before you even start fishing. If it’s windy or raining (usually both at once) you get a real battering. Forget ripples on the water, you are talking large waves.
I enjoy the challenges of these waters and it does take a lot of effort, stubborness and a certain amount of drive. Blanks are common and when you do catch it’s a fantastic feeling of achievement against the odds. The use of both rowing boat and bait boat help overcome these problems but it’s not a level playing field and the fish certainly hold the majority of the cards. They are just tools in the overall picture. Neither on their own catch fish.
This is why I’m comfortable with their use.
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In reply to Post #116
I often go out on a Saturday to meet people and the venue has so called live music, which usually entails a singer singing along to an iphone. It just doesn't seem right when the singer picks up their phone in between songs and fiddles with it.
Last Saturday they had a proper group on for a change with guitar bass and drums.
Ok the singer in the group wasn't the best but it didn't matter, the band rocked and it was so much better than the usual tripe.
That by the way was my attempt at an analogy
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On the subject of boats (with oars), I don't think it's a great comparison vs bait boats to be honest. The lakes I fish have boats, but only one of them are we permitted to use them. I am not aware of any day ticket lakes where their use is permitted. Can you imagine? Somewhere like Linear
Bait boats everywhere though.
I think that using boats (with oars) to suss out spots, drop rigs, bait up etc, is being done by anglers who have already learned how to feel for a drop, spod at 100 yards +, fish in 50 foot of weed, handle fish correctly. These anglers have now "graduated" so to speak, and are now fishing the types of lakes that actually require use of a boat, and these types of venues are usually totally outside of the ability of the noddies who want 20 runs a day and to fish out of the back of the car (plus who any sensible fishery owner wouldn't in a million years want padding around his lake for a plethora of reasons).
Boats (with oars) and bait boats = not the same IMO.
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In reply to Post #116
Good analogy
I went to a northern soul night the other week, proper vinal and 3 different DJs, bit different to the PC with plug and play!
I suppose its the same as a carp angler and "skill" true ability is substituted by electronic aids, cant bait a spot accurately at 120 yds and get a bait over the top, use a bait boat, cant feature find, use a sonar to find bars and plateaus, cant find clear spots in weed use a camera on your bait boat, all eroding at the anglers true capability, ability and watercraft skills because without them, they couldn't do it 
BUT... the only thing you see is a picture, which in a lot of cases tells a thousand lies and not genuine words 
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In reply to Post #115
Technology always dilutes things that have a cultural, creative or manual aspect to them. Yes, 99 times out of 100 it makes things easier, sometimes more enjoyable, but it also lowers the bar; meaning less commitment, less ability, less “whatever” in order for someone to make a success of it. Good or bad? That’s the question.
An analogy - having been a DJ for 30 years I have used every possible medium available; turntables and vinyl, CD's + CDJ's, and digital via laptop only.
The one thing that is definitely true is that as the technology has got better, the commitment, the ability, the "whatever" has been continually reduced as a critical factor in participation. I have now come to the disappointing yet inevitable realisation that one day, there will be practically nobody left "doing it the old way" (with records and turntables etc) apart from a few stubborn old stalwarts who everyone will laugh at and call a luddite.
With DJ'ing, there is no technical skill needed any longer (such as keeping a couple of records playing in time for 5 minutes), as such, the door has opened to an untold number of people who otherwise probably couldn't be bothered to learn it otherwise.
Then there's the taste in music; when you spend years and years honing your craft, spending inordinate amounts of time in record shops, clubs and spending all your student loan on it, you might develop an astute or esoteric taste in music; be adaptable, basically - and maybe you could be a good DJ. With the continued march forwards with tech, none of this is needed anymore. You can go online and buy the entire playlist of "insert *top* DJ name here", downloaded it all and be playing it on your console in 10 minutes. That's making lots of money for lots of people and so it's entirely in the interests of business to continue to make stuff more accessible to the masses. It is also 100% true that what used to be a pretty expensive game (and still can be) can now be done to a decent standard for pittance.
It's all exactly the same with bait boats in my view. Since I am doing my own thing and more than happy with both my angling (  ) and musical worlds then everyone can just crack on.
If anyone wants to hear any music, drop me a message.
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In reply to Post #113
E-bikes are cheating 
I ride a MB as part of my fitness regime, defeats the object, but for anybody disabled etc I can see the benefit. I was educated the other week though, for example, when you are in the middle of nowhere and knackered they can save the day but ultimately you can go a lot further on them too
And the bite alarm one I don’t get, we rely on the fish to hook itself via our set ups, that just beeps to tell you line is being pulled off your spool. I used to have a couple of old Daiwa JX reels, didn’t need an alarm with those, the spools just clicked loudly
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In reply to Post #113
It may be only one element but lets deal with bait boats at the moment or the thread will go haywire.
The thread is about bait boats being the norm. I think we've established that they are still not allowed on many venues, so we can't say overall they are the norm.
So the question becomes where they are allowed are they the norm, and its quite possible on those venues it is the norm.
Whether GPS and sonar are the norm on bait boats I don't know, my guess is that they are popular but not the norm yet.
As for bite alarms they are not used for bait placement and so don't short cut years of angling skills. I suppose some clever sod will come along and argue against that but that can discussed on another thread. As I say otherwise the thread will go haywire with everyone arguing over boats, gps, sonar, poles, drones, other bait placement methods and whether they are the norm.
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In reply to Post #112
 but bait placement is only part of the puzzle that is fishing. Focusing on one element doesn't answer the question that relates to a.n.other element of the sport.
Different people will draw the line at different points in different areas.
Bite indication: I would imagine 99% of people are happy to use buzzers (and wireless receivers)
Magic twig: Probably 95%+ DON'T like this 'advancement' and feel it's not necessary.
Bait boats: I think Andy's eBike example is good, but I would imagine a lot of that 'anti attitude' WAS finance driven. eBikes, from the little research I have done, are even more expensive than a typical bait boat (I read today that LIDL are selling a Crivit branded bike in France for €1700 - and that's cheap)
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In reply to Post #107
I knew that would be mentioned and is the reason I deliberately mentioned 'placing the bait' 
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As a complete novice you can go on line and buy a complete Argos type set up.
Buy a bag of boilies.
Watch a few U tubes.
Book on an overstocked puddle.
Catch a carp.
It’s full of merit apparently.
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In reply to Post #107
I think CoPilot has nailed it!
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In reply to Post #107
I just asked CoPilot (out of curiosity) and it gave a fairly bland answer
Never heard of that, just googled it, I make it not far off, 2nd one for me
Edit - ask it why do carp anglers use bait boats
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In reply to Post #107
I did ask previously about deepers and if its seen the same but nobody replied. Same goes for rowing boats with sonars. Surely thats cheating or is it because you know how to use a paddle its fine?
Lets go further what about technology to look at the weather to know if its low pressure etc so you know what tactics to use. Technology is a part of life. If its allowed then how is it cheating 
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In reply to Post #105
Was the bite indication on advanced wireless technology?
Are receivers cheating?
Not trying to be pedantic (honestly!) just pointing out that there’s levels of help with all elements of fishing.
Some say the remote control boat is too much. That’s absolutely fine by me, everyone can have their thoughts/opinions but at the end of the day that’s exactly what they are, personal opinions.
If a BB user is breaking rules or being thoughtless/selfish in their use of the BB then by all means give them both barrels ‘Yates style’
I just asked CoPilot (out of curiosity) and it gave a fairly bland answer
“ Ultimately, whether it's "cheating" depends on personal philosophy. Some might say it's just embracing modern technology to improve your chances, while others might prefer the traditional approach for the sake of the sport's heritage.”
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In reply to Post #104
He could have.
Or maybe he couldn't.
The island was too far.
Or maybe he could but it took a few casts and he struggled to get one accurate so left it a bit off the spot and didn't catch.
Or maybe he was determined but inaccurate and took 6 casts to get it spot on, made a disturbance and the fish were off for the day.
Maybe his rig tangled on the cast and he didn't notice despite him getting the cast spot on first time.
I don't think the distance sticks cheat those skills and behaviour choice factors away.
Not against bait baits BTW. Just sharing thoughts.
This chat reminds me of ebikes in mountain biking. 6 years ago you were virtually spat on and abused if you ebiked past "analogue" bikes on a climb.
Nowadays 90% of people are on ebikes on the trails.
I can see that Bait Boats can catch more fish. It'll be a shame if people have to get one in time in order to keep catching.
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In reply to Post #104
No because the bait was placed without the aid of advanced wireless technology
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In reply to Post #101
Your friend Dave could have got tight to the island using distance sticks.
Much cheaper and very simple to use (if you can count)
Still cheating?
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In reply to Post #84
Yeah ,I'll echo what Beyonce has said ,spot on bro..
Now I'm out ,I'm going fishing ,with ,wait for it a non tech overt ,techcheat, device ..
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In reply to Post #92
I tried that ,but all the chemicals in the atmosphere blocked out from the chem trails...,are they clouds ?
I don't know,the other Adam ,could tell you more than me..
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In reply to Post #93
Well there is nothing new under the sun ,as the saying goes ..
Did you know that BB ,that's Denis Watkins - Pitchford wrote about using a toy sailing boat ,sail and wind powered to drop a floating bread bait into the middle of Wheal St Anne ,or Beechmere ..
Is that cheating or an edge ? It's interesting, however tech is so far advanced ,I do truly believe that using a baitboat in today's angling world significantly reduces that capture ,its merit and I also believe that those people who use a baitboat know that to be the case....
My friend Dave ,back in the day bought a BB ,after going to a show ..he used it once in my vicinity I blanked ,Dave caught one ,he was using it tight up to an island ..but he looked at me after with kind of hollow look ,gained no pleasure from that event and soon sold it to another lad at Creedy ...there was no real skill,at all,apart from the changing of money to buy it at the beginning..
Coming back to the word 'edge '....this is a word that encapsulates many meanings ,sharpening your hooks ,looking for a double penetrative splash when casting out ,finding the fish that is fair angling ,using your eyes ,not a bait boat which goes way,way past that point of the word edge,.. at that point its time to evaluate if it might be better to play computer carping ,as ,in this case the edge ,morphs into desperation angling..
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Let’s flip the script. I will ask a more appropriate question. Why are people using bait boats?
Answers above, not on a postcard please lol
If people could not post their pictures for merit, what would they take out of the pastime other than a true passion for angling, and why would you want a bait boat?
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Boats have been used for a long time and I can accept that because the majority of the waters that I have seen with boats are large expanses of water, plenty of room, or smaller lakes would have one to rescue fish if the water was snaggy, for me there is also a certain element of skill using a proper boat too
I am confident in saying I could treble my catch rate if I used a bait boat and all the gizmos, the element of figuring things about from the bank goes totally out of the window, you know, watercraft, the thing that separates men from boys. They can drop a perfect spot of bait with a rig placed nicely amongst it anywhere, add sonar and you can then find the bars and plateaus etc, add camera then you can even drop it on a clear spot on said bar. It’s one, two, three steps too much for me where true angling ability takes a back seat, to be honest, as I said earlier, I see the latter as desperate and I question what people get from it other than playing around with some electrical toys and catching fish they didn’t really deserve under normal angling circumstances. I posted a while ago, I fished a water where a lad was using said tactics, load the boat up then sat in the tent so he could see the iPad screen whilst her drove the boat all over looking for spots. For me, that ain’t cricket, and as I mentioned, how people can truly believe they deserved that fish in their arms is beyond me, saying that he did play it to the net ffs. Personally I would rather blank, but it ain’t about that is it, it’s about catching at all costs and bragging rights but when people post a picture of a fish you can tell people anything…until they get called out on it by somebody who knows the real circumstances lol.
Before it was the pub chuck, now it’s the bait boat
Personally I could really give one because the reality is, the only person you need to convince is yourself, if you can look in the mirror and know that you truly deserved that fish that’s fine, but every artificial aid is one notch off the old merit scale for me.
Bait boats can make total numptys successful anglers, fact 
The only people justifying them are users, I am not a user by choice
You can call me a traditionalist but never call me later for my dinner 
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In reply to Post #96
I've done the same, except my delivery was coffee and sugar!
France is where my boat tends to get used.
I'm only there for 7 nights so would rather let the bait boat float around giving me some idea of depth/features.
I could use a marker rod, but as well as being time consuming I'd spend the first few days wondering how many fish I'd pushed out of my swim and how many days of my holiday I have to wait until they might return.
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In reply to Post #94
Why not use both?
On long sessions in France, I used to row out 3/4 of the way to my spots, drop my bait boat over the side & then send it the last 50 yards to stop the prevent disturbing the area & spooking the fish. Worked quite well.
Same trip, I used my baitboat to send a couple of cold beers across the lake to congratulate a mate who had just caught a new pb.
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In reply to Post #94
If a water allows you to use a row boat then in my mind no. To become competent with a row boat is no easy task either.
There’s always the fish at risk argument as well. Is just going out in a boat to land a fish classed as cheating? You have a much much higher chance of landing something that likely would have been zero from the bank. Most people know common sense prevails here though and it’s much safer for the fish to land it.
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Nobody seems to want to answer the row boat comparison, is using a row boat cheating? It makes the task easier than casting.
All of my waters ban bait boats by the way, I am happy casting...my question isn't pro or anti bait boat. I guess it's highlighting that everybody has different things they do/don't accept
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In reply to Post #91
It’s an edge not cheating, same as using a carbon rod that technology designed for you to be able to cast further and sustain more abuse.
Cheating would be fishing out of bounds or using a bait boat when rules strictly tell you not to. Using micro barbed hooks on barbless only waters. They are forms of cheating, everything else is an edge that the angler can choose to use or not.
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In reply to Post #87
Isn’t there a cloud outside you should be yelling at?
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In reply to Post #89
I'm not familiar with the black mirror mate,or who catches what ..
Except ,it's cheating ..
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In reply to Post #88
Lol,mate that's funny..he,he..
The tech involved is phenomenal, amazing but that's as far as I'll go ,not many on here know this but my family ,not me ,sold and marketed the big Eurocat bait boats I got offered one for free
I turned it down ,so I did..
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In reply to Post #87
Catch at all costs is a big grey area as well as cheating when it comes to fishing in general. Dave Lane was/is renowned for breaking rules, fishing out of bounds etc… which is a catch at all costs mindset in my eyes. I think you would very much class him as a proper fisherman and angler.
Basically saying every capture of the black mirror was not proper angling because no one should have been fishing it. Catch at all costs mentality!
In very simple terms it’s the people who need to have a “do not drink” label on bleach to stay away from bait boats 
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In reply to Post #87
So Adam, just for clarity, are you for or against BB?
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In reply to Post #84
Well said..
It's cheating ,it's cheating because the person using the tech has been brainwashed ,like sheep.that its OK to use a BB in place of time honed, acquired skill..
I've banned them on places I look after,I don't regard catch at all cost mindsets to be proper fishermen anyway ,they most definitely in the main are not anglers ..
It's not in the spirit of angling ,...all this about' each to their own' doesn't wash or cut it ..all captures using a bait boat ,are null and void ...null and void ,cheating that's it..
For those that say it's jealousy, it's not ...I can get the best if I want ..why on earth would someone want to carry unessessary kit around on top.of all the other stuff,..
It's about angling morals within the hobby/pastime ..an unwritten etiquette..
Use a BB,boat ,your cheating !....
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Well this weekend the bait boat won the comp for me between finding spots and casting and using my RT7
All weekend left rod solid bags casting between 12 and 16 wraps on spots i found with lead
Middle rod at night with bait boat found a little drop every night 1kg hemp/corn with spinner rig. During the day put bait on spot but let it rest and changed to zig cast to 11 wraps. Right hand rod zig all weekend playing between 8ft and 16ft of water on both zigs. Last night went back with spinner on spot as rain coming in and drop in pressure to catch a beautiful 36.10lbs dark mirror this morning.
Now i could easily cast and found the spot above.Knew what bait to use what to look for in water and when to fish the spot. Fished 4 x different methods over the weekend trying everything should I be disappointed I caught it from the boat rig? I think not 🤔
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I absolutely think BB are the accepted norm…….but the main thing for me is I simply don’t give a toss what others are doing or not doing, what fish they catch etc I couldn’t care less!
It makes me laugh when people say fishing isn’t what it used to be etc……why? If you do your own thing and not worry about anyone else it’s exactly the same IMO. 2025 fishing For me is the same as when I started in the mid 80s apart from far better tackle to choose from to make fishing far more comfortable.
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I can obviously only speak for myself, but it’s certainly not that I’m jealous and can’t afford a bait boat. It’s not that I see them as an unfair advantage that I wish I had and I don’t find their misuse irritating.
I don’t see using a remote controlled boat as fishing. I would rather give up fishing than use a machine to do it for me. I just don’t get it. I could never be happy with a fish that was caught using a remote controlled machine. That machine has done the skilful bit for me. I’ve spent nearly 40 years learning to do it, why would I want a machine to do it for me?
I love using just a rod and line and honing the skill it takes to put the rig attached to that line where I want it to be. If the fish are beyond where I can put that rig then good for them. They won’t be there forever and when they’re not, I’ll find them. That’s fishing to me.
I don’t want to save time, I’m happy just being there. I don’t care if other people are catching more than me, I’ll catch them eventually, on my terms.
Do those who regularly use a bait boat to catch their fish really and truly think that it is fishing? The same fishing that they learnt and fell in love with when they were a kid?
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You could also argue that a baiting pole is essentially a bait boat on the end of a stick & I don't have an issue in using those.
What's the difference really? One is manoeuvred by hand & the other is wireless.
It's not that I'm jealous or upset by other people having an "unfair" advantage over me, it's more of a personal choice, & I don't force my views on others (except maybe in discussion & having some fun on here ). There's also the potential disturbance/misuse issue which can be annoying.
I'd be interested to know the actual reasoning behind other people's views on bait boat use.
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In reply to Post #81
Well said and good point.
Like anything, bait boats can be and will be missused in the wrong hands and give them a bad name. They have their place and if the lake rules allow then i dont really see an issue with them. I think previously bait boats where out of reach financially for most and thats why many slagged them off. Now they are alot more affordable those people are converting and getting one themselves (not all).
Ive never fished from a row boat so can only comment on observing, i dont doubt at all its a skill in itself. (You could argue using a bait boat requires some skill to use them effectively).
People talk about loss of merit of a capture if a bait boat is used, well the same could be said for the use of row boats. Especially if you jump in it as soon as your alarm sounds, row out and land the fish in the boat to bring it back to dry land. You could argue that that is cheating? Even wading out into the lake to place rigs, is that cheating? Like someone mentioned, bait boats are not allowed in matches.... and niether are boats (to place rigs) or wading out to drop rigs! But because top anglers do it (outside of the match scene) its seen as super carpy.
If you fish a lake that is bait boat dominated..... I see this as an opportunity to take advantage of, the massive edge would be to fish a spread of boilies, be different. Good anglers wouldnt moan what others are doing, good anglers find solutions to problems and often fish differently to everyone else, using the situation to their advantage.
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Quite a few posts refer to accurate casting.
Do distance sticks count as cheating?
We no longer need to feather the lead down as it approaches the destination. We only have to get the left/right aim good and hit the clip, swing the bait down.
Doing_a_brew mentioned my thoughts on row boats (I posted them on another of these threads). Row boats are a massive advantage. Not keen on the idea of a camera on a bait boat....but imagine someone hanging over the side of a row boat with a viewing scope...seeing the bottom first hand in every detail, just feet below them. That used to be considered VERY carpy ... it's a massive edge over what you can achieve with a little bait boat.
I've done it, placed my baits from the row boat on Goncourt and even pushed the lead into the clay on the side of the feeding spot (using landing net handle).
Then, used the handle to hide the lead core in the silkweed to the side and ensure all that was visible on the feeding area was the hook link/bait.
That's a level of cheating not doable with the bait boat.
Were those fish caught by cheating?
Do they deserve any merit?
Would it have been more merit worthy to cast from the bank and (very likely) leave lead/leader/line visible around the spot?
If so, that would suggest the carp which are 'stupid' enough to fall for the shoddy presentation are more merit worthy than those caught by setting the more elegant trap.
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In reply to Post #79
Walker was always looking for new , better tackle ,inventions , edges , he would have used a baitboat .
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In reply to Post #76
. . . . .in a nutshell Neil 
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I think bait boats probably are the accepted norm these days like it or not.
I'm lucky, my water has a ban on all radio controlled devices, which suits me just fine.
At the end of the day I guess it's personal preference.
For me catching a fish while using one would take away some of the sense of achievement & it would play on my conscience. For others they just see it as another tool in their arsenal & I see the argument for both sides.
I enjoy the whole ritual of the analogue way of fishing. Then I do use buzzers, so I suppose that makes me a hypocrite.
Maybe when I'm old & knackered I'll think about getting one, but for now, I'll enjoy the legitimate captures.
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In reply to Post #76
Doesn't matter, you're a wrong 'un and need to be banned from everywhere and everything.
HTH.
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So to put it into some form of context, I’m on a large expanse of water and fishing a 3 rod set up. Right hand rod is at 300yds,using a bait boat due to distance and a sonar used because my eyes don’t work underwater at that distance, middle rod is at 120yds on a feature I’ve found with the lead and baited and cast to, baited up by spodding/spombing out bait, and the left rod is an overhead lob into a flat featureless area about 25yds out as I know fish pass through this area. All my baits are home made on a recipe I’ve honed and tweaked over the years.There’s only me and 1 other angler on the lake ( mid week in winter) and he’s half a mile away. He’s set up on a ‘lazy swim’ by the car park hoping to attract a fish because a lot of bait goes into this ‘lazy’ area. He has used the page 6 approach from Carpology which is a Ronnie rig, a shop bought bait and PVA stick with Goo approach and fished to a lake marker pole denoting the left boundary of his swim about 40 yds out. We all catch 1 fish per rod. So according to this thread the following merit should be awarded:
1st is my middle rod fish as I’ve leaded, cast and baited at distance.
2nd is my left hand rod as I’ve put in the effort to boat across a huge lake with all my gear, used my hard earned knowledge to lob out a bait to a patrol route and baited up by hand.
3rd 4th & 5th is the Carpology lad fishing from the carp park, because he cast out his rods but has put in little effort otherwise, putting his faith that the ‘ lazy’ swim because it sees a fair bit of bait.
6th is my carefully positioned 300yd rod on an old roadway which exists at the bottom of this gravel pit because it was the route the heavy excavators and trucks used before it was flooded. The packed earth means the weed doesn’t grow so a natural clear spot. I found this with a rowing boat and Aqua scope and bait boat and spent a week mapping both by sonar and by eye and now use this knowledge to maximise my catches
There’s roughly 90 acres left unfished. This is a true scenario, other than to even it up I’ve given the other lad an extra couple of fish to make it even - he caught 1.
So the rod which I’ve invested the most time and effort in is deemed the least in merit order. I like casting and will often fish like this. It doesn’t make sense to me TBH.
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In reply to Post #74
I guess my views on baitboats are pretty much the same as those of 55/Beyonce, in that I'm not a fan.
Obviously, if someone has a genuine disability (as opposed to being a lazy obese slob) or is simply elderly and unable to cast more than 30 yards, then that's totally different then I see no issue whatsoever in their use.
I'll also add a caveat about waters (that are of a decent size, let's say 20 acres plus) that they're allowed on, and why their use may not always be a particular edge, in fact it can be the opposite....If everyone uses them, and boats to gravel patches and island margins in excess of 150 yards away, then this leaves tons of open water that rarely, if ever, gets fished. These areas, especially those deep silty bits that are ignored by all the boaters, can be very very productive I've found, especially for the bigger fish.
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In reply to Post #71
@55s / Beyonce - Totally understand your position on this and everyone has a right to an opinion; but to infer baitboats are some kind of 'magic bullet' that can turn an insta-carper into Terry Hearn overnight is a fallacy . . .some proportion is required here I think.
Whilst boats certainly do negate casting / accurate baiting / consistency in general (they help mitigate human error) they don't replace water craft and a general understanding of carp and their environment . . .unless you are fishing overstocked puddles, to be successful you still need to gain the knowledge of how when and where to place baits just as you would with any other method; and if the fish aren't there (irrespective of what your supa dupa sidescan may or may not tell you) captures are still not 'guaranteed' just because you've used a boat . . .
For me (and as already stated) baitboats are primarily a time saving device to enable me to maximise the time I have as efficiently as possible . . .and if they add an edge to my carp fishing on the lakes I can use them on then so be it; tech is not going away - its about to become even more prevalent in the next few decades. I don't need to prove I can find fish / apply bait / cast accurately / fish effectively; I have been doing so for years without a boat so to infer all boat users don't have this ability is nonsense!
There are other less static disciplines that I do associate with these 'skills' and maybe I get the same 'satisfaction' you are inferring from these (which I appreciate you may or may not do yourself if you exclusively fish for carp) Being accurate on moving water takes more skill - trotting a float in a boiling river whilst standing in it up to your waste for several hours or watching the tip of a feeder rod reacting to plucks and twitches or freelining a lump of meat and 'feeling' it through a weedy run takes far more concentration than carp fishing . . . . . . IMO. As for flyfishing - lets not even go there lol . . .
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In reply to Post #72
Quote::: It’s about enjoying a pastime in its fundamental form of angler, rod and line. It’s about taking pride in learning to use that rod and line so that it does what you want it to do.
And that just about sums it up.
Little analogy, wild salmon fly fishing is the most difficult form of angling I've ever tried and most of the best salmon rivers ban any other type of angling for them although some more recently allow spinning. If you were to trot a 🐛 on these rivers you would most likely out fish any fly angler but the fly anglers would see you as a cheat regardless if you could fly fishing you would be taking a short cut to success.
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If bait boat users really think that everyone secretly wants to use one they really don’t get it.
It has nothing to do with snobbery, elitism or ‘being carpy’. It’s about enjoying a pastime in its fundamental form of angler, rod and line. It’s about taking pride in learning to use that rod and line so that it does what want you want it to do. That is the beauty in learning a skill and becoming proficient. If I wanted to learn how to be proficient with a remote controlled boat, that would be my hobby.
It seems from this thread that actually the non bait boaters don’t care if other people want to use one. They are easy to avoid as most lakes don’t allow them. It’s the bait boaters feeling the need to justify using them. Maybe as much to themselves as anyone else.
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In reply to Post #70
.I still cant help feeling that some (not all) that don't embrace tech (if permitted) are either the equivalent of reverse snobs or simply cant afford it so diss it instead
The above sort of explains my ‘merit’ issue in a nutshell. If you reverse the above sentiment, bait boats for me are the only piece of ‘tackle’ that you can purchase a ‘skill’. There is nothing I know of (aside maybe Illegal (hormones) that could turn a complete novice to someone ho has short cutted years of learning. It’s ‘buying’ something that is impossible (on occasions) to compete with unless you follow suit.
I appreciate most if not all of the people on here do not fall into this category- however such is the possible skill dodge of a boat especially one with all the bells and whistles means that comparisons regards catches can change from skill based to £ based.
Whilst I have no interest in carp matches, I don’t think they are allowed on them are they - which to me means they must fall outside the ‘fair means’ threshold.
I am lucky that the waters I now fish they are not allowed on (there is one they are but it is small and open enough that I don’t see them as an advantage anyway’.
As many have said, use one or don’t use one, your hobby your choice. My only slight caveat to that is that in my opinion - baitboat usage impacts everyone more than anything else, it makes the fish harder to catch and call it snobbery if you like, but with the acceptance of the (norm) as per thread those from the outside looking in see toy boats, fish finders and GPS as a bit of a joke. Unlike bite alarms ( that are still ridiculed by all my non fishing friends and family) provide a shop bought skill and learned experience advantage.
Having said all the above, I accept that it’s all down to personal choice and my opinion on anyones catches are of no consequence - but they are not spiteful- but maybe jealousy that someone could buy a 3 rod NGT set up - a bag of bait - some ready tied hooks and I’d out fish them all day long - give them a Mk Carlosfandango boat to go with it and I reckon on many waters they’d kick my arse….
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In reply to Post #57
. . . but the tech isn't used in other disciplines (other than maybe sea fishing) . . .on this basis are you saying on charter trips that use sonar any catches have zero merit as well? Or is it simply carp fishing that it applies to? Personally I don't buy into this anymore and think this is a somewhat defunct view in 2025. . . . .I still cant help feeling that some (not all) that don't embrace tech (if permitted) are either the equivalent of reverse snobs or simply cant afford it so diss it instead. With respect, to say all bait-boat captures have no merit is a very bold and broad statement - and one that is mislead IMO
Each to their own - I fish for carp in a variety of ways that sometimes includes bait boats, other times it doesn't - my free time / my choice. Don't use tech on rivers fishing for barbel but wouldn't sneer at anyone that wanted to lob a deeper out if that gave them pleasure / confidence etc 
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Not really bothered whether other people use them or not as long as it doesn't affect me. However, I've never really fished anywhere that has people using them en masse.
Personally, I doubt I'd ever use one as I think it would take some of the fun out fishing for me. I'm not really somebody who does everything to put the odds of catching in my favour. I'm perfectly content knowing that sometimes the fish that I want to catch are simply uncatchable because I can't get a bait near them. However, I have used full sized boats on big lakes because I enjoy rowing around a lake exploring.
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In reply to Post #66
No they weren't Belgian. It was a long time ago, it had been forgotten about until I remembered today
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In reply to Post #1
Fish for yourself, **** what anyone else thinks. Dont be a **** on the bank and respect others. Follow those rules and you will do for me.
Ps
I got a baitboat - lovely. I can now turn up fish massive beds of particle where I want and not nigh on kill myself - no longer stuck to margin fishing this method.
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In reply to Post #65
What are you on about
Were said anglers Belgian as they'd of said both of theirs.
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In reply to Post #62
How weird is that, as I was typing my last post I was thinking about that snide marker float ploy.
Edit
As regards to Post #63
Why not get a better angler than yourself to catch a fish, then you get to be photographed with it.
Which reminds a fairly known angler with a more well known son got my mate to cast his rod because he couldn't manage it, shortly after he caught. Whose fish is that?
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In reply to Post #63
The analogy doesn't work. There's no skill in using either, and one is simply more convenient.
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I listened to a podcast a few years ago with an old boy Bill Phillips who held the British canal carp record twice over the years, when he started fishing the military canal in the mid to late 60's it was dough bob's as indicators and potatoes for hookbaits, he must be in his late 70's now and still fishing and he gave a good analogy regarding baitboats and technology and the use of it, he was asked by Mike Holly if he owned or had used one, his response was "tools for a job", he went onto to say he had no time for arguments about the use of tech and simply laughs at the elitist/traditionalist that get onto him about it, he then went onto to say "if you've got five hundred screws to put in are you going to use a handheld screw driver or a battery operated drill driver".
I make him about right.
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In reply to Post #61
Totally off topic, but back in the day on one water (2rods only) we would fish a 3rd with a marker float tied by line from the tip ring just laying in the bank, but as tip was in water we actually had loose clutches a snide rod was fishing —-got sussed when one div, did everything but dip the tip!!!
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In reply to Post #59
I've only heard of that rule once before, a chap from Harlow told me it was a rule on a water he fished.
I can see it being abused though, people boating out their rigs at night or when know one is looking. There's always some though, the type that will go to advanced methods of disguising that their rig is in the boat
Some people won't be able to resist it
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In reply to Post #57
Agree with you entirely re merit , you probably like me grew up when there were no computers in our schools and I was in my late teens when the Sinclair spectrum came out and GPS was only on ocean going ships. Youngsters now grow up with this Tec and can use it almost instantly they buy it if they can afford it. Anyone with the cash and the time to research it can go on the net, watch all the instructional vlogs,buy a all singing bait boat and fish spot they could never cast to accurately or even find without the bait boat and sonar etc so a different skill set to what many of us older guys grew up with.
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In reply to Post #58
I could probably accept that rule to be honest, I’ve not heard it before.
It allows for the fact that the primary skill in fishing is placing your baited rig in the front of the fish with a rod and line, not using a machine to do it for you. It also appeases the ‘ I would rather have a bait boat than a spodder next to me’ crowd. .
I still wouldn’t use one, as for me using a machine to do it for you is not fishing, but it could satisfy both sides.
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I have nothing against baitboats at all. I have one and on some waters you simply cannot compete without one.
However, I have noticed more fisheries are banning them, which personally I completely agree with. I have 3 tickets at the moment, 2 ban boats, the third you can only use them to bait up with but you must cast your rod...a great rule IMO, saves hours of constant spombing!
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It’s simple, if people want to use them that’s their choice. The difference for me is merit, because when people start posting pictures wanting some recognition it takes the edge of them for me
Over the years, like most, I have seen so many circumstances where said angler would not have caught the fish without a bait boat, simply put there is no way on earth they could have put a bait there 
Flip side for me is, as technology advances I really question what people take from the pastime, bait boat, sonar, camera, robot carping, personally I can see zero merit in such angling methods, near on cheating other anglers and ultimately themselves, where is the challenge
For me, a lot of it is desperation to catch because under normal circumstances a lot wouldn’t
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In reply to Post #55
People catching their pb's at Berners Hall.. "I was fishing all three rods on the same spot at 35 wraps in a strong wind"
🙂 🙂.. No boats mentioned.. Just say if you used a boat.
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In reply to Post #50
Sorry I was just being a smart ass, been on here long enough to know your not a social media whore with the look at me look what I caught brigade. Agree there is skill involved in using both boat types properly. How anyone fishes doesn't bother me so long as they aren't putting the fish or others at risk.
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Is anyone doing bait boat tuitions yet?
I've been reading baitboat threads on here for over 20 years - where has all this sudden baitboat wokeness come from?
I've gone the other way - I used one for years, caught some nice fish, laughed at anyone who had anything negative to say about it - "casting takes the skill out of using a bait boat" etc
Nowadays I judge everyone on the slightest thing that could impact how credible the carp capture is.
I start with the fish being 100% credible & then I take points off - Pictures of people smiling, scaliness, bangerness, rod tips / reel handles / bobbins not level, hat wear, using groundsheets, clean tea cups, line strength, accessibility of the lake, bait boats (obviously), drones, time of year, distance from rods, wicker basket, ronnie rig, what they're wearing, what football team they support etc - I have a massive list that I go through before I can assign them a final CARP - Credit, Acceptance, Ranking & Proficiency score which decides on whether a capture deserves appreciation & acceptance from me - I can tell you now - not many make it!
It's all in my head - but it's a lot of fun & certainly takes up a lot more of my thoughts than not giving a fvck & being happy for everyone.
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In reply to Post #52
Not applicable in all situations, agreed, but as their use increases, I think it will continue to have an increasingly negative impact on everyone as the fish get increasingly cautious.
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In reply to Post #48
. . . not strictly true . . and using a bb is not 'all' about fishing out of range / under un-castable tree canopies etc. I've also fished lake where bait boat use is prevalent (even with all spots being relatively castable) and it could be argued works against you - anglers casting with small mesh bags / singles often getting better results / hooking into 'missing' fish primarily on the basis that they are doing something different. Pressured waters the fish can get used to seeing 'atypical' bb presentations / baiting spreads and can become cautious because of it . . . .like any method its about using the right tools for the job and the situation that presents itself.
Still think there is a lot of bs about perception and hierarchies of perceived ability - was THs capture of the Burghfield Common any less 'worthy' than Greg Ellis's . . .or did they both cheat lol?
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In reply to Post #49
Totally agree. 👍
A very difficult skill to master which takes a lot of practice and even when skilled still depends on a set logical approach. Plus a third hand would be an advantage.
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In reply to Post #47
I suppose that is a fair point in a way but what I was alluding to was the instagram and Facebook social media where people put up their catches for all to see, opposed to a Forum which attracts far fewer viewers and is more of a discussion group than a ‘look at Me’group. I know that the group of anglers with whom I go to France all have FB accounts but non are on here.
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In reply to Post #46
And yet there is a popular school of thought that bait boats are cheating, but actually taking your baits out with a full sized boat is down to skill.
I mean, you can literally motor out to a spot, look at it, prod the bottom, bait up, drop your hookbaits perfectly on top then row back to shore. Get a bite, jump in the boat, motor out above the fish so it can’t get snagged anywhere then reel it in and net it.
Then try doing it in anything more than 10mph wind while holding your position and checking the bottom then putting your bait out over that spot or small area you've selected and not over the length of the lake looking up after a few seconds to find yourself drifting way off the area then lower your rig onto the baited area and getting back to the bank in a straight line so you haven't got twice as much out as the direct pull, if your lucky enough to get a pickup and it's a decent one that takes you where it wants to go and not where you want it to go try getting out to it in a reasonable wind and expect it to sit where you hooked it without wrapping one of your other lines in the prop, the minute you get in a boat your at a disadvantage as you've got no anchor point there is a way to make them sit near where you've hooked them that works more often than not but I'm sure you know how to do that as it's simple with no skill at all required.
Generally any inexperienced boat angler would cope on a bright sunny day without a breath of wind to a degree, you get better at it the more you do or hopefully you do thus improving your skill set I'd say it's a bit more testing than sending your bait boat out to a marked GPS location and returning to a home point now that is proper Joey Deacon angling, I've seen some doughnuts turn up at venues who have never done any boat fishing in their life and have a right mare due to their lack of knowledge, try it you might like it.
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I think that the use of bait boats makes the fish harder to catch for everyone. If the fish cannot get sanctuary then they will become more cautious. Especially true on waters where the fish are not dependent on anglers bait.
I fish a couple of waters where boat use is allowed, one of which people just send it beyond casting range. The other for no discernible benefit, longest cast is 11 wraps, but not many people use them and those that do use them sensibly so I don’t care.
Disclaimer: I’ve used a boat in France (cos it doesn’t count) and I love using a baiting pole.
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In reply to Post #29
5. As I don’t do social media or publicise my catches, in fact totally the opposite, then as long as I enjoy my hobby as no one else is involved who’s to upset?. I very rarely see many people on my lake. It’s just me and my little toy boat.
Your doing social media now or is carp forum like baitboat caught fish and don't really count
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In reply to Post #27
And yet there is a popular school of thought that bait boats are cheating, but actually taking your baits out with a full sized boat is down to skill.
I mean, you can literally motor out to a spot, look at it, prod the bottom, bait up, drop your hookbaits perfectly on top then row back to shore. Get a bite, jump in the boat, motor out above the fish so it can’t get snagged anywhere then reel it in and net it.
I don’t get it.
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I Just go fishing and do what morally sits right with me I dont worry what others think so long as I'm not interfering with their angling, I fish venues home and abroad that generally allow bait boats and I have owned a bait boat for near 20 years and probably used it as many times and that's been mostly out in France enjoying a holiday session with a group of mates, the dilemma do I stand there and spod/spomb 15 kilo+ of bait out for an hour or more or send the boat out three times in less than 5 minutes and get back to enjoying my holiday, I can angle all manner of ways inside of the rules be it under the tips or at distance with or without a boat, they all count in my book however I've caught them just some carry a little less merit or as memorable, I'm not ultra carpy or thick I roll my sleeves up in the winter returning a carp.
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In reply to Post #43
Based on some of the antis on here Fred you are def now going to hell I'm afraid. . . . . or you (and your lad) can struggle for the next Xyrs on the off chance your casting improves to competition level standards . . . and feel satisfied that any captures now have 'merit' . . .
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I too have never owned a bait boat. Mainly down to the fact that all of the club and day ticket waters that I have fished don't allow them. And also most of the waters I have fished are fairly small (< 20 acres).
However, this year me and the lad have joined a syndicate, which has cost a significant amount of money. It's 80 acres, and the couple of sessions already completed it has become apparent that a bait boat would significantly improve our catch rates. Last weekend, only one swim produced and that was fishing with a BB at 200+ yds. So now in the quandary - do I buy a BB or find 'em, feed 'em and catch 'em.
At the end of the day, I will probably get one, probably next year after a year of finding, feeding and catching (hopefully). It's simple for me, if making the most of an expensive water means buying a BB, then so be it, I'll get one. Whilst I agree that fishing is about getting away from it all, unwinding, having a laugh with mates, being at one with nature and all those other lovely fluffy things, it's also about catching fish!!
Just enjoy your fishing lads, it's not worth getting worked up about!!
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In reply to Post #1
Never owned one or never will.
And post 27, 100%
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In reply to Post #36
Hi,
I don’t do a lot of the YouTube channels or fishing channels so I’m not really up to speed on Mr Hearn’s capture of this fish or the surrounding details.
Sorry - not trying to sound trite but I don’t know, however you have peaked my curiosity so I will look it up 👍
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In reply to Post #35
There is another dimension that I’ve not mentioned because it is not a universal consideration.
My Microcat died on me so for a couple of years I didn’t have a BB. No real problem as I have Bic boat as detailed below. As with most couples, my wife either didn’t understand my fishing or more likely didn’t bother to ask about it as it was boring. Anyway one evening the conversation got around to fishing and she was intrigued about why I had a rowing boat for fishing. I told her how I use it ( no bait boat at this time).I told her that I used it to bait up and drop rigs sometimes at ranges I couldn't cast to on a large open windswept lake. She then asked what I did if I had a fish in darkness? How did I rebait and get the hookbaits out at 250-300 mtrs in total darkness in windy stormy winters nights. I told her exactly the same - I boat them out. She was appalled that I was going out at night at nearly 70 years old and not in my prime, in a small rowing boat on a large lake which to her was a huge, in a remote location with absolutely no help at hand.. She then asked “what about the dog”. I said she comes with me ( we both have life jackets). She was absolutely speechless which is why I now have a new bait boat which I had to solemnly promise I would always use in darkness and never use the boat at night again. So that is why I have an all singing and dancing Baitboat with all the bells n whistles and features.
Baitboats are a tool but don’t solve all the needs we have. A row boat and MKI eyeball solve lots of other situations as do long range rods ( mine are 12’ 9”) big pit reels etc. They are not there by accident
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Nothing against anyone doing anything.
Unfortunately in all life now,people have lost respect for others.
The consequences of not being able to smack ya kids,**** corporal punishment and no police force.
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In reply to Post #36
Was that to me matey? I’m not Neil.
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Not accepted norm on my club lakes. If you can't cast it there, it's a Sanctuary for the fish.
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In reply to Post #27
Respect your answer Neil but would like your take on Mr Hearns capture of the Wasing fish with a boat
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In reply to Post #31
Assuming the rules allow you to bait and drop your rigs from the row boat, where is the requirement for a bait boat?
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In reply to Post #27
Put superbly.
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In reply to Post #32
Neil has got it spot on - perfectly put!
@55's - I too have fished lakes where bb users are absolute stroke pulling tools - but then I've also fished lakes where they're banned and the same eejits are present; casting over lines / into trees / at your feet etc . . . both have been the exception (primarily day tickets) rather than the norm. Last two syndicates I've been on bboats have been allowed and on both of these waters the etiquette has been exceptional - no-one takes the p*ss; using a boat hasn't made them fish at all costs noddies overnight. . . .they're just making advantage of the rules on lakes where not having one is a massive disadvantage!
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In reply to Post #30
Sensible reply but for me it is black and white as my option is that I shrug, I don't campaign against them, they have their place for sure - but (and thank god they are not allowed on my preferred 3 waters) they impact every angler sharing the lake. They are a substitute for effort (in my opinion) or to stretch the line of fair means.
I have caught fish via a boat - not many but a few. Why? - Because I am unable or too lazy to spod at 100 yards. I could learn, I took a Terry Edmund's lesson, but it was easier and too tempting when this holiday was with mates all using boats so my benchmark for a weeks fun was a lot lower.
You sound below to be a very capable and hard working angler, that doesn't get overly fussed by outside likes or opinions, I respect that 100%. the black and white for me is that for every responsible owner is a massive percentage of 'all costs anglers'. Top to bottom this impacts ALL anglers - everyone of us, we may not care about it, but we all like level playing fields, for me it's angling on steroids. If I see a video (what are they called these days!) of a boat being used, I'd watch it, but I don't get that same sense of awe - if someone catches the record fish on a water I know, have fished or that mates fish and the capture was via a boat - I view it differently - I just do, that's not looking down on anyone but it's just me and my personal red lines.
Everything you say - you could do without a boat and that for me is admirable - but you are not the norm and their increased use and popularity especially for those that have never learnt the basics impacts everyone - I just shudder when I hear 'you fish don't you - my mate just had a 40 out of his syndicate his boat cost him £4k......
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In reply to Post #26
It’s not that unusual. Where I actually live there isn’t much decent carp fishing so I’ve always travelled some distance ( via work) to fish. Over the last 20 years the 4 syndicates I’ve been involved with in the North West, South East, Somerset and South West area have all allowed boats and baitboats and I haven’t looked out for them specifically for this reason. All have been reasonably wild and windswept and not in any way ‘manicured’ though so maybe this is the reason?
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In reply to Post #27
I can understand what you’re saying but it isn’t as black and white as that.
1. If there are spots on a lake that as you say are safe zones for carp then anglers will always try and overcome that, sometimes not safely. When the lengths that were being taken at Rainbow were shown in CarpWorld a few years ago there was uproar. There wasn’t a Baitboat in sight but anglers were using all sorts of methods to overcome problem areas. My syndicate Lake does have an out of bounds area which no one can physically access - Baitboat or not.
2. Effort=reward. If you read my post detailing use of rowing boat and Baitboat together there’s a lot of effort that goes into getting it set up and just right, a lot more than a quick leading around, pub chuck, bosh out a spod or catapult a few boilies. By the way, the syndicate I described allows rowing boats as without one you’d only be able to access 40% of the lake, and also allows baitboats. Surprisingly only a small percentage actually use boats even though there is a pool boat accessible to all. Most of these anglers can be seen fishing the two dry land swims ( near the car park) so the effort=reward scenario doesn’t hold water.
3. There is always the Old Chesnut about lack of skill. What if the angler who uses a bait boat actually can cast accurately at distance? I’m a fairly good caster and more importantly can cast and read a marker float, can put a baited rig a fair distance and can repeatedly hit it with a spod/spomb. It’s always bandied about that Baitboat users don’t have any skills. I go to France every year so a lot of the venues have bait boat bans. I just take the marker and spod rod no problem and have never unduly been at any disadvantage.
4. Personal morals. This is a tricky one. I wouldn’t use a drone and I wouldn’t use an underwater camera so what that proves is open to conjecture. However as these are personal issues I tend to not comment on people who do as who am I to criticise?
5. As I don’t do social media or publicise my catches, in fact totally the opposite, then as long as I enjoy my hobby as no one else is involved who’s to upset?. I very rarely see many people on my lake. It’s just me and my little toy boat.
So most of the arguments don’t really stack up and it really is just a case of whether it’s for the individual or not, and let it rest there.
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Reading all these comments wonder what peoples thoughts are on deepers as it surely has the same outcome when it comes to "merit" even though you cast it it tells you lake bottom,depth, structures etc all that can be done with a probing lead but that much quicker
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In reply to Post #27
Well put and we have the same ideas about merit. I’ve also made the hunter analogy before, same as a golfer putting by remote controlled vehicle.
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Cheating is probably a step too far but a moral conundrum for both the anglers using and those others that fish without.
These days a few hours and pounds can buy you a boat that takes you to places that you can’t reach by skill or practice. They can take you to spots that previously were a sanctuary for fish, where the bets were off and when they ventured out proper angling was fairer.
They can take you back via satellite to a spot whilst you crack on a Stella watching Geronimo sail away in the distance with a couple of hoppers worth of food.
You can look at the bottom via a camera, check rig placement, signs of feeding, clear spots etc.
You can scan the lake quietly and get a topography map whilst you grill some bacon and butter your bap.
All of which are of course artificial edges and in my opinion any substantiation regards bite alarms, bolt rigs and the like are ridiculous.
Aside from disability which is a total other ball game, then absolutely I believe it impacts the merits of a catch. I have used one on a holiday venue, in laziness regards getting bait out and not spodding. So not exactly the righteous!
My personal morals are around effort = reward and I admire those type of endeavours- maybe they have more time, access, better bait, but I still look in awe at some captures and wonder if I have the stamina and single mindedness to achieve similar. If the capture was done via the help of a toy boat, either my capture or anyone else’s it’s more of a shoulder shrug for me. The user won’t care, and neither will I but it’s different.
Lots of people don’t have all the features, or don’t use them, or use them responsibly- but if I had a lake, I would not allow them - I want them to have sulking spots, I want them to have have some mystery and natural edge over the hunter, it’s the least they deserve.
Would it be OK for hunters to shoot thier prey via drones as long as they pressed fire?
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In reply to Post #25
It makes sense. I just haven’t heard of anybody fishing this way, or any lakes that allow both bait boats and row boats.
It wouldn’t be my choice, but each to their own if it’s within the rules.
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In reply to Post #24
I have a bait boat and a Bic 252 with a motor.
On this particular lake I fish mid week, normally Monday to Friday, pulling off before the weekend to free up the swim for anglers who can only get out at weekend.
Only 2 of the swims on a 26 acre lake are on dry land and of the others all the ones on the far bank can only be accessed by boat. On arrival I do the usual walk around looking for any signs of life. There’s rarely anyone else on but if there is there’s enough room to avoid them by quite a few acres. I use the Bic to initially check out any likely areas, bays, reedlines, lillypad beds that can’t be seen from dry land. I’m specifically looking for movement in the reedbeds or lilly pads. I also check out the line of the lilly pad beds as sometimes you get single rogue lilly plants off the edge of the main pad line. You need to avoid these like the plague as fish will snag you on these. Your own eyeballs are the best for this. Having found any likely spots, I drop a H marker out then I boat out my gear (and dog) to the most suitable platform. Fishing to spots which can’t be reached other than by boat is always a good tactic on this lake. I then send out the Baitboat from my swim to the H marker and have a good look at the bottom as due to it being a silty Mere you can’t make out the bottom from a rowing boat. Once happy with the spot, it’s saved by GPS. Job done. The baits will be initially boated out and dropped by hand as I like to bait up a large general area with a more concentrated baited area around the Hookbait and retreive the H marker. For the rest of the time I will use the Baitboat. I will repeat the large area baiting up with the Bic boat as required, but all other trips will be by Baitboat.
Of course with GPS and the ability to save all your spots in the Baitboat app it is possible to just use this but I always have a mooch around in the Bic first before using the Baitboat. I need the Bic in any case to get to the platforms to fish off.
Make sense?
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In reply to Post #22
You use a rowing boat to find your spots, then a bait boat to drop your rigs on the spot?
Have I read that correctly?
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In reply to Post #1
I do wonder how many videos have been done by baitboat but they not shown this. It might just be that they think people more open to it now so showing it.
They are banned on the majority of the waters I fish so I can’t use them. However I’ve seen them being used in one lake that was less then an acre in size and you can literally underarm to the spots. It’s when they get used in stupid situations or to go over other people that gave them the bad name
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I think I am what is generally considered Old School, both in tackle and ethos. I fish for my own pleasure, don’t do social media, don’t post pics of my captures. I make or improve lots of bits of tackle and make my own bait as it’s a part of the sport I enjoy. I fish midweek on a proper syndicate when there’s no one around just as I like it. I like to do things as much as possible as they were when I started in the 70’s.
But yes, I have a bait boat and have had one since the early days of the original AT Baitboat. I used it for reaching beyond casting range initially. With an upgrade to a Microcat in the 90’s also came the “Fish Finder” fitted. I annotate “Fish Finder” as I’ve never met a carper who uses it for finding fish, using it solely for studying the bottom topography. My latest boat has a RayMarine fitted and it’s used for the same reason but much more detailed and accurate. I also have a boat and motor which I use regularly. Between, boating around fish spotting and checking out spots visually, scouring the bottom, dropping out baits and baiting up I probably put a lot more effort in than someone who rocks up, does a pub chuck, catapults a few boilies out or a couple of spods, so I don’t follow that argument. The lakes I fish midweek I rarely see another angler and I’m also responsible anyway, so the nuisance angle is ruled out. Cheating - don’t see it that way either, no more than bolt rigs, spods/spombs, rigs with so much metal and plastic bits on them to make them anti eject. Shop bought boilies? Is using a marker float to feel and gauge the bottom cheating? Is using it to mark your spot in conjunction with a line clip or distance sticks cheating?
So I use one, I’m happy to do so, and don’t get over exited about it. Would I use one on a small pond with anglers packed in every swim? No. However as I don’t fish waters like that it’s not a problem I’ve had to face.
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In reply to Post #19
In your opinion, which I respect.
Personally I have never fished anywhere that baitboats are allowed where users haven't taken the piss. And I mean constantly.
Current syndicate; I turn up look across the lake and can straight away see that swims 6, 7 and 8 are empty. Excellent! I push my gear round there to be greeted by a boat going up and down the three swims. The boat user is sat in his bivvy down in swim 4. Not even aware that someone wants to fish where he's busy look for holes in the weed.
Many, many times over the years I've witnessed rigs being taken way out of an anglers own water.
If they were always used within the rules of a water and/or within the boundaries of decent etiquette I wouldn't have anywhere near the dislike of them that I have.
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Since a kid I've always had an issue with my shoulders locking up past a certain point and it's limited my ability to cast any distance. It's limited a lot of my fishing to short ranges floater/margin fishing. This year I bought a bait boat for the very first time, I've yet to use it in anger, but I'm looking forward to dropping out baits at features I could only dream of casting to.
I think like every sport new tech comes along and there will always be some that feel it's not for them, some that need it, and some just view it as another tool in the toolbelt. I think as long as you use your tools safely and respectfully (both of the fish and others) I think it's okay to do what works for you
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In reply to Post #18
Sorry but that is a nonsense statement . . . if Terry Hearn feels like using a boat (when/as appropriate) then why should the rest of us feel any different?
A bit like the 'brolly in winter / move on a fishes fart' brigade I think there's a lot of bs bravado around 'not using a baitboat' in that by intentionally not doing so its somehow more skilful by default and therefore more 'carpy' (whatever that means) . . . . I think the actual reasons are more likely lake rules / cost / habit and self-contrived guilt based on how someone wants to be perceived. . .or cares about how they may or may not be perceived by others
IMO I can pretty much guarantee - if you 'forced' a non-bb advocate that has never used one before to have a play with a fully specified boat and experience the tech if nothing else their eyes will light up and you'll struggle to get the handset off them (a bit like a kid with a rod when they hook into their first decent fish) . . .
I remember being initially 'shamed' on a tough low stock / mega weedy syndicate as the first adopter of the humminbird smartcast. Although the tech was basic for the time it was brilliant for finding holes in the weed at short range and made the whole process quicker / less noisy than a bare lead / marker and three tons of weed piled next to my rods before I'd cast them out. My results started to improve and eventually pretty much every other member (we were all struggling) either wanted to have a go / borrow it 'just to check' or ended up buying one themselves. . . . . . . . .
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Terry Hearn using one was the beginning of the end IMO.
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I wouldn't say the norm yet. In the last 10 years+ they've not been allowed on the 5 waters I've fished in earnest. But that possibly says more about the types of water I like to fish than the general consensus.
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Not allowed on my water anymore because people take the p1ss. Thank god.
Not a bit of me at all I'm afraid, unless you're using one because you physically can't cast that's different obviously but as someone said, why use them when you can cast to the spot easily. I've seen people on another lake literally bait boat into snags, yes they caught but that's not on surely.
Or unless you're fishing a mahoosive lake where the fish are at 200 yards plus maybe if normal.boats aren't allowed.
You wouldn't see Terry using one for a 50 yard cast would you 🤣
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Use one or dont use one, it doesnt bother me as i dont fish these type of waters, so not close to being normal in my world.
If I dont cast or bait the spot by hand or rod, then the sense of achievment or credibility just isnt there. The only caveat for this for me is if you are physically unable to cast.
There is zero comparison to using bite alarms, power barrows and other tech or comfort items etc
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Ive had a Broadlands baitboat for the last 20 years but rarely used it.
I purchased a ND2 last year and its changed my fishing, has it made me more lazier 100% but its also upped my catch rate from little time i have.
I can only use it on of my waters i fish but i couldn't look back now.
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Anyone got a Deeper boat yet?
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In reply to Post #1
Are they the norm?
By the amount of bait boat threads on here you would think so.
There's always question about which one to buy, what ones are the most reliable, what ones are not.
What GPS to put on it, what fish finder, other electronic gizmos
What type of battery, how long do they last, how many batteries do I need, how do I charge them.
What solar panel.
Best way to put rig in hopper.
How to spread the bait.
What courier to use to send them back when they go wrong.
Who does the best repairs
Are spares available?
I won't go on about the use, abuse and a host of other questions, that'll do for now, the list goes on.
Unless you have a disability they seem very expensive and by the number of threads on here it makes me wonder if they are more trouble than they are worth.
oh one last thing. Boat users complaining about those that cast because they don't like the splosh they make
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Nah, I could eventually go to a stock pond full of 50's and scoop one out with a net.
Effort = reward, I like to go fishing, not catching using AI or whatever.
The bite alarm analogy is rubbish, it's just another form of indication, without which you'd never catch.
Lazy b'stards.
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Dont use them wont use them unless health wise i cant cast anymore. ... but in answer to your question Tad they are accepted as the norm by the vast majority. Ive reached the stage where it just makes me more determined to catch without one i try not too let my veiws on them ruin my time fishing.... another year or two and drones wil be regarded in the same way. The only time i get xxxxed off about it is if they are actualy banned then i hit the roof.
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Just like everything, if used appropriately then it can be a good thing.
Think the issue for me comes when people are using them to easily castable spots, too far out their fishable water and impacting on others, putting baits where they shouldn’t or being a nuisance to others.
For me it’s a no go, not that I have a need for one.
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In reply to Post #4
Exactly this.
I actually like using my boat with its perks of Raymarine elements and 5kg of baiting potential on one rod against a rod with a solid bag or few spombs. Do it every session where boats are allowed to see which one does the best. My last 3 sessions even though my rt7 will show fish and tell you the depths, temps hell what poop is on the deck it lost to my solid bag approach on other rods.
They are a tool and they are fun to use. More importantly if used correctly(not taking the piss going in other peoples water) they make less disturbance which benefits your neighboring anglers and saves a hell of a lot of time which when I get to a lake on a Friday evening is great.
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I use one as my shoulder is knackered and too much casting, spodding or using a marker rod leaves me in pain. Even setting up my camp can leave me in agony so i choose to use a boat as often as i can to reduce the pain. And to be honest, i realy dont care if people have an issue with that. Just go fishing and stop worrying what other people are doing, unless they are interfering with your swim or generally being a div.
Do you use alarms cos they are cheating?
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Broke my PB 4 times last season and on 3 different waters and I'm sure using a bait boat helped by getting the bait and rig on the spot and stealthily. Did catch one a rod length out and literally just dapped a spod on the spot, again accuracy and stealth.
I did think about the ethics at first but my results soon put paid to that.
The other benefit is not casting into trees or bushes when you try to get tight to them. In fact one water banned casting to reduce the risk!
At the end of the day it's about personal enjoyment and I'll carry on using mine, where allowed.
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In reply to Post #4
+1 from line 3.
I've never cared what other people think as I'm fishing for my own pleasure not theirs. It's unfortunate that people feel the need to elevate themselves above others due to their own choices, can't they just enjoy their fishjng & captures without pouring scorn on others...human nature, wonderful thing
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In reply to Post #1
Tbf I used to hold the same school of thought re baitboats . . .but then I thought using anything other than a brolly / floater fishing / zigs / power barrows also fell into the same cheating category . . .
Boats are a tool like anything else and they're actually fun to use . . . its ultimately a choice and just adds to the breadth of techniques you can have in your armoury - nobodies forcing you to like or buy one - so if you don't want to, don't!
For me and as I've got older I've realised life is too short for carp fishing; so if a boats allowed and I believe it'll give me an edge I'll use it; doesn't mean I cannot cast / I have zero watercraft by default . . .and I feel no more or less satisfied with my captures whether I've used one or not . . . .and if you cant beat em / join em
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In reply to Post #1
Judging by the amount of company's out there selling them these days. There's obviously a demand. I've been an Avid non believe for many years. Sort of coming round to converting. The only thing putting me of is the price. Seen cheaper small sized family cars.. 
Can't even really say it's the size of them anymore. There's a few realistic sized ones out there now. That don't take up to much space and don't weigh to much. I see the likes of Adam penning are recent converts. And let's face it. If its good enough for the Messiah Mr Hearn. Then that's a good enough reason for us all to convert, isn't it.. 
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The pleasure in just going fishing has been overtaken by the pride in showing other people that you have caught a fish.
People need the social media likes and recognition and using a remote controlled robot to cheat the fish out makes that easy.
Thankfully there are plenty of waters that understand that some people still want to angle for their fish, not trap them with a robot.
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Watching all the latest carping videos put out by the big names and firms on Youtube,it seems that nearly all of them are now using baitboats as a matter of course....
Time was when captures were somewhat discounted when caught using baitboats... Has everyone fallen into line and now just accept them for what they are ....??
Have to say i'm not going to be buying one but on several of the lakes i fish they absolutely dominate the waters....:( Just can't bring myself to go down that road...
Modern carping eh ... Don't you just love it.... :(
Regards Tad.
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