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In reply to Post #32
I keep a pair of cutters in my tackle box specifically for hooks that look like the will be difficult to remove. If it doesn't move from a touch with forceps, then the hook is being cut.
I think the last fish I had to cut a hook to remove it was back in 2009, when a long shank hook went in, and the point was sticking out and round after hooking in the mouth. The hook was effectively stuck in position, so far less damage to cut the shank as far down as possible and gently pull the point and bend out.
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In reply to Post #34
Totally agree with you mate it's not the hook it's the angler using them trying to bully them in
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I think mouth damage has a lot more to do with the way people remove the hook and play the fish rather than anything else.
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all i use is longshanks even on choddys, and i never ever get mouth damage
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In reply to Post #23
Gerry has it spot on in the majority. Normal straight shank Longshank hooks are much less of a problem when it comes to damage potential, but the long shanked curved patterns such as the Longshank Nailer, Fox Series 5, 360 patterns, etc do have the tendency to double hook should the fish be on the smaller size or have smaller mouth's due to the way the hook has a larger radius to rotate around if the hookhold become loose on a slackish line after netting etc in the same way a traditional bent hook can. This is the reason I always have a pair of side cutters in my unhooking kit as the same can happen with standard hook patterns also (although much lesser risk).
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In reply to Post #29
There’s some pretty big fish out there with small mouths, and some doubles with huge mouths.
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In reply to Post #29
Please explain?
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In reply to Post #26
your completely missing the point >>>>>>>>>>>>>its the SIZE of the mouth thats important mate
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In reply to Post #23
Agreed 👍🎣🇫🇷
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In reply to Post #23
A double in a gravel pit is going to have a much tougher mouth than a 30lb fish in a silty water.
Surely your use of longshanks should be water/topography dependant going by your own logic?
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In reply to Post #1
I’m sure you’re right that the way a fish is played can and does sometimes cause extra damage, but think about what happens when a carp is trying to turn.
The hook is embedded in the carp’s lip (hopefully), so the further away the hook eye is from the point, the more leverage and twist is exerted on the hook point.
Add to that an oversize hook relative to fish size, the longer hook shank catching on the net, the increased chance of double hooking that some anglers have witnessed and it’s no wonder that fishery owners often specify limits on hook patterns, sizes, and tackle.
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Hmm, my opinion, I've used Long Shank Hooks since Fox brought them out in the 90's and I've never had a problem with them, but like Gerry has said I think there is a definate issue which I think is due to size of hook to size of fish.
I normally only fish for doubles on the whole, use a size 8, no issues with singles/doubles or bigger, though can slip if a lot bigger (as can any smaller hook). Abroad where I expect the fish to be bigger I fish a size 4, again no issues.
I do think Long Shank can cuase problems if used incorrectly, as for the super LS, curved or straight, I wouldn't use them.
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PESONAL CHOICE !
I will only use long shank hooks now on waters where the average size is over 30lb no **** will convince me that a long shank hook in double figure fish does not cause damage ..............as I know it does !! and there is no advantage just disadvantages IMHO
but in big fish it dont happen though ?
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In reply to Post #1
Never had issues with long shank hooks personally.
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In reply to Post #20
I Agree at least cut the hooklink or remove with a quicklink
I’ve had crimps catch on the net to be honest
Longshank hooks can and do get caught in the net
Got to applaud cutting the hook 👍🏻
Just comes down to each individual judging what’s acceptable
Remember it is a hook and it can damage the fish
I’m sure I’m not alone when it goes wrong , fail hooking etc
Leaves me sick to the stomach
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In reply to Post #18
I think it good practice to unhook fish in the net so as to prevent any more mouth damage from the initial hooking and playing of the fish.
I had a nasty instance with a good fish that was torn with a size 4 barbed fang twister that must have moved around the fishes mouth, up until that point an ever since it's not been repeated. I use the 360 rig a lot, and like Dave Lane don't go to the lengths of melting shrink tube to the eye of the hook, and just like Dave Lane who invented the rig with a friend of his, I too have not seen the mouth damage people harp on about. Not to say damage may never occur, I've yet to see it in the fish I've caught.
As for long shank hooks, not that I use them that often as I prefer to use a long aligner and size 4 fang twister, when I do use long shanks, I've not seen the damage people go on about.
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I used to use longshank hooks all the time stopped because a longshank incizor snapped on a mid double( may have been a bad hook hold) . Then I had a fish double hooked effectively sewing it's mouth shut. This was with a Korda longshank. I now use curved hooks. Touch wood not had a problem with them so far.
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Also once netted hook gets caught in the net , net is lifted , mouth torn .
A lot of the damage occurs on the bank but most won’t admit it .
Another reason I cut the hooklink when on my own to alleviate any damage to hung ups in the net .
I think this is folklore passed by word of mouth and it’s a load of toffee.
Needs more to get off the fence and put this theory to bed .
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In reply to Post #1
I've never had a problem with longshanks when knotless knotted but I've seen bad mouth damage when I've used them ronnie rig style
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In reply to Post #15
Over the years I’ve used B175’s, Longshank Nailors, Longshank X etc. For bottom bait fishing it’s all I use.
I can honestly say I’ve not seen any difference between them and the other hooks I use for zig and pop up fishing.
I do wonder if this is one of these things in Carp fishing that is repeated until it becomes folklore!
Unless it’s just people referring to the 360 rig issues with the net mesh.
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In reply to Post #1
I'm big fan of conventional longshank hooks - like the old KAMASAN B175 type pattern. I like them tied slip d style with a very small shrink tube kicker for bottom baits + snowman rigs
I've never noticed any mouth damage that I can attribute to the hook pattern.
Phil
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In reply to Post #9
What’s the threshold for a long shank?
That's what I'd like to know. I was trying to source some Fox Series 1 hooks recently, some packs describe them as long shank and some packs say medium. Even Fox can't make up their mind 
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I’ve got a pack of longshank muggas in my box, based on this thread I’ll get rid of them.
We can recreate the length of the shank on the hook using Shrink tubing Except using a Ronnie or 360 rig so if there’s any truth in this thread tackle companies should stop making them really as they don’t have any benefit over any other hook and there is a potential to cause damage.
Start a Petition somebody
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Used them for years and never had any bother or damage at all .
Mind you when they are hooked they are hooked but I tend to cut the hook with cutters rather than try to retrieve the hook as I think a lot of the so called damage is done on the un hooking .
I’ve seen a lot of reluctant anglers Un willing to cut the hook hence causing minimal damage only a small hole where it entered but pull and tear the flesh to save their hook 😡
Also I use soft rods and play them not pull their heads off .
Let’s face it a lot use powerfull rods on puddles with the must have 50 mm butt ring .
But a lot of more older anglers have rods for all occasions 1 3/4 TC. 2 1/4 TC 3 1/2 TC
Like I say never had a problem .
Seen a lot worse with barbless only venues but that’s another kettle of fish .
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In reply to Post #10
Wow I've never heard of that one before. Do you know what the thinking is behind it?
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In reply to Post #7
Several places I've fished over the years have banned beak point hooks.
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What’s the threshold for a long shank? I’ve found it’s more to do with gape vs shank, small gape vs long shank like the Korda ones will have more leverage and I’ve found they will pull/rip more frequently.
Same with the old carp r us longshank nailers which were probably the ones that kicked off the ban.
Wider gape with a long shank like the newer trig hammers seem to be a bit kinder on the fishes gob but can still be tied aggressively
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In reply to Post #1
All types of long shanks are banned on my syndicate, regardless if straight or curved. But to be honest I've never used them myself.
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In reply to Post #6
I don’t use longshanks as I find they tear but I’m sure it’s more to
do with where you fish, I’m sure others find them great
Some carp have very rubbery lips and others well, don’t.
and it’s down to the individual to decide
I use both curve shanks and beaked point hooks which Ive found more acceptable
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In reply to Post #5
Bit like barbed v barb less debate, upto the venue powers to decide and us to abide.
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In reply to Post #4
Why aren't they banned everywhere then? I've seen curved Longshanks banned... but rarely longshanks.
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In reply to Post #1
Everyone has an opinion but in this case it may only be the opinion of those making the rules that matter.
Obviously the longer the hook shank any sideways pressure is increasing the pressure on the hold as the leverage will increase the longer the shank.
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In reply to Post #2
Not disputing it but why are they any worse?
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In reply to Post #1
I think your bailiff is a wise man and completely right 
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Just speaking to one of the baliffs at our local and he said they were thinking of banning longshank hooks... when I asked him why he said "well, I've seen the damage they have done over the years"
Strange thing is hardly anyone seems to use them on that lake... I'm more inclined to think it's down the anglers and the way they play the fish sometimes rather than the hook... can't see that alone solving the problems of mouth damage TBH
I've used them on and off for years myself and can't remember having any issues, they are normally hooked in the bottom lip.
What are your opinions on this?
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