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In reply to Post #37
That's why it's big mistake for me to post anything here on this thread in the first place. I should stick to just solely posting photos on that other thread and keep my mouth shut I already said it earlier. Time to pull back.
There was no reason to get involved here in this thread other than stupidity on my part. Which ended up on a conversation about other stuff. Lesson learned again.
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In reply to Post #36
I came to read about JB flavours 
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In reply to Post #35
You are CopperMill right? I hope I'm remebering the name right. You sent me a friend request under your bait firm. On a personal profile. Same as all the other small bait firms do now. So they can send friend requests as a business. I only accepted as you were from here and I remember you from Cemex.
You're from Cemex Wayne. You know exactly who I am better than most too. Even if you ain't CopperMill, you're just another one similar.
It's all good. I just cannot talk to carp fishing public anymore without any of you guys wanting to get involved. That has led to big arguments right from the start of me being here. The enzyme gang and all their alias's and friends from other forums. There are blokes behind profiles on here in the industry. They just don't let on. That's the sneaky world we live in nowadays.
I've not posted on social media apart from here for months. Cannot do that. It's to busy as it is and to much to do. The moment I mention anything about that online, there are always instantly problems. See post 6. Or check out yourself.
Me personally, I wish you guys would not read a word I said. But that's never the case, and others see it clearly too.
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In reply to Post #34
My friend Mozzi?
Apart from the odd interaction on here I’ve got absolutely no idea who he is. He’s certainly not a friend. I’ve never met the bloke or spoken one word to him off of the forum.
Who is it you think I am? You’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick here. You say you aren’t being offensive but you’ve posted on here that you had to remove me from your facebook for spreading stuff about your Mrs, even though I don’t know either of you, don’t even know your names, have never had a personal facebook account, has far as I’m aware have never been friends with you on facebook unless you added me and didn’t introduce who you were. So anyone reading your post is now gonna unfairly think I’m a complete 5hitbag for something I know absolutely nothing about. That is actually offensive to me.
Where did I say “some do it different” I’ve just read back my post and I can’t see anything like that at all.
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I'm not confusing you with anyone else whatsoever. I'm certainly not being offensive to you. Just clear and concise.
Yeah I know, you don't look at anything. You can't say anything different in front of your customers. Any sane person knows that.
I understand why all you fellas do what you do. For some exposure. You're looking for threads on here to get involved with for some extra exposure. And I understand why too. Because you do not get that exposure elsewhere on the other platforms. So all roads lead to what you do for your business. That's what the end of your post was about.... "Some do it different"... You're talking about yourself. Your friend Mozzi was here doing identical. So many others before him.
You run a hook bait firm. You use carp fishing flavours like everyone else does in your bait. I'm talking about something else here. Something different. Instead of just sitting back and learning something, you guys have to get involved, and try to show your expertise. I understand why too, I really do. The stuff that I have been saying on the SHB thread would be pretty offensive for you. Me saying you lots are doing it wrong. Same as all the other blokes doing what you do. There's lots on this forum. Some of the others are just not honest about it. At least you are. Under this profile anyway. That's exactly why Winkle was here just after I posted it. Frustration at what he's just read on SHB. Venting on here.
There's so many of you. I'm not confusing you with anyone. You just all have the same SP.
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In reply to Post #32
I think you are confusing me with someone else. I genuinely have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I’ve got no idea who you are or who your Mrs is and I certainly wouldn’t be on your personal facebook, in fact apart from my bait page I don’t even have a facebook account. I just clicked on the wrong reply button when trying to reply to the original poster about flavours and in all the years I’ve been on here I’ve only ever had this one profile, I did have a couple on the CEMEX/RMC that were obviously fake with silly names but all the regulars on there knew it was me, like Fireman Spam and Spod-u-like etc. I honestly am at a complete loss as to what you are talking about. As far as selling bait. I’ve been making it for twenty five years so that’s nothing new either. You’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick or you’ve got me mixed up with someone else on facebook, and I will be honest I’ve not looked at the SHB thread in months so I’ve got zero idea what you think I was replying to. I’m totally confused by what you’ve said. I also don’t understand what you’re saying about what I’ve written when I try to sell bait on here. I’ve never tried to sell bait on here, I wouldn’t think more than a couple of members on here would even know the name of my company and even then they’d only know that cos they fish the same waters as me.
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You were not replying to the OP. You were replying to me. Just like post 6, Winkle wanted my attention. Ten minutes after I replied to a normal CarpForum member, you were reacting to my post. It took you ten minutes to write that. You were also more importantly, reacting to what I had written on the SHB thread. Same as post 6, old Winkle. You guys have real problems with honesty.
The difference with you and Winkle to the normal members on here, he wanted a pop up company, and you have your food bait hook bait company, that's now more a boillie company you say. You're here to engage with me, not the opening poster. You're one of the fellas from here that I had to remove from my personal social media along with the rest. But you were one of the main reasons for that. Because personal stuff about my missus that was only seen there, started making it's way on here under fake profiles. You're someone who openly admits on here, to having had loads of fake profiles to wind people up on Cemex. Now you have a bait firm selling food hook baits.
If anyone has a read of what is written when you try to sell your bait. You are not looking at the people you are mentioning in this thread, you are looking directly at me. At every word I say. I understand that. Others do too. But I have had problems with very strange men doing the same thing as what you are doing here, ever since I joined this forum. People who can't quite say what they want to say under their own profiles in reality.
So yes, the moment you fellas all turn up, with your confusing posts, or trying to get a rise from me, I'm gone. I have to write all this out. As otherwise I just look like some crazy going off at random people for no reason. Me and you guys know the real truth though, eh.
Somebody much wiser than me said to me last year regarding this forum. "Mark, you are an idiot sometimes". "Watch out for who posts, just after you". "It's normally always someone involved in the bait industry". "It's normally always trying to get a reaction from you, or just a bitter reaction to what you are saying". "It's gone on since your first posts on that forum, just walk away Mark".
This is me walking away from that in this thread, that's all. I should not have even reacted to Winkle. I should never be posting on here outside of the SHB thread whatsoever anymore. There's some incredible people on this forum. But there's also some very strange and bitter men, who all had a go, or are having a go at doing what I do. It might not have worked out, or be working out so great for them. And that becomes my fault inside their crazy heads. The reality is they used to be customers. Then decide they can do that better as they want a business. Start out as inspiration for them, end up being hated by them when I am then their main competition. Once it does not work out. Me and all I say is the devil. It's not just online. Most of the hook bait companies are run by people who fished the same lake as me. They started up after I left. It just comes with the territory.
If I start saying stuff on the SHB thread like I did the other day, that winds up these people tighter than a drum. It's like a vicious circle. I have always tried to help Karlos bring new people to this forum. The people who follow me the most though online, are people trying to do what I do. That is one lesson I have learned better than any other. Carp fishing is full up with people who just copy what someone else is doing. We all know this. It's always been this way. This bait section is full up with people who absolutely detest me in reality. Because they have their own bait firm, want their own bait firm, or had their own bait firm and it did not work out for them. Some are just promo team members as that's carp fishing these days. That;'s why there's so many rows in this bait section constantly. To these people I am the anti Christ. When normal people say nice things to me on here, I cringe. Because I instantly know that will upset the fellas who want that themselves.
It becomes very hard for me to talk to normal members like in this thread. Some of you want to ask me things. But that will involve other people from the bait industry who want what I have getting involved. That's all. It's no biggie. But it needs explaining.
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He original poster was talking about hookbaits. Thats why i gave examples of two successful anglers with a very different approach to flavour levels in hookbaits.
I know John Baker has spoken about this loads as have others. He advocates very little flavour in hookbaits/BOLD>
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In reply to Post #25
Frank has mentioned more than once that the high levels of flavour are mainly used in his hookbaits. His feedbaits are normal or low dosed with flavour
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In reply to Post #28
Thanks for the reply. As soon as they arrive the experimenting will start👍
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In reply to Post #27
Quote.... I'd suggest that the JB type flavour levels are for adding to a food bait that is fed and prebaited, so it has a longer working life. The FW levels are for single hi vis pops as a one off attractor.
Nail on the head. He's confusing two completely different things. Which is exactly why I'm telling Roy to make up his own mind. What's needed to make a cardboard pop up attractive, is not the same as food bait.
It's also specifically why it's time for me to hot foot it back to the SHB thread now. This thread has reminded me why. Can't be certain which of some members profiles I'm speaking to anymore. 
It's only some flavours. But they are very HIGH quality for you home rollers.
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In reply to Post #25
I'd suggest that the JB type flavour levels are for adding to a food bait that is fed and prebaited, so it has a longer working life.
The FW levels are for single hi vis pops as a one off attractor.
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In reply to Post #21
I'd imagine that's exactly why fishing ingredient suppliers had to start writing 'not for human consumption' on the bottles of fishing flavourings. So some clueless vape customer don't end up purchasing bottles of out of date Strawberry, or Pineapple/N Butric flavouring that's not for human consumption to add to their vape mixture and inhale
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Flavour levels is such a personal thing. Within a normal range I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer.
Take two bait gurus
1. John Baker advocates ultra low levels.
2. Frank Warwick pioneered over flavoured pop ups.
Both highly successful anglers over many years.
Some of the levels that I’ve seen Frank discuss that he’s used would stun an elephant. Others put absolutely zero flavouring in and rely solely on ingredients, hydros and essential oils.
I can’t say either approach is wrong or right.
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In reply to Post #20
Quote... We'll see... any idea on the dosage?
No offence intended whatsoever Roy, don't take this the wrong way. I don't know what you ordered mate. I do not want to know either. Someone else's opinion about a dosage level on a fishing bottle of flavour, means absolutely zero anyway. It's only some other persons opinion. They might fish for 5lbers or be absolutely clueless in reality. They just sell fishing gear/bait. That's often the case. I bet you're not clueless at all Roy. You will figure it out when it arrives mate.
It's human nature to question, because you have not seen it yet. You will see when it arrives and know for yourself mate.
It's only flavour. Just good quality human grade gear. It's where fishing flavours all came from in the first place. The food industry. It's been going slightly longer than the carp fishing industry too.
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Whilst on the subject of flavour house companies. Has anyone had any experience or dealings with Universal Flavours?
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Any vapers up for giving monster crab a go?
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In reply to Post #19
Just ordered some food aroma's from capella. Hopefully its the pure stuff.
We'll see... any idea on the dosage?
Thanks for the info.
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In reply to Post #16
A PG flavour, is a PG flavour Roy. The flavours were around long before vaping ever was. Vaping just means that there are now more high quality human grade food flavourings being imported into the UK than before from all around the world. Obviously to be able to add to a vape mixture, and inhale, it has to be high quality stuff. Not twenty five year old oxidised rubbish that tastes like battery acid. They use the same flavours that we do within fishing, to do that, to make their nicotine mixes from scratch. Just human grade stuff. Made from propylene glycol. I put up a link to the Capella site. They are all the type of flavours that you would see in the supermarket in the baking aisle. Or a bakery wholesalers. You will have experienced these products in foods that you consume before.
Buying from a vape wholesaler you should ensure you only buy pure base flavours. Not a pre made mix for vaping. That will contain other stuff you don't want.
It's just flavour. Same as Monster Crab, or Maple Cream.
Capella are high quality flavours.
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In reply to Post #17
That's the only thing useful then from Vaping😂
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In reply to Post #16
Yes. There's bloody hundreds of varieties as well.
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In reply to Post #14
So if i'm understanding this good. The flavours used with vaping can also be used as a flavour in boillies?
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In reply to Post #13
That's what they get used for over here. Vaping. If you have a read of what they were started for, what their core business is in the US, it's food and drink flavourings. That's why I came into contact with them in the first place in Brazil, through a high end wedding and birthday cake producer.
There's a big world out there. Some of the best flavour houses are in Eastern Europe now.
I mentioned Capella for you lot, because it's a very high quality flavouring that you can get hold of here, without any account. You just have to find a vape wholesaler that you can rely on to give you the 100% real mc coy every single time.
If you look at all the low end flavour sellers on eBay for example. They are buying from someone like Capella and rebottling, watering it down vastly in some cases and selling it on under their own business name. So you do have to be very wary. Stuff that ends up in the fishing industry will often be out of date stuff from the human chain.
Get it from a reputable licensed vape seller with a great turnover. Or just stick to someone like JB who is doing all that work for you. Or Catchit Labs, who actually synthesize great value flavourings for the carp industry themselves. There's a big world outside of the fishing industry though if you want to experiment for yourself.
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Agreed on Capella in terms of vaping flavours. I used to them when mixing my own vape juice. In the vape world they are regarded as one of the better quality flavours. In terms of sourcing, there are a fair few online vape stores that sell it and as low as 10ml bottles.
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In reply to Post #10
Jesus - Energy Drink flavour! I feel like I've put on 10kgs just by looking at that flavour list! Got to love our healthy eating American cousins..........
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I've used JB's flavours for years at his recommended dosages. I doubt that there is anyone else in the world that has more experience and knowledge than JB regarding flavours in carp bait. Not the cheapest but realistically a 100ml bottle would last for a looong time for the average home roller.
JB made me a custom blend years ago and I pretty much use it exclusively.
The only other flavours I have used in the past 10+ years are a couple from Sam Barley - excellent but seriously overpriced! Used for home made winter hook baits.
Having said all that it's rare that I don't have a Specialised Hookbait cast out........
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In reply to Post #9
You're welcome.
I get to see them first hand when in Brazil where they are used a lot. They make loads of different flavours. High quality.
Check out Capella Flavors Inc online, although you will not be able to purchase from there without an account. You can see what they do.
https://www.capellaflavors.com/company
https://innovationsoftheworld.com/capella-flavors/
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In reply to Post #8
Cheers… I’ll look in to that. 👍🏻
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In reply to Post #4
Capella are a USA company. You can buy some of their products from wholesalers over here who purchase in quantity and rebottle, sell onto you in smaller quantity. Look at vape wholesalers. Since the advent of vapes a lot of companies are now importing flavours into the UK for vape connoisseurs to make their own blends.
The only problem with that scenario is trust. You have to trust that the person doing the rebottling is giving you 100% the real mc coy. It's very simple to water expensive flavours down slightly. You would not know if it was cheap banana flavour and not real mc coy Capella either.
That's why I would only buy from source, or other trusted source's. That's why you might be better sticking with some one like JB. Because he has a great rep and clearly can be trusted by carp anglers.
But Capella make excellent flavours.
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In reply to Post #6
Quote..... No idea what relevance the other post has.
Alright Winkle.
John does not make his flavours does he as far as I know? He's not a flavour producer as in the person who actually synthesises the flavours. I did not really want to spell that out. But that would be why I have no clue about dosage rates as per post. Never used them personally.
Things said to justify being twice or three times the price of a source producer may fool people like you, but people with a bit more knowledge would understand. That's why you don't I guess. If you are making bait at home, it hardly matters paying more for quality stuff well sourced. In a business equation that's not the case though.
Don't try to make this about silliness Winkle. There's some very good information in that post if you look past your hard on for moi. Did you miss me?
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In reply to Post #1
As Paul say's in post 2, experimentation will help. The fish will tell you everything you need to know, probably John's advice is a shortcut to that.
No idea what relevance the other post has.
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In reply to Post #1
Yes, it would. I don’t load them up, but if you put 1ml in and his rate is 0.2 then obviously that’s x5 his dosage but not a huge amount.
I’m not new to making bait, I was just interested if others were rigidly sticking to recommend amounts.
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In reply to Post #3
Very interesting. 👍🏻
Yes, makes total sense. However, I would know where to start to look for international flavourist! I also don’t make enough quantity to buy that amount.
I agree and just stick to catchit and John’s.
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In reply to Post #2
I have no experience of dosage rates with JB flavours. We buy in our flavours worldwide. None of the best stuff comes from the UK anymore in my opinion. We only buy direct from the people who actually manufacture the flavours themselves. We don't pay any middleman double for the same product. Stuff goes into the products we sell. So it's not for resale.
The flavours used within the carp fishing industry are very cheap compared to expensive human chain nature identical products, even purchased direct. They all have ones that are good, and all have ones that are terrible. Even my old friend Bob Cambell had some real shockers I would regard as a repellant. Catchit are good too. JB stuff gets a good rep.
We use some stuff that ranges from £140 to near £250 a litre direct from source in bulk. Compare that to a standard carp bait flavour of around £20 - £30 per litre. If I was to rebottle that sort of stuff under our name and resell it, we would need to at least double that to make the profits. £500 per litre to you. Likely £100 or more for 100ml without stuff being watered down.
That's expensive. There are so many fruits around the world that we just don't see or hear of here. One is Acai in Brazil. A member of the same family of fruits as plum. If I gave you a top of the line nature identical Acai flavour to whiff, you would swear blind it was plum. Once you step out of our fishing realm, your eyes will be opened.
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In reply to Post #1
I would, as a rule, it would be easy for him to say load 'em up and buy more when you run out , but he doesn't. However, there's always scope for experimentation, try testing different flavours PH level fo instance.
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I know John Baker has spoken about this loads as have others. He advocates very little flavour in hookbaits where others use vastly more. 0.2ml or 0.5ml just doesn’t seem enough for me and I always use several times more with success. Although I have caught with very little flavour too following his instructions.
So, do you stick to John’s guides?
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