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In reply to Post #341
Nay?
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In reply to Post #339
What's yes in horse
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Oh man, now i have to buy some horse viagra (or the exact opposite) from the vet? She already looked funny at me when i told her my cows needed some help:P
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In reply to Post #338
Pun intended?
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In reply to Post #337
That's right, unless we here it from the horses mouth
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In reply to Post #336
I’m not sure that we will ever know the full story here….it’s possibly best that we don’t!!
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In reply to Post #331
Readily available at a veterinarians??
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In reply to Post #331
A Trammel net.
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In reply to Post #331
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In reply to Post #331
fenugreek
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In reply to Post #331
Bisto
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Kev states categorically that he's not using Hormones but admits that he does have an edge that he uses and it's very effective in shallow water. 
As to what this 'edge' is something he wants to keep a secret but he said it's readily available but not in a tackle shop. And it's not just a bottle of instant catch liquid either.
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In reply to Post #319
Having not paid much attention or knowing who people are… the bloke with the red face, is he sponsored by esp? The most core of carp brands.
If you lads tell me esp haven’t addressed that car crash interview I’ll be boycotting all esp and drennan products. Not because the bloke is guilty, how are we supposed to know either way, but the level of arrogance and deception are something else.
That 'level of arrogance' as you put it is the reason I try to avoid ESP products now, stemming from a certain article in Advanced Carp Fishing about leadcore.
It is sad because they do make some very good tackle, and the East Anglian Tackle rep Julian as it was then, or still is, is a very good guy, known him for years.
One of the few reps in the tackle shops we would allow to basically write out our tackle orders himself.
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In reply to Post #324
Trout pellets have been readily available for way more than twenty five years.
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In reply to Post #327
Naa, carpers gotta be Stella acta****.
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In reply to Post #325
Not Diet Coke or Coke Zero
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In reply to Post #325
no wonder carp angling is seen as a joke by non angling paternity, these people will do more damage to angling than a 100 otters, and i couldnt give a dam who they are or who they think they are
"if true of course  "
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In reply to Post #308
The secret IS out there, hiding in plain sight...
...Cherry coke in the spod mix!!!!
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In reply to Post #317
I used to do a bit of match fishing back in the day when I lived up north and I remember vividly about 25 years ago watching the famous "Barnsley Blacks" absolutely rip the field apart at Elsecar Reservoir and they continued to do this for months and months winning absolutely everything.
The match world was alive with gossip of secret baits, cheating etc etc and eventually the secret of their success got out of the bag........they were the first to use the only previously commercially available humble Trout Pellet.....and the rest is history!
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In reply to Post #322
Keep it quiet it's my edge 
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In reply to Post #320
ghehe, lol
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In reply to Post #320
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the secret is out - http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messages.asp?TopicID=434366
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #316
id love to listen to carp chrons one,...i might have to ask Sam 
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In reply to Post #315
im no match angler, used to years ago, but not like this carp match stuff these days...more rivers and traditional waters as opposed to these false carp ponds/reservoirs.
everyone used much of a much in terms of bait and it was really down to luck of the draw, stakes were low, in fact, if it paid for your match fees and bait, you'd done ok, nowadays, stakes are set too high.
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In reply to Post #312
You’re right about that podcast Frenzy. Didn’t the guy admit he was using a product not generally available?
If it wasn’t for that podcast I wouldn’t believe any of this stuff. It’s getting to the point now where we actually need to know what has been going on and what has been used…..even if it does turn out to be bloodworm liquid😂
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In reply to Post #312
I know a lot of good anglers. Carp match fishing is know as “death at the draw bag” you are either on fish or not, any decent angler KNOWS what the hot swims are, most will tell you before a match if they are in with a chance or not, FACT, same with all match fishing, I have seen people go home without casting a line in the past because of this. The whole reason why carp matches do not interest me one bit, it’s a lottery, unless your on the hormone 
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In reply to Post #313
That aside, it really is an easy fix
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In reply to Post #311
Must have been on the northern specials over hemp, corn and bloodworm piss 
The pastime is full of ****ing sheep who are more conditioned than the carp sadly, they will believe anything 
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In reply to Post #311
its pretty obvious to me, but....i may be wrong, but i doubt it very much
Lets face it..angling ability
we ALL have access to everything tackle wise these days, we all can see what these so called stars are doing re rigs etc....no way in my book is someone on a feature less lake doing anythign any different to what we all can...apart from "additives"
and i dont care what anyone says...my opinion...im no match angler, but carp fishing on a level playing field isnt hard....biggest factor is time in my book
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In reply to Post #308
Exactly this
I fished next to maker on b1. I was on fish and had about 10 in the previous 24 hours. He moved in next door, i had 3 more fish and then blanked for 12 hours after he began absolutely hauling.
I think he had 15-20 fish just that day and kept catching all night
We were both fishing on the bottom, at very similar ranges (120ish) and i was using a very similar mix to what he claims to use
Having watched him, there is no denying that he is a good angler, but our rigs were no more than 30yds apart on a featureless lake, and i had been catching well. Whatever he lobbed out didnt just make him catch, it outright stopped me catching
Seen it in the bcac as well. Two very well known pairs fishing directly opposite eachother, both on their boundaries so fishing a max of 20 yds apart, both on the bottom over bait. One pair had 60 odd fish, those opposite had 8 i think. The pair that had 8 have also been caught up in the hysteria around hormones ironically
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In reply to Post #309
Easy way to quash this i reckon
so what if "secrets" are given away....better than losing your lively hood and if their angling ability is so superior, they aint got too much too worry about have they????
Nash podcast episode 30 - he looked so guilty it was daft...and all these list of experimental ingredients really?
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In reply to Post #308
Nail on head!
That podcast was a total disaster!
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In reply to Post #307
In my book...IF these so called superstar anglers havent been using hormones, then the best way to save face, quash all the rumours is to tell everyone what the have been using...
that NASH podcast, episode 30, that bloke didnt do himself not angling any favours at all, in fact, made it worst
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So Tom Maker has been using 'additives' to get his big hits as well? Makes sense TBH. 
Makes you wonder if all repeated 'big hits' are due to the use of 'additives'.....
Red letter days only happen every now and then.... Not all the time and this is the same for all of us... yes, hard work pays off sometimes but most often you work your ass off and don't get any reward.
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In reply to Post #304
I think you'll find it was due to unpaid bills, not late filing.
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In reply to Post #302
Rings true from Tom's Facebook post, sounds like they were a nightmare to work with.
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In reply to Post #301
Nothing on companies house about new owners
They were subject to a winding up order but this was due to the accounts not being published and when submitted this order was canceled
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In reply to Post #302
I guess we'll see in time then. Seems odd that it's happened now after apparently changing hands. I'm sure the truth will come out soon enough and your mates will be proved right or wrong
Quick look on companies House and it doesn't appear to have changed hands. The strike off notice has been cancelled though. Their accounts do look like they are in a bit of bother
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In reply to Post #300
It’s what I have heard from people associated with the company. As I said before they would have dropped them months ago if that was the real reason. Monster has not been sold and numerous buyers have pulled out because of the amount of debts so I am told.
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In reply to Post #298
I thought monster particles had changed hands recently? If I’m right, maybe the new owners just have a different view on what they think Is acceptable?
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In reply to Post #298
You know this how? Or is it just guess work?
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In reply to Post #298
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Without going into to much detail I think there is more than meets the eye with this post. The company is in debt up to its eyeballs and has various anglers after there paycheck from the company. They owe certain anglers money and simply do not wish to pay and have released this statement to discredit certain anglers and to stop them from collecting there money. If they was serious about the hormones this would of been done months ago however it’s only coming to light now they are in financial difficulties. Another scumbag move from monster.
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In reply to Post #295
I don’t give a **** who they are, no impact on my fishing whatsoever 
I will say one thing though, if I was sat on said waters that they were dosing I would be a little pissed off to say the very least!
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In reply to Post #294
Fancy believing people who are not good at poker
Carpfishing is renowned for stoke pulling, I’m 100% confident it’s fact
Fancy people thinking it’s good angling when good anglers all around them are blanking their arses of while the drug users are clubbing seals, everywhere!
Deffo get on the bloodworm piss or was it chopped worm 
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In reply to Post #293
There comment re the hate directed via social media to the cheat I disagree with, deserve all they get and I won't buy from there new sponsors either.
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In reply to Post #293
Fancy believing a bailiff
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In reply to Post #291
Well said MP, last paragraph spot on
Fancy telling a bailiff too 
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In reply to Post #287
Once a good hormone, always a good hormone
It’s clear cut, it was last time for me, you always get somebody in the know in this game, cheating ****s, unfair advantage
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Monster particle have posted about it 20 mins ago
Not sure how genuine the post is, could just be hormonal
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In reply to Post #288
It is bloodworm liquid lol
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In reply to Post #277
Maybe but it's bloomin suspicious that whenever a certain angler is on the lake he has at least a decent hit every time and yet you use the same bait, same spots and usually blank. It's also a surprise that he's the only one fishing the lake smashing it up time and time again.
Without a doubt certain anglers are using an edge and it's being kept quiet most likely due to it being a prescription drug.
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In reply to Post #277
Because coarse matces are the same as 48 or 72h carp matches... Lol but I agree it is good angling it is not easy to get that many fish in... It is so hard that on some eu matces guys were realing in during night to sleep and fished only 2 out of 4 allowed rods catching double or triple kg of others fishing 4 all 72h. Match after match... Resting swim does work... Once a good angler always a good angler...
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In reply to Post #285
very true mate
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In reply to Post #284
Kids are far easier to handle!
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In reply to Post #283
its like looking after kids sometimes
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In reply to Post #282
Haha, mods should never sleep!
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In reply to Post #281
have an evening off from modding and i miss all the action
time for a tidy up i guess
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In reply to Post #276
I’ve seen it as a kid whilst fishing coarse matches…..good angler pulls a duff peg and wins the match, it’s called good angling.
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In reply to Post #272
Same.. I saw it at Farlows in the qualifiers, in a rubbish swim and getting so many runs, the people either side couldn't buy a bite..
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In reply to Post #272
Did they not call them out at the time?
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In reply to Post #270
Money talks, common sense walks.
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In reply to Post #271
It´s common knowledge and widely used on the European Carp Competition circuit, and has been for ages Nothing new When big money´s involved, the deviants come out to play 
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In reply to Post #270
I fished a bcac qualifier and i have never seen anything so obvious. Some very very good anglers were fishing opposite, probably only 20yds away from this spot on open water and couldn't buy a bite yet the winning pair were having 4 takes at the same time for hour after hour
People can say it didn't happen and can threaten people with lawsuits all they like. We know that it was happening. Simple as that
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I’m pretty sure I first heard about dodgy hormones being used in carp Fishing way back in the early 2000’s , there was a Carp match at Raduta and some obscure team not known for Carp Fishing expertise completely annihilated all the competition.
Anyone else remember the event? I’m sure it was in all the Mags.
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In reply to Post #269
The people with the proof refused to publish it out of fear of lawsuits.
It clearly did happen and probably still does. More fool the catch at any cost brigade. Sad bunch.
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In reply to Post #266
From what I could tell there was no evidence whatsoever that this was going on, just a few anglers jealous of others results and a couple of weird podcasts. I might be wrong but nothing was proved.
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In reply to Post #267
That episode was removed. PM sent
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In reply to Post #154
Any idea what episode the carp chronicles talk about this as the link doesn't work and I listen to there podcast and haven't heard anything ?
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In reply to Post #265
Very embarassing indeed
In this particularly case, the deafening silence heard from those "ruling bodies", CAN definately be construed as evidence of indirect GUILT , not wanting to poke the hornets´ nest
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In reply to Post #263
Yes it was. Whether the ‘allegations’ were true or false the silence from the Anglers Trust, Carp Society and the sponsoring commercial companies was an embarrassing disgrace.
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In reply to Post #262
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In reply to Post #262
As the biggest open membership carp anglers group in the country I would have expected some comment from them.
Wasn't it alleged that hormones had been used on one of the waters under their control?
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In reply to Post #261
What’s it got to do with the carp society?
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In reply to Post #257
Was there ever any comment/condemnation from the Angling Trust or the Carp Society? I haven't seen anything, a bit dissapointing from both organisations if that's the case.
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In reply to Post #257
Could not agree more, at least I now have a list of names and companies to avoid on fb and you tube and in the tackle shops
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In reply to Post #258
kells ... that´s exactly why. To silence those who know, and spread doubt to those who don´t.
Mental lockdown before Covid
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Was it even a thing??? Beginning to wonder now? All gone very quite.  
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In reply to Post #256
Threat of legal action silenced the masses Those in a position to address the issue & publicly condemn the use of such substances, cowardly crept back into the shadows, watching from afar.
Waiting patiently for the tide to recede, without ruffling any feathers
Bunch of wnakers
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In reply to Post #255
This all got quietly swept under the carpet didn’t it. 
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In reply to Post #254
How are hormone boyz doing these days? Any big hits lately?
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In reply to Post #253
I have the same problem when I've been on the morning squash.
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In reply to Post #251
Probably had a letter from the 'lawyer'
Seece and disist I are lawyer and going to do you a prison if you don't stop the aqsasions.
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| | | Cam | | Posts: 6529 |  | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #251
Not sure what that means?
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In reply to Post #250
looks like so mods got the special bloodworm liquid to try out...
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Carpfeed are even mocking it with their latest “who needs hormones when you’ve got these” article about 5 good carp baits.
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Well TM just held a live Q&A on the fox fb page, I asked what his views were regarding the rumoured use of hormones as a carp attractant but I guess he must have missed it as he never answered lol
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In reply to Post #247
All soon to be forgotten like it never happened
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In reply to Post #246
Shame the 7x40s post got locked. Can't you just delete the rave diversion
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In reply to Post #245
Had to google it , but yes👍🏻
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In reply to Post #244
Is that more like a haiku?
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In reply to Post #239
Here we go 😂 did I touch a nerve?
Let’s get back on topic
I don’t come in here to get abuse , last time I upset someone
they sent me a pm saying there would travel from Poole to London
to sort me out 😂
You don’t have to like what I post
But a least be sensible , on an open forum
Never been much of a poet and I know it 👍🏻
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In reply to Post #239
Ha, Brilliant lol
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In reply to Post #239
Post of the year 
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In reply to Post #239
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In reply to Post #239
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 |  | |
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In reply to Post #238
I like your poem, but it doesn't rhyme.
I think it could be improved by adding the line 'I've got a bucket and sometimes I poo in it' at the end.
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In reply to Post #237
So using hormones in dirt and spombed onto spots is legal
during week days then 😂😂
Ok mid week anglers have an advantage
But this has been going on for a long time , I’m sure sponsored anglers are
under pressure to catch , and must be tempted
That’s unfair , let’s say a lot of anglers
Let’s face it most anglers would jump on it , because they feel the need to be
admired , for a better word
Angling is no longer a past time for many , I’m pretty obsessed with the hobby
But have no interest in mags, other peoples catches , Facebook etc
It’s about the chase, the highs and lows
But basically the enjoyment
I love my carp fishing , but this stuff will ruin it
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In reply to Post #8
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In reply to Post #234
Out of interest, have others anglers catch rates fallen or stayed similar to what would be expected on your water during this time?
It must be said that the biggest (legal) edge in angling by a long shot is time, and being able to do midweek sessions when most others are hard working should produce considerably more bites.. On my water, us weekend anglers would turn up on a Friday morning until furlough became part of everyone's lives in one way or another, after which I really couldn't get on the fish or anywhere near where I wanted to be so swapped my working week about and now fish Sunday to Tuesday, probably only every 2-3 weeks, so not every week for sure. Still, my catch rate tripled..
I now jokingly say on Tuesday afternoon when I'm packing up the weekend anglers will be arriving tomorrow morning..
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In reply to Post #230
I believe it's being used for sure
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I need to be very careful not to cross a line here. But this revelation has certainly given me a pause for thought. One of the rumoured anglers joined a water that I have a ticket for. Now I have to say that he’s undoubtedly a great angler. Plus he was fishing multiple nights a week, and doing mid week when it was much quieter. His results for a first season were more than impressive. He caught as many fish in a month as most guys catch in a season and you have to realise this water is fished by the best anglers I’ve ever fished with. If it is true he’s a silly lad cos he’ll be out on his ar@e for sure. Shame cos although I’ve not met him, those that have said what a nice guy he is.
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In reply to Post #230
No, absolutely been going on
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In reply to Post #230
It's just true.. No doubt about, it certain anglers turning up and catching non stop from start to finish.. Loads of people have seen it happening..
I personally have seen some well known anglers catching lots of fish when no one else can get a bite (Farlows) It's impossible this is just down to accurate casting.
Also the chemicals used have been named on several websites.
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In reply to Post #230
I believe it is happening what i was told was from way before certain podcasts and recent rumours
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In reply to Post #229
Putting witchhunting and vicious insinuations aside, does the general carping fraternity BELIEVE that there is a certain hormone being used within the sport, or do most believe this to be a myth ?
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In reply to Post #228
Should be both!
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In reply to Post #209
Is that the anglers in question or the product itself?
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In reply to Post #215
we cant ignore whats been talked about everywhere!
only delete when it gets out of hand.
Discussion is good and IF true, this issue needs weeding out and stopping
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In reply to Post #224
well if farriers fish start going wonky or belly up then the carp society will need to step in.
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In reply to Post #175
the data sheet on the suppliers website in Gillingham is frightening , its as scary/dangerous as anthrax and £64 for 1mg
Shocking stuff and available to joe public without license
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In reply to Post #223
It’s widespread use will be awful. Imagine fish spawning throughout the year because it’s being used by the many and not select individuals at low enough levels to not induce spawning.
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In reply to Post #215
You can also use it to educate fellow anglers. Tell them the dangers for themselves, carp and nature.
This will have more impact than putting it underground. Rumours will stay and people will try to get grip of the 'magic' attractant...
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In reply to Post #221
There’s plenty of info on the internet around hormones being used to attract carp for trapping purposes. It’s already been mentioned in this post. And if you read the document that’s published on the internet it tells you the brand names and even links to manufacturers, but a quick google search will take you to plenty of uk suppliers of one of the branded products. That said, you need a prescription to buy it over the internet.
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In reply to Post #216
Probably safer being underground than putting thoughts into people's heads and more people trying out mentioned products.
It's been said already you won't be able to police it...
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In reply to Post #211
In the carp chronicles podcast they say it has the same effect on bream and that someone it backfired on someone in a competition in that manner where they used it and got battered off the bream
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In reply to Post #215
I think it's a bit late for that mate
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I believe in this case that social media could damage carp fishing more than the original arguement.!! This is not a Ronnie rig...
Personally delete all the threads or stop people looking up products discussed which they may try on lakes which is the main issue out there!!!
Admin...
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In reply to Post #213
Not an excuse, just a question. By the powers of deduction I’m sure I have figured out a potential product that it is.
Apparently these angler do get big hauls of other species too.
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In reply to Post #211
Maybe they would look to fish lakes lacking bream etc
This isn’t very difficult these days
I can’t understand all the excuses , I’m glad I’m no fanboy 😂
Until proven guilty ? , talk of writs 😂
I’m sure people know who’s responsible , apparently they stand out😂
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In reply to Post #211
Why do all fish don't spawn at the same time?
This answer is part of the riddle you suggested.
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Has anyone stopped to think that if it was a hormone to stimulate some form of spawning response, wouldn’t it also stimulate every other fish in the lake. As you can’t get a carp specific hormone. It doesn’t exist. In aquaculture they inject hormones directly to the broodstock but they aren’t made specifically for carp.
Why aren’t these anglers having mega hauls of bream and tench too?
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In reply to Post #209
What substance would that be?
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In reply to Post #208
Banned on all CWA waters. Statement put out a few days ago.
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In reply to Post #207
Apart from all the evidence they have but quite rightly won’t use or have been asked not to use.
They did suggest a fishery owner comes out and bans it. Then we all know what it is without knowing who.
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In reply to Post #206
Ive listened to the podcasts including the Nash one where KH gets asked about it by Hassan.. not actually seen or heard any evidence against anyone using hormones yet..
Might have been wise to document some evidence before discussing it On a rumour mill basis.
The 3 anglers who posted the same threats of legal action on Fb… other than they are all top anglers and all very successful… why them..it’s certainly horrible to be accused if your innocent. Imagine if you got wrongly accused.
Carp chronicles follow up podcast sounded a little like covering themselves to me. They now suggest it’s probably just some bait geeks at it? Again zero evidence presented.
If it has gone on hopefully all this will nip it in the bud.
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In reply to Post #204
Something like this would never end up in court, its tit for tat! If you put yourself in the spotlight and are successful expect criticism as its part and parcel of life, if they have cheated it will come out, if they haven't it will be forgotten about shortly, its that simple
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In reply to Post #204
Let’s hope there is nothing in it. Just for the carp’s sake.
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Social media posts released from I guess (the accused) anglers tonight:
I would like to start off with saying thank you for all of the support I have received of late in regard of the false allegations, lies and defamation of character which have been made both directly and indirectly against me.
I have not responded earlier or discussed matters upon legal advice, also whilst evidence has been collated so the appropriate writs and claims for damages can be served accordingly to all persons involved with these false allegations with no evidence or proof against me.
I do not, or have Ever used any illicit substance’s which cannot be used in and around an Aquatic environment.
I condemn any use of the alleged substances which have been suggested.
I can say that I have to date never seen another angler using such types of these so called “substance’s”
I would say that to anyone who has created damaging content,posts, comments lies etc to consider your position, I will allow a 72hour window of opportunity for you to post an apology/retraction statement on your social media platforms or name who has given you false information to avoid any further legal action.
Again Thank you all who have supported me on this matter and that have been disgusted by the actions of a few, it has caused me a great deal of stress, issues and grief. Along with unnecessary abuse and mental impact. I do not wish for this to continue for ether myself or others as it will have a detrimental impact on their lives and well being.
Enjoy your fishing people
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In reply to Post #201
Absolutely..
My hope is that it loses momentum and waters are no affected, we can then all fish fairly for our quarry.
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In reply to Post #200
Totally, totally 👍
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In reply to Post #198
You also have to consider the possibility that currently there MAY be one or two anglers on the odd water using said magic potion, what if that number went up to say, 20/30?
If I were a fishery owner, I'd be a tad worried right now. Maggots have been banned on occasion and they're considered "natural" but still cause pollution and bad water quality if enough of them are chucked in, gawd knows what this stuff might do (assuming that it's one of possible 20 odd dodgy prescription substances I've read about).
I have to say though, it's quite a fascinating subject once you start delving into it but I won't be chucking anything dodgy in my Koi pond any time soon just to find out, I just don't feel the need to catch a fish that badly and my livelihood doesn't depend on me doing that on a regular basis either so I'll just keep on plugging away with a tried and tested bait from someone respectable, at least the playing field is level then.
It will be interesting to see how this develops over the next few days given the subject seems to have gathered a bit of momentum.
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In reply to Post #199
I'd agree that some things are better unsaid. The problem here is so much has been said already ..
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In reply to Post #196
You make some very valid points which I'll nod in agreement with. Thing is, as you know, there really as some special idiots out there that not only need saving from themselves, but also from the wider audience. Idiots handling chemicals that harm human life, really? It's bad enough when you get tools lump in 70kg of maize in tiny lakes in one go - seen it done - which just slowly rots away on the lakebed and that the fish just won't even touch, let alone a substance like what's being talked about in the aforementioned hands of said tools of which I dread to think of the consequences thereafter. The at all costs brigade, well, I don't think I need to spell it out.
I'd go as far as to say that something's are best left unsaid and I'll add that from what I've read so far, too much has been said already even if what has been mentioned has been added for constructive use.
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In reply to Post #196
There’s 4 brands which all differ slightly. So just by naming one of them you immediately put 4 of them out there. Something that used in extremely small doses in adult horses and cows being named without a recommended dose would lead to the same issues you are talking about with people guessing anyway
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In reply to Post #191
Well if it has been used then these anglers have used it very effectively so know the exact amounts that work best. If you name the product you have to provide a best use guide otherwise people will overdose it if they can get their hands on it. Whether they’d do that regardless of a guide is what I was saying before anyway.
The long reaching repercussions of these individuals will be seen for years to come. Just close to the users you’d have job losses for these individuals, the vets and potentially farm staff, legal challenges against the individuals and teams they fish for in matches by PO’d people they beat and prosecutions for illegal use of a controlled substance for them, distribution for whoever is selling it and probably theft too.
In all honesty the above should happen and rightly so.
Go further though and you have the antis all over it and probably the general public hating on angling too. Which fishery owners start claiming the hormone use F’d spawning cycles up and fish died as a result and file civil claims. Not to mention potential environmental repercussions too.
Get the users named and shamed. Let fishery owners ban them if they so choose to. They will suffer quietly for their actions. Can’t fish anywhere decent and they have no value to the industry any more.
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In reply to Post #195
Of course it's not without risk, but imo the risk of people guessing and using "insert any chemical " the repercussions could be even greater. Keeping things hushed creates a very guilty look. Fact is this is being discussed openly on various platforms , so all it looks like to people not involved in angling is that there is a very successful but very dangerous substance being used and that it's being kept quiet because we know it's wrong. People were very quick to jump on Korda for goo, all the flouroscene talk, and wanted them condemned and yet now this comes up, and now we should all keep quiet? It's going to come out one way or another, and the sooner it does the sooner it can be dealt with properly,and all the guess work and potentially dangerous experiments that some will no doubt be doing can stop . This creates so many more problems than just this one substance.
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In reply to Post #191
It's a really bad idea mentioning what this gear is, after all, it's not like there isn't rake loadsa unscrupulous types willing to sell illicit drugs on the daily is there. I'm sure if someone is determined enough, something like what's being discussed wouldn't be that hard to get hold of, and then where would we be?
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In reply to Post #190
"The thing I find very suspicious is how hard certain people are trying to find out what it's called."
Ha ha, read my mind 👈
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In reply to Post #189
I take your point, and it's a very good point too 👍
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In reply to Post #190
If that last comment is aimed at me then you really are barking up the wrong tree.
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In reply to Post #187
There can't be an instruction to use because it's not meant to be used. That would be condoning it which isn't going to happen with the vast majority of anglers. These guys (if guilty) are doing it for financial gain (winning matches etc) ,not for their love of the sport . Name and shame the saying goes. All we've had so far is some very muddled stories, a very guilty looking guy trying to answer awkward questions (which was a wind up if anyone believes that bs) and some guesses on various online platforms. Angling needs to be forthcoming on this, prove it's just a few bad eggs using this stuff ,and deal with that quickly. Not bury its head in the sand, keep quiet and hope it goes away. Cos that ain't happening. When things are kept hush it just gets worse. The Chinese kept covid hush and we all know where how that's gone so far.....
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In reply to Post #188
Couldn't agree more. Voicing the name is like printing The Anarchist Cookbook and not expecting someone to follow through and make a bomb. The thing I find very suspicious is how hard certain people are trying to find out what it's called.
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In reply to Post #188
That would open up an even bigger can of worms. Due to the product(s) they’d have to disclose to DEFRA and in turn natural england would be privy to the info, and there’s plenty of anti anglers in NE believe you me.
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In reply to Post #186
I'm of the opinion that the product in question should not be named simply due to too many morons out there that if they could get their hands on it could cause huge problems, not only to themselves and those around them when handling such a thing, also the environmental factors/water courses/detrimental effects.
If someone wants to contact the EA and bring this up with them, all that someone has to say there is a possibility of this being used and let them deal with it like inform clubs, fishery owners etc. Absolutely no need to say what this stuff is at all.
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In reply to Post #186
I get that. But even if it’s named there needs to be an instruction on how to use it. Which no one wants because it shows to the outside world you’re advocating it’s use. Do you really think even with an idiots guide there won’t be the same idiots that you think will Chuck anything and everything in playing the guessing game, that overdose the stuff even when told because they don’t have common sense and understand science.
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In reply to Post #180
So it's better to keep quite and have people guessing and chucking who knows what into the water? Nah, not a chance.
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In reply to Post #184
In what way are they causing a bad atmosphere?
If it's not just catching more is it a case of them being ****holes? Tbh those named so far come across as alright to me (not that I've met them personally).
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In reply to Post #183
No problem with better anglers at all, as I'm very much you're average Joe. I'm lucky enough to have 3 good tickets. Two of them have a nice atmosphere and all the anglers get on well, so I'm just choosing to fish there instead.
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In reply to Post #182
I don't intend on visiting there until certain anglers have left, as regardless of whether they're using something dodgy they create a crap atmosphere.
Taking it a bit far imo mate.
I totally agree that if they're using this stuff then it's time to get livid, but if they're not then you can't just give up because better anglers are present.
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In reply to Post #170
It has done that exactly for me and my lake. I don't intend on visiting there until certain anglers have left, as regardless of whether they're using something dodgy they create a crap atmosphere. A syndicate is only as good as its membership. Only takes a few egos or inconsiderate anglers to mess up the fishing for others.
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In reply to Post #171
Whatever happened to Ben & Barry?
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In reply to Post #175
4 main brands for it in the UK. None of which you can get hold of easily... Im sure one layer of the secrecy is to protect the supplier(s) of it. Vets would be stricken off and farmers/horse breeders would have licences revoked for not only this product but most prescription meds which would ruin them financially.
I agree that sensibly it should not be named, because with the naming of it/them you have to give directions for use because these solutions are used at low levels in adult horses (like 1ml per dose). This doesnt leave anyone guessing on it and royally F-ing the environment by trial and error. The anti's would be all over that sort of thing. Damage limitation for the sport in general. God forbid the AT or MSM get hold of this.
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In reply to Post #178
Yep!
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In reply to Post #176
This has been covered, when you say plot thickens I think you mean the bull**** thickens lol
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In reply to Post #175
Can i still be James?
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In reply to Post #154
I have just been reading through the Munch Baits post. It now seems he is claiming it is liquid bloodworm he was talking about in the Nash podcast and says he stated “ something not available in tackle shops” which if you watch the Pod Cast he does not say! He states not something used in carp fishing? Also says now that it was planned like that to cause a stir and was a mistake!!.., the plot thickens!!
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In reply to Post #169
come on lets be frank. It has to be some sort of PGF2A in branded form.
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In reply to Post #173
I suspect that many match results will be being questioned that have occurred in recent years.
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In reply to Post #171
Any idea how many years this has been going on? As from the sounds of it quite a few – and without the vast majority knowing anything about it.
It’s obviously very easy to use discreetly, and would be impossible to ban or police even if named.
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In reply to Post #169
Hence it needs stopping straight away , and by covering it up and keeping quiet it prevents that happening.
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In reply to Post #168
I think a lot of names being brought up won't be entering the comps for a long time. Which I think is a good thing for those who are cheating but at the same time those being falsely accused its a shame.
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Can’t imagine that the regular carpers paying ever higher syndicate prices would be too welcoming of any of the names mentioned turning upon their waters. Imagine trying to enjoy fishing alongside that, knowing that some bloke can rock up &empty your lake like that. It would completely ruin it for me I know that!!!
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In reply to Post #167
Anti's can use proven facts far more effectively than rumour and gossip; this thread will get pulled if it gets named plus all the others I'd imagine..
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In reply to Post #165
It will also be interesting to see when the next 'big hit' type of film goes on you tube and from which company. My guess is that those involved with whatever this is will keep their heads down for a while but the others will continue as normal ..
Or carp comp, no idea when these happen though as I don't follow them at all..
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In reply to Post #165
Or being very secretive about it gives the antis ammo too, as things are clearly being hidden which they will see and portray as angling in general up to no good. Works boths ways. Either way it's a massive sh1t storm brewing , and one that now can't be undone .
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In reply to Post #164
All in your opinion which you are entitled to. People can research things very easily these days, the internet has all the info if you look far enough. And then therefore they can see the potential for harm themselves, rather than just being told it's harmful by some guy on a forum.
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In reply to Post #163
Naming it will give the anti's all the ammo they need; let's not let that happen..
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In reply to Post #163
Do research on it? Unless you're a medical professionally what research are you going to do? If the name was readily available then thousands of anglers will be trying to get it this week. Thousands will not be able to get but I bet you hundreds will and before anything is actually done about the supply of it into fishing industry the effects could wiped lakes out all so the government can say "You can't use this in fishing". The risk for saying the name far out weighs keep it to those who already know. We will just have to agree to disagree on the matter.
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In reply to Post #162
Or maybe naming it allows people to do some research on it, and also to highlight it to the relevant authorities to get it dealt with properly. It will highlight what is very had practice to the vetenary industry and could mean a tightening of the rules there, and more severe consequences for any get dishing it out in this way. Keeping stuff quiet looks very suspicious,as does continually saying it should be kept quiet
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In reply to Post #161
You have to work to your lowest common denominator, which unfortunately is an arse hole who is going to try and find this drug and saying the name in here isn't going to make an ounce of difference because even with the name the lakes won't be able to practically test for it at lakes without a lab. So saying Chemical X is banned on a lake rule board won't do anything, but letting thousands of anglers know the name will have a huge impact. The only thing saying the name will do is allow people to know what to ask for and there is plenty of bent vets and people within the desired field for the drug who are selling it not aware of the impact it will have.
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In reply to Post #160
Exactly why it needs to be named , not sure why people who say they are opposed to it are so insistent it needs to be kept quiet unless for an ulterior motive
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In reply to Post #154
I think we all know its some form of PGF2A(please correct me if I'm way off could be any of DALMAZIN/ESTRUMATE/LUTALYSE/CLOPROSTENOL et al). why keep the substance name hidden? people need to know what's going on. near on impossible to get hold of anyway unless you have a contact who would be providing you with it illegally via prescription.
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In reply to Post #157
I mean I haven't heard it from anyone I know to back up what their saying.
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In reply to Post #143
People use it in bodybuilding.
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In reply to Post #156
Says it in the hobo armour blog post that you linked
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In reply to Post #155
I've not heard that one but it wouldn't surprise me and its a genius idea if its true. Its not like people can go to the police
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In reply to Post #154
Hadnt seen the Hobo Armour one..... People selling vile's of salt water in essex and claiming its the "substance"
Would love to know how many have been mugged off with that and how much they paid
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Heres some links that I have found that aren't a million miles from the truth, the Carp Chronicals Podcast is 100% bang on and then there is the Munch Baits post on facebook. The hilarious thing about that is absolutely no names were mentioned in the post but a certain someone (known for podcasts ) chirps up in the comment section digging himself into an even bigger hole. I have also been sent a link to a blog Hobo Armour have done but this doesn't give you too much info that hasn't already been said. I think all of these companies want to highlight the issue without giving the general public the name as it won't help anything and also its massive click bait. Jonny Mac also did a post that he took down because a witch hunt began on his post and people were just accusing everyone with no evidence what so ever. Some one has a big hit of fish and then all of a sudden there using hormone, which we know isn't true. All the people who are denying it and pulling out the Donald Trump fake news card are all financially invested in catching fish so in my eyes there opinions don't mean ****. I've worked in the industry now for 15 years and this is 100% not fake news. If I get sent anymore links I will put them on here.
Carp Chronicals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQgUpAAKduU
Hobo Armour Blog: https://hoboarmour.com/blogs/news/carp-hormone-rumours
Munch Baits Facebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/munchbaitsltd/photos/a.790227854420077/4363268880449272
P.S Go on YouTube and search Carp Hormone and look at the faces that keep appearing consistently in videos with no reference to Carp Hormones what so ever hahaha. Obviously not proof theses guys are using it but I just thought it was funny.
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In reply to Post #144
100% it's not just gossip i've been offered it myself more then once. I don't think the name of the chemical should ever come out because all you have to do is look at the amount of views this thread has had compared to how many users have commented. So many people are trying desperately to get there hands on it, and it is expensive if you compare it to other liquids on the market as prices vary from £50-70 for 15ml. However 1ml can transform your session so its rather inexpensive when you think some numpties use a full bottle of Korda Goo a session thinking it gives them an edge at £12 a pop.
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In reply to Post #145
It was late and spell check was doing its job lol
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In reply to Post #147
The word in the upper circles is yes but not just Europe, have you ever wondered how countries competing against England that aren't prolific in carp fishing with anglers that no one has ever heard of absolute annihilate England which has some of the best anglers in the world up and the Anglers having there names brought up are all in association with the individuals in this group one way or another.
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In reply to Post #143
What a first post from a new member 
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In reply to Post #143
So I'm currently considering is it worth getting my Mrs pregnant and saving 9 months worth of her urine to spod out, for the chance to empty a lake 
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In reply to Post #143
Can imagine that the whoever’s been supplying it to the anglers is bricking it too. Vets would lose their license. Wasn’t part of the story that this substance was being used in Europe too? Probably could be easily imported from a country where they aren’t as tightly controlled?
Just a thought there.
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In reply to Post #143
Surprise
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In reply to Post #143
I assume you mean male carp milt, not milk?!
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In reply to Post #143
So by implication you are saying that some people are using this substance, therefore it's not just gossip. I just hope it all comes out in the open and when the excrement gets in the ventilation system the right people get covered in it. When you start messing with animals reproductive systems it's time to call a halt.
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There is no need to name the substance because you can't obtain it anyway. The long and short of it is you cannot order it online, and it isn't a product for fishing you can only get it from a Vet with a prescription so if your thinking of buying chemicals on amazon or over the counter your well off and all your doing is polluting the water ways for no reason what so ever. There is no way of a lake owner to test the bait without a lab so even if they knew the name so it wouldn't make an ounce of difference. For those referencing Australia you're also wrong.
Needs to be prescribed by a Vet as its a controlled substance. 100% illegal to obtain for fishing purposes or to sell on and has no place in a lake as it is extremely harmful to humans and basically anything that isn't a horse. Creates an environment that draws in males as they are expecting females to start to spawn, which is why certain anglers are getting massive hits of fish predominantly male fish that will be milking out of season so pritty easy to know whos using it if you know what to look for. Male carp can produce milk within 3 days, which then eventually will draw the females in. It is synthetic version of the Horses equivalent of the chemical found in a pregnant Womans urine that pregnancy test detect.
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In reply to Post #140
Bit of a lose lose for him now let's face it.
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In reply to Post #137
He posted on facebook yesterday when someone asked him about the rumours.
Paraphrasing, it went along the lines of "the truth will come out in due course, be patient"
Seems confident.
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In reply to Post #137
“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.”
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In reply to Post #137
I honestly hope that you are correct.
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In reply to Post #136
I've watched the podcast a few times now and he actually categorically denies hormone use and seems honest about that. He also says that's its readily available just not used in fishing. so that would rule out any sort of prescription only hormone/pheromone. Now if he turns out to be lying then his career is over but if you watch it a few times and everyone is taking hormones etc and illegal stuff he denies it all. And if its not illegal or unethical or harmful etc why the hell should he disclose it? He gave away alot on that podcast and he wouldn't have even gone that deep if it's was what everyone was saying it is.
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In reply to Post #133
How much have you heard on the carp grapevine yourself that you would not dare to put on here? Plenty I bet.
We are a very small community in the grand scheme of things, however due to the balance of things, defamation laws and threats of legal action isn't far away.
Realistically, who is going to put their head above the parapet and say "Right, Angler A is using banned substances, Tackle Manufacturer B nicked fish for his french water, Syndicate owner C got caught moving dodgy fish in France and does it here too, Bait company D sells coke from its warehouse"
Who's going to risk a CCJ/Mortgage/Job for that? We(some) know it happens, has happened, but I don't have X, Y or Z type of money, and money talks, hence why these practices occur. It takes a brave soul like those who go on podcasts to go against the grain and out these people, thankfully it doesn't take much to put the puzzle together. After all, small communities know which colour underwear you have out on the washing line within no time.
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Well if it is all true there could be a few Carpology articles need rewriting from, "no bull**** just good solid angling" to "complete bull****, nothing like good angling".... 
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In reply to Post #133
It is, but I depends who you talk to. Like I said, you don’t get smoke without fire 🔥
Is using hormones a problem if it is not damaging to the fish or the environment, don’t think so myself. If it’s dangerous for the user than more the fool them but you could say that with a few ingredients
What is wrong though is, if your using hormones and not admitting to it, that’s cheating everybody else really for me
Yep I’m using them, interesting...
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In reply to Post #130
So the evidence you have that they definitely used an illegal pharmaceutical ingredient is that the ‘carp grapevine’ says so? The biggest bunch of bitchy, gossiping old women around
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In reply to Post #131
The real deal in proper quantities however obviously tells a different story
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In reply to Post #126
I tried it many years ago when it was brought out. Didn't seem to make any difference to catch rate, so stopped using it.
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In reply to Post #124
The obvious, you dont get smoke without fire and the carp fishing grapevine is usually not far off
Are they going to admit to it, are they ****, catches would loose all credability and they would be frowned on forever more wherever they went
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In reply to Post #128
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In reply to Post #127
I guess in the same way that Calpol is the same principle as Tramadol.
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In reply to Post #126
well what's being used is same principal, just maybe not as legit
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In reply to Post #125
That stuff has been around for donkeys, more than likely a few threads on it on here from years ago.
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In reply to Post #124
could be something like this that seems legit? "ULTRABITE uses the CEFAS produced fish attractant"
link
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In reply to Post #123
On what actual evidence is that statement based though?
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In reply to Post #117
Similar thoughts to me. People have been using it, simple, only a fool would think any different due to the amount of feedback see 
Makes a mockery out of their catches, watercraft and all 
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In reply to Post #1
This is what happens when you put salesmen on a pedestal.
"power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
If these claims are correct and those using the chemical are knowingly using it and knowingly know of their dangers to ecology, they need to be in the job centre by monday. No ifs or buts.
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In reply to Post #120
The stuff needs to be named and banned before people start buying and using all sorts of dangerous gear trying to find out what it is..
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In reply to Post #52
It has been named but the posts were deleted
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In reply to Post #118
Is the product stinky stuff not hormone based feed lure ???
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Like Lance Armstrong, will anyone be stripped of their gold medals 
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In reply to Post #116
completley agree - I think the damage has most certainly already been done - Hearsay, gossip and rumours have spread like wildfire - whether through agendas or a genuine interest in the welfare of angling.
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In reply to Post #115
TBH the damage has been done anyway now, whether they did it or not!
Just think about it, unless this gets cleared up the guys mentioned will have all of their catches totally discredited. That seems unfair to me in the absence of proof.
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In reply to Post #114
No single person is going to admit it, there is no governing body, no dope test😂
Can someone prove it?
Im sure I could probably travel abroad and pick it up at a vets without much trouble
The dust will settle , everyone will know who and what
Im not picking on an single angler, but when good anglers are catching nothing and someone’s
catching one after the other , moving to the next water and doing it again and again 🤭
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In reply to Post #113
Have to agree mate, really hope it’s all a load of over exaggerated rubbish. Got a bad feeling about it all though.
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In reply to Post #112
Also praying it's all BS mate because lets face it, if it's true and this product becomes widely used it's a justifiable reason to ban angling.
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In reply to Post #108
It was Hassan’s questioning on the podcast that really made me wonder. They clearly felt that something unusual had happened as part of the haul on Bluebell and Church lake, something beyond simply good angling.
I still haven’t got any idea what’s going on and still hope and pray that it was all down to good angling and a special (non dodgy!) bait edge. From what I recall from the Nash podcast he did flat out deny using hormones so we have to take that at face value.
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The fish will readily take hook baits when aroused but not actually partaking so to say, which is what seems to be implied here with regards possible hormones and their effects on the fish.
I had fast repeated action many years ago fishing away from the main spawning area but on a shallow patrol route with a blatant pop-up, seemed the fish rather than swim around it just tried to eat it in their aroused state, it's not something I ever repeated.
I do hope the rumours are not true as I think it's a step too far.
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In reply to Post #28
Is he from cc moores
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In reply to Post #103
Be interesting to hear what a behavioural phycologist makes of that bit..
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In reply to Post #107
You're just speculating. You've decided he's guilty and not afraid to slate him about it.
He's one of the best anglers around. He catches more than most, always has.
If it turns out to be true I'm with you, until then you'll not see me condemn him.
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In reply to Post #105
yea but what can provoke that sort of behaviour in carp. no normal natural additive liquid bait is doing that, its completely unnormal the hits these boys have compared to others. Hope I am proven wrong and it is some super natural harmless additive that none else knows about that they have figured out.
But lets be realistic its not is it 
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In reply to Post #99
I don’t have social media either; but 2 nights ago I got a text from my barbel fishing mate (I’m not carping at the moment) asking if I’d heard about these rumours. He knew more than me….
He probably asked/told me for 2 reasons:
1. If true, it brings specialist angling into disrepute
2. He knows that I have a ticket for a water where this may have been going on……(but I haven’t been fishing it).
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In reply to Post #103
I've watched it. He said he'd never heard of the products. Yes he looks sheepish but when someone asks about my edges I probs look exactly the same.
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In reply to Post #102
it may not come out ever but watch their catch rates plummet next year
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In reply to Post #101
mmm I think if you watched the Nash tackle podcast from 2.28 hrs in and see his reaction. Id have to disagree.
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In reply to Post #100
But nobody actually knows the truth..
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In reply to Post #97
Who exactly will "brush it under the carpet to protect the big companies and high profile anglers"?
I've not seen Kev hint at anything tbf. He said he'd never heard of these hormone products.
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In reply to Post #99
This is HUGE, forgot about the fish catching. Its unethical , dangerous and damn right cheating for financial gain and notoriety. Takes everything away that's left which is good in carp angling.
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In reply to Post #97
You say shatters, I don’t have social media, I’m guessing this is all getting blown up more than ten or twelve guys on a fishing forum that 0.01% of angers will read?
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In reply to Post #88
This could be true; the fact that these guys are simply using yellow (visible) plastic and catching pretty continuously leads me to assume that what is being fed in to attract the fish is not a food item. They have dropped their guard mentally and will pick up literally anything and I bet their is little food available in the swim.. Possibly the whole spombed bloodworm thing was that the liquid from the bloodworm was a carrier?
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In reply to Post #94
It will probably be brushed under the carpet like everything does these to protect the big companies and high profile anglers. All that really can be done is to ban all use of hormones in fishing by law, if you get caught then the EA ban you for life. Kev is in a bit of a pickle because he has come out and strongly hinted at it. Although not admitted it his reputation is in shatters and if the companies have any sense they will take away his sponsorships... Its whether he takes anyone else down with him.
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In reply to Post #94
This really is a sad state of affairs - If this substance has been used then it will now take a strong person to hold their hand up, considering the amount attention this has now got and the ramifications it could potentitally have with of any sponsors / bait comapnies they and reputation.
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In reply to Post #94
That’s just about bang on 👍🏻
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In reply to Post #88
I agree with this. I have listened to the pod cast, read the paper posted and done some research (albeit it google based) and i get the impression that the hormone is what brings the fish together at the start of spawning. The receptors on the fish have evolved to pull it to the biggest concentration of the hormone to give it the best chance of breeding.
I would suspect that an altogether different hormone will trigger the desire for spawning. Im guessing that they turn up sense that there is no opportunity for spawning and the hormonal reaction in the fish is to rebalance their "agitation" leads to a feeding response. In human terms - went to the boozer for a few pints of stella, got the Dutch courage to go on the pull for a bird, realised there were none about so got a kebab on the way home
My suggestion would be for all the leading bait companies to come together as one voice and say "right, we know what happening and we are pretty certain who has been doing it, first to come out and hold there hands up and spill the beans keeps his sponsorship's, the rest are going under the bus".... if some of the people's sole income comes under threat there will be a scramble to survive
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In reply to Post #92
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In reply to Post #91
Hey, we've all been there... Sounds like the grafton back in the 70s
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In reply to Post #90
I thought it was the males that chase the females. Which is why it's not good to have more male fish than females. Especially young males chasing big old females.
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In reply to Post #88
Excited males release a hormone that attracts the females.
But like a can of Lynx Africa at weatherspoons on a Friday night.
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In reply to Post #86
When I listened to the carp chronicle podcast and read the paper from Australia that has been posted on this forum I thought that the suggestion was that the reaction to the hormone was cheomoreception and did provoke a feeding reaction although I do not understand the science. With regards to attracting the males again not understanding the science I understood that the presence of the excited males attracted the females.
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In reply to Post #86
well Kev does refer to not getting mix right in the podcast, when there were fish there but not feeding.. so that implies both are used. People cant even say its bulls*t, just got to watch the podcast and put 2 and 2 together with the hormone theory.
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In reply to Post #85
Drawing them in s one thing but would they be feeding...
Fish don't really feed when in that pre-spawning mode, just obsessively chasing. And if its a female based hormone surely it will only attract males?
Maybe this "attraction hormone" is being used with a "feeding response" hormone too.
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In reply to Post #84
If it is Prostaglandin F2 Alpha in question, then id throw the book at any guilty parties, its going to come out lets face it. Sorry but you cant be putting that stuff in lakes. Hope they get what they deserve. Unethical and dangerous. And we know its not nonsense, that Nash podcast says it all, although he didn't say what it was Kev basically admitted to using something that NO ONE else does. and his results point to what sort of 'edge' that might be, referring to them being drawn in by it , especially shallow waters.
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In reply to Post #83
Agree 100%
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In reply to Post #82
The substance mentioned previously will be the synthetic chemical in a carrier allowing for precise dosage in the relevant target species, not for dosing a bucket of slop and bloodworm 🙄
Unfortunately in all forms of life there will always be people willing to push the boundaries, with little thought for the after effects etc.
Will it signify the end of all record rod caught species in the UK? I get the feeling if it blows on for much longer and gets more coverage it will. Personally I’d like all tackle/bait manufacturers to get together and speak out about it in public and threaten any of their team members with dismissal if found to have used it.
Just my twopennorth
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In reply to Post #81
I think you're barking up the right tree, though the synthesised version is approx £45/10ml...
Tis a sobering thought, to think if it has been used in the ways suggested that the very basis of modern day ticket and competition carping would be discredited beyond belief, along with those alleged to have deployed this tactic, along with respective backers/sponsors/ venues etc....
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In reply to Post #78
If this is the chemical I believe it is, I’ve read 2 scientific papers about its effects and usage, both US based, one dating 2011 and another 2017, both using the said substance to lure carp to baited area to evaluate stock density with a view to culling/ eradication. The chemical is produced naturally by lots of aquatic species, but in nano pico amounts. So actually using it effectively in an angling situation would be at best hit and miss, if a “certain angler” was using it in a video, the drone footage proved that although it had worked for him, he had got the level too high etc hence fish circling but not feeding.
As for cost, you are looking at around £850 plus vat for 10mg!!! That’s 0.01 of a gram…..
I suppose if it “guarantees” a win in a match with a big payout, you may deem it necessary if you have very little in the way of ethics/scruples.
As for Team England, I do like Rob Hughes but coming out with a statement denying its use does remind me of UK cycling’s Dave Brailsford just a little. Just waiting for rumours Lance Armstrong being spotted coming out of Angling Direct with a full set up…..😂
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In reply to Post #79
Your kind of right, the one is the synthesised version of the other 👌👍
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In reply to Post #78
I don't think that is the compound that has been suggested. Others have said it's a compound that is used (in some places, banned in others) on other animals but not in the aquatic environment where it has an untested short and long term effect.
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In reply to Post #61
This is nothing new, the hormone in question has been used in Australia for years. It is implanted into caged fish, using osmotic pumps, which release the hormone over a period of weeks. The caged fish attract large numbers of others which are the netted/ electro fished for removal as an invasive pest species.
Readily available from both UK vets and offshore active pharmaceutical ingredients companies.
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In reply to Post #76
Who cares ?
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In reply to Post #72
Who appointed him England Manager anyway, I don't remember voting or is it self appointing?
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In reply to Post #72
I'll have you know he's a trained lawyer, who ever heard of a dodgy lawyer?!
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In reply to Post #71
The three names in the rumour mill all work for different bait companies I believe, so not sure how that would work.
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In reply to Post #69
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In reply to Post #70
Is Rob Hughes keen to poo poo the hormone angle because it would rubbish the british carp team and he earns some money from that
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In reply to Post #68
I believe these components that have been spoken about have been patented for the use in bait.
This patent is supposed to expire next year.
All rumours, but maybe somebody is testing to prepare for a launch when it is free for all?
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So there been a few names banded about practically accusing them of using this stuff. And on the other hand Rob Hughes makes a statement on facebook categorically saying this is all a loud of bull and no one is using Hormones in there Angling.. Who do we believe?? To be honest I think the answer lies somewhere in the Middle..
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In reply to Post #67
Its certainly served me well over the yrs mate and i put alot of that down to my angling skills
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In reply to Post #66
this is true lol
but rumours can be nasty, and if its true, im sure someone could get hold of this wonderbait and get it tested
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In reply to Post #66
Was it TnM is the best bait ever?
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In reply to Post #62
You realise your asking for solid facts from hairy arsed carp anglers. Tbf I did see a solid fact on here. Think it was jan 2015
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In reply to Post #63
there is now
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In reply to Post #62
Since when was there ever a fact written in the bait section?!
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In reply to Post #61
right lads...ive been away on business for the past few days,,,
having read these posts, i think its time someone provided some solid facts before this thread gets deleted
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In reply to Post #60
Readily available with a veterinary prescription.
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In reply to Post #58
I thought it was hard to get hold of. The stuff I have just seen on the podcast thread is readily available
Thing is IF this is real then so many other names now flying about that some people will try anything and god only knows what cocktail of drugs the lake now has to survive!
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In reply to Post #58
There, wasn't so hard was it?!
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In reply to Post #57
Its been named in the podcast thread, thats the product name that i have seen going around.
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In reply to Post #56
Agree 100%. You can't ban it if know one will even name it!
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In reply to Post #55
Why not? If it's going round private groups ,and is as questionable as it sounds, it should be named publicly so that action can be taken if needed or even possible. All the hush hush nonsense going on at the minute isnt helping at all. Or maybe those in these private groups you speak of are using it too and don't want their edge taking away, or their ethics questioned . The secret squirrel stuff isn't a good look if there's nothing wrong with it. It looks like those who know are trying to hide it, probably because they know it's wrong.
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In reply to Post #51
It doesnt need naming on here, i have seen it posted in a private goup and twice had it sent to my by pm.
It wont be long until its common knowledge and then every bank tram and his mate will be on alibaba looking for a dodgy supply route.
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In reply to Post #53
Surely nobody except those using it know then? And at least if the possibilities are named they can be looked into ? And that way all the speculation can stop, and the people in question can be held accountable for their actions, or the fanboys who say it's just because they are great anglers can be proved correct. Can't see all the secrecy around the whole situation helping whatsoever
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In reply to Post #51
because unlike some i have never claimed to know what it is
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In reply to Post #51
Does make me laugh. All of this talk about a hormone. Literally thousands of posts across all media platform yet not one person has named it as a definitive. A few have been mentioned by people that have worked with reproductive hormones in carp but only on a “if it’s xxxx then you’re sicko’s” basis.
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In reply to Post #50
Why don't you name it then?
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In reply to Post #49
The substance claimed is a regulated substance which is why naming it should alert the manufactures and/or suppliers to double check their supply chain as it clearly is failing at the moment.
All the time we just whisper it among ourselves the current supply path will remain open and the abuse of this material will continue.
Many laws are impossible to police in the real world but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try does it
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In reply to Post #48
Not sure how you can police this - unless it is regulated substance and then it should come back to who is supplying the substance to the persons involved.
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In reply to Post #47
I agree with you 100%, question is how can this be done?
There have been some extraordinary catches on Farriers for instance, a wonderful lake with some fantastic fish, but no one has made it look like a runs water until recently, even Darrell struggled at first, and took advice from some regulars that helped him get some bites, but seeing the results others have achieved does make me think 'what are they on'?
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In reply to Post #46
Totally understand its not currently controllable but does not mean one shouldn't try and control it. I can think of many things that are banned/illegal in life and yet practically un-provable.
Don't get me wrong I hate rules for the sake of rules. I have walked away from fishing trips because, in my view, the rules of a lake were ridiculous. But in this case the potential widespread damage it can cause possibly warrants the rule IMHO.
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In reply to Post #45
Herein lies the problem, it is not controllable; exactly like the EPO use in cycling, if you weren't involved you simply couldn't compete against the guys that were, no matter how much training and effort you put in. If this is a reality in current day carp fishing then it won't be controllable by the fisheries, and going forward any 'big hit' will be viewed upon as being suspect whether it is genuine watercraft / angling skill or otherwise which is another concern as that is unfair on the anglers that do well.. All of this is secondary to any potential environmental impact of course.
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I still think it needs naming. I understand what some say about 'if you name it people will search for it' but right now they ARE searching for it and finding all-sorts to chuck in anyway and and who knows what levels! As some have said the alternatives they are finding are possibly even worse for the lake and its ecosystem 
How is a lake/club/syndicate supposed to ban it if they can't name it? I can imagine some trying to come up with a catch all wording like 'no liquids or powders with hormones or steroids to be used'. That's great but as an example fresh liquid liver can contain some hormones naturally and how many of us have used, or still use, liquidised liver?
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In reply to Post #43
people been using "the additive" in carp matches in europe making good money for years now... looks like finally somebody spilled the beans in uk as well.
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In reply to Post #42
modern day ones you mean
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #40
Anglers. Not angling
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In reply to Post #40
It does sound like you’re trying to find out what it is so you can use it wac. Sure, there’s been times after a run of blanks in the middle of feb that I’d sell my bottom to a Michael Barrymore pool party to catch one, but really? If you are that desperate, there’s plenty of overstocked puddles that you can go to.
Its not the end result that matters, its the chase……
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In reply to Post #39
no wonder angling is held in such low esteem
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #37
Or to look at it another way 90% of carp are put into water purely to be fattened up and caught until they die.
Not sure anybody can take the moral high ground in the great scheme of things.
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In reply to Post #37
Unfortunately, the days of ethics, etiquette, integrity, scruples, sportsmanship, to name a few, have dwindled to a trickle
Sadly, so true
Thank God I can still find some peace and quite away from the circus that carp fishing has become 
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In reply to Post #36
Chris :
Those FEW using it are in it for :-
1- Financial gain via carp matches
2- Fame (Sponsorship/Social Media)
3- As you rightly say, "Catch at all costs" mentality.
Unfortunately, the days of ethics, etiquette, integrity, scruples, sportsmanship, to name a few, have dwindled to a trickle 
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In reply to Post #34
If that is the case and It is so dangerous why the **** are people using it
The answer is simple = catch at ALL costs
Environment is number 1
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Is the new magic ingredient Rohypnol
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In reply to Post #33
Before you go any further This substance is LETHAL AND NOT TO BE USED IN ANY FISHING SITUATION WHATSOEVER !!!
Listen to the Carp Chronicles Podcast thoroughly, before even thinking of Googling hormones for carp.
This substance is ILLEGAL in the wrong hands, and ONLY available for licensed professionals who have absolutely nothing to do with fishing/aquaculture.
DON`T EVEN THINK OF TRYING TO SOURCE OR USE THIS HIGHLY DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE, OR YOU STAND TO JEOPARDIZE CARP WELFARE ON A SERIOUS LEVEL PLEASE AVOID AT ALL COSTS !!!
This is NOT the Holy Grail, and could potentially wipe out the stock in the lake 
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In reply to Post #32
Carp Chronicles Podcast on it now.
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In reply to Post #31
I generally require two 😂
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In reply to Post #30
You can make that hormone with one hand tied behind your back.
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The only way i found to successfully make a hormone, is by not paying
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In reply to Post #24
Sounds like a porn movie 😂
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In reply to Post #27
There is a patent from Mr Moore discussing pheromones as carp attractants in baits/feed.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7335349B2/en
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In reply to Post #26
Really interesting and backs up my theory.
However the clever bit that someone has devised is using these pheromones in a fishing / baiting situation. I haven't figured that out yet.
We are at least getting closer
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In reply to Post #25
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pestsmart.org.au/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/06/LimSorensen_Final.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjfkI7d3YbzAhXR4KQKHUajCIkQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1Qmwz7My-weqnmDGfv7rZD
Have a read
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In reply to Post #19
I think it would sit well in your range Gav…….The Herb and Hormone 😎
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Heard it was an oestrogen blocker used in abortion pills ?
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In reply to Post #20
Collect the 1st wee of the day of a pregnant women, my wife wasn't up for that so I can't say wether it would work or not.
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In reply to Post #10
Not sure on the exact spelling but hypothese is the hormone that should do that, too much and it will turn them on, literally. The right amount and it will just attract carp into the area,
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I heard it was human lady hormones being used.......quick Kit Kat and then touch your hook bait.......
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In reply to Post #17
The good news is that’s it’s very hard to obtain and very expensive. So if you see someone who is minted and well connected and he’s hauling……….he’s probably on it 😂😂😉
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In reply to Post #17
I doubt anyone with the ability to obtain it would pass it up
I wouldn’t as I enjoy suffering 😂
It’ll probably blow as they are using it at high levels 👍🏻😂
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In reply to Post #14
Granted some who know about it are not using due to ethical considerations but there are definitely people using it with success who don't hold the same view.
I can't see how a ban will make a difference, how can you police that on any water?
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In reply to Post #15
The product was rubbish
Certainly was
This one sounds like it works though
Like mentioned though, I guess we are on the verge of catch at all costs but I suppose we could say everybody has their own little edges
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In reply to Post #1
Would not be the first ,there was a product called " Ultra Bite " launched with massive publicity different ones for different type of fish.
Hi flying Anglers endorsing it saying how marvellous it was .
one very well known angler was sent it and could not catch a fish with it on , a friend of mine used it iin a match ,only stared catching when he stopped using it .
Well know angler said he could not endorse said product ,was sent a cheque for £15000 to say how good it was ,he sent it back.
The product was rubbish but it ran for a few years ,with many anglers saying they caught this and that with it .
Then it was sold to a international lure company.
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In reply to Post #12
You have got the wrong end of the stick. The people who know are not using it at all because they don’t agree with it. I’m sure it will all come out eventually.
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In reply to Post #12
It just shows how desperate some are to catch at any cost, its very sad
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In reply to Post #11
As I've written this is all I know and from reading literature on the web and bits of information here and there.
I don't know the actual product these guys are using.
Everyone who keeps it quiet obviously does not want it banned.
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In reply to Post #10
Do you know what would happen if a large group of fish turned up? would they try to spawn again or all go into a crazed feeding mode?
From the snippets i have heard and i dont know the full details i personally think this is totally wrong to even go down this route it is not the holy grail and should be banned
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In reply to Post #6
The hormone liquid is used to attract the fish into the area. The fish arrive thinking they will find other fish to start spawning. There is obviously no other fish around as the hormones have been introduced by the angler. This liquid has been used near to your baited spot, the fish get agitated and feed instead, and you catch. That's my take from various people who given information.
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In reply to Post #7
The day fishing is guaranteed is the day I quit!
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In reply to Post #1
I soak all my baits in Old Spice, it worked for me in the 80's
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In reply to Post #6
I understand what you're saying. However if someone has found the Holy grail which everyone has been looking for, and it's going to be banned. We may as well stop all research into bait and go back to sweetcorn and luncheon meat. It's a bit like saying if someone invents a rig that is 100% garuanteed to hook every fish that picks up the bait fair and square in the middle of the bottom lip. It shouldn't be allowed.
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In reply to Post #5
I do know what this hormone does and I do understand the basic science behind it. But it’s not my secret to tell and I’m a man of my word. When you do see it in action and understand what is happening you will see why it’s gonna be banned. I like an edge just like the next man but I think this one is too far
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In reply to Post #3
I don't understand why hormones in a bait eould make a carp more likely to eat it. Does anyone know the science. If any, behind this?
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In reply to Post #3
The minute it’s out it will be banned. It’s not really ethical in my eyes
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In reply to Post #1
If it’s what a few names are rumoured to be using then I doubt it’ll ever be released.
It’s only available from a vet (with a prescription), and I’m not sure it’s something we want to be using in fishing. I certainly wouldn’t.
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In reply to Post #1
I’ve heard of things that mimic hormones
Let’s hope it’s not true
Don’t fancy carp nagging me and bursting into tears😂
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Can anyone confirm the name of the Hormone that is mentioned in the latest Carp Chronicles pod cast?
There is loads of whispers of this with loads of people using it, from what I can gather it is a liquid form.
A few people in the industry admit its something that will come out very soon?
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