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In reply to Post #78
Any advantage using the powdered version instead of liquid butyric acid ?
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In reply to Post #77
Oh yeah 100%
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In reply to Post #76
Nah you get away with a lot more than that.
Best thing to do is mix however many drops you wanna add into 5ml MPG or Glycerine, sort of shields the egg. You can also add once the paste is sort of like a batter.
We use about 20g in a 2kg wet mix pop up run, that’s about 38/40 eggs. I never go over 1% of wet mix though, I find it misbehaves after that.
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In reply to Post #74
 Oh god 3-4 drops would start to cook them. Mrs always said it smelt like puke / bile on me after using it
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In reply to Post #74
It’s fine after boiling.
Before boiling sod that 😂
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In reply to Post #73
2ml of butyric would cook the eggs Binding 
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In reply to Post #72
20-40 drops of butyric in a pot of finished baits is ok? That’s 1-2ml. Seems awfully high considering of 4 drops is added before boiling. Or is this due to the eggs not binding?
Cheers
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In reply to Post #71
Not sure mate. Been using it for acouple of years now and this is my go to, whenever a pure pineapple flavour profile is needed. 
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In reply to Post #69
I haven’t touched that stuff for probably 10 years if not more!
Is it the same as it once was?
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In reply to Post #69
extremely popular, to be fair its an incredibly nice smell, not that I think carp smell in the same way we do, would be nice to go home smell of it instead of hydros lol
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In reply to Post #68
Mainline Profile Plus Pineapple Juice
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In reply to Post #51
Which Mainline pineapple flavour were you using?
They sell two different types.
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In reply to Post #66
Apologies, I was over tired last night, thought I was responding to a thread on a bait post ( facebook) regarding garlic oil. interesting tip with the bi carb I shall try it
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In reply to Post #65
I’m talking about the smell. Neutralise the acid, neutralise the smell. It does work. Soap will only mask the smell. It’s not only carp anglers who use carboxylic acids and an alkaline paste is the general cleaning solution.
Swarfega is for oil and grease so certainly would not work.
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In reply to Post #64
Tried that, its not irritation Its the smell, bicarb doesn't touch it. it will fade of its own accord all you can do is mask it until then
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In reply to Post #61
Wash your hands with a paste of bicarbonate of soda. It will neutralise the acid and help with the smell. Soaps and perfumes will only mask it.
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In reply to Post #61
😂😂😂
Yeah, even swarfega doesn’t touch the smell of butyric,
Just about the only thing you can do is sit with your hands in the sink, with damp hands lathered in a heavily perfumed soap for ten minutes. This masks it somewhat. Albeit it you’ll be far better off going with latex gloves next time. Unfortunately it transfers like anything so if not careful everything will smell of it
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In reply to Post #7
Are Latex gloves better than Latex free ?
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Does anyone know what months of the year its good to use, ie, when would you start using it ? is it any good in spring ? etc, etc .
I just bought some and had a sniff yesterday afternoon, the smell is still on my fingers and all i did was open the bottle , and the utility area is stinking of the stuff !
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In reply to Post #59
Well it was two elderly couples, both widowed now. Can confirm neither said much being dead and all….
Also full disclosure it wasn’t the butyric that killed them 👀
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In reply to Post #58
10kg!
What did your neighbours say when they moved out? 
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In reply to Post #57
Even in bulk it seems pricey ( last 10kg lot I got last year was about 130 quid delivered ).
Regarding purity of it has the word pure, the CAS number and stinks I think it’s probably good lol, not that I’ve used the nutrabaits one.
Regarding other acids I’ve never had a truly in-depth play with propionic acid, a whiffy number also, but a bit less vomitty. Think the furthest I went with it was diluting into solution and trying on some floating trout pellets a year or two ago, had some further health issues since then and can’t seem to find any notes!
My favourite acids are generally butyric and citric, very strong feeding reaction from fish to both.
I’m noticed citric to have a very symbiotic sort of effect with DMPT in hookbaits
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In reply to Post #56
18 euro for 100ml
Prices of chemicals are driven by their purity.
I assume the butyric acid sold by nutrabaits doesn't has a purity +99%.
Literature suggests that butyric acid, citric acid and malic acid are functional toward triggering interest of carp.
They all have in common the low chain length, C4, C5 and C6.
Anyone had a spin with acetic acid (Vinegar), formic acid or propionic acid?
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In reply to Post #55
Those prices make me feel northern 
Good spot though, first time I've ever seen that!
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In reply to Post #49
https://www.fishersci.be/shop/products/n-butyric-acid-99-thermo-scientific/p-4228973
Fisher scientific sells it as n butyricq acid
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In reply to Post #53
As he mentions mainline I’d assume “high leakage” indicating their ready made shelf life range 
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In reply to Post #46
What's HL referring to guys?
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Butyric acid has many synonyms. N butyric being one of them. Nothing to do with Nutrabaits. There is an isomer. I wonder if any flavourists have tested to see if there is any difference in attraction between the two.
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In reply to Post #46
Used both versions to see if it was actually down to the flavour itself, or other variables coming into play, using two different basemixes. The originals straight out the bag(Mainlines) accounted for cirka 60/40 split for bottom baits, compared to my basemix. For popups, the split was almost even, but both outfished the other competitors.
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In reply to Post #49
Because it sounds more special. Although for once its actually correct….
Strange no one calls caproic “n-caproic acid” tho
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In reply to Post #47
I do find it strange that it’s mentioned though, it’s never sold in the chemical world with the N infront at least I don’t see it from my sources who are pretty comprehensive with their labelling. I understand butyric is a straight chain acid but have only seen it sold with the N in fishing circles ?
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In reply to Post #47
Correct!
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In reply to Post #45
Unless you’re going to get into chemistry, it means its a straight chain molecule, rather than a branched one. Clearer? 😂
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In reply to Post #43
Possibly a silly question, but we’re you just using the Mainline flavour in your baits or were you using it in their ready rolled HL baits?
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In reply to Post #44
I’m as thick as a bible when it comes to that sort of stuff. What does the N actually mean?
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Isn't the original question more about the level in hookbaits. Nothing new saying you can use higher levels in hookbaits vs loose feed. I'd happily go to 40 drops per tub of pop ups. It's readily soluble and only a single hookbait.
I've worked in a lab for 40 years and can access most chemicals. NBA (C4) does appear to be good. In my earlier years I played around with other acids, C5-C8 , N or branched but never seen a great improvement. But catching just a few carp hardly proves anything scientifically other than nothing jumps out as special to me.
Nutrabaits have caproic acid which is is n-C6. Higher the C number, the lower the water solubility so higher use rate possible.
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In reply to Post #42
Data from 4 different anglers, rotating on different venues
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In reply to Post #40
What was the test to get such an accurate percentage reading of the outcome?
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In reply to Post #40
It’s because of tge cool little oval bottle.
I just remember liking the smell, a lot juicier than most of them. However I put my faith more in naturals that flavours just because I’m a firm believer that big carp know what food is the same as big people do….
Or on that note maybe the fatty carp aren’t fussy at all? 😬
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In reply to Post #39
Funny you say that about Mainlines Pineapple 
I´ve tried & tested RH Pineapple Supreme vs JB Pineapple vs Catchit Pineapple vs Vital Baits Pineapple vs Nashbait Pineapple, and the results were astonishing to say the least. Surprisingly took Mainline a firm lead, and accounted for 85% catch rate, with the rest sharing the remaining 15%. Mainline HL Pineapple definately has something very interesting in that recipe, and stands out above the rest, in EVERY lake i´ve visited.  That´s both bottom baits and popups
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In reply to Post #37
Who’s recipe did ya steal? 😂
Yeah so my uncle in a chemist and has access to a lab, but I’m not putting him through that for some pineapple lol.
I’ll just pay a hacker to find out mainlines pineapple juice recipe lol be cheaper than buying all the components!
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In reply to Post #37
That's only one of the possible formulations. Each flavour house can have multiple variations on it.
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In reply to Post #36
why everyone is still including the N in its name I don't know lol.
It just seems N-ormal nowadays  
1 Allyl hexanoate 10.83/wt%
2 Allyl heptanoate 10.69
3 Allyl cyclohexanepropionate 4.72
4 1% Ethyl 3-methylthiopropionate 0.15
5 1% Methyl 3-methylthiopropionate 0.17
6 Ethyl butyrate 0.29
7 Isoamyl acetate 0.31
8 Isoamyl butyrate 0.79
9 Ethyl acetate 0.14
10 Sweet orange oil 8.70
11 Lemon oil 0.75
12 Citral 0.02
13 γ-undecalactone 0.63
14 γ-nonalactone 0.64
15 Vanillin 1.57
16 Maltol 1.82
17 10% furaneol 0.26
18 Ethyl hexanoate 0.13
19 Ethyl heptanoate 0.67
20 γ-valerolactone 0.23
21 γ-hexalactone 0.21
22 γ-heptalactone 0.01
23 Acetic acid 0.01
24 1% Methional 0.01
25 Pineapple base 2.50
26 Ethanol 40.7
27 Propylene glycol 13.05
28 Total 100
All that for pineapple Better start calling it n-pineapple 
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In reply to Post #35
It likely will if its one of the ester based pineapples!, ethyl butanoate mainly, but also methyl butanoate and butyl butanoate
We make it all the time (for fun, its cheaper to buy pure), ethanol and butyric acid form ethyl butanoate however you cannot accurately gauge what butyric % is left without lab testing every single sample. you can always tell it as there is a bit of a back note though.
Think John Baker, Solar, CCmoore, etc who have ester pineapple flavours, its usually but not always one of those three, and certainly ethyl butanoate seems to outperform the others in terms of stimulating an investigative response from fish, although this could be the residual butyric acid.
As for finding out before, they'll usually say if they are blending in butyric post production. however its always worth adding a little more as its extremely soluble. you'll struggle to overdo it in a workable paste.
Quite why everyone is still including the N in its name I don't know lol.
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In reply to Post #1
Before you start adding NBA to your pineapple flavour, make sure if possible, to find out from the manufacturer if that flavour already has a certain amount of NBA in it already
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In reply to Post #33
Yes, done 2ml without problems, can be an overwhelming odour and will come through the pot quite a bit is all
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In reply to Post #13
I was going to ask this, has anyone tried added say 5 or 6 drops to a pot of pop ups afterwards and letting it soak/dry into the pop ups?
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In reply to Post #30
if stored correctly many years
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In reply to Post #26
John Baker plum and N Butryic go very, very well togther
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glad this thread has started as im about to buy some, not sure on the amount to buy, so does anyone know the shelflife of N-Butyric Acid?
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In reply to Post #28
If I add 5 drops to a fruity popup will the acid smell be really strong when the baits are finished? or is it mainly during the cooking and mixing process is stinks?
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In reply to Post #27
Agreed... its f'ing stinks!
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In reply to Post #26
a pure butyric acid flavoured pop up will outscore most flavoured pop ups, but then the "secret" flavour is out and companies cant claim the next wonder ingredient.
Pisses me off its so good, we use loads and you never I repeat NEVER get used to the smell. I must of handled the best part of 100 kilos of it last year, I feel like I paid an emotional price for every damn gram of it lol
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In reply to Post #25
Unless the flavours are compatible with the butyric acid you could be wasting your money. I don't have the knowledge you need but I'm sure someone like John Baker or. Jason Ryder would know.
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How would one go about making a spray for popups using NBA and the flavours in the hookbaits?
What basemix for popups does everyone find most bouyant?
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In reply to Post #22
That’s confused me Ken. 4 drops in the mix then the equivalent of 40+ drops in the finished pot of baits?
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Thought we could save a few steps and mix the liquid additives together in a bottle, a one dose sort of deal as opposed to multiple….butyric acid doesn’t like certain products and my god what a mess 😭
Never had one manufacturer I’ve bought from called it N Butyric, think tge N was a nutrabaits thing?
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2ml in a tub of pop-ups should do it for you.
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In reply to Post #20
Ok thanks. What about adding it to the pots after the baits are rolled?
Any opinions on mixing citric and butyric? Do I need gloves when mixing this up or not?
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In reply to Post #19
I seem to remember the original NB dropper bottles were 24 drops to 1ml.
So maybe go up to 6 to 8 drops, see how it reacts in the mix, up it from there, if you feel the need, or are single, or the missus is out of the kitchen. LOL !
As some have already, too much NBA in your eggs could/can cause rolling problems in some mixes.
Trial and error I’m afraid.
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In reply to Post #18
It’s the Nutrabaits butyric
Use either on its own at up to 2ml per 500g mix or at half that level with the flavour or essential oil of your choice.
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In reply to Post #17
What do the manufacturer labels recommend dosage wise, for a 1lb mix for n-nutyric acid, and the black pepper oil ?
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In reply to Post #16
I’m putting together a few high attract hookbaits. Thinking of adding 4 drops of n-nutyric acid per egg before boiling. Is it worth adding drops to the pot of baits after air drying and how many drops?
Is it worth mixing citric acid and butyric together? What would be the doses benifits and drawbacks?
I also have black pepper EO how many drops per egg? Its a high quality oil, and is it worth adding drops again to pot after drying and how many?
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In reply to Post #14
I once inadvertently doubled up on the acids(butyric/caproic/citric and malic) and EA flavour in a hookbaits mix, ( answering phone etc, who says us blokes can't multitask?) mixed and rolled the baits fine, got around to boil them, thought the water had suddenly gone bright orange, went stir them and they had all dissolved! Just glad I hadn't invested time in rolling corkballs otherwise the kitchen would now be orange and smell of butyric and mulberry florentine 🙄
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In reply to Post #13
That’s what I’ve always done with NB. Added it to the air dried corkballs....and more added as required.
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In reply to Post #12
Well I’ve ever had a problem with binding and I have used high levels of N-butaric
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Surely flavours and things like N-but will be fine adding afterwards anyway. As some will be boiled off
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In reply to Post #11
It matters because the eggs wil not bind
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In reply to Post #4
Does that matter if its just hookbaits ?
I doubt it
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In reply to Post #9
Could this be used in making my own boilies aswell
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In reply to Post #8
Feedstim's is very good. Best get hold of it through Baitwize now or the shipping costs will be astronomical!
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In reply to Post #7
Thanks who sells a version you can trust?
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In reply to Post #1
4 drops per medium egg is what I use when making hook baits, although I've never combined with a pineapple flavour (way too obvious)... and I bet everyone who does, dyes the bait yellow... sorry, couldn't resist, but you know I'm right... anyway, it of course blends really well with all sorts of attractants. I always wear latex gloves when hand rolling hookbaits and keep the kitchen door open! Stinks the house out and then some. Carp love it though , so worth a moan from the missis now and again. Used it in most of my hook bait mixes for the last 25 years.
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In reply to Post #5
Same with essential oils or alcohol flavours
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In reply to Post #4
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In reply to Post #3
Too much acid denatures the proteins in the eggs
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In reply to Post #1
Echo what has been said. I had tried it at 10 drops in past, turns the eggs to water and difficult to bind.
Fished one water with said bait and watched one of the biggest residents just hung over the top of the bait for a few minutes with its barbels hung straight down, interested but wouldn’t touch it. All confidence blow. Amazing what goes off in the lake 
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In reply to Post #1
3 to 4 droplets is sufficient
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Hi guys,
Anyone know the levels of NBA per one egg mix to go alongside a pineapple flavour and sweetener?
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