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I do not understand why the subject of racism is still being discussed in the 21st century. But what discrimination do we want to talk about, when even now when countries are developed, people live pretty well, we face corrupt politicians like Derek Fildebrandt. Even in the most developed country as Canada. Is it a surprise for anyone, or it's already normal?
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In reply to Post #1920
 
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In reply to Post #1919
Depends, lots of people now have massive flat screen tv's ect that they would never have been able to buy.
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| | | | Posts: 5 |  | |
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Guys, I know it has been more than a year since the riots started, and they have stopped, and it is a very sensitive topic, but don't you think that these riots were kind of pointless and stupid? Honestly, I do not see why they actually destroy all those stores and cars in all those cities. What have all those people done to them?! I think they were controlled very well by someone. I have been talking recently to a lawyer who is a very great expert in racism situations. So, even he said that it was very stupid what all those people have done. I have even used his services recently as I had a trial against a neighbor. Karim, my lawyer, made the case look soooo damn easy. If you are ever going to have any kind of legal issues, you could call for his services. You can find his contacts on karim jivraj website. Trust me, he will not disappoint you.
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| | | | Posts: 5 | | |
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In reply to Post #1441
Guys, I know it has been more than a year since the riots started, and they have stopped, and it is a very sensitive topic, but don't you think that these riots were kind of pointless and stupid?
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In reply to Post #1915
No scozza spends too much time thinking about me. Married people don’t even do that do they?
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In reply to Post #1915
It’s like man and wife Gary, he says he is going out. I tell him what he is really doing 
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In reply to Post #1910
Are you and Scozza married as you don’t have sex but argue a lot 😀
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In reply to Post #1912
That’s the funniest answer I have seen yet....... 
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 |  | |
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In reply to Post #1912
How many trump supporters does it take to change a light bulb?
None. Trump tells them it's fake news and the light is working fine so they all nod in agreement and carry on in the dark
Have a good day fella
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In reply to Post #1911
No because that wouldn’t make any sense
If you’re in a relationship with someone you’d be having a roll around or two. If you’re not then you’re probably doing a bad job of life tbh. I don’t think Trump would comment on how ‘hot’ his daughter was and say he’d want to date her because of her personality.
As much as I’d love to go on about Trump’s incest fantasies I really can’t be bothered. Guys a creep, I suppose if you don’t think that’s creepy then maybe you’re a creep too? Who knows. I don’t really care to be honest.
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In reply to Post #1910
It’s not implied at all and you know it.....
Can Scozza turn around and say he was implying rather than presuming now...... 
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In reply to Post #1908
Like I said it’s implied is it not. Unless you’re happy with a sexless relationship.
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In reply to Post #1908
He likes to think he is clever Wayne, really he is a 
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In reply to Post #1905
Geeki, you pull up Scozza in every post about assumptions.......yet here you are assuming trump wants to bang his own daughter for saying she looks amazing......unbelievable.......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 |  | |
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In reply to Post #1906
Don't get your maga hat in a twist, I think he'll win again in November. Another 4 years of greatness.
Do you live in America, in a mobile home with a rusty pick-up, an aggressive dog and no teeth?
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In reply to Post #1905
what a sick little twisted mind you have jumping on a comment and twisting it Trump is the greatest president America has had in years, trump has done a fantastic job trying to look after the American people GO TRUMP 2020.
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In reply to Post #1904
Implied of course. If he would date her then naturally he’d be banging her wouldn’t he?
Like I said though. Cheats at golf. Zero credibility or respect.
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In reply to Post #1903
I must have missed the bit where he said he wants to have sex with his daughter..........Or he didnt say it at all........
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In reply to Post #1902
Saying you’d bang your own daughter is not being proud of her looks. It’s plain creepy.
If he’s in to his own children then imagine what the rest of his seedy mind is thinking about.
Regardless, how do you respect a man that cheats at golf. 
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In reply to Post #1901
Yeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaa
Geeki, Im sorry but there is a huge difference between DT's Comment and being proud of your daughter and how she looks compared to Sniffer biden and his mates Killary clinton, John podesta etc....... 
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1900
Gaaad bless America
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1897
The land of the free and the home of the brave...
If you are white and armed that is
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In reply to Post #1896
What comments are those Greeki...... 
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Another sorry tale from the US.
13 year old lad suffering from Autism blasted by the police several times in Utah, in a critical condition.
"Speaking to local CBS-affiliate KUTV, Ms Barton said she told the 911 operator that her son needed to be taken to hospital for treatment.
He was experiencing a crisis because it was her first day back at work in almost a year and "he has bad separation anxiety", she said.
"I said, he's unarmed, he doesn't have anything, he just gets mad and he starts yelling and screaming," Ms Barton said. "He's a kid, he's trying to get attention, he doesn't know how to regulate." "
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In reply to Post #1895
If you’re basing a choice for president off how creepy they are the trump surely is not fit for tenure either? The comments he made about his daughter for a start 
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In reply to Post #1894
Biden can’t put a sentence together, smells and touches children at every chance he gets and wants to be the president......great choice.......  
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In reply to Post #1892
They are both as bad as each other, like our choice Boris or magic grandpa, Biden has just stated he’s the man for law and order and will fund it with 300 billion million and Trump is for defunding. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
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I can just imagine some who post on here being alive 90 years ago proudly wearing their little "jack boots " receipting and clinging on to every last word Hitler said in the naive hope that every promise would be fulfilled , these people have always been easy prey for populist leaders !
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1890
Yep. He's a disgrace. Unfortunately there are still too many stupid people who will still vote for him regardless...
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In reply to Post #1890
Fake news .......It’s democrat states causing problems and allowing the rioting.......how far will they go to regain power again...... 
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As the opposing militias groups face each other off in America i wonder how long it will be before the inevitable happens , armed to the teeth and with no police around , should be interesting , this is no coincidence this is being driven by Trump , how far will he push the nation in a desperate attempt to cling on to power !
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In reply to Post #1888
You still reading my posts?
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In reply to Post #1887
...making yourself look like the complete tool you are
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In reply to Post #1886
Like anyone needs your permission
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In reply to Post #1885
You crack on
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In reply to Post #1884
Don’t read them then Or go to a British nationalist forum so there is no one with opposing views to you.
I also couldn’t give a **** if you find it disrespectful 
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In reply to Post #1883
On and on and on and on
It’s turned into a sounding board for your anti British, anti government, anti police and law views. I don’t have a problem with it myself. I just get sick of seeing all the endless disrespectful comments that you keep posting
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In reply to Post #1879
Here we go again with you trying to suppress free speech and denying anyone apart from you can have an opinion
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In reply to Post #1878
He won the popularity vote when he was elected
He sure did, Draining the swamp was his plan and draining the swamp he is doing........Hopefully he can expose the Peado child traffiking ring which is rife through the wealthy politicians and hollywood stars.....
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In reply to Post #1880
You certainly are 
Have a look for the Corbin club or anti government forum
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In reply to Post #1879
some people are very misguided , maybe in denial of the facts ! or just stupid !
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In reply to Post #1876
Agree
Probably better if they joined an anti British, anti government, anti police, anti law forum? possibly find an anti life one?
How about a Jihad one, condemn the western world and lifestyle altogether, infidels!
Forgot, Anti American too?
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In reply to Post #1874
He won the popularity vote when he was elected. I think his policy and antics have upset a lot of people and others are pleased with it. My misinterpretation Jon. What I meant was, I don’t think he gives a **** what people think, he just gets on with what he believes
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In reply to Post #1876
Don’t be so insulting
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In reply to Post #1875
Mostly pages upon pages of drivel and insults, you could say that sounds like the footy thread but it's not half as much fun. I'd swerve it if I were you.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1873
Ffs scozza, he’s there because he won a popularity vote.
You been on the sauce again
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In reply to Post #1872
I think people need to realise he is not there for the popularity vote, he is there to get the job done, Make America great again, good luck with that because they have certainly ****ed it up well before he arrived
Reminds me of Corbin, he couldn’t even get breakfast done
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1871
Well technically his fatherland invaded her native country during the war but they’re both white European.
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In reply to Post #1870
Good to keep it in the family Jon
Your right though, I did forget, watched the documentary on him and how he came to be...
Still, when you are banging a bird like that with a hairpiece like that, things are going the right way, somehow
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1862
You do realise Don and Melania are the same race don’t you Scozza
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In reply to Post #1867
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In reply to Post #1848
This didn’t age well
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In reply to Post #1849
Like a ****house rat Jon, bollox haven't dropped to even think about growing a pair. Embarrassing.
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In reply to Post #1863
To be fair with a hair piece like that and a stunner like her on his arm he must have something going for him, $
To be fair he is marmite though to the Yanks by the looks of it
Massive nation and whole load of problems to sort out, can’t be an easy job especially when it is done under a magnifying glass. We have our version though, Boris, I think he is a lot of a bell end 
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In reply to Post #1862
Perhaps he is just covering his tracks...... 
Funny how nothing sticks to him, lots of noise but no results.......conspiracies I tell ya......
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In reply to Post #1861
Speaking of birds, Trumps is a Slovenian ain’t she
Fancy marrying a foreigner the racist ****
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In reply to Post #1860
Yep, think I will stick to flying solo though Scozza rather than under their wings which should be clipped......
Is it ok to say that or am I being racist? Perhaps I will get call from the RSPB for offending birds.......
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In reply to Post #1859
Conspiracy alright, EVERYBODY is a racist except for Chairman Mal and Geeki. If you agree with them Wayne you should be Ok, probably take you under their wing?
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In reply to Post #1858
Sounds like a conspiracy to me........definitely fake news though......
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Mmmmmmm. The president of America and the Prime Minister of Great Britain are racists, you couldn’t ****ing write it could you
Give it up now, are you really that desperate for a reaction, it’s getting embarrassing
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In reply to Post #1856
More fake news....... 
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1855
Quiet. The grown ups are talking
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In reply to Post #1854
Fake news......
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In reply to Post #1853
But you also say Boris isn’t racist even though there’s video and written evidence that he is.
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In reply to Post #1852
Rubbish.......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1839
Hiya fella
Another example of an ugly underbelly in the US
All made worse by the most openly racist president in history.
The footage is damning and the subsequent verdict more so. But trump will find a way of making it a different problem because he knows his audience includes that nasty racist element
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In reply to Post #1850
Just another Tory U turn Jon, that’s all.
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In reply to Post #1849
Some things needed saying, then removing as I don’t wish to start throwing insults like yourself at every opportunity.......
American riots are here to stay and will get much worse as the US elections get closer. forget BLM as this is far bigger than that now and will escalate around the globe As planned......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1824
Aw wayney, give it all billy big potatoes then edit your abusive post once you've had a nice cup of warm milk and some calpol?
Plant a fruit tree ... go on, grow a pear!
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In reply to Post #1847
Agree. I will be watching out of interest though 
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In reply to Post #1846
And like I said it got off topic so I was bringing it back on topic. If you don’t like that and want to talk about something different why not create a thread for it or pm whoever it is you want to speak to about whatever it is you want to speak about which isn’t relevant to the thread?
If you aren’t interested in America anymore then don’t visit the thread anymore I guess would be sensible.
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In reply to Post #1845
The last few pages have had nothing to do with America, just some Labour biased poster trying to polish his ego over other peoples spelling and punctuation mistakes
If you want to talk about America to Yourself the audience, crack on, I’m sure one or two maybe interested
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In reply to Post #1844
Probably best not to post in a thread about America if you aren’t interested in America really isn’t it
Maybe start an English policing thread?
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In reply to Post #1843
I’m not interested because I don’t know the facts and it’s somebody else trying to paint another picture, in America!
Different here. One thing for sure though, dickheads are dickheads, the world is full of them and somebody has to deal with them, thankfully not me.
Not to worry, the police over here wear body cams so all there interactions are recorded so next time you have a run in, don’t forget to smile
Downside they have to follow protocol, suspended pending enquiries etc. Not good really is it?
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In reply to Post #1842
If it was in this country it wouldn’t be relevant to the thread would it ...it is titled ‘American riots’’ after all.
Of course you’re not interested because you can’t defend it, we expect nothing less from you.
Be interesting to know what this ‘cause’ is you think I have...
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In reply to Post #1841
Just the same as the bull**** that you come out with to justify your cause
No need for a regroup, I am not interested
Was it in this country?
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In reply to Post #1840
Maybe go find it before saying it’s the same as someone with a dangerous weapon
Your assumptions are disproved with the video evidence but I’m not surprised you’re trying to make excuses without even knowing of it
Once you’ve watched the video and done the research let’s regroup.
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In reply to Post #1839
Not seen it?
Probably same as the nut job who kicked off at the metal hospital, all the staff locked themselves in their offices and called the cops, cops came and he was threatening them with a SERIOUS weapon, tasered him to disarm him. Cops have just lost their taser license
Another couple of cops have lost theirs, Young lads / children attacked some people with a sword. Took one blokes head off, cops gave him the Tasor when they have arrived. Lost their license for the time been, strange old world isn’t it 
For every wrong there could be a perceived right?
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In reply to Post #1838
Yeah I sometimes dress up as BJ to look stupid.
Getting off topic now.
Let’s talk about the protests after a mentally ill black man, wearing only underwear and filmed complying with police, was murdered (coroner determined homicide by asphyxiation) by 3 police officers.
I wonder what type of excuses will be made for these officers? Was the coroner wrong? Is the video a fake? Or did they just press his face in to the road and kneel on his neck until he died after he complied with their orders as the evidence shows?
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In reply to Post #1837
Understood mate. You don’t do PMs, you just like to look stupid in public
Sorry, couldn’t resist
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Imagine having to PM because you’re too scared to talk publicly. Or call someone out publicly. Or be made to look silly publicly.
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In reply to Post #1835
Perhaps he can book in with Gary linekar........
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In reply to Post #1834
Don’t worry, they would all vote him out when eventually everybody had to sponsor an immigrant
I will sponsor Jon, he lives here there and everywhere by the sounds of it
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In reply to Post #1833
Corbyn took them so far left the likes of spanky don’t even realise........that’s why he lives above a kebab shop thinking he is untouchable.......proper wrong un.......
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In reply to Post #1830
The true colours of all these hard core Scroungers Labour supporters is coming out Wayne. God I hate politics
If my family could hear me now taking the piss out of labour 
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In reply to Post #1831
Woof woof.......
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In reply to Post #1830
You wanna be my poodle !
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In reply to Post #1828
Go on spanky........well ard you ya grooming ****
He don’t know how to PM Scozza.......all alone then......just how spanky likes it.......
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In reply to Post #1823
No PM at all from Wayne, no need
I have quite a LOT of PMs about the goings on, on here though
If you have a problem maybe drop him a PM instead of trying to blind us all with your superior English and intelligence 
Is that why you live in Italy, blind them with your intelligence or is it cheaper than the U.K.
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In reply to Post #1823
He's a bobshi*e , we all know one , every pub has one ,they usually get filled in every other week !
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In reply to Post #1825
....... like Magic its gone......
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1824
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1824
Ta - dahhhhh
Careful wayne ... you'll snap a crayon if you're not careful.
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In reply to Post #1823
Love you too sweet cheeks.......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1822
Ickle wayne send you a pm to back him up?
Excellent stuff.
My problem with wayne is his constant wanging on that Covid 19, that has killed 3 people I knew, and about a dozen relatives of mates of mine, doesn't exist and is a scam. If me winding him up about his spelling gets on his tits, then the poor lad should read what he's written before clicking.
But if his mates want to step in and back him up ... on a forum ... crack on, it's not me looking a daft bast'd.
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In reply to Post #1821
Anytime Braveheart
Am gunna start postin in broad Yorkshire so tha may need an interpreter. Like I said, don’t try pulling Wayne all the time to try and belittle him and polish your altered ego. The mods do the moderation on here King Jon
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1815
If you're following US writing conventions, its spelled. If you're following UK writing conventions, its spelt.
Carpforum, English, job done
You sure this is a game you want to start Scozza?
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1815
I’d take spelling lessons with a pinch of salt from pages with moody punctuation. 
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In reply to Post #1818
You behave yourself
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In reply to Post #1815
*British
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Quite a bit of the "We" about. Could be the Royal version I suppose. Pretty sure it's the usual imaginary gang gob***** version though tbh.
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In reply to Post #1814
When we need a headmaster we will ask the mods for one, now **** off fishing
If you're following US writing conventions, its spelled. If you're following UK writing conventions, its spelt.
Carpforum, English, job done
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1813
Wrong again Wayne. I've only got a problem with badly spelled bull****.
I'm off fishing too.
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In reply to Post #1812
Sorry, meant kids and not specifically me as I’m sure you do it to most people........gives you a greater feeling of superiority and knowledge I suppose when you can write the English language so well.......
Laters.......got doors to hang and fish to catch...... 
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1811
you like picking on the kid with poor spelling
Awwwwww .... never had you down as a snowflake wayne
Kid? How old are you? If you're a minor I take it all back and apologise unreservedly. 'My bad' as you nippers say.
Sometimes your spelling is ok, sometimes it's not. Sometimes you're writing, sometimes you're pasting stuff written by Russian bots and idiots from god-knows-where that you've found on the internet. Don't expect me to figure which it is which before laughing at you. Suck it up or get yourself a proofreader.
Unless, I repeat, you're a kid with poor spelling, in which case I apologise for any sarcasm you may have endured.
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In reply to Post #1810
I was going to send you my IBAN seeing as you like picking on the kid with poor spelling and then try turning it around when found out........ 
As you were libtard....... 
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1809
Keep up wayne, I was mocking your anonymous cabal of secret supporters who back you right up but won't post on here for fear of .... a sarcastic comment from a libtard? Right ho.
Seeing as I don't know and have never met anyone who posts on here now, I really wouldn't be that surprised, or interested who they are.
Your gang is definitely bigger and harder than me though. Please supply your IBAN and I'll forward my dinner money as soon as I can.
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In reply to Post #1808
You would be very surprised who there from.......
Mock my English all day long if it makes you feel a bit better Jonny boy........
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1807
....we already know you can’t think for yourself by your posts and the PMs I get.....
Are they from bb or joe average?
'Down't alow him too wynd you up wayne, we no the troof and our write behind you'
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In reply to Post #1805
If ya can’t stand the heat, then get out the kitchen.......
How surprising Jonny boy.......we already know you can’t think for yourself by your posts and the PMs I get.....
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1805
the Wayne stream media.
 I'm nicking that!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1804
Ah the Wayne stream media.
Available in print on a toilet wall near you...
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Deep state Democrats are destroying there own cities in the US under the BLM movement, should be ashamed of themselves
Hopefully DT can make the Americans see this and how there being played........
Failing that send in the army and clean the streets up........
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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So...
A good article that charts the 100 days since george Floyds murder.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/100-days-death-george-floyd-18614625
Worth a read.
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In reply to Post #1801
Like I said. Watch the video and come back to the convo. No point until you’ve seen it is there because your questions are answered within the video evidence.
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In reply to Post #1800
So he never went out intentionally to murder people you say. But did murder people you say. He is 17 and was fleeing you say but wasn't in fear for his life you say. Why would someone do that? Have you got a video to explain this double murder mindset? Or are you filling in the gaps with guessing?
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In reply to Post #1799
I never said he intentionally went out to murder anyone. But he did intentionally kill 2 people whilst he was out. shooting someone is likely to result in death or serious injury, aiming at any part of the body, especially the head.
I suggest you watch the videos, brave people tried to apprehend him unarmed. one got shot through the arm at point blank range after flooring the killer. Bit easy to guess when you havent even bothered watching the evidence isnt it.... exactly what you told me not to do
We will carry on the conversation once you've got up to speed
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In reply to Post #1798
Trying to stop him fleeing the area? Unarmed civilians after watching an execution by assault rifle you say? Very unusual. I'd be surprised if he was legally allowed to carry a rifle in public at 17.
You may be right he just went out to murder people during a riot, which as I've said before causes people to protect their property. Look how the Korea Town population did it in LA 92. All sorts happen in a riot where the population are legally armed or awash with weapons.
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In reply to Post #1797
There’s literally a video of him shooting an unarmed man in the head and then running off shouting that he’s just killed someone. He also shot and killed another person and injured someone trying to stop him fleeing the area. It’s all documented in videos and pictures. There’s no guessing going on there. I’ll have a guess that you haven’t watched the videos though.
If you’re scared for your life when you’re the only one armed then should you really be allowed to carry a gun should you? If you didn’t intend to kill why would you aim at the head?
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In reply to Post #1790
Lawful homicide does exist it the USA regards members of the public via stand your ground laws etc.
How do you know they were unarmed? How do you know the 17 year old knew that? How do you know he wasn't in fear for his life?
Time will tell and he'll be judged by his peers with all the evidence available. Not by people having a guess.
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In reply to Post #1795
My knickers weren’t in a twist. Oh look 24hours later the facts are there.
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In reply to Post #1791
Guys been charged with first degree intentional homicide. Guess it was murder wasn’t it. Got your knickers in a twist for nothing.
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In reply to Post #1793
No NHC this year so to make up for it let’s have a BLM March in London that you no is going to go tits up.
Just won’t be any annoying dancing by the po po or extradinary outfits from the parades or floats. I bet the residents are glad no one will be pissing on their doorsteps! 😷😷😷
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1791
Unless the war itself is an illegal one of course. ..
But if your name is Blair you'll probably be ok...
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In reply to Post #1791
I know how you feel mate but trust me, he is not worth it
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In reply to Post #1790
Murder is all about intent otherwise manslaughter, unlawful killing, misadventure.
Lawful killing is used in war.
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In reply to Post #1787
Lawful killing doesn’t exist though does it? Unless it’s the death penalty?
People are dead, murdered at the hands of others for reasons unknown so far. Firing at unarmed people, you know what you’re doing, the intent to kill exists.
If it’s classed as terrorism as you say then it is murder isn’t it? I’m sure when terrorists killed people here it was classed as murder straight away without the full facts?
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In reply to Post #1788
Like terrorism, the bigger the outrage, the more people in power take notice. Sad but true. Pretty straightforward to stop it, stop the injustice, perceived or not. No fuel no fire.
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In reply to Post #1785
I still cant understand what arson, riot and violence does to further the cause of the injustice?
Why burn, loot and destroy your own community causing hardship and depravation.
The quotes from some of the leaders and participants of these scenes that "businesses have insurance"
Most major businesses will have insurance. But some small ones won't and what if its taken years to build that business up and employ local people and the owners just cant be bothered to put all that effort in again!
The biggest losers in all of this will be the working class, getting along people, of any colour or religion, who are not interested in politics, don't have interactions with the police and survive day to day.
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In reply to Post #1786
Cause it's cobbler's.
You do need the full facts for a conviction/accusation of murder.
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In reply to Post #1784
Because we don’t need full facts to know that two people have been murdered during clashes in America. A sad fact of the rioting whoever it was that’s ended up dead and one seriously injured too.
Can’t imagine why a statement is met with so much hostility from people
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In reply to Post #1784
There's over 20 unsolved murders from the LA 92 uprising over injustice. Facts are hard to come by in riots.
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In reply to Post #1782
I haven't assumed anything or insinuated anything.
Its not a race to post on here, why not wait for the full facts?
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In reply to Post #1780
That's what happens when you riot in a country where the public are armed. People protect their property and rightly so during a break down of law and order.
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In reply to Post #1781
I don’t quite get your point? I merely stated an update on what’s happening. Didn’t say much else apart from what is known so far.
I assume you’re trying to insinuate I’m saying it was anti BLM or whatever that committed the murders?
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In reply to Post #1780
Like the idiot the other night from the protesters who pointed a handgun at the press and then fired it fortunately not loaded.
Stupid people on both sides who are getting more wound up by the sensationalist media!
Just like you "details yet to be released" why not wait for the details?
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Looks like two murders and another seriously injured last night in the protests. Armed shooter firing at unarmed people. Details to yet to be released.
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In reply to Post #1777
Tbf I had you pegged as one of the tit vote spammers.
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In reply to Post #1776
I’m on it Wayne
To be fair Mal can hold a decent debate and conversation. The other has a brain about the size of a chicken so I like to feed him some corn
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In reply to Post #1775
Keep up the good work Scozza......
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In reply to Post #1774
Don’t you worry chairman Mal. I will be here pulling the Daydreamers Snowflakes if I need to
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1773
Not while there's still thanos and the red skull to defeat eh captain Rogers?
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In reply to Post #1772
Never
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We done guys.......
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In reply to Post #1770
Yeah it is. You think the SAS and the police are the same thing
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In reply to Post #1769
No, because I am not entertaining an idiot for fun any more, getting a bit embarrassing
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In reply to Post #1768
Because they’ll not fit their own criteria for being allowed in to a debate
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In reply to Post #1767
That’s it from me, your welcome to the last words. Like I said earlier, never argue with an idiot because...
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In reply to Post #1765
OoOOOo your hARd
I had a big bloke start on me once, guess I’ve been in that situation so I can comment
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In reply to Post #1762
Change the subject why don’t you. Not going to comment on the fact you haven’t been a copper so don’t fit your criteria anymore now I’ve bumped your statement? I’ll ask my mates missus who’s a copper and then I’ll be just as qualified as you to comment I guess won’t i. Second hand information and all that.
Can give a donkey grass but they’ll still eat wood
P.s. I’ll await the basic attempt at an insult.
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In reply to Post #1764
nswer me a question. Have you ever been a copper and been in the situations they have?
There a key word there “they have” not I
I was in the SAS woof woof
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In reply to Post #1761
Apparently we can’t say as we wish because we haven’t been coppers
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In reply to Post #1761
He is easy Wayne, easier than a dog with a bone. And don’t dis the dog, they can be quite clever
Woof, woof
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In reply to Post #1759
You see, like I said, I get to know everything that goes off. The reason I bumped this back up was that I knew exactly what had gone off. That’s why I asked the question I did and as expected I got the response i expected from you snowflake
Lover of the law
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In reply to Post #1760
Don’t be so literal Greeky.......your like a dog with a bone on a forum where people can say as they wish, even if that winds you up........
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In reply to Post #1758
Nothing to disagree on. It’s a fact chris said you can’t comment unless you’re a copper and been in those situations. He isn’t so he doesn’t fit his own criteria. That’s an indisputable fact.
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In reply to Post #1670
nswer me a question. Have you ever been a copper and been in the situations they have?
Answer - No you have not so best not to comment on something you do not know anything about
I’ll just leave this here for you so you can see the criteria you set. That you don’t fit yourself
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Agree to disagree guys or it will get locked and Mal won’t be able to share the love no more.....
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In reply to Post #1756
You claim that but your criteria for having a say was if someone is or had been a police officer. You’ve already admitted you haven’t and arent. So you don’t fit your own criteria.
It’s honestly not that hard to understand, not for most people anyway.
If your criteria was “if you’ve spoken to a police officer and know what goes on then you’re allowed entrance to this debate” then yes you’d fit it. And so would I. And anyone that wanted to speak to a copper and ask them questions.
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In reply to Post #1755
Like I have said dopey. I know exactly everything that goes off, all the juicy bits.
You know **** all, that’s a fact for you
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In reply to Post #1754
Says the guy that can’t fulfil his own criteria to enter a debate
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In reply to Post #1753
Debate that with yourself
You really are an idiot aren’t you
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In reply to Post #1752
Your literal argument was that No one that has never been a copper can comment. You also haven’t ever been a copper so you can’t comment either, by your own admission.
Don’t think it’s me that looks a fool here bud. You can’t even fulfill your own criteria for having a say in a debate
I know you’re going to hate looking foolish and come back with a some base level Response, but it’s okay, because we never expected any more from you.
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In reply to Post #1751
You look like a proper cock don’t you, difference is I know you are
I know exactly what goes off, can’t you get that into your thick crust?
Where as you know what I said before not a lot
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In reply to Post #1750
You’ve not experienced it though. That was your point wasn’t it, that I hadn’t so I had no right to comment apparently. You haven’t experienced it so you have no right to comment either.
The irony of it all eh. I know a few people with coppers in their families so I hear things too... so I’m just as qualified as you then. Or we are both unqualified.
Absolute
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In reply to Post #1749
Considering I get to know what goes off on a daily basis you could say I know a hell of a lot more than you?
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In reply to Post #1748
So you’ve experienced what coppers go through the exact same amount as I have then...
Suppose that scuppers your argument of only commenting if you’ve experienced it doesn’t it
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In reply to Post #1747
My other half is a copper. You wouldn’t believe what I get to hear
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In reply to Post #1742
Didn’t know you were capable of making a funny tbh. Not having lived the life of a comedian you can’t know for sure that jokes aren’t just a fantasy from la la land.
Wonder when you’ll come back to reality and tell me about that time you were a copper.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1740
you guys need to know when your being trolled or when I’m serious.......you guys can’t do that though so don’t try and speculate without facts......
You sound like Trump trying to distance himself from his bleach injection idea by saying he was being sarcastic.
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In reply to Post #1744
Wrong thread spanky ......
Edit - your forgiven......
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Sorry , wrong thread , in a hurry to go and enjoy the 1/2 price meal deal thats going to get the economy booming
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In reply to Post #1741
Does that spill over into fishing posts.......
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In reply to Post #1741
Sounds like me with you. I have finally realised that you cannot be serious otherwise you would be an absolute joke
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In reply to Post #1740
Like I said, just how it reads. I never called you one, just answered ocelot on your behalf. Tbh I never know when you’re serious or not so don’t read too much in to your posts.
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In reply to Post #1739
Got ya......oh well that’s me told ay......
One thing though.......I would have to take all this **** seriously for you or notalot to call me a hypocrite, you guys need to know when your being trolled or when I’m serious.......you guys can’t do that though so don’t try and speculate without facts......
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In reply to Post #1738
Well I’m assuming that’s what you’re asking if he feels better about after he voiced his opinion about you being a hypocrite.
Seems like ocelot picked up on the fact you are not happy about following laws around coronavirus but expect everyone to follow every word a police officer utters. At least that’s how it reads given your previous posts around coronavirus being a lie and a conspiracy theory and to disregard it.
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In reply to Post #1737
Care to expand Greeky......
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In reply to Post #1736
About calling him out for being a hypocrite.
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In reply to Post #1735
About what?
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In reply to Post #1734
........feel better now ocelot......
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In reply to Post #1733
Your posts show you can't be arsed following UK laws and regulations. Maybe Australia and Canda won't take you but I reckon you'd be nailed on to get in the US. Don't worry about the door smacking shut on your arse on the way out, there's a role for gangs of coward's with weapons and strangulation skills out there clearly. You'll fit right in.
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In reply to Post #1728
Their Law enforcement......do as your told, same as masks wearing.......
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In reply to Post #1731
Have a look in General Carp chat before it disappears from page 1. Right up your street
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In reply to Post #1730
Don’t look at many customer service threads as have a few places I’m happy to buy from and stick to them so no need. Which thread is it. I’m intrigued now.
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In reply to Post #1727
Have you missed the thread where terrible customer service is going on by the way? Thought you and your mate Lord Charles would be right on that being champions of the consumer and all that. Or does that cape only come out for marks regarding bait?
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In reply to Post #1726
Did Breonna Taylor not do as she was told?
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In reply to Post #1726
Coward's in uniform appear to be above the law in the US wether you listen or not, ask Aussie Justine Diamonds family. While theres apologists and hand wringing excuse makers like yourself even law abiding people are at risk from the police.
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In reply to Post #1725
Keep Them coming. One day you’ll twig that your insults mean nothing to me.
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In reply to Post #1722
People in the US should learn to do as there told by the law enforcement agency.......but since BLM erupted lots now think their above the law........
Oh well......get ready for another **** storm here rather than focusing on the biggest child trafficking ring by the rich and famous being exposed.......
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In reply to Post #1723
As long as you and me do not agree thats fine
If we did that would mean i was an idiot too
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Btw just seen the video. Not sure why the cop didn’t take the guy down to stop him reaching the car door. He had him by the shirt already.
Bit excessive when there was 4 cops there that could have restrained him and stopped him walking to his car and made an arrest.
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In reply to Post #1721
Apparently we aren’t allowed to agree to disagree. Scozza says we all have to agree with him or we live in a fantasy land
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In reply to Post #1715
One of the most cowardly things I've ever had the misfortune too watch from a police officer.
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In reply to Post #1720
Everyone has there take on the world and what’s going on.......think this thread like others should be wrapped up as we agree to disagree.......
.......scozza.......
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In reply to Post #1717
Not sure how an explanation of why the threads keep running is drivel but okay then.
No one telling you to go away, just pointing out you have the option if you so desire. I quite enjoy some of the conspiracy theory stuff you post tbh.
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In reply to Post #1718
So that’s how your fantasy land works is it
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In reply to Post #1717
Keep popping them in Wayne, he is anti British you see, he feels oppressed by our country's values and beliefs because they do not match his and he feels out of place, bit uncomfortable with it all, likes to vent his frustrations on here, angry man. Same with his love of our law and the police service
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In reply to Post #1716
Same drivel greeky, think I will stick to popping in with the odd comment to amuse myself.......far to serious for my liking these things.......
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In reply to Post #1711
Didn’t think they did spill on to the carp sections? Not that I’ve seen anyway.
It’s new content coming to the fore what sparks related debate or fresh debate. If you want the threads to be finished why post new content in them to spark debate? You were very guilty of that when talking about the bbc proms were you not?
Suppose as the saying goes, you don’t have to read the threads or get involved if you don’t like them.
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Just seen a video of a guy getting 7 bullets in his back in the US.......blatantly ignoring the police request to stand still......reasonable considering he was back in his car and could have produced a gun and shot them.....
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1712
Absolutely. Agreeing to disagree is fine. It comes with maturity.
But then so does wisdom and respect for others I guess
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In reply to Post #1712
Correct bob, it’s political threads or bait threads that descend into name calling bollox......Ban them all I say!!
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In reply to Post #1710
Nothing wrong with the majority of threads in Non Carp it's been here since the forum was formed.
But we need to adhere to the rules
You'll see they are not draconian and there is leeway for debate, vast majority of members seem to get it just a small minority on these type of threads who don't. I've probably been guilty but just lately have tried to rise above the insults.
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In reply to Post #1709
Problem is these threads spill over into the fishing threads.......
Debate is fine, but when it’s been debated for 3 months and insults are slowly creeping in why bother?
Edit - Greeky, spanky only posts in here, would be best off on a labour forum, Mal posts the odd comment in fishing threads so may as well be on hippy, perfect world snowflake forums and yourself should be on a forum for arguing continuously even if it’s just you on there.......
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In reply to Post #1706
Suppose that’s why it’s in the non-carp section of the forum. May as well remove the section so it’s fishing only.
I don’t know anyone that posts on here that only uses the non carp section either.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1708
Trying to silence those you disagree with and deny them an opportunity to share their views?
I thought that was what right-on woke lefty student types did Wayne.
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In reply to Post #1707
Ban all these threads.......
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In reply to Post #1704
Not many anti BLM on here, most people support controlled immigration, people just have different opinions on it.
If people can't settle their difference of opinions after countless attempts then maybe it's time to talk about fishing instead
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In reply to Post #1704
Doesn’t look that way though does it Greekski.......if you use the forum with the sole purpose of posting on non fishing related topics you may as well post on forums where the topic is something your passionate about.
I openly admit I like to wind some of you up because it’s not fishing related.......perhaps political, BLM type of threads should be banned........just like UCN or Jim Shelly threads.......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1704
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In reply to Post #1702
Remember this is a fishing forum. Not an anti-BLM, anti-foreigner, nationalist forum. There’s plenty out there where you could go to post about your views too
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In reply to Post #1702
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In reply to Post #1700
Perhaps you should join a BLM forum Mal.......take spanky with you too........
Remember this is a fishing forum, not a utopia, snowflake BLM forum.......loads out there you could join and preach too......
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In reply to Post #1700
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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Given the start point to for discussion on this thread was a man dying because he was choked to death by police officers the comments advocating 'choking out' and 'a knee on the neck' are at best distasteful and increasingly just disgusting.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
But you won't be because giving a toss about others means you're a snowflake and you couldn't cope with that.
Carry on complaining about the proms you jokes
I can see why people bin this forum off.
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In reply to Post #1698
Interesting
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1695
Long distance legend. Could be a tool but I’ve never met the bloke
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In reply to Post #1696
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In reply to Post #1695
Oooo your hArD
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In reply to Post #1693
Who’s that then Jon?
Was he a total bellend too
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In reply to Post #1693
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1689
I think Mal is right mate. You are the Haile Gebrselassie of internet debating
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In reply to Post #1691
.......excellent.
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In reply to Post #1688
Apparently it’s back on now Wayne. After negotiations it will now be played by a Jamaican oil drum band
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In reply to Post #1689
Would if I could........Australia won’t have me though.......
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In reply to Post #1688
As some of you on here once said to me... if you don’t like it here why don’t you just leave?
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Has anyone else seen the BBC is anguishing over whether to play “rule Britannia” at the proms........this country has become a snowflake infested gutless piece of ****!!! Utter ****ing joke..... 
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In reply to Post #1684
Because these Joe Average type of people can't be arsed to post it gives those with opposing views on here a false sense of being in the majority
I agree. I like to ridicule the snowflakes for them
Sticks and stones may break my bones but choking me out calling me names won’t hurt me
Take it easy Bob
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In reply to Post #1684
Sad thing is tinhead, everyone has every right to feel how the feel about every subject. Read back and you’ll see I’m not the one telling him how to feel about it. It’s him telling me my opinion is wrong...in fact all of them are...because he it’s not what he knows..
It’s a sad and that’s my opinion on it. I pity the narrow mindedness of it.
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In reply to Post #1682
Your assumptions make me laugh. You don’t even wind me up or make me angry in the slightest, you just make me laugh at how sad you are. (I also feel bad for those that have to be around you too, as I said below)
I already know how you feel about those subjects because I can read and process things. I also never asked to know about them AGAIN. You on the other hand clearly aren’t capable of reading, processing and if you fancy it, responding with a proper response.
Have fun in fantasy land...
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In reply to Post #1683
And with at Chris may I make a suggestion and let someone else have the last word.
I get what you're saying and I reckon there's many on this forum that agree with you but they rarely make a post on here because they can't be doing with the inevitably name calling and personal insults. Because these Joe Average type of people can't be arsed to post it gives those with opposing views on here a false sense of being in the majority.
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In reply to Post #1681
I’m going out again now.
Like a bloke once said to me years ago, never argue with an idiot, they will try to bring you down to their level and try to make you look an idiot
We are going down this route now. Feel free to read my posts again. Don’t do anything silly though
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In reply to Post #1681
You certainly are, all 40 odd pages of your drivel
If you want to know how I feel about BLM, read below and refresh yourself
If you want to know how I fell about a cop dealing with a horrible ****, read below and refresh yourself
I’ve been out most of the day. I hope you have not been sat at your keyboard in anger waiting to type a response, that is pretty pathetic isn’t it
Have another read
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In reply to Post #1679
Sad sad little man
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In reply to Post #1676
Not bad that king Jon. Must have took you a few weeks to come up with that one. The irony
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In reply to Post #1678
You make me laugh. Why because I don't agree with you and the bollox you keep spouting. It's there for all to see, crystal. If only everybody agreed with you and saw it your way.
At least Mal does
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In reply to Post #1676
being black isn’t his life experience so black people don’t exist/are wrong/are a fantasy/come from dreamland...
Neither does anyone else... we are all fake. It’s just Chris and his family alone in the world.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1676
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/burns-and-scalds/treatment/
for info in case anyone should need it
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1670
Answer me a question. Have you ever been a copper and been in the situations they have?
Answer - No you have not so best not to comment on something you do not know anything about
Try replacing the word 'copper' with the word 'black'. The needle on my irony meter's just bent.
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In reply to Post #1674
Again, you have no idea what my life is, you assume I don’t know what they deal with on a daily basis. You assume everything and disbelieve facts.
Living your life on assumptions is why you’re a sad little joke
Edit - to respond to your edited posts. No I’ve not been a copper. Have you?
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In reply to Post #1673
Don't forget the question that I answered for you in the previous post, time to reflect
I know first hand what they deal with on a daily basis. You don’t. Your views are based on your personal ethics, not real life scenarios
Easy to pass judgement when the facts are unknown. Bit like my opening post was trying to prompt on this topic
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In reply to Post #1672
A difference in opinion it is not. That’s when you just have a different opinion on something.
You disbelieve anything that isn’t what you’ve experienced. You said it yourself. That’s not a difference of opinion, it’s saying others are wrong because they don’t hold your opinion.
Still, you never did explain by your life experience counts but no one else’s does. Not properly. Just some wishy washy crap. Probably because you know you can’t answer it with any logical explanation so restores to more dribble.
Anyway sad man, have a nice day, just remember no one else will experience what you do today so it must mean whatever they do instead is wrong and not real
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In reply to Post #1671
Yep, we are different, thank god eh
It’s called a difference of opinion snowflake
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In reply to Post #1670
So for you, if other peoples life experience doesn’t match yours, they are wrong and don’t know anything?
So a refugee is wrong and hasn’t experienced a horrendous life, because you haven’t experienced living in a war torn country.
So anyone living outside your life is wrong because it’s not your life.
^^ that has just proved to everyone that you’re a joke. And you did it all by yourself.
And this is why no one actually takes you seriously.
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In reply to Post #1669
I think my thoughts on the subject are quite clear, below.
I think the feedback from you is typical of the idealists you are, bit of a daydreamer and does ring true with what I know. To be fair, that pattern is all the way through this thread
I’m going out soon, be back for some more fun later
Answer me a question. Have you ever been a copper and been in the situations they have?
Answer - No you have not so best not to comment on something you do not know anything about
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In reply to Post #1666
Answer me a simple question if you have the brain capacity.
Why is it okay for you to go on your life experience but I’m not allowed to go on my life experience?
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In reply to Post #1667
Your full of ****. That’s why
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In reply to Post #1666
I repeat - you sad little man
Nothing to say because you can’t face facts.
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In reply to Post #1665
You keep spouting crap from your bubble daydreamer, I find it entertaining if nothing else
You look like a proper tool
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In reply to Post #1664
See... you can’t believe the truth. Because it doesn’t fit your agenda. It’s true, it happened, if you don’t believe it then I don’t really care. That’s your issue not mine. ALSO it’s course not cause. Just so you don’t look stupid in the future.
Funnily enough I’m not trying to force my beliefs down your throat. That’s what you’re doing to everyone else by saying you know best and no one else does
Maybe if you took your head so far out of your own backside and cleared the shiit from your ears you’d be capable of using your brain to understand what people are talking about instead of assuming and imagining things in your own little world and arguing with yourself over your own fantasy created points.
I genuinely do pity you. I know it’s dark up your own ar*e but you couldn’t see past your own nose in daylight.
What on Earth goes through your head that says “I go on my own experience, and other people don’t, so I’ll just accuse them of living in a fantasy world like I do”
Honestly it’s just plain sad. I feel sad for you that you live your life like that. And sad for those around you that have to cope with you.
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In reply to Post #1663
Cause you have. Let’s hope you can talk yourself out of your next confrontation lol
I only have these thoughts towards the snowflakes like you, the commentators on life ethics, the dreamers
Two words: unconscious bias
I can see yours clearly. You see, you won’t force your beliefs down my throat because my beliefs are completely different to yours. You believe what you want, I will follow what I’ve experienced
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In reply to Post #1662
You always make yourself look so silly when you have no comeback to a post, so you post dribble.
Who said ive never had to deal with a big bloke trying to fight me? Just your imagination assumes I haven’t. I’ve just told you I’ve had a knife held to my throat and words meant everyone walked away unharmed. But of course you assume it’s make belief because you can’t cope in your small mind that words can actually work.
You’re a very very sad man, I genuinely pity you if this is how you live your life and the attitude you have towards others. Hopefully you can get some help for the wild imagination and assumptions you have.
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In reply to Post #1661
See, the things that make me laugh about people like you are, you are just a commentator, and your talking about situations that you, in your bubble, have never had to deal with. Real life, not fantasy. Daydreamer
It’s easy isn’t it
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In reply to Post #1660
Naive about what? You assumed I’m naive and don’t think bad people exist, and what the police have to deal with, and that words solve everything. I never said that. Just that that officer using a choke hold is wrong.
Rest your imagination created to try and have some form of argument with yourself.
P.s. I’ve had a knife held to my throat, words meant everyone walked away unharmed. So funnily enough it does work
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In reply to Post #1658
Morning snowflake
It surprises me to be honest that people like you are so naive. Still living in the bubble?
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In reply to Post #1648
Because I’m not interested in doing the job Much rather do something I’m interested in even if it’s for less money.
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In reply to Post #1657
Funny that your automatic response to people thinking a police officer trying to choke a suspect out, is that we think words sort everything and we don’t think there are bad people about.
No one ever said anything to that effect. Your brain just doesn’t work well enough to understand what you read
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In reply to Post #1656
Daydreamers the snowflakes mate. They have absolutely no idea of the reality, everything is nice and fluffy
No such thing as violence, extreme rage, drug fuelled or steroid rage and wife beaters, a few nice words can defuse anything.
Next time somebody kicks off with you and try’s to smash your face in, remember - Can you stop that please, it’s not a very nice experience for me
Even when they have hit you or assaulted you. Remember - Can you please stop that, it is not a very nice experience for me
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people slagging off the police really don't know what they are on about. being in the police is not just walking the pavements in uniform..
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In reply to Post #1654
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1650
Apparently Mal looks similar to his acting days but with a little more volume in the Barnett lol
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In reply to Post #1652
Im a bit heavier than I was back then but yeah im OK with number 6
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1650
oops - my bad
I just take ownership of any snowflake related insults these days
You're fine with point number 6 though right?
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1649
I never gave a percentage of wins and losses
My legal issues may or may not have been due to inconsistencies with my pharmaceutical license rather than violence also
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In reply to Post #1649
You need your eyes testing as my comment was not aimed at you ❄
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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So... at the end of today's lesson, here's what we have learned
1 - Don't f*ck with Noj. He might be a reasonable man these days but in the past (adopts best Mitchell Bruvvers / Ray Winstone accent) ... ''E used to be a bit 'aaandy!'
2 - Scozza flip flops like a grass carp on a sunny day - how would he deal with the situation...?
'if i was a copper i would have got the sack too because i would have smashed his ****ing face in' (1575)
'Glad i don't have to deal with them' (1584)
'I would love to see some of the people on here dealing with a raging nutter' (1594)
3 - We finally found out why Scozza failed the entrance exam for the Fire service...
Examiner - You see something on fire. What do you do?
Scozza - Er... put fire on it?
Examiner - Thankyou Mr Schofield, that will be all
4 - Braders needs his eyes testing.
'I know mate,he looks like a snowflake on pics I have seen of him too' - Rubbish. I look like Thor (albeit a foot shorter)
Or Farrah Fawcett.
5 - Keeping with the MCU thing. Greekskii is out very own Steve Rogers (before the serum). No matter how many times the big bullies try to knock him down, he just keeps coming back. 'I can do this all day'
6 - When Braders gets a bit aggy, the best remedy is for one of his mates to pull him off. To be fair, it could work I guess...
7 - (left blank for the inevitable comebacks aimed at me - please do better than 'snowflake' / Lefty / or just plain ***)
8 - I don't care about number 7
Peace and love all!
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In reply to Post #1647
Why would you not do it even if it paid good money?
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In reply to Post #1644
Neither is working for the NHS or fire brigade or numerous other jobs. End of the day it’s even more on top for them because they aren’t representing a private company, they are representing the country and the government and as most see it, the law. They are scrutinised further hence why they have a comprehensive code of ethics to adhere to.
What they get paid isn’t an excuse to be allowed to not be professional though is it. These people didn’t take a job without knowing the pay. They made their choice for their career. Just like NHS staff, they do it for a reason more than the money. Some of them will genuinely want to uphold the law, but as we all know some do it for the power trip.
I wouldn’t do it even if it paid good money.
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In reply to Post #1645
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1644
I would if I could be armed response..
Those ****ers would soon stop speeding past my place late into the night with a few sprays of an automatic rifle in their direction
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In reply to Post #1643
Being a police officer is far from a normal 9 to 5 job.For the money they get paid there is no chance in hell I would do it.Unfortunately its only going to get worse,would you do it for the money and **** they have to put up with
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In reply to Post #1642
That’s like any job. Don’t do anything and you are reprimanded. Step over the line of what you’re meant to do and you’re reprimanded.
In your workplace do you have codes of conduct and standards to adhere to?
What happens if you breach those?
Not quite sure why normal workplace practice doesn’t apply to police officers
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In reply to Post #1640
There might be with this incident but the officers on the frontline can't win.If they are seen to be doing nothing they are useless and if they over step the mark even slightly they are suspended.When there are no police left on the streets because nobody wants to do the job anymore then crime will go through the roof
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In reply to Post #1639
I thought you have to complete a fitness test and physicals to be a police officer? Surely that’s the measure of being capable to deal with the job. Then again, I see plenty of police that probably couldn’t run 10m.
Not sure ethnicity, etc has anything to do with being capable to handle the job. Could be a 10st BJJ black belt that’s capable of handling the physicality of the job. Literally just being able to do your job should be a requirement of getting a job.
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In reply to Post #1638
Yeah so they didn’t investigate because they knew he acted professionally and that was proved by releasing the full footage...
They didn’t refer this incident to the IPCC for nothing. There’s clearly some element of doubt that he did not carry out his duties how he should have done.
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In reply to Post #1637
Either proper training or only employ capable people
That is not feasible remember, ethnicity, disabled groups, options for all, its sad but thats the truth.
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In reply to Post #1636
The public can cry wolf these days and it gets investigated.There was a video released in America by the public showing an officer pulling a woman from a stationery car.The video looked shocking and the officer looked like he had handled it very badly.The police force he worked for decided to release the full video from his patrol car and that showed the true events,he had acted professionally throughout and asked the woman over 20 times to exit the vehicle.She was swearing and being abusive throughout the whole incident
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In reply to Post #1635
Yeah. See post with link below.
It’s like you said, 10st adult isn’t equipped to deal with larger people intent on doing everything to evade capture. Either proper training or only employ capable people.
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In reply to Post #1634
If there was nothing wrong with what he did it wouldn’t need investigating...
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In reply to Post #1632
Be nice if I did
I’m posting what I know, how about you?
You have raised a good point though, the training is extremely poor
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In reply to Post #1631
If the incident is being investigated he has to be suspended whilst the investigation takes place
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some of you might want to read this ... police code of ethics. Minimum force necessary....nothing to make the public lose trust in the police force.... a few more that this incident probably has this officer making his case for.
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In reply to Post #1630
It’s brader’s world. His words.
Sorry that you know everything about everything and no one else does
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In reply to Post #1628
As I said, he’s suspended so he clearly didn’t do his job properly. Otherwise he wouldn’t be. Regardless of what crimes been committed the police don’t serve the justice, they apprehend criminals so the justice can be served in a court of law. That’s how it works apparently in this country.
I already said what id do, parva, taser or sweep the legs for a takedown or a noj said, a baton to the knee to drop them. Get my fellow officer who is also there to help restrain and arrest. But then it doesn’t matter what I’d do, because it’s not about me is it.
I never said I think they get loads of training. Just that their training and guidance means they know their code of conduct which they have to follow or face disciplinary action.
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In reply to Post #1629
I would give it up mate. Your out of touch with the real world, or I will say, as I know it
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In reply to Post #1627
No no. You said it yourself. Your mate pulled you off him otherwise “it would have ended badly for my attacker”. You then claimed to know your limits (clearly not as your friend had to pull you off) and got told you were fine to do what you did (what you did until your friend pulled you off, what you would have done if your friend hadnt from what you described as ending badly, sounds as if it would have been beyond what is deemed acceptable)
All your own words. Nothing about me determining anything.
So why are you talking about your experience with a kids spoon then
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In reply to Post #1623
The point is, contrary to your believes, they don’t get much training
Which is why I asked you initially, how you would deal with it?
What would you do, run off?
You know, for example, 10 stone uni student with no life experience deals with 16 stone raging nutter, yer, er, can you stop that please
What you think happens, does not happen
For the record. That **** was smack outside a police van (no respect for the law) and he decided to run across the road and chin the victim and lift him off his feet before leaving him unconscious which at that point the police intervened
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In reply to Post #1624
Sorry did not realise you get to determine what is right and wrong now in the eyes of the law.I don't think a plastic knife in the school canteen counts though.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1625
Me and the guy that took me in had a chuckle. I asked the lad if he meant doing impressions because he failed at fighting just one of them the first time round
All jokes aside, it’s an unpleasant time to be a copper.. or a human being for that matter link
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1615
Yeah I think I've read some of his posts on here...
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In reply to Post #1622
Clearly not considering you had to be dragged off of him. As you said yourself.
So you didn’t handle it correctly, your friend stopped you going too far.
I’d probably do what I did when I had a knife pulled on me...and not brag about it on a carp forum In the future
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In reply to Post #1620
If the training is inadequate then that’s the fault of the police force. They should be trained properly so they don’t lose their heads and disregard their code of conduct and professionalism. Not quite sure what your distain for the poor training of police officers does to help your point though?
If I remember correctly your missus is plod, ask her for her code of conduct and all other paperwork about what they can and can’t do. Pretty sure they are expected to uphold professionalism and if they don’t they get reprimanded, as anyone in any job does. If this policeman is now suspended then his superiors think he did something wrong and didn’t do his job properly. Regardless of what you think.
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In reply to Post #1621
Funnily though I wasn't hey as they said I had handled it correctly.I know my limits and when to stop and what is acceptable.I can not stand people who stamp or hit someone whilst they are on the ground.Where in my post did I say the attacker was unconscious or I was hitting them whilst on the ground.You just love twisting things to stir up ****.What would you do in that situation then
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In reply to Post #1618
Bragging about it shows the frame of mind you have. Just saying.
You’re comparing yourself and your actions to a police officer... who isn’t meant to lose their head and attempt to kill someone. Self defence or not. In fact laws in this country say self defence only goes as far as stopping someone harming you. Beating an unconscious person further means you are beyond the defence of it being self defence and you’d be arrested for it
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In reply to Post #1617
A WEEK officer safety training out of 14 weeks really sets you up to deal with nutters
Yes, black belt equivalent in a week
And that’s about keeping yourself safe and recognising what you can and can’t deal with
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In reply to Post #1616
I know mate,he looks like a snowflake on pics I have seen of him too
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In reply to Post #1617
Never once stamped on anyone,once a person is down imo its over or should be.If someone had just tried take your life and make my children have no dad what do you want me do.Help him up and shake his hand and say no hard feelings
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In reply to Post #1612
If a policeman has someone come at them with a knife and they manage to disarm and beat them within an inch of their life they are NOT doing their job. It’s not in their code of conduct to do it. They wouldn’t be acting professionally.
They are professionally meant to disarm, restrain and arrest using reasonable force. Not kill or seriously injure. Simple as that. If you think the police should be allowed to give an unarmed and restraint person a real pasting then you must be one of them stamp on someone’s unconscious head brigade. But maybe that’s obvious by you bragging you almost killed someone with your bare hands
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In reply to Post #1613
Careful with the snowflakes Braders
If you can’t stop a raging lunatic with a beaming smile and decent conversation old chap your ****ed
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1610
I knew you’d like the direction this has gone
It is true though mate, you can’t police some folk without force.
My argument is that it’s never ok to choke, but using the age old clip round the ear or baton is the less dangerous option.
When I was in the custody of our brothers in blue on a weekend a while back, the attitude and threats from some people being processed was incredible. Still kicking off with cuffs and leg restraints on, one lad who’d have blown away in a stiff breeze was coming back the following day to ‘do’ them all
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1613
Yes that's exactly what I said isn't it....
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In reply to Post #1610
So you think its ok how our officers have to police these days.Pussy footing around ********s who have no respect for the law or other people at all
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In reply to Post #1611
I'm not saying the police should go around smacking people but they should also not have to pushy foot around people if under attack.I have had someone come at me with a knife and its not nice at all,so much goes through your mind in such a short space of time.I managed to defend myself and come through it ok,but im not sure if its relief or adrenaline that kicked in but if my friend had not have pulled me off my attacker it could of ended badly for him
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In reply to Post #1609
I don’t think a punch or two would make criminals respect the police at all. These people are at war with them by the very nature of their choice of career. You’ve got 16 year olds murdering people because they looked at them. If anything it would work in reverse and you’d see assaults or murders of police rising further. As you lot have said, you wouldn’t like getting a smack from someone and you’d do it back. Why doesn’t that count if it’s a policeman that smacks you?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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This is just getting ridiculous
It's like a bad Guy Ritchie script with all the pseudo macho gangster Crap. Lock stick and two smoking gobsh*tes. ...
If he was doing his job right he wouldn't have been taken off duty. Simple.
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In reply to Post #1606
People not respecting the law and thinking they can do what they want is what is causing so much trouble.The way officers have to pussy foot around is bull****,you break the law and try and attack an officer you get what you deserve.A good slap would do some of these scumbags good and make them show a bit more respect in the future
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In reply to Post #1607
I agree Jon, there are some nasty characters about. I don’t have a problem myself. For me they deserve what they get
There are also some bellends in the force, the ones who are cops out of work are the worst, my brother in law was one, retired now, still thinks he is one
One thing for sure. It’s not a job I would want because the first **** that hurt me, I would want to ****ing cripple them
Boxing is something different though. That is two people who choose to put their life on the line, for which I respect them, their choice, their passion
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1605
When somebody dies from being punched it’s usually the floor that kills them or causes brain damage, when they die from strangulation it’s the lack of oxygen that kills them or causes brain damage. I’m not saying the police should stand toe to toe and have a punch up though
I blame the MMA cuddle gang for this obsession with choking, previously you choked people you wanted to kill.
He may well have knocked somebody out, but remember we live in a society where people (you) applaud boxers for knocking people out.. what makes one ok and the other not, gloves?
It’s a violent world made worse by the glorification of violence in sport, computer games and tv.
We also don’t know why he knocked somebody out, is there never a valid reason except for being a copper?
I’m not a pacifist, had many a tumble when required and expect they won’t be the last but a prolonged cutting off of somebody’s air supply you better kill them or you could be next, I’d happily murder anybody that took the risk to do it to me or my loved ones.
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In reply to Post #1603
I didn’t see this guy try and choke the copper out? Clearly him being investigated shows even his superiors aren’t sure he used reasonable force.
Seems like he lost his head and acted out of anger and rage than as a police officer. Because at the end of the day his plan was to choke him unconscious if he didn’t give up. That isn’t a professional action of a police officer.
Back to my original statement. The words of the police alongside their actions are getting them in trouble much more recently. There’s a lot of intent to abuse powers being picked up on cameras nowadays. Like the copper that threatened to make up an incident to arrest a teenager
Maybe instead of them being worried about cameras they should focus on acting lawfully within their job and they won’t have to worry about being filmed doing something they shouldn’t.
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In reply to Post #1602
I will tell you how it works Jon, case by case and that’s on a daily basis, there will be some degree of variance in each case
Chocking somebody out is no different to sparking somebody out, they are unconscious, simple. 20 seconds earlier that **** had run over and knocked somebody out.
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In reply to Post #1600
Spot on
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In reply to Post #1601
They can use reasonably practical force. That means if some **** try’s to slot them, they can slot them back. If they are in fear for their life and can justify their actions they can get away with what some people would call murder
Like I said, you talk some proper bollox, professional manner. When dealing with the public the majority of it will be in a professional manner, when dealing with ****s, you deal with them like ****s, you don’t risk injury yourself, not unless you are a compete and utter fool
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1600
And I know a lot of wrong uns who’d all be happier to get a clump than be strangled.
As I’ve said I’m all for a bit of rough and tumble, it’s the only way with some of the degenerates they come across. Doesn’t take much to have an accident and either kill somebody or cut off the oxygen to their brain long enough to cause some serious damage. Knee caps mend, brains don’t... imagine one of the many officers you know having their life ruined by an accident at work.
Let some of these bullies go and try policing a rough estate, you need to use your brain in a situation like that and not a sleeper hold or it’ll be you eating through a straw with only yourself to blame.
Got a lot of time for the police, it’s not a job I’d want. But as with all walks of life some are tossers
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In reply to Post #1598
Carry out their duties in a professional manner is what they are trained and paid to do. It’s their profession. Therefore doing their job is acting professionally. Losing your head isn’t professional in any job.
Honestly. Stop talking crap, you just look like a silly little boy
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In reply to Post #1599
Trying to resist arrest, until they cop for one. I know a lot of coppers and I know exactly what they deal with on a regular basis. Cocks like the one below deserve everything they get. Until all the recent publicity no one would have battered an eyelid
Be funny when nobody wants to be a cop because they are going to micro analyse everything thing they do. It’s simple for me, you deal with ****s, you deal with them their way. **** em
Your chocking me, are your chocking me. You wasn’t bothered a couple a minutes ago when you knocked somebody unconscious you ****
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1598
I actually doubt he was trying to assault the copper mate, just resisting arrest for the assault he was allegedly involved in.
I believe the copper was a penis, not to say the other bloke didn’t deserve a clip round the ear but you can’t go cutting off people’s air supply.. bad form from a person in his position.
Maybe pepper spray won’t hit the spot all the time, nobody is bigger than a size 9 in the Jacobs though 
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In reply to Post #1597
That or he’s lost his head...which isn’t very professional of him
You do talk some bollox. Lost his head. Typical of somebody looking in from the outside. Yeah, somebody is trying to smash your face. Mmmmmm, must stay professional
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In reply to Post #1596
Nor would they walk through a sweep of the legs and being put on their arse. Much less violent and the same result...
This copper wasn’t MMA trained otherwise he wouldn’t need to resort to trying to choke someone unconscious, he would have just took him down a much easier way and got in to a dominant position to make the arrest. That or he’s lost his head...which isn’t very professional of him
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In reply to Post #1595
Sometimes that don’t touch the sides.......spice zombies regularly walk through that......they won’t walk through a solid knee on the neck or a sleeper.......
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In reply to Post #1576
Probably used CS spray and a taser.
Edit - not sure what your issue is about “how would I deal with him then”
I just pointed out a lot of coppers are getting in trouble for what they are saying to people recently.
What exactly is your issue just out of interest. Because I didn’t even comment on what happened apart from he used a direct threat of stopping him breathing if he didn’t give up.
I suggest a therapist. Maybe you’ll have better luck unlocking your issues and getting over them than trying to bait people on a forum
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In reply to Post #1593
I didn’t put it because I purposely wanted to see peoples reactions, hence the simple, what do you think to this?
You see Mal, people just do not know EXACTLY what goes off behind the scenes and you can have all the training you like but when it comes to the crunch it’s survival skills that kick in and everything else goes out of the window
Lots of cops train in martial arts so they can defend themselves when dealing with ****s like the one below.
Like I said, below. I would love to see some of the people on here dealing with a raging nutter, add a drug fuelled cocktail better still and Parva and even tasers don’t have much effect on some folk, they just want to smash you to bits. And when you deal with people like this all the time, it’s changes your mind set
Will you please be nice and sit down while I spray you in the eyes with this Parva
They are more likely to try and take it off you and smash your face in with can
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1575
If the bloke being arrested had been rioting and 'sparked somebody out' - then why not put that in your original post so we all knew more information to give a more objective response?
I answered based on what you posted and what I saw in the clip - and then you go off on your snowflake and feather duster rant (which - if you read the subsequent posts, was suggested by absolutely no-one except you).
based on the OP and what was there - and your original question good arrest or not, the only response is 'no'. It is not a good arrest as he has been withdrawn from that aspect of his work pending an investigation. a 'good' arrest wouldn't need this course of action would it? Your answer is there in the report and it has been given by people who know more about it than you or I - i.e. his superiors in the police force.
and all the bull about him doing it but just 'keeping it quiet' and he's probably a MMA fan? yeah that's what we want from our police force - a bunch of connor macgregor wannabies who join up so they can beat people up and keep it secret....
have you ever tried putting out a fire with fire? you know what you get? more fire.
I'll agree with you on one thing - his and his partners bodycam footage will provide more evidence as to what really happened.
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In reply to Post #1591
Strangulation is one thing, cutting the blood supply is another.......
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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That copper was an idiot. I’m all for dishing out some heavy handed policing, but at this point in time it doesn’t matter if they’re black, white, brown or aquamarine.. don’t ****ing strangle hold people
Give him a clump round the knee caps with a night stick, tase or gas him, whatever you want. They’re issued with those things for a reason. But don’t go strangling people in the age of trial by smart phone video which conveniently misses the full story.
Policing like this undoes any work nationwide forces put in with communities.
I get a warm feeling inside seeing people arrested for stuff I’ve not done since turning over a new leaf and if you resist arrest you deserve a bit of slap and tickle. Whenever I’ve been nicked I just played the game and funnily enough never really got a hiding, certainly didn’t get bloody choked!
This is a case of 2 wrongs making a right... mess
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In reply to Post #1588
Yes bob.......simple sleeper works wonders to mouthy ****s!
Policing tactics to match the struggle are ok but if your losing then go for a sleeper.......police training should nowadays include BJJ........effective and satisfying......
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In reply to Post #1588
Exactly that
And when you are up against it proper training can help a little but you can also be fighting for your life too and that is a totally different game
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In reply to Post #1583
“I give up”
Yeah I’m sure they’ve heard that before. Translated means can you loosen your grip so I have the chance to struggle free
Once the cuffs on is when they’ll loosen their grip.
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In reply to Post #1582
I'd imagine there's scores of arrests of violent criminals everyday. Clearly the vast majority aren't by strangulation. The police will investigate and come to a conclusion
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In reply to Post #1584
True, awful job nowadays as your hands are tied in so many ways! Add the BLM fiasco and most police now are afraid to apprehend or arrest ethnic minorities for fear of being called out as racist!
This whole thing along with CV is all perfectly timed as the globalisation mob are losing there grip on humanity and the direction they want it to follow......divide the masses and start the infighting!
Trump 2020 or we are all truly ****ed!!
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In reply to Post #1578
Had to google that.
MMA is mixed martial arts and choking out is a term used in it. That makes more sense now.
He should've kept his mouth shut and just done it.
Easy to say though, training will probably get you through most events but there's always going to be an on the spot moment when some ****ing dangerous idiot takes you out of that zone.
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In reply to Post #1583
I know exactly what has gone off
Things like that happen on a weekly basis. Some proper horrible ****s out there Wayne. Glad i dont have to deal with them
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In reply to Post #1581
When interviewed that ***** said I wasn’t resisting, at the same time you can hear him say “I give up” when he is about to be put to sleep.......**** ....
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In reply to Post #1580
Its the whole choking thing now mate, publicised and conditioned all the snowflakes as a massive no
I would love to see some of them trying to deal with a real life situation like that
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In reply to Post #1579
Totally agree Wayne. When they kick off like that its the only way to deal with them. Even the Parva does not touch some of them
Not to mention them being spat at, mind you though, once they get the spit hood on this usually stops that
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In reply to Post #1578
Training stops you making mistakes in any walk of life mate. Makes no sense then for him to be suspended by his superiors after reviewing the footage unless they believe he may have transgressed the reasonably practical part of arrest.
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Quick sleeper ain’t an issue........should use it more for *****s like him!!!
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In reply to Post #1577
Training only takes you so far. However, when you deal with a **** like that as far as i am aware you can use what force is "reasonable practical", so if he cracked you, you could crack him but i can clarify this. I wouldn't wait though, would you?
I guess the cop is a part time MMA fighter since the talk of choking out. He should have just kept that quite i suppose. im just disappointed he didn't. In moments like that, how would you deal with somebody with all guns blazing, hit him back or take him down?
And if he wont stop trying to break free or hit you because he is in a fit of rage?
In a media world full of snowflakes they will be walking around with a feather duster and fluffy handcuffs before long. Personally, for me you should be able to fight fire with fire. They all have body cams now so evidence gathering as the situation unfolds
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In reply to Post #1576
I'd expect the situation to be dealt with the way the officer was trained to deal with arrests. That's not the way surely or has he been suspended for what he said?
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In reply to Post #1574
You make me laugh. Let me ask you a question.
How would you deal with the situation below?
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In reply to Post #1572
I would add that there are missing facts - the reason for arrest, the minutes and actions prior to the video start etc. ...
Indeed we are. The **** had just been rioting and sparked somebody out 
So when you deal with a **** like that i think its fair game. The man was in full rage mode. not the time for a feather duster and voice of reason!
To be fair if i was a copper i would have got the sack too because i would have smashed his ****ing face in
And then they are rioting outside a police station about choking one of our Asian brothers
What a **** and that is the kind of people they are dealing with on a daily basis. Feather duster anybody?
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In reply to Post #1573
I reckon he could lose his job based solely on what he said rather than what he done.
Quite a few police officers recently here seem to be getting in trouble for what they are saying to people. This is a direct threat of physical harm. There was the officer who threatened a teenager that he was going to make up a reason to arrest him and a few others videoed during the last few months.
Goes in a circle though doesn’t it, more stuff like this happens, the more respect the police lose from people, which in turn means more abuse directed at them, so the more likely they are to abuse their power to deal with those abusing or disrespecting them... and repeat.
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In reply to Post #1572
I would add that there are missing facts - the reason for arrest, the minutes and actions prior to the video start etc
That's the important bit without knowing we can't understand how this happened. I can't believe this happened out of nothing. To use the choking comments is just plain idiotic after recent events, I reckon he could lose his job based solely on what he said rather than what he done.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1571
i think any officer deciding to use 'choking someone to sleep' as a method is just plain stupid. even without the wider context of George Floyd etc. It's just dangerous - as we've seen to awful consequence.
'chill out or I'll choke you out' doesn't strike me as Police standard procedure.
He (the officer) looks like his emotions have got the better of him (opinion obviously) and it appears to be excessive use of force.
The officer has been removed from frontline duties so the force obviously recognises there's an issue to be dealt with.
All of that stands regardless of the race of the man being arrested. Once that is added to the discussion it only makes things worse in the current climate, especially in Halifax.
I would add that there are missing facts - the reason for arrest, the minutes and actions prior to the video start etc. ...
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1569
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In reply to Post #1568
Arsenal fan... Have a word with him Tinhead.
Yeah next time duck
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1566
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12446750/tube-racist-unmasked/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly
apparently he did try it in a boozer with similar results...
Arsenal fan... Have a word with him Tinhead.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1565
Agreed
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In reply to Post #1565
I don't condone violence but anyone that mouths off like that has to realise they are risking getting a tonking
So true
That’s what makes me laugh at a lot of these carp clowns in their videos spouting off. Yeah, try that in a boozer
They would be sparked out in minutes with an attitude like that
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In reply to Post #1563
I don't condone violence but anyone that mouths off like that has to realise they are risking getting a tonking, don't matter what colour or race they are and what colour or race they are doing it to.
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In reply to Post #1558
I would expect the same mate. What goes around comes around for me, anybody being a knob, expect what comes your way
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If it’s not bad enough the bloke is a proper racist **** getting sparked by a young lad but the whole world can watch the fact too.......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1558
We'd probably get some Joker signing up to a carp forum just to try and make a point about how it's black people's fault when white people punch them....
Fortunately that's a moot point as the roles are exactly as seen on the footage.
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In reply to Post #1558
as Noj said
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1558
Then the aggressor getting ironed out would still be entertaining
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And if the roles were reversed?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1555
true...
what's the saying? - 'people who live with glass jaws shouldn't throw racist insults'
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In reply to Post #1545
Gobshi*e , might keep his gob shut now !
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1550
Even the staunchest pacifist has to admire the beauty of how that unfolded.
I like how he still had his guard up on the deck
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In reply to Post #1552
Mighty fine telescope you’ve got if you can see from Glasgow to London. How many wraps is that?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1552
https://goo.gl/maps/R5Xx8Q1GvtpqVywt8
it's still showing up here...
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In the UK White lives matter will be the slogan in years to come, London is already gone
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In reply to Post #1545
Nice shot really
You get what you get
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1545
well... obviously I can't condone violence...
Karma is a different thing though - it manifests in different ways eh?
My dad would have said that it might have knocked some sense into the pathetic lowlife. Maybe not in this case.
I bet his Mam is very proud...
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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He deserved that, but I hope he's ok, for the sake of the lad who hit him.
Rsoles like that aren't worth a conviction.
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In reply to Post #1547
As Jamie Vardy says - chat ****, get banged
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In reply to Post #1545
Serves him right
A single blow to the head that renders someone unconscious could've had unforeseen consequences though.
Headline could've been group of black men kill a white man travelling on his own.
Anyway it didn't happen so serves him right
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In reply to Post #1545
Hurl racist abuse and then square up to someone trying to get off the train and this is what you get.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1543
Yes Mal
Peace and love
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1541
peace and love man, peace and love
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In reply to Post #1530
What you support is that everyone’s life matters to someone, even if it’s not yourself?
Exactly that
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In reply to Post #1529
Hi Mal. Understood
We all have different passions and believes, thats life. We need to appreciate them. Only an idiot would dismiss them
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In reply to Post #1539
" The misunderstanding of who’s life matters is the definition people are struggling to define. I was nodding along with everything he said until I read ‘black lives matter‘ because it really goes without saying"
I've been a fairly regular visitor to SA since 92 and believe me I understand why he's used those words. The fact still is from my personal experience there's minorities that don't equally value others because of their skin colour. So it needs saying, especially in context being a SA cricket captain.
I do understand where you're coming from but it's the readers simple problem to solve if they have an issue mate.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1538
I’m not questioning his motives or saying that he is incorrect mate. I just think as soon as black or all lives matter become dragged into quotations or arguments it opens up the same debate over every individual’s (those reading the quote, not saying it) interpretation of each abbreviation. The misunderstanding of who’s life matters is the definition people are struggling to define. I was nodding along with everything he said until I read ‘black lives matter‘ because it really goes without saying, we needn’t label another division between cultures/races.
Some discussion is obviously better than none, but things are usually taken the wrong way where race and/or religion is concerned and it snowballs to handbags
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In reply to Post #1537
Not like you too not read the words and muddy the waters with his motives Noj.
It isn't semantics, he's revisiting a previous set of words and admitting he was wrong.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1533
Ocelot- he’s an eloquent and nice bloke, it’s clearly a well thought out and respectful quote.
All it is though is another slant on the same argument, semantics..
What do you reckon the owner of a cotton or sugar plantation would’ve said had you asked him if ‘black lives matter’
The slogan/name itself is open to interpretation and why some people that need a nudge to identify the pile of beans with 5 in it can get offended.
We can talk about it until the cows come home but some folk ain’t changing
As with most idiots the best solution is often to stand shoulder to shoulder against them, rise above retaliation with your head held high and move on together. You can’t change society in an instant, suggestions of police force abolition etc. is nonsense. Everybody knows, it’s just fuel on the fire.
What doesn’t help is the football lout brigade and civilian armies like in Brixton.. they’re both divisive and intimidating.
We just have to coexist with these unpleasantries unfortunately.
Ask mal, peace and love is the answer man ✌🏽
Greekski- you know full well, it’s an argument for arguments sake. It means nothing except the one throwing it about being dense or deluded
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In reply to Post #1531
I don’t think ALM stands for anything does it? Because it’s all encompassing for every living organism.
What I don’t get is why it is a response to BLM...as pointed out, adopted by neo-nazi and white supremacy groups when they go to counter BLM protests.
My question stands... what does ALM actually stand for, what does an ALM movement want to achieve and what is the definition of ALM.
Why can’t anyone answer that?
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In reply to Post #1532
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1532
That's very good -
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In reply to Post #1531
Well observed and put Noj
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In reply to Post #1531
I like Pfaff Du Plesis' recent words on BLM and blindness to colour, the South Africa cricket captain until recently.
Du Plessis acknowledged that his comment earlier this year, in which he had said the team did not see colour - when talking about Temba Bavuma being dropped from the Test team - was naïve. "I have gotten it wrong before. Good intentions were failed by a lack of perspective when I said on a platform that - I don't see colour," he said. "In my ignorance I silenced the struggles of others by placing my own view on it.
"A race problem is a human race problem, if one part of the body hurts ,we all stop, we empathize, we get perspective, we learn and then we tend to the hurting part of the body. So I am saying that all lives don't matter UNTIL black lives matter. I'm speaking up now, because if I wait to be perfect, I never will. I want to leave a legacy of empathy. The work needs to continue for the change to come and whether we agree or disagree, conversation is the vehicle for change."
It is a copy and paste because they're his words and they're worth taking on board from a man who's lived it.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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BLM I’m sure began as the A variant, as a slogan.
It’s huge funding, media presence and mainstream politicisation is what differentiates it from ALM and where there is money, there is corruption and deception. Rather than just a subliminal pinning of your colours to the mast..
I don’t like the name of either, certainly not now. It clumsily or subliminally indicates and stirs division which causes the very argument you are all having. The problem for the B boys is that A have hijacked the better slogan that could’ve stood for unity, coexistence and blindness to colour..
Instead, it becomes the latest incarnation of right/left political ping pong with points scored each time their corresponding media channels unearth something juicy.
Same cycle, different terminology, we’ll never get along
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In reply to Post #1527
No I just wanted to know what ALL means. Like. I asked, is it limited to humans or does it include all living organisms too?
It wasn’t a pathetic twist, it was a genuine question. If all lives matter then you wouldn’t treat a terrorist differently to other humans beings. I just wanted to know if that’s what you were saying or not. Isn’t difficult to answer a question.
I just wanted to clarify what you stand for before entering in to a discussion about it. From your description, you’re saying you don’t support ALL LIVES MATTER. What you support is that everyone’s life matters to someone, even if it’s not yourself?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1527
Ok scozza - by way of trying to bring the tit for tat stuff to a peaceful conclusion... and genuinely non confrontational
It's fair enough that tackling racism - which is what BLM means to me - isn't a high priority for you. But - you have devoted a lot of time to raising objections to it / undermining it / actively dismissing it on here. Now that can easily be construed as you having your own agenda by being overtly negative about what is at it's heart a very positive movement.
As you rightly say, there are lots of worthwhile causes. Some of them feel less important to me - but I don't take time out of my day to object to them / dismiss them.
Remember also that the 'all lives matter' argument is the first line of dismissal used by the far right / white supremacists, so it often acts as that red rag to a bull for people - like me - who feel very strongly about BLM.
I speak out on this because it has a daily effect on people that I love. It's not agenda pushing, it's everyday life - and it's not an attack on you.
Hopefully this comes across as meant - like I said, non confrontational.
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In reply to Post #1526
Nail on head. When it comes down to the bottom line, I wouldn’t expect anything else from you because that’s what it’s all about
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In reply to Post #1525
What do you want me to do, categorise everything and drop BLM in at number 39
Lives are lives, somebody’s child, so to somebody their life matters. Again, as I said below before you tried to put a pathetic twist on it. Does that explain it enough?
And for about the 5th time, some people have options and some don’t so who are the ones who are really desperate?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1523
If you look closely - between the lines, there's just white...
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In reply to Post #1524
I get that. But you said ALM, and have done the entire time since BLM kicked off globally again. Just wondered what ALM actually means and how it defines ALL. You promote it so thought you’d be able to explain it. Clearly not.
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In reply to Post #1523
There’s nothing to explain, like already said below, you cannot read between the lines can you.
There are a lot more pressing things to sort out in the country than BLM. I will say it one last time. They have options, some do not.
That’s just my option for what it’s worth, I’m sure everybody else has there’s
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In reply to Post #1520
So why is ALM more important than BLM?
Still haven’t got a definition of ALM from you, seeing as it’s an agenda you are pushing. Why won’t you explain it to me?
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In reply to Post #1521
You are the one with the agenda
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1513
You pay tax? That's your best response? How very altruistic of you. I'm sure the homeless of Sheffield are organising a march past your house right now to thank you for your efforts on their behalf...
We all pay tax. And it's compulsory. You aren't choosing to do it to support those supposedly important issues. Typical hypocritical keyboard warrior attitude, 'Something must be done! But by somebody else, I'm too busy sorry'. You hope the government will use it wisely? Brilliant. Because they've done great by the homeless so far haven't they?
As for forcing my opinion. No. I post on a thread and challenge what I perceive to be dodgy attitudes. And in case you haven't noticed, there have been plenty displayed on here. Again, you're hypocritical. I'm forcing my opinion down people's throats but you aren't?
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In reply to Post #1519
I don’t think anybody is misinterpreting it? It needs to fit into a government agenda, something to address like everything else that has been mentioned too.
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In reply to Post #1517
Isn’t that exactly what has been done to BLM? People thinking it means black lives matter more when in fact it means black lives matter too?
Funny how it’s okay to misinterpret BLM but it’s so bad if i misinterpret ALM.
hypocrisy at its finest
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In reply to Post #1517
Sense at last. I am glad you do Tinhead. Tunnel vision and all for others, only one thing!!!
Others are just spouting bollox to try and justify their cause, as usual
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In reply to Post #1514
I know what you're saying Chris. For others I can only guess that their beliefs are so strong they can't start to understand what it is you're trying to say or if they do say they understand somehow it could be construed that they are showing a weakness to their cause.
Maybe agree to disagree?
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In reply to Post #1514
If all lives matter then you are saying their lives matter too. Unless you have a * to denote that you don’t not feel their lives matter equally to everyone else’s lives. ALL means ALL. That’s when you mentioned them. By saying all you include every single person on the planet, or is it not limited to humans? ALL lives surely includes every living things, from microorganisms to trees to spiders to humans.
Or do you not support ALL lives matter, just the ones you chose? Or does it pain you that your cause of ALM is being misinterpreted? Maybe you need to clarify what you mean by ALL lives matter.
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In reply to Post #1510
Thanks for clarifying
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In reply to Post #1510
Don’t you spout some utter bollox
Yes, ALM, even Greek ones
I think it’s quite clear what I was getting at, or should be to anybody who can read between the lines
At what point in my post did I mention the groups you dragged up. Crimes get punished. Do you want to discuss that too, should we hang draw and quarter them all, I’m easy?
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In reply to Post #1501
There are bigger pressing issues to address in this country than BLM for me. After god knows how many pages of discussions you are still trying to force your opinion down others throats. It’s something you are passionate about. It’s something I am not. I believe there are bigger issues to address, some of which I have posted below. They have opportunities and options, some people don’t have any, simple.
As for supporting, I pay a large chunk of tax so I hope the government are going to use it well.
What have you done, for BLM?
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In reply to Post #1511
I know mate, but for the purposes of my explanation.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1510
there is no ALM movement - it's just a lazy response from people who for whatever reason, feel the need to object to the BLM movement.
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In reply to Post #1509
No, I just wasn’t shouting ALM at the BLM movement. I am able to see issues and causes and differentiate between them without trying to cluster everything in to one movement. Hence saying why are you asking me because I never supported the ALM movement, ask scozza as he does.
I will clarify though, all lives don’t matter to me because I don’t think anyone guilty of the crimes I described below and various others should be treated equally to others. They should have some if not all of their human rights taken away, luckily we have a justice system for this (even if it fails a lot)
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In reply to Post #1508
That answer doesn't clarify, it's a bit cryptic. You say you were never 'for' so are we to assume your are 'against' ALM in other causes.
Not a problem though, let's just leave it there.
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In reply to Post #1507
Why? I’ve never said I’m for ALM over other causes.
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In reply to Post #1506
Let me ask you the same question
ALM - even terrorists, paedophiles, rapists and murderers??
Why do you feel they should be on equal standing to everyone else?
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In reply to Post #1505
So no then.
This is the fatal flaw with the argument for ALM not BLM I guess.
That and not understanding that BLM means black lives matter too, not matter more of course.
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In reply to Post #1504
I can't say 100% as I don't include terrorists, paedophiles, rapists and murderers but if I can exclude them then generally the answer is yes
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In reply to Post #1503
Are you not an ALM supporter then tinhead?
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In reply to Post #1502
Personally I'd like to see them strung up but as we are not allowed to execute them I suppose some feel their lives do matter?
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In reply to Post #1499
ALM - even terrorists, paedophiles, rapists and murderers??
Why do you feel they should be on equal standing to everyone else?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1499
I already explained that saying black lives matter doesn't mean that others don't. Flip it on its head scozza. If all lives do matter then black lives do. If you can't - or choose not to - say it then perhaps there's another underlying issue. Only you know that.
As for the homeless, is it all homeless lives that matter? Just curious because when it was suggested that the 300000 people who in a few seconds found themselves homeless in beirut could use some help, you suggested that I should sell up and go over there to help (not the first time you've resorted to the 'if you love him so much why don't you just marry him' pish). That being your philosophy, will you be opening up your spare bedrooms to house a couple of homeless people in Sheffield? Or are you selling up completely to donate a lump sum to Shelter.
What about the black homeless? Or is that simply their own fault for not working hard enough.
If all lives matter then surely you'll be keen to find out why those pesky people in boats are risking life and limb to cross the channel. Perhaps they found themselves in a position where they had lost everything. Their lives do matter right? They're are all somebody's children after all ... perhaps there was an option in front of them And they took it.
I don't need calling out for being passionate about a positive movement. You are right that it is very important to me and you also know why.
If tackling the homeless issue is important to you then more power to you. Get involved. Volunteer at your local shelter. Give a little bit every month. Maybe you already do and fair play to you.
I could go on but I'm not interested in a tit for tat.
Have a good day man
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In reply to Post #1499
ALM but some matter more than others? Have you read Animal Farm?
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In reply to Post #1498
There you go again Mal and while every you do I will keep on pulling you.
ALM, they are all somebody’s child at the end of the day. Let’s start at the bottom. How about all the homeless who have lost everything in life, that is a very, very sad and a really desperate situation. If we are going to improve things let’s start at the bottom and concentrate on our own countries problems. There’s people in this category with all kinds of issues living on the streets but we will happily accept a boat load of foreign men who make it to our shores, give them free accommodation and a monthly pay check, for them to roam our streets because they are unemployable and they always will be because they have not got the skills and never will have, a lot of them turn to crime. Couple of town centres near me are full of them, games of them, coffee shops packed all day, scare the living daylights out of old folk and woman. That’s what wrong for starters
Let’s make it right for the disabled
Let’s make it right for the old folk who have contributed to the system all their lives and have **** all
The ones who sadly can’t help themselves
I can go on and on and on
Just because your number 1 priority in life is BLM don’t expect it to be everybody else’s, there are a LOT of other more pressing issues for me.
When you have options in front of you, you need to use them, some people do not have any sadly!!!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1497
stopped being about just the riots a long while back
unless you know something I don't and all the other stuff discussed has stopped too?
BLM
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Riots have finished.......a bit like this thread.......may as well lock it up.......
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In reply to Post #1495
What like the government.
Also why are you telling me how to act and think? Unless you actually know stuff?
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In reply to Post #1494
You don't need me to 'let you guess', you can just guess. You know, like you don't have to take life navigation from people who don't have a clue about sh*t to tell you how to act, feel and speak.
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In reply to Post #1493
let me guess...you're gender neutral?
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In reply to Post #1491
Did you just assume my gender Chairperson Mal?
Now I understand your feverish attempts to tell people how to act, feel and speak.
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In reply to Post #1490
The Guardian.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1489
Mum! Why do you always have to embarrass me in front of my friends?
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In reply to Post #1489
I like my reading what do you recommend too achieve the same enlightenment as you?
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In reply to Post #1488
From Chairman Mal:
"Yes - actively challenge rather than passively condone.
I'd go as far as to say it's our responsibility to speak up whenever we see / hear it. Embarrass that mate who always makes the casual racist remarks. Be the annoying git who always has to point out racist language - even if it's unintentional. Educate yourself and then others as to why terms like 'half caste' and 'coloured' are offensive.....blah blah blah do as I say as I am reeeeallly clever and educated, but in reality, i'm a pratt....."
I just came back to have a browse and see the resident virtue-signalling 'fascist robot' is still trying to convince us that we are all racists and should take the knee... and that his opinions are correct and everyone else is wrong, he's even resorted to telling people how to speak and act, YUK. ...
You sir, are weird.
Read real book instead of fascist psychology for dummies, you'll grow up and realise things are NOT what they seem, and that'll mess you right up.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1486
Yes - actively challenge rather than passively condone.
I'd go as far as to say it's our responsibility to speak up whenever we see / hear it. Embarrass that mate who always makes the casual racist remarks. Be the annoying git who always has to point out racist language - even if it's unintentional. Educate yourself and then others as to why terms like 'half caste' and 'coloured' are offensive. Teach our children to celebrate diversity rather than tolerate it. Don't shrug your shoulders and say 'it happens all the time' without calling it out when it happens around you.
It's how we can make small changes as individuals that will have that greater impact on the whole. If even just the three of us made one other person think differently about it today then that's positive. Ripples that spread.
Scozza - absolutely agreed. Treat people with respect - and show your disrespect of racist attitudes too. Football is doing good things. But still could be doing even more. Again, be annoying and when people say 'why are they still doing that knee thing'? Maybe respond with 'because the issue still exists'.
And... if someone points out a racist incident, try being comfortable with simply agreeing that it's wrong without having to say 'ah well it could happen to white people too' - because persecution and ignorance shouldn't be a competition.
Black Lives Matter has never meant that white lives don't. It's ok to simply say 'yes they do'. In the same way as supporting Macmillan Cancer research doesn't mean you think that the British Heart Foundation isn't important.
Went off one one again there, but all with positive thoughts.
Peace and love and have a good day
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In reply to Post #1486
For once i agree
Its starts with families and households and then schools, after that, well, there is no help for some people
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In reply to Post #1485
From an individual all we can do is treat people on face value and with respect, that’s it for me
You could also call it out when you see/hear it. Like I said from the start, if you Alienate that racist friend or family member by highlighting every time they are racist then maybe they will start to change. Defending someone in public to show them they have support.
I don’t think as a society we are powerless. We hold the most power to remove racism as together as a whole enormous amount of pressure can be applied to racists and casual racism (that sort that people don’t even realise they are doing) to create change. Some never will but many will. Or at least be conscious of it within themselves.
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In reply to Post #1484
Balls - I know the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean you should cop out of trying to make it better
This is my point all along Mal. Nobody is denying it. The fact is, unless you take some kind of political stand you are powerless to do anything about it. As long as the individual conducts themselves in a proper manner that’s all one can do. There will always be morons in this life but your right, the more it is publicised the more these morons will stand out. From an individual all we can do is treat people on face value and with respect, that’s it for me
As I see it at the moment, nobody has promoted it more than football, more than the government but to be fair, it’s a good platform to start with for me
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1483
so your natural instinct is to persecute? you feel you need to defend yourself against... people with DIFFERENT COLOUR SKIN
Balls - I know the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean you should cop out of trying to make it better
couple of news pop ups from this evening...
https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/04/leaked-police-bodycam-footage-shows-moments-before-george-floyds-death-13080499/?ito=push-notification&ci=26438&si=9412819 - where this thread started - doesn't get any better
https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/04/job-interview-changed-name-white-one-13053281/?ito=push-notification&ci=26424&si=9412819 - where you live...
If you didn't see 'The Talk' on Ch4 tonight, it's really worth a watch. Not sensationalised, just simple stories of what it means to grow up black in the UK. I know I'm the resident snowflake BLM sympathiser, but why not have an open mind and give it a go.
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In reply to Post #1482
Come on Mal, got to do better than that.......in a perfect world it’s perfect, but we don’t and never ever will as it’s simply not possible for human beings to conform to this perfect world.......natural instinct and built in defences In the brain see to that......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1481
Or at least since you first saw it a couple of months back on a YouTube video eh?
Of course you don't like that word. It starts with U and you only think about 'me'....
Tinhead - you have made your point and I guess the big difference for black young men is that it's probably a consideration whereas for young white men it's possibly. ... as you have said to be fair.
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In reply to Post #1480
Utopia.......been saying it for a while Bob........
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In reply to Post #1478
Sounds to me that you think we all live a perfect world where everything is fair, I wish for that world but sadly in my experience it doesn’t happen.
Unfortunately if you are young travel 1st Class, or drive an expensive car you are more likely to be questioned.
If you are young wear a hoody, hang around street corners, walk the streets in the middle of night especially carrying a holdall , wear clothes with expletives blazoned on them, avoid eye contact or generally act strangely or arrogantly etc etc then you are more likely to get stopped, the older you get the less it happens.
If you are young and black then I accept this might happen more, Danny Rose has only just turned 30 which to an older person is still young and being an athlete he looks younger but it’s not exclusive to blacks it can happen to young whites as well.
What I find hard to believe is a ticket inspector not checking everyone’s ticket, I’ve never been on a train where an inspector has not asked to see my ticket, they ask everyone, absolutely without question everyone. I will speculate and say maybe if you tell someone how to do their job you will not get the response you were after.
Not much more I can say so maybe this will be my last post on the matter.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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For those interested in a different perspective maybe...
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-talk
On channel 4 tonight. The discussions that black parents have with their children in the UK today.
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In reply to Post #1476
But it didn’t in his case and he was singled out for a ticket inspection.
What sort of white person could it apply to? Do rich white kids get the same treatment? I know I’ve never been singled out for a ticket inspection in first class travel and Don’t ‘fit in’ with the “typical first class traveller”
Also, why is this a thing, anyone from anywhere is allowed to buy a first class ticket, there is no dress code, so no one should be singled out for any reason. The fact you are declaring that if you’re not dressed smartly you aren’t likely to be a first class traveller is ridiculous.
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In reply to Post #1475
It needs to have burning crosses, white hoods and recorded racial slurs for Slow Bob to believe and rate as a good one, you must get that.
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In reply to Post #1475
No what I saying was that the Independent article wasn't a particularly good one.
That article could've applied to a young white man.
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In reply to Post #1473
So you’ve assumed something to justify it wasn’t a racist incident.
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In reply to Post #1470
And then someone would add a 'ah but....'
That's because for every response their is a counter response and you do not like it.
Nobody is denying racism does not happen, its there, what are we going to do about it?
And like already mentioned, yes, its people, and that's all colours too
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In reply to Post #1472
But it clearly says he was asked for a ticket and two white passengers weren’t. Why only him?
Most people who travel 1st Class are usually older business types and I assume the two white passengers fit that category. Younger casually dressed people whatever their colour who wouldn't normally travel 1st class would be asked to produce a ticket.
If the two white people were of a similar age to Danny, dressed casually and were not singled out then that would be racism.
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In reply to Post #1471
But it clearly says he was asked for a ticket and two white passengers weren’t. Why only him?
Your point is valid but in relation to Danny Rose and the article it isn’t because it literally proves that it was racist...what’s stopping you accepting that?
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In reply to Post #1470
otherwise all drivers of big cars would be pulled over wouldn't they?
But young white men with expensive cars get pulled over Mal.
A black family man, wife and two kids shouldn't get pulled over without good reason otherwise it's racism
The point I continue to make is I don't think the two examples in that article are particularly good.
Same as the train a young white man travelling in 1st Class will be asked to produce a ticket.
Personally I think all tickets should be checked but if the only one on the train to be checked is a middle aged black man dressed as a business man then that would be racist.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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Some of this is just laughable- or at least it would be if it wasn't so bloody pathetic.
Racism happens everywhere and always will because it's people. .....
Yes. That's the problem that needs to be addressed.
Slavery used to happen everywhere because it was done by people.
Child trafficking happens everywhere because it's done by people.
The abuse of women happens everywhere because it's done by people.
There are people on here who get more wound up about a bloke 'cheating' to catch a fish than they do about the systematic racism in this country. Like I said. It's pathetic.
It's not acceptable for black men to be pulled over because they are black. End of. If he's in a big car it's still not acceptable because he's being pulled over because of his skin colour, not because of the car - otherwise all drivers of big cars would be pulled over wouldn't they? Saying that they are 'involved in crime' is simply part of the systematic race issue. White men are involved in crime too or didn't you notice that? The stop and search / arrests / convictions are DIsproportionally high amongst black men. It's systematic racism within the police and it has been and is being investigated.
Do you think the police don't know who your local dealers are? If you can work it out, then do you really think they are so inept not to have ffs?
Greekskii calls it right. If your attitude to it is that it happens all the time so just get on with it, then you're accepting it. If you don't challenge it, then you're accepting it.
I knew someone would bring up the Wiley thing. He's an idiot and was rightly banned from twitter or whatever. It doesn't make all black men racist because he said what he did - but we all know that. Would you like to be prejudged because of the actions of an idiot white bloke? Of course you wouldn't.
And don't give it the 'it doesn't happen around me' either. Just look at the thread that goose started yesterday that had about 30 views before I challenged it. That's 30 people who thought it was fine to let it go unchallenged.
Like I posted to greekskii- I could put an example of systematic racism on this thread every day. And then someone would add a 'ah but....' response. Not acceptable.
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In reply to Post #1467
Yeah, you’re right it happens to everyone. But that doesn’t justify it as being acceptable.
No one is looking for blame, just the reasons why people are racist and why others find it acceptable to allow it to happen. Sort one or both out and all will be hunky dory. If people dont find it acceptable to be racist anymore then it alienates the racists at any level and society starts to change. But like you, there are those that won’t change their opinion that it’s fine to be racist because racism exists everywhere. Instead of being part of societal change to call out racism and create change.
In terms of Danny rose, the police are to blame as they are the one pulling him over for no reason repeatedly. And the train conductor.
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In reply to Post #1463
The problem is, where did that young person get the money to buy that nice car? Round my way there are a few young undesirables rolling round it shiny new mercs and audis, did they buy them with their dole money? Nope. How about a gift from parents etc? Nope. How about selling crack and smack to all the other little scumbags about.... Yep that's it.
And racism is everywhere, has been and always will be unfortunately. Back in my school days my upper school had a high % of Muslim students and in all honesty most were OK, but the most blatant racists were Muslim kids, and they used to play the racism card because they knew that they'd get away with it.
There will always be racism as long as there are people on this planet
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In reply to Post #1466
No, i am saying its a fact.
What are you going to do, change all skin colours and declare one, then ban country names and call everywhere "the world"
There are MASSIVE barriers to breakdown here and in this country i do believe we have come a very long way. But while ever there are people like you that cannot see beyond their toes, continually looking for blame, it will be a long slow process.
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In reply to Post #1465
You’re saying that racism is acceptable because “it happens to everyone” and make excuses for it. So yes, a sympathiser of racism. Don’t start crying about it. Maybe you didn’t even realise you do it. But you are. Because making an excuse for it means you are saying it’s acceptable. Simple as that.
Both you and tinhead never seem to respond to valid points when people post them. Just ignore it like it never happened. It’s fairly sad tbh.
We all know racism happens everywhere. You act like people thinks it’s only towards black people for some reason to try and justify it happening. “It happens to all races not just blacks” isn’t a valid reason to excuse a racist incident ffs
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In reply to Post #1463
Racism is apparent in every ethic group i have ever had dealings with, white, black, Asians you name it, its there and it always will be while ever there are differences in skin colour or we live in different country's, fact. That is what you have to deal with, the reality, still banging the same old pathetic drum
I mean cmon, don’t expose yourself any further, we already knew you were a racist sympathiser
Is that how low you are. Because i look at things from a different perspective than a moron like you. Still playing the victim card
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In reply to Post #1458
Danny rose is 30 ffs. Not like he’s 18 rolling in a Ferrari or Bentley. He’s more than old enough to have made a lot of money and have nice things. Not that age should be a factor in who can have expensive things at all. You shouldn’t expect to be pulled over if you’ve made money and spent it on a nice car whatever your age. That opens up a whole other level of discrimination that is clearly deemed acceptable by society. Plenty of young millionaires about nowadays due to the internet making it easy to start businesses and make money.
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In reply to Post #1462
Not quite sure how to interpret your post tbh. You start off with “loads of black people commit crime so he should expect to be pulled over”
Then compare a normally dressed black man to a skinny white hood rat criminal saying they both have the same level of suspiciousness.
Then you start talking about a black man making inflammatory comments and asking me if I think it’s okay that he did that, using it as some sort of justification or argument to say “black people can be racist too, so Danny rose experiencing racism is acceptable”
I mean cmon, don’t expose yourself any further, we already knew you were a racist sympathiser
I’ll answer your questions though,
1. No I don’t expect a black man in Doncaster driving an expensive car to be pulled over unless there is reasonable cause to do so, same for anyone.
2. Suspicious circumstances, which contradicts your first point doesn’t it?
3. Wiley is more crackers than Kanye, not sure what set him off, but the comment you’ve quoted below doesn’t make any racially derogatory statements does it? Just that Jews and the KKK no one challenged/challenges. Second part of it makes little sense as it’s evidently not true on a majority, although there is Jews and white supremacists within law enforcement globally. Is it acceptable? This quote on its own is not really causing offence to anyone, combined with the rest of what he said, no it’s not acceptable at all
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In reply to Post #1456
Have you looked at this from a different perspective?
Black people are a minority group and whether you like it or not they are involved with a lot of crime, the facts
So when a black man is driving a flash car in Doncaster do you expect him to get pulled?
I would, just the same as a skinny drug rat with a baseball cap and all the bling driving a flash car
Would you pull over everybody or would you look for suspicious circumstances?
What do you think about the pop star Wiley’s latest comments?
There are two sets of people who nobody has really wanted to challenge. Jewish and KKK … Red Necks are the KKK and Jewish people are the Law … Work that out.
Acceptable?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1460
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In reply to Post #1459
So just be to clear I'll say again I'm sure Danny Rose does suffer racism on and off the football field but the two instances in that Independent article are not the best examples
I know what we write doesn't always come across as we hope on this forum but I hope the above does
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1458
'Young black men singled out on standard class trains and while driving modest cars while white young men not being singled out would definitely be racism.'
or even more simply - young black men being singled out... it happens and it is racism. As he says in the article, it first happened to him when he was 15 - probably not sat in 1st class or driving a very expensive car then...
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In reply to Post #1457
If a casually dressed white man was sitting in 1st class along with a load of business men dressed in suits wouldn't the ticket inspector likely to single him out for ticket inspection.
Same with a young white man driving an expensive car that most young people can't afford.
Not saying Danny Rose has never been a victim of racism because I'm sure he has but young men with loads of money will raise suspicion whatever of the colour of their skin.
Young black men singled out on standard class trains and while driving modest cars while white young men not being singled out would definitely be racism.
So just be to clear I'll say again I'm sure Danny Rose does suffer racism on and off the football field but the two instances in that Independent article are not the best examples
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1456
you know what greekskii - you could post a different story along similar lines on here every day of the week and the sad fact is that some people will still tell you racism isn't a problem - or that it's the fault of black people / absent fathers / democrat governors / societies where people from different cultures have the nerve to live together etc etc
Luckily, there are many who see the truth and strive to do the right thing
The volume may have been turned down but the record is still playing - Black Lives STILL Matter
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click here to view For all those racism deniers out there. You cheer him when he’s got an england shirt on, will you back him now he’s told you racism doesn’t exist?
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In reply to Post #1453
Kanye been on a long journey towards this mental breakdown imo. I hope he actually gets the help he needs, come a long way from when he was making music. Then again it must be hard work being around the Kardashians!!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1453
I think Kanye West lost it a looooong time back....
Doesn't he want to be the next Donald Trump?
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In reply to Post #1452
And an aside is Kanye West loosing it?
Now saying his wife is a white supremist who wants him sectioned.
The world is growing crazy but Kanye is not 😀
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In reply to Post #1448
BLM protests they are ok because it’s for a just cause, misguided in my opinion, But peaceful with only 40 police officers hurt! But ****ing dare to go to the beach or pub for a drink you might as well hang a bell round your neck and a leper sign.
I didn’t do these any of the above I have to much respect for my family and friends 👍🏻
Apologies in advance for being Leperist 😷
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In reply to Post #1450
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In reply to Post #1449
No point with you. You’re consciously an idiot, you don’t even do it accidentally.
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In reply to Post #1448
Key words
1. Celebrations, happy people celebrating
2. Protesters, angry people and rioting
If either group want to socialise then they are both fools but each to their own I guess
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In reply to Post #1447
Don’t really know what your post has to do with anything?
You clearly know what I’m saying in my post.
Not like you to have a problem with a clear fact though is it and try and twist it.
I’ll explain it for you anyway in simple terms just in case though;
British mentality seems to be that football celebrations are okay to not socially distance, not wear masks, not be careful as no one is condemning them on social media. Whereas BLM protests social media was awash with condemning even though many wore masks, many socially distanced and many were careful.
Therefore football seems to trump equality on the list of what’s actually important in the country because it’s acceptable to ignore the pandemic for football but not for equality.
Tbh your mindset seems to be the exact mindset I’m talking about.
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In reply to Post #1444
Football trumps equality apparently
Football has done more for BLM than anything else I have seen. Banning people, banners all over the grounds. BLM on their shirts, BLM one knee stance before kick off
Unless you know any different?
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In reply to Post #1445
Worst thing is, I noted who it was and ive lost respect for for them tbh. Many probably have done it subconsciously as well and don’t even realise their own low-key racist tendencies!!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1444
Same with the regular illegal raves and the flippin madness when the shops opened....
Makes you wonder if it was just an excuse for some people...
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odd times, and I think it says a lot about the mentality of Britain...
My facebook was full of people condemning BLM protests for potential to spread Covid...Liverpool and Leeds fans going bananas with no social distancing doesnt get a mention at all? Football trumps equality apparently. Sad when you think about it.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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John Lewis and Rev CT Vivian RIP
Two key figures in the civil rights movement from the 60s and compatriots of MLK Jr. Involved in moments of positive change that made real difference at the time.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1441
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In reply to Post #1440
Yes and it will be available to everyone except you
You get I'm a dick
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1439
we also need a 'you're a d*ck' smiley...
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In reply to Post #1438
I'm not a fan of analogies so I was on a little wind up
We need a wind up smiley
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1437
it does work for class and wealth - because both of those things are part of the bigger picture that is all linked. it could be applied to gender too i guess. Maybe think of City as being an upper middle class family in Alderley Edge with 2 Range Rovers, 3 dogs, a cleaner, ipads for all, disposable income... (I'm generalising but to make a simple point).
it's about inequalities that can make even a supposed level playing field unbalanced.
i can see how talking about it in football terms might be tricky for a gooner to grasp though...
Peace and love man
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In reply to Post #1436
But in your analogy the Wallets are equivalent to tax avoiding CEO's who get paid an obscene amount. Yes the vast majority of them will be white but your analogy works better when comparing class and wealth. Even Joe Average who is often labelled white privileged can't compete with that.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1435
when in doubt, a football analogy is always useful
I'd be interested in getting that pdf - the link too me to the Kickstart website which I assume isn't what you meant.
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In reply to Post #1434
Agree with a lot of what you say and nicely put
The link i posted earlier to a PDF did not work correctly. But it was an interesting read and does justify quite a bit of what you are saying. I dont dispute it, i dont dispute anything tbh but there are a LOT of factors to address here, its certainly not as clear cut as lot of people seem to think, a lot!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1425
morning scozza
I've never said that there aren't opportunities - just inequalities in those opportunities.
By way of a bit of emotional distance from the subject I'm going to use a footy analogy.
At the start of this season, every team in the Premier League - one could argue - had the chance to become champions. They all start on zero points, they all have to start the game with 11 players on the field, they all play the same number of games and each other home and away. Opportunities for all.
However, some teams are starting with a bigger squad - which means they can cope with unexpected situations like injuries or suspensions. Or a squad with better players - some even having spare better players who would be first choice at other clubs. They have state of the art training facilities for these bigger and better squads.Their 'home' is bigger and better equipped. Some teams know that if it's not going well, they can buy new players in January - and some teams can spend a LOT more on these players. Or they can sack their manager at great expense and bring in a highly paid replacement mid season (hello Jose). Some teams have to borrow players from the better off clubs - but then when they play that parent club that player can't play so the smaller club is disadvantaged and the bigger club is given even more of an advantage. The bigger clubs get to play in more lucrative competitions, widening the gap year on year. Then there are the unquantifiable elements like referees being swayed by the crowd at those big clubs - afraid to go against that mass of public opinion, even subconsciously. Perceptions about certain players being 'divers' or 'dirty' clouding judgement. Those opportunities for all are different now.
Yes there are those smaller clubs who 'work hard and apply themselves'. And on their day they might get a result against one of the bigger teams. But over the course of the season, the inequalities begin to show and the advantages for those bigger clubs take effect. At the end of the season the rewards are based on league position, so there will be clubs (like the Blades) who have worked their backsides off - one could easily argue they have worked harder than the bigger clubs - for ultimately less. And so the gap widens.
Occasionally there will be a team that bucks the trend - brilliant Leicester City. But that's the exception rather than the rule and the status quo is restored pretty quickly because the imbalances and inequalities will always favour the advantaged clubs.
And that's just looking at the Premier League. Further down the spiral it is even tougher. Look at Man City and Wigan over the past few weeks. City can buy their way out of a ban - £9million quid is not so much when you are working in budgets of billions. Wigan are facing points deductions and the resulting financial penalty because they've gone into administration during a pandemic where hundreds of businesses have failed. The inequalities come with further punishment for those who are disadvantaged.
So...
We've got stuck on the job thing - but it IS part of a much bigger picture with some real systematic issues that need addressing. Our society isn't fair - and I do think that we both want it to be. We maybe have differing views on how to get there based on what we see / hear each day.
Education - So much to say there. I agree it is key. And thankyou - I do teach with passion and with pride in my students' work. But that's a system that isn't perfect either. The lockdown has highlighted the huge disparity in opportunity for disadvantaged students even in something so simple as setting work to be done online. That's much easier for some - and practically impossible for others. The gap is widening and that is going to have a knock on effect for years. And that bigger picture comes into play again when you look at wealth disparity and race in the UK... (another can of worms). The government say - get kids back in schools to combat the disparity. Rather than tackle the root causes of it...
Right - I've done my essay now. That report link from Greekskii is worth a read
Hope you have a good day man.
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In reply to Post #1432
Hypothetical solution, do you mean example?
Hypothetical was the word you used... I assume wrongly to describe your solution to black African unemployment.
No point trying to make it out like I've not made sense when it was a re-use of the wording you initially used to describe something
So you wont read the evidence that disproves your "the issue doesnt exist because I say so" theory and continue to believe your own theory. says a lot about your attitude tbh. This discussion will never progress as you will continue to put your head in sand and say "im right, your wrong, doesnt matter if im proven wrong I am still right" so... I'm out
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In reply to Post #1431
you have no response for the studies I linked that show that your view of everyone gets equal opportunities is actually disproved by professionals??
Probably because i did not read them, plenty more **** to get through in this thread
Hypothetical solution, do you mean example?
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In reply to Post #1429
you have no response for the studies I linked that show that your view of everyone gets equal opportunities is actually disproved by professionals??
When the evidence is in front of you, you very quickly don't respond to it, either you didn't read it or you are too proud to admit that you may have it wrong.
As a reply to the other one, from the way your views and opinions come across on here, it is quite believable that you would think that is what the BLM movement want as an outcome. So no, I didn't take it as a hypothetical solution to the issue.
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In reply to Post #1427
You really cannot read between the lines can you. it was hypothetical
Something i would have expected you to agree with thought really, to be fair i am shocked that you did not
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In reply to Post #1426
The reply was not to one of your comments. It was to Mal
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In reply to Post #1417
Mal, Slight issue at the minute............
'Well, we have a new African lady who started this week. I hope she was employed because she was the right person for the job'
your words.
I'll ask again -
Q1 - would you have posed that question if it was a white bloke that had got the job?
No?
Q2 - why might that be?
...
Q1. because of the recent BLM drive are businesses just balancing the ethniticy of there workforce so are employing Black candidates who perhaps are not best for given Jobs but feel under pressure to do so for fear of being called out.......
Q2. As above.
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In reply to Post #1414
Not sure how that relates to anything tbh. You are quite a drastic person aren’t you. Sacking white people to employ black people? That just keeps unemployment at the same level. Maybe sorting out the economy and ensuring businesses thrive so more jobs are available would make more sense as then there would be jobs available for all unemployed people.
Interestingly do those unemployment statistics include people that can’t work as being disabled or not?
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In reply to Post #1425
Didn’t I mention the kickstart programme in my post? Not by name but I thought everyone knew about it was it was national news a few days ago.
It pains me that you base you entire opinion from just your place of work and what they do. Maybe a reality check that not every business operates as yours does. Way way back in this thread I posted a link to a study carried out in 2015 where researchers sent out the exact same CVs with ONLY the names changed to represent different ethnicities. Funnily enough BAME names got less call backs than white British, even though they were qualified and educated exactly the same on the made up CV. That was a proper study, that was peer reviewed and accepted. It far supersedes you’re experience of your one employer and their recruitment policy. The study shows clearly that BAME people were not offered the same opportunity as someone of equal ability that was white British.
Study
there is also this one About a pay gap, which I am always sceptical of but it seems as if they accounted for a number of things and did come out with the conclusion that there is one with white British of the same qualification and education starting on a higher salary. But like I said I am sceptical of pay gap data but it makes interesting reading.
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In reply to Post #1417
No, but since this is about black people and employment or lack of opportunities it is kind of relative to the thread isn’t it. Can’t think why I would mention it otherwise, can you?
And BTW. If the white bloke wasn’t performing he would be treat just the same as others who were not, performance managed. It’s called business
So, you saying they lack opportunities that’s another one to prove you wrong. Not to mention all the other people that are on site. And I have worked for three large corporates now and diversity, as I posted earlier, is big on their agenda, they like to be seen doing the right thing. Good for their image and brand.
You might find this interesting. The last person I set on was a white lad, fantastic attitude, very good qualifications and a brilliant interview. There were a lot of candidates of different ethnicity but they do not get the job because they did not have the qualifications, grades, background and interviewed very poorly. What we do though, we usually choose 2 people during the process so if we offer to the first candidate and he does not accept we can offer to the other. The other candidate was a Thai lad who had some fantastic qualifications and was working in his uncles restaurant as a waiter, very little experience compared to some but had a fantastic attitude and came across as a very friendly person who would integrate well with the team. The key point is getting the right person, we can develop the skills. He would have been working for a black engineer. really nice fella, he works for me, but now the white lad is. Not that I had to tell you this but, you see, your spouting a lot of bollox really.
And for the record. This does not account for all the others though that have come through the gates and gone over the years that I have seen with a ****ing bad attitude. And if you want to tackle something, that’s what you need to be tackling. Bad attitudes because a qualification is only a tick box. So, on what I have seen, I guess some businesses may stereotype people for a reason and since I have experienced it first hand I can see why they do
You should maybe stick to teaching and giving kids the best opportunity in life instead of just another group of helpless lives that come through the system every year because this is where it starts for me. My daughter had a rough time through school, the teaching was horrendous and the school got put on the ofsted report, which didn’t surprise me really. I had a few meetings with the headmistress who’s head was so far up her own arse she could not see daylight, she got sacked though in the end, no surprises though for me. Not to mention the other year tutors who I have had meetings with, one was appalling, we had to listen to him, telling us how it is, not the other way around, listen, why would he want to do that, clueless idiot, would you believe it?
Some people teach with a passion which I think you will Mal and some people teach to earn a living, and that’s the difference, there are ****ers in every sector see. My Mrs and I did some home schooling and I even ended up paying for private lessons to ensure we gave her a good start since school was failing her badly. I have discussed it many time with other parents and it really is heartbreaking when you see all these kids struggling and you know they are not going to have much luck in life, because this is where it all starts. This is one area that needs a massive shake up for starters, schooling. Give people the best start in life. Once you can get the kids to attend school and give it their best shot that is (the parents)
I had an hour on google last night to try and educate myself. This backs your argument up perfectly, surprised you did not find it. There are lots of counter arguments though. There’s a problem though too, this is qualification based. The real things like interview skills and attitudes are not accounted for. And let’s face it, when you see how half of these perform that are on the news, screaming, shouting and rioting I can see why they are not employed
One for Mal
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In reply to Post #1423
Fair enough
I would like to think that although we see things a bit differently underneath it all we are not as apart as it sometimes reads.
10 more minutes and I'm off to bed, goodnight
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1421
That's why I said ' Yeah, but...' as opposed to 'No it isn't'.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1421
Well it's a blessing cause scozza would only complain about you...
I'm done here for tonight. Just posted a blinder in the listening thread for you
Peace and love all
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In reply to Post #1420
But.....
At Scozza's place I could miss out if I'm white because they use positive discrimination.
Jon
The vast majority on here say that racism is a problem. I don't know anyone who has said it isn't a problem
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1418
A persons skin colour or gender does not define their ability to do a job.
Would you be ok to miss out on a job because the previous worker was a white bloke who wasn't very good? No of course you wouldn't because that's not treating YOU fairly. It's a loaded preconception. And that's a problem.
Jon - nail hit on the head
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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1400 posts on this subject.
A minority saying 'racism is s problem'
The majority saying 'yeah, BUT .....'
That's the trouble.
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In reply to Post #1417
Q1
If a large proportion of the previous white blokes were good at their jobs the answer would be no.
If a large proportion of the previous white blokes were not good at their jobs the answer would be yes.
Remove white blokes and insert any combination of colour and sex and get the same result.
Q2
Based upon the previous performance and proportion of the colour/sex of the workers
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1416
'Well, we have a new African lady who started this week. I hope she was employed because she was the right person for the job'
your words.
I'll ask again -
Q1 - would you have posed that question if it was a white bloke that had got the job?
No?
Q2 - why might that be?
...
Please answer Q1 before moving on to Q2
or not - your choice
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In reply to Post #1415
Didn't question that. I question company policies at times based on experiences as I posted before
BLM doesn't say give us jobs and houses. just saying
What does it say then because that’s what most of the banners are that I see on the news?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1404
Are you on something tonight?
What your claiming that I'm saying is not anything like I've actually said.
And you still don't answer my questions. ...
Double standards much?
When black women 'stop complaining and do something' you question whether she's worth the job she applied for, interviewed for and then was appointed for. You can't have it both ways
BLM doesn't say give us jobs and houses. just saying
edit - Greekskii .... 'No one said there wasn’t any opportunities, is this why you’re so irate? Just not always equal opportunities.' I said this ages back but some people have their head in the sand / up their backside....
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In reply to Post #1413
We could sack 151,000 white people and give their jobs to black people?
Bit unfair but it’s a quick way to address the balance, 75,500 could be better, evens it out?
Look at the figures, black peoples are a minority, 3 out of every 100 so don’t except to see their faces everywhere, 3 out of every 100 TV presenters that you see, 3 out of every....
Now what you could do is dig down even further to try and understand why there are 151,000 unemployed?
But ultimately we need to get all these people employed, the dream would be loads of businesses stood around wanting labour because there was not enough to go around?
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In reply to Post #1412
Now heres the question for a clever lad like you. How are you going to get all these people working and earning a good living?
The governments seems to be set to pay their wages now. The young ones anyway. Upskilling people, re-training them, etc. With Priti Patels new immigration system there will be plenty of minimum wage jobs going soon enough they can do. Is that not the main of brexit, to stop those foreigners stealing Jobs?
I’m not quite sure what problem you want me to solve? %wise more black people are unemployed than white? Even though there is 28x more white english than black Africans, there is 12x more unemployed whites than black Africans. Makes sense that the conclusion to be drawn is that even though there are 28:1 white:black African in the population, it’s only 12:1 on unemployment.
Funnily enough you do understand that black African doesn’t include all black people right? Black British, black Caribbean, etc. Arent included in your figures.
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In reply to Post #1411
Here’s the problem for you to solve based on the 2011 census figures
White English 48,160 000 people (86% of the population)
4% unemployed, around 1, 926 400
Black African 1,680 000 people (3% of the population)
9% unemployed, around 151,000
Interestingly black unemployment has come down a long way over the last few years
Now heres the question for a clever lad like you. How are you going to get all these people working and earning a good living?
BLM - We want jobs and houses
And don’t forget to ensure they have the education and skills the employer requires, if you can find one of course
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In reply to Post #1410
I detailed all my answers as to what can be done well down this thread but to some up. In fact I gave you some things that could be done in my last post Did you not read it?
It happens to all races, yes, but not in the same proportions. If poverty was distributed equally I don’t see see why there would be a racial inequality issue in terms of poverty. But fact of the matter is, it isn’t distributed equally. Which leads to the other inequalities we see in race, incarceration figures, knife and gun crimes, etc. It’s all linked. And it isn’t solely down to a lazy attitude is it.
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In reply to Post #1407
You raise some points I can relate to for once. And why the stance is still the same for me. ALM because the things that you mention effect all in this country, so, round and round again, what are we going to do about it?
Stop calling people by their skin colour (which is wrong)
Do something, which is what I asked you many posts ago and you went round the houses, because as now, you can spout crap all day but you can’t provide any answers can you?
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1408
The only satisfying part of my day is pulling up in my **** estate and getting out of my **** car and crossing the threshold into my **** abode
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In reply to Post #1405
Yeah but you can't put a price on job satisfaction
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In reply to Post #1402
No one said there wasn’t any opportunities, is this why you’re so irate? Just not always equal opportunities.
Opportunities are harder to access, harder to come by, not the same opportunities that others may have, etc. If your poor you don’t get the same opportunities as a rich kid. You can’t tell me that you believe a clever poor child going to a rubbish school has the same opportunity as a clever better off kid going to a better school? When you throw in social and environmental factors it all adds together. Some of the most prolific criminals are geniuses ffs. Putting food on the table or looking after your siblings or even disabled parents all come first, a clever kid misses out on education because of the need to support the household. Opportunity is there but they have other priorities. An example of how easily someone ends up staying in poverty and potentially a criminal as they wanted quick cash. So you look at the government statistics, double the amount of black people in poverty than white. Well why is that? It’s simple, they were started in poverty and it’s been a rough ride to get out of poverty. Governments never help the poor, when they say they will they get lambasted by MSM and media because they have the view as you do scozza, poor people are lazy.
No brain capacity to process the reasons behind poverty, why so many, why do they struggle to get out of poverty, etc. And no brain capacity to do anything about it; better fund schools in poor areas, community centres, apprenticeships, whatever it may be. It never happens because people that aren’t poor don’t like poor people getting help, because then there isn’t someone beneath them. Again, this happens everywhere but it’s a typical British trait. “We won the war against the Germans” when comparatively the Germans are better than us as a country and global power. “The French are cowards” when France show they are a step ahead or beat england at a sport. Having to try and be better by grasping to historical things which have no bearing on the context of anything. A sad state of affairs.
It’s why the above described people don’t like it when they realise there are people that exist that actually want to help pull people up the ladder instead of keep treading on their fingers as they try to climb.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1405
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1404
To be fair I have worked my Jacob’s off and have pretty much f-all. Hard work doesn’t always equal just reward.
Probably the absent father, french, welsh and Jewish heritage.
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In reply to Post #1398
if there was no racial inequality then the numbers of 'successful' black men and women would be higher.
You see, your just typical of the situation aren’t you. Far easier to put barriers up isn’t it.
There’s a reason they are successful, they have done something about their situation. They could have sat around and complained all day that everything is unfair but they havent have they. They have done something
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1401
If I were a rapper I couldn’t do any covers and drop n bombs either, cést la vie
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In reply to Post #1397
Clearly there’s a HUGE problem Nationally for it
I wonder if all these Germans in our country are blaming this for their lack of success?
I doubt it. Now they are a nation of ambitious people if ever I have seen one!
You see, I don’t doubt there is some racism about, look at the 12 year old kid who has just got done for racially abusing the footballer. Mmmmm, 12 years old, I wonder why that is? **** wit father?
It will always be there for a long time to come and there is **** all the government can do about it, yes they can change the education system but there will always be bell ends in life.
We are in a completely different place to where we were 50 years ago, 40, 30 etc and things are going in the right direction but do not ever tell me there are no opportunities in our country, there are plenty if you want to do something about, end of story
Unless you want to blame everything and everybody, far easier ain’t it
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In reply to Post #1399
If I were to say black people were fast runners due to their heritage I could be accused of being racist?
In reply to Post #1400
Isn't the government a bunch of liars and can't be trusted?
That's a joke BTW
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some of you might want to download this report
You know, where government statistics state that by race, poverty is double in black than it is in white. In fact white poverty is lowest out of any race. Are you really saying that the cause of that is solely because of laziness?
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1394
I know plenty of people of most races. As far as we know most are descended from migrants who came to work from Africa, Asia, Europe and the Caribbean; the percentage of the black population here who are directly related to freed slaves is minuscule compared to the US.
Although those from the Caribbean obviously came to be there through the slave trade. I remember Michael Johnson during the olympics talking about natural selection/survivors of the journey creating populations in the Caribbean and southern states who were genetically supercharged and to this day dominate most sports. Not really relevant but I find it interesting
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1396
do you know what 'in spite of' means....?
if there was no racial inequality then the numbers of 'successful' black men and women would be higher.
your argument simply doesn't hold up.
the problem - as Greekskii has said - is that there are too many BAME people who are being held back from 'success' - sometimes even from a basic fair crack of the whip. I'm off for my government approved walk.
and you haven't answered my questions....
have a good evening man
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In reply to Post #1394
I bet your one of those who dont like the Germans because they bombed your grandads chip shop in the war!
Quite the opposite because I’m not thick And they did a lot worse than bomb my grandad, he was one of the polish that made the journey through Siberia after having to flee the nazis, starting at the age of 14.
But like I said, I know the difference because I have brain cells. I’m not part of the “ten German bombers” tw*ts every time England play Germany. Just shows how un educated people aren’t doesn’t it, sadly on a match day there are hundreds of thousands of them up and down the country. Clearly there’s a HUGE problem Nationally for it. Should the British stop being lazy and educate themselves properly so they don’t sing, what you could call racist, songs about past events? A societal issue which needs addressing.
It’s funny how you get me so wrong, goes to show you don’t actually read anything I post properly.
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In reply to Post #1389
Perhaps because IN SPITE of systematic racial inequality
See, your talking rubbish again to try and justify your claims. If there was all this inequality they wouldn’t have got on would they!!!
Maybe it’s because they have done well at school, progressed through university, have good communication skills, can conduct themselves in a proper manner and get the respect they deserve instead of been a complete bell end, like I have already said, same with white folks too
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1393
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In reply to Post #1382
But if we want to get very simplistic then yes it is white peoples fault that black people have issues in this country, why? Because black people were bought over and asked to come to live and work here by white people. That started a long journey off and here we are today. If they hadn’t then it would be a different picture all together.
And that’s the whole problem isn’t it. Something that was right 100s of years ago. That’s called history, it’s gone, done with, something to reflect on and learn from. Maybe that’s the next step forward, forget about the past, we cannot do absolutely anything about it, done
I bet your one of those who dont like the Germans because they bombed your grandads chip shop in the war!
Just like your love of the police. You need to drop it, if you can’t then don’t expect anything to change, and guess what, that’s the same with everything else
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In reply to Post #1389
the biggest barrier to that is people denying there's a problem
I don't think anyone on here is saying there isn't a problem Mal. We can agree with that
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1390
alright fishie? survived the river?
Dawn Butler may well have told porkies about rough sleeper numbers. No excuse for that and it's wrong.
It doesn't for one second excuse the racist abuse she - and her staff - have suffered though. The attacks have been based on her colour - not on her political comments.
As for MP's and schools / left wing politics, that's maybe for another thread?
I agree about positive role models - it's just stereotyping to assume that all black kids want to be rappers etc. as mentioned a few posts down on here. There's a nice quote regarding aspiration - 'you have to see it to be it'. If young BAME kids can see their role models in industry, management, finance, teaching, Police etc. then they can more readily aspire to it. It's been an argument for getting more girls into STEM subjects for years.
The story about you and your mate is great and credit to him for his approach. You might get accused of it being a 'fluffy' story but what the hell eh? If that was the norm across all areas then we'd have a lot less to worry about. Unfortunately it's not yet.
edit - tinhead, yeah i recall the discussion about it. it's scozza's perception of his workplace. and we also discussed the reasons why positive discrimination has had to persist. no going round in circles allowed.... although i do recall asking him a question back then that he never answered...
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In reply to Post #1389
You seem to be suspicious of her appointment in the role
Going back a few days I seem to remember Scozza saying there's a lot of positive discrimination in his firm and that not always the best person was chosen. Now that can happen from time to time but if it becomes common then over time most people will become suspicious
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In reply to Post #1378
The same Dawn Butler who claimed to have 3,000 people sleeping rough in her constituency whilst the actual verified number of rough sleepers was 3,900 in the whole country 😡
The left do not want equality in the country whether it be north/south, rich/poor or black/white they thrive on division. How many Labour MP’s send their kids to private schools? I can think of 2 black MP’s who did not want their children educated in London state schools for a start! I wonder why for a party of the people?
Role models are required in all sectors not just rappers, DJ’s or sportsmen. I am talking about industry, health, finance, building and the likes. And let the black community shoulder some of the responsibility for this. They have to motivate their youth the same way the Asian community push their children forward. My mate joined the job at the same time I decided to specialise he decided on promotion. One black one white but motivated, we both decided to apply for different roles at the same time and he was told to take his application in person so they could see he was black. His reply was I don’t use my colour, if they want me they want me it’s on merit. We both got our roles 😀
My grandson who is 3/4 black his mother my step daughter was dual heritage and his father Jamaican. He was a pain growing up and always in trouble with the law and was taken into care at one stage. He turned 18 last year and has been unemployed since school. He had a child late last year and this has completely changed him. He got a job as a bin man via an agency in April at the start of COVID. He started with 20 others, black/white/asian. Now 4 months on he is still working has been offered a full time direct job and is the only one out of 20 still working. He has grown up, wants to give his son everything he should have and he sees the only way of doing this is working and supporting him. People just need focus, motivation and a will to succeed.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1385
you're posting pish again - in fact the same pish you post on here all the time.
it's you going round in circles with your 'i know some black blokes who don't work hard' and 'everyone has the same opportunities' and 'there's no racism where I live' sh*te.
Has it occurred to you that those blokes you work with might appear to have a chip on their shoulder because they have to hear your bull repeatedly? Maybe they just don't like you. Did you ever work with any white blokes who are lazy or have a bad attitude? Care to share those pearls of wisdom?
To answer your question 1
Perhaps because IN SPITE of systematic racial inequality, they have persevered and found opportunities where their skin colour has not been used as a reason to hold them back.
feel better now?
out of interest - are we viewing the fact that the black woman got a job at your place as a positive? - she's been successful in taking one of those 'opportunities for everyone' after all. You seem to be suspicious of her appointment in the role - would that be because she's black? or a woman? Would you have bothered to question it if a white bloke had got the job?
now - care to answer my question about Dawn Butler? Is there no problem with racism there? Is it her own fault? or because some black families have absent fathers?
as for nothing moving forward - the biggest barrier to that is people denying there's a problem and hence taking no positive action. simple really
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In reply to Post #1384
Don’t really get how that is a response to my post. There would be no black people in this country if white
People didn’t force and also ask them to come here. There would be no successful black people, nor would there be any poor ones either. That is why it is on a very simplistic level it is white peoples fault that black people have issues in this country.
Saying there is some successful doesn’t mean all of them are and there are no issues
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In reply to Post #1385
You answered the question? They had good upbringings. Successful black people aren’t the ones with an issue when it comes to poverty. I’m not quite sure what it proves that black people are successful in this country? That there isn’t an issue with poverty? Or that there is no systemic issues in any communities because there are rich people? By your way of thinking issues don’t exist in any communities because there are rich people of every race in this country. Racism doesn’t exist because some people are successful?
You never answer my questions either tbf. Why are black single parent households fairing worse than white single parent households? Is it solely a race issue because you seem to make it out that it’s only an issue for black people?
Your only answer is that there is no issue, apart from lazy people. Which is mind boggling tbh. Head in sand merchant. Never make anything better because you are scared to admit the truth.
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In reply to Post #1384
We must be doing something right
WE as a country provide the opportunities, schooling etc
I think the key word is THEY
Because THEY have made it happen and made a success of themselves
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Neither of you have answered Q1. To be fair I would not expect you to, because you know it’s a fact
You see, I know more than you think. My Mrs grew up in Sheffield and there’s a pattern there, absent fathers, similar to rest of the communities. I’ve had a lot of dealings with them too, some brilliant people and some complete and utter bell ends.
You two keep on looking for the fluffy things in life, that why nothing moves forward because of people like you. Plenty of this
And no answers
Opportunities for all, if people really want it
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In reply to Post #1382
Cut and paste
Q1. Why are there so many successful black people in the U.K.?
They probably had a good up bringing, concentrated and did well at school, have ambition installed in them and the drive to do well. They want to be a success
We must be doing something right
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In reply to Post #1377
Why is the single father thing only a black issue? Do white single parent families fair better for some reason then?
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In reply to Post #1379
It’s funny that’s all you see when people say there are multiple reasons for deprivation in all communities and particularly in black ones.
But if we want to get very simplistic then yes it is white peoples fault that black people have issues in this country, why? Because black people were bought over and asked to come to live and work here by white people. That started a long journey off and here we are today. If they hadn’t then it would be a different picture all together.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1378
touches on some of the same stuff - appalling reflection of what goes on daily.
scozza - couple of articles posted. maybe have a read about some of the racist comments you are 'positive' aren't part of the problem - or is it just her own fault because of something you read about absent black fathers?
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In reply to Post #1379
Always easier to blame everything and everybody else
After all, we are a communist country and there are no opportunities for anybody in the U.K.
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In reply to Post #1377
From what I’m reading on here lately I’m getting the impression that we (white people ) are to blame for their actions and it’s not their fault.
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Well, we have a new African lady who started this week. I hope she was employed because she was the right person for the job
See we are going round and round again.
Q1. Why are there so many successful black people in the U.K.?
They probably had a good up bringing, concentrated and did well at school, have ambition installed in them and the drive to do well. They want to be a success
Q2. Why are there so many unsuccessful black people in the country?
They probably did not have that father figure around to give them the support and direction when they needed it. Probably because there father was a bell end and was not about?
Possibly a few other reasons too, one thing for sure, I’m positive it is nothing to do with racists comments?
Here’s one for you to consider. A lot of the black men that I have dealt with have had a very bad attitude, can be extremely aggressive and have a proper chip on their shoulder. Then you wonder why nobody will employ them or they can’t hold a job down
Similar situation with the Tommy Robinson gang, bad attitude, world owes them a living, can’t hold a job down, don’t want a job, want 30k a year to get out of bed with no skills and a ****ing bad attitude
Please answer Q1. Before you attempt answer Q2.
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In reply to Post #1373
So basically poor people need to sort their own sh*t out but people that arent poor can have their sh*t sorted by the government??
Wonder where inward reflection would lead...lets go on a journey... why are more of this community in prison? well because we have more criminals....why do we have more criminals? because we are poor and quick easy money cash helps us out, because the gangs that operate and prey on the poor groom children to work for them so kids enter a life of crime from a young age, because poor people are statistically more likely to suffer from mental health issues, anger issues, and generally be more anxious because sometimes they dont know how they will pay for their next meal, all of this leads to friction and volatility....okay so why are we poor then? because of crime, because single parent households, etc.
Or maybe some more logical reflection from everyone... why are so many of this community in prison? well (and this is true of America btw) For small amounts of drug possession there’s more black people in jail than there is for rape and armed robbery and murder put together. In America prison is private, $50,000 per inmate on average, its big business. In the UK we have only 14 privately run prisons, just shy of £40,000 per prisoner (10,500 of them in 2018). It's mega money. It's socially engineered to keep the poor poor. most of them are in council housing, which could be made nicer but it isn't. the schools in the areas are underfunded when they should be better funded than schools in well off areas.
There is so much to delve in to I haven't got the time tbh.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1373
Hi Aidey
fair enough and thanks for replying to clarify. You are right about the way forum posts can work / not work at times.
I'm passionate about this - you might have guessed
I agree that rightly convicted criminals should be in prison (or whatever the sentence might be). I've heard a lot lately about the black community not doing enough to combat knife crime / black on black crime. The 'white community' is never given that same responsibility for tackling knife crime (yes, white people carry knives too) or white on white crime. It's accepted that the Police will do that job (as it is their job). Inequality of expectation there?
I'm also not saying that any community is perfect and doesn't have its' own set of unique issues. Simply that these issues don't always stem from within the community, but are often a response to the bigger picture - in this case systematic race inequality.
I'm not sure if people are forgetting George Floyd's name, but I agree that the picture has widened hugely. By way of an analogy, his death was like a stone in a pond and the ripples are spreading. Even today with the Washington Redskins changing their name - after many years of request from the Native american community. It might not have mean too much to some white American NFL fans, but it is important for others.
I'm glad you started this thread - others might be done with it by now, but it's opened up some really good debate.
here's one to consider - not a lazy gang banger complaining, but an elected MP trying to help in a community and suffering threats in relation to her colour...
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/11/have-assaulted-attacked-will-never-silenced-12975181/?ito=push-notification&ci=22331&si=9412819
Have a good day man
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In reply to Post #1368
"That should read as "parts of the black community". However, there is no doubt at all that there needs to be some serious inward reflection by the black community, and they need to ask some serious questions as to why their children are disproportionately in prison, involved in gang crime, involved in knife crime, involved in black on black crime, and why the likes of Trident are still in existence. Nothing is improving, it's only getting worse.""
They? We live in Britain in 2020 mate. Do you not think it's a British problem to solve? Why's nothing improving if we've known the problems leaving people and areas behind causes? Inward reflection is definitely needed and you need to broaden your views on by who.
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In reply to Post #1371
Thanks for the reply Mal, I forgot about the work that community groups undertaken in the community, as well as within prisons so thanks for the reminder.
To address a couple of your answers....
Either you are so ignorant on what you are posting about that you didn't know (and couldn't be bothered to do a 2 second google search), or you used that term intentionally to be insulting and provocative which of course would be moronic.
It was tongue in cheek. People have forgotten his name because the focus has shifted from his unlawful killing to mindless rioting and looting, of which does more to damage poorer communities.
'Their Asian mayor' - Who's mayor exactly? The Black community? Why just 'their' mayor - because his skin is a different shade? Sounds like something Tommy Robinson might say in one of his moronic moments
I meant residents of London, of which knife crime and gang crime are ever increasing despite the work of youth and community services. Hence why I said nothing is being achieved. One step forward...
Mal, don't take my badly constructed words literally. The only problem with this platform is you aren't face to face, so detecting sarcasm is difficult! I don't see colour when I speak to someone, I hate everyone equally , so no need imply that I have a issues with certain people just because of the level of melatonin they possess.
I would be interested to learn more about the Police investigation, as that is one that will have interesting consequences. However, with the black lads I met within prison, they weren't tax evaders, shop lifters or joy riders, the vast majority were "gang bangers", drugs dealers and murderers. All of whom should be in jail, right?
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In reply to Post #1368
I guess it's Boris' fault as well that a huge number grow up without a father figure.
Funnily enough some of his children are growing up without him as a father figure
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1370
If you really find the EDL etc. so moronic then maybe don't write posts that could easily be attributed to them eh?
To address a couple of your points...
'whatshisname' - He was called George Floyd. Either you are so ignorant on what you are posting about that you didn't know (and couldn't be bothered to do a 2 second google search), or you used that term intentionally to be insulting and provocative which of course would be moronic.
'Their Asian mayor' - Who's mayor exactly? The Black community? Why just 'their' mayor - because his skin is a different shade? Sounds like something Tommy Robinson might say in one of his moronic moments. Are you implying he only represents the black community because of his skin colour. In that case - using that same logic, no wonder we are in such a state with the white racists Prime Minister in charge...
'a single convenient coat peg' - 'trust me' there's nothing convenient about decades of systematic racism. Well not for those who have experienced it anyway.
'disproportionately in prison' - already been posts here about racial profiling and the far greater likelihood of stop and search / charges / convictions for young black men. There are investigations happening right now within the Police force to address the problem.
your comments on the black community not looking inwards simply show your ignorance of the situation. You seem to be unaware of the work done within the black community on a daily basis to help redress the balance. And equally unaware that this work has been repeatedly hindered by years of cuts to youth and community services making it impossible to run projects / fund youth workers and centres / food banks / knife, drug and gang related initiatives. It's why the term 'systematic' racism is used. It runs through the system, not just individuals.
'what have we achieved ... nothing' - again, showing either ignorance or purposeful denial. Lots has been achieved already and more is being put in place to ensure that the good start continues. Industries are looking at their policies and practices. Educational establishments are openly admitting the need for change. Awareness is hugely increased. Maybe you really haven't noticed - but then maybe you don't need to.
I'm not going to bother with the ridiculous stereotyping. Or the contradiction in terms of role models.
If you are interested enough to start a thread then go have a look at what's happening - really happening - outside too. You might be surprised.
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In reply to Post #1369
Mal,
Trust me, I find the likes of Britain First, EDL and the BNP/NF before them to be absolute brain dead morons just like you and the vast majority.
I just feel the black community need to look within and address some pressing issues before hanging all their coats on a single convenient coat peg.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1368
Well...
Perhaps decades from now parts of the white community (to borrow your phraseology) will realise that they are talking utter sh*te when it comes to dismissal of racial inequality in 2020...
We can but hope eh?
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In reply to Post #1366
That should read as "parts of the black community". However, there is no doubt at all that there needs to be some serious inward reflection by the black community, and they need to ask some serious questions as to why their children are disproportionately in prison, involved in gang crime, involved in knife crime, involved in black on black crime, and why the likes of Trident are still in existence. Nothing is improving, it's only getting worse. Their Asian mayor seems to get off lightly in the criticism when it comes to the amount of young black children dying in the streets too, of which I have had the displeasure of witnessing.
I fully recognise that there are black people from poor backgrounds who have succeeded in life. My issue is with those in poorer communities who have no aspirations apart from creating wealth through any means possible as they have no positive role models. That is their problem, and not the fault of the posh boy Etonians in which the black community choose as an easy target for their woes. I guess it's Boris' fault as well that a huge number grow up without a father figure.
To dismiss the above as just stereotyping, or even worse as "racism" just allows the issues to fester even more.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1366
I don't know... I'd say it was pretty much like it....
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In reply to Post #1365
"Decades from now, the black community will still be blaming others without looking within, and still not recognising it's their lack of ambition and self victimisation that is holding them back, not whitey."
Nothing like full on racial stereotyping
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In reply to Post #1364
Jesus, haven't looked at this post since I created it, and 92 pages later, what have we achieved since whatshisname died?
Nothing.
Oh, apart from America showing itself up as the hormonal teenager that it is. Thankfully, people get older and wiser. This means the doughnuts in Seattle that are rioting, creating autonomous zones and living off daddy's hedge fund, will thankfully grow up and contribute to society once they get into their "gammon" years.
Decades from now, the black community will still be blaming others without looking within, and still not recognising it's their lack of ambition and self victimisation that is holding them back, not whitey. If your role model as a 16 year old is a drug dealer with facial tattoos rapping about trainers, jewellery and women, are you REALLY surprised that you're not the CEO of a company? I guess going round committing racial motivated offences against innocent white members of the public due to a copper kneeling on a burglars neck will REALLY help your cause, and put you on a great path to being an upstanding civil servant, doctor, lawyer etc etc.
Talking of doctors, the Indians who arguably come from a much poorer society must sit there pissing themselves laughing at the excuses that come from Americans. Especially when those oppressed Americans are tweeting from $900 dollar phones and wearing $200 trainers...
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1363
another leap from what I said... maybe our wires are a bit crossed?
I agree - one incident is too many. If it was only one that would be so much progress from where we are right now.
The first story really got my back up tbh. - and it's back on thread track too of course...
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In reply to Post #1362
One is one too many but let's not get the idea we are mass exporting racism to the states of all places.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1361
another isolated case to add to the rest of the isolated cases every day....
and that's just the ones that do make the news.
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In reply to Post #1360
Looks like an isolated case which is why it's made the news.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/08/cop-who-held-george-floyds-legs-died-asks-charges-dismissed-12964399/?ito=push-notification&ci=21927&si=9412819
Really?!?!?!?!?!
F***ing pathetic excuse for a person. He held his legs and then claims he wasn't aiding the man's death? F***ing coward and the person who is 'defending' him needs a slap too.
Also - for those who are convinced racism isn't a problem....
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/08/british-ceo-calls-family-celebrating-birthday-restaurant-fg-asian-piece-st-12960381/?ito=push-notification&ci=21920&si=9412819
We're exporting our racists too now it seems...
Black Lives Matter
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12042712/beyonce-faking-african-american-really-italian-congress-candidate-kw-miller-claims-twitter/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly
The new Donald....
Scary thing about it is that there will be some dumb sods who would vote for him....
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1355
Terry at Eurovision was a role model for us all.
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In reply to Post #1356
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1354
More statue fun. Purely for laughs.
https://youtu.be/PEFc68D0lH4
Enjoy keebs
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In reply to Post #1351
Pastor Kidneys anyone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdWnTa9X2NI
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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Perhaps for balance they should’ve put an edl supporter on the spot and asked about somebody like Marcus Garvey. Communities often only educate to suit their agenda as greekski has pointed out and why I think history is dangerous for developing minds.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1351
And thrown at the kitchen wall to see if you're ready?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1345
You need to be heated to around 85 degrees for a couple of minutes, then cooled and kept in an airtight container. Or something like that.
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In reply to Post #1348
She could be asked about those things but I doubt statue and street names were mentioned on the job spec.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1347
You little scamp you...
Tinhead - me too. I'm out. Come and have a laugh in the footy thread
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In reply to Post #1344
She's Chair of Lambeth independent police advisory group so she may be asked about statues and street names.
I can see this going into yet another tit for tat in this thread, so I'm done and will allow others to have the last word
Thanks Keebs
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Shameless popcorn-grabbing job on my part, posting that vid within a vid.
There's a little something for everyone isn't there?
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In reply to Post #1345
None by the looks of it
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In reply to Post #1340
What skills and qualifications should you have to get a job as a Pastor?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1343
I'm not excusing her lack of knowledge tinhead. Like I said I doubt that lambeth council seek her advice on matters of British history. More likely on matters of local community.
And I did also put the loony coco pops woman in the bin with no objection then.
At least this lady isn't in a position to make decisions that affect the country like .... well, take your pick really
And if he feels strongly about this one woman saying something dumb on tv then that's ok for him. He can put that news item in the bin.
Peace and love man. Have a good day.
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In reply to Post #1341
Mal stop throwing stuff in the bin that doesn't meet your agenda.
If it's a one off like you say it is maybe, just maybe he feels strongly about it?
If he's done this many times then you would say he's biased.
Either way you'd bin it
The worrying thing is this woman, the job she's doing and the way the TV interviewer let her off the hook.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1339
South London, we’re the pride of Britain
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1340
It seems there are a few unqualified advisers around lately.
I doubt she's an adviser on British history....
The guy starts his video by saying he'd do the same for any person of any colour, gender etc. who was saying something similarly stupid. I wonder if he has, or if he's just done it with this woman...
Edit... just looked at his other content. No examples of the many others he could have called out.... there is one of him moaning that hes racist cause he has a master bedroom or something. Not hard to see some people's agendas. He can go in the bin with the other attention seekers (like the breakfast cereal woman).
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In reply to Post #1339
Talk about giving jobs to people without the required skills, can anyone defend this?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kEho457p0s
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In reply to Post #1336
It also brings job happiness. I know plenty that just work for the money and don’t really enjoy it or never envisaged themselves in that line of work and still have different aspirations.
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In reply to Post #1335
it’s just the way of getting there
Was trying to say this all along, I started at what I see is the biggest challenge
School should run until 18 standard. Ideally progress to mandatory 3 years higher education or skills standard. At this point I’m sure kids know what they will want, sorry, young adults
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In reply to Post #1333
See, we do actually agree it’s just the way of getting there. Schools put so much emphasis on going to sixth form, if your aren’t they don’t really offer much support sadly. You let a non academic kid do an NVQ in a trade and they will apply themselves to the basics quals for math, English and science. Because they are happier.
Me, I was lucky that I knew what I wanted to do from a young age and I chose my GSCEs at 14 to set me on that path for the subsequent A levels for my degree. I was one of the very few that knew. The pressure on 13/14yr olds to define the course of their life by picking GSCEs is insane imo.
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In reply to Post #1330
Not teachers, they have their pressures so they don’t get sacked. Curriculum yeah, it’s set and kids learn what they are taught. I don’t know about you but in school I learnt of the Romans, Wild West, colonisation of America, Saxons, medieval Britain, ww1, WW2, British history (with the empire removed from it of course), Vietnam war, Ireland and probably a few things I’ve forgotten. I learnt about plenty of bad things, but not the empire. Funny that Plenty of my friends that didn’t study off their own back now; hate Germans, hate the French, hate the Argentines, don’t understand why there are lots of Indian and Caribbean people here, don’t know what the Boer war was and most of all believe Britain has never set a foot wrong in its history.
To me, that is not right. And it’s what creates a society which doesn’t tolerate and allows low key racism to exist. The causal racist. Like Dean Cowell, banned again for racial comments towards me on a thread I wasn’t even involved in.
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In reply to Post #1331
Plenty of jobs out there, have you been on recruitment websites? Literally hundreds of thousands. Or at least there was before the pandemic. Ups kill people and get them in work. Simple as that.
Agree. This is something they could look into
I think the sad thing in a way is kids don’t get it. At school, next thing, 16 and out on their arses and expected to crack on in life, difficult times for them, they don’t really know what they want to do. I speak from first hand experience with my daughter
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In reply to Post #1329
Not everyone is academic and they should be catered for.
Now we are talking
I agree. In such circumstances there should be much more hands on and skills based opportunities but they still have to go through the basic schooling practices sadly. Academic qualifications are not the be and end all but until companies still benchmark with them that’s where we are sadly
For me practical experience is everything
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In reply to Post #1327
You’re saying the same thing over and over. We all get it. You believe that people have to work as hard as they need to get an equal opportunity. One person that might be hardly at all due to circumstances, others it might be every second of their life. You believe that is fair and right. You don’t believe in discriminated against people getting to have equal opportunity, they have to work harder.
Why do I sound victimised? Because I can see inequality and not ignore it and want better for the world?
I feel sad for people that discriminate and victimise people. I’ve been racially discriminated against loads in my life, despite being born here. Am I bitter? No it never bothered me too much.
Plenty of jobs out there, have you been on recruitment websites? Literally hundreds of thousands. Or at least there was before the pandemic. Ups kill people and get them in work. Simple as that.
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In reply to Post #1329
I think you're being harsh on the teachers and curriculum if you think they teach us good them bad mate.
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In reply to Post #1325
I get it but when you don’t teach people about their own history and cultures and will teach them other countries atrocities it’s purely a case of hiding it.
To be perfectly honest I think there should be an entire overhaul of the education system. Not everyone is academic and they should be catered for. Goes back to some of the stuff scozza mentions, lack of ambition because they don’t want to do academic based learning? Or maybe give them some tools and they’d love it.
Offering trades and other opportunities as part of GCSEs would really keep more kids in school as they won’t feel worthless like the current system makes them feel. Give the kids an opportunity to do something they are interested in and they’ll enjoy it more, and work harder to get the basic GCSE maths, English and science.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1323
That’s what I’m saying, don’t teach of any atrocities until the emotional maturity and required time are available. We were made to watch roots at school, what did it achieve? Caused huge fights between black and white kids!
Also a lot of these historic ‘racists‘ can be just as easily labelled as ‘of the time’.
I’m not condoning it but how far do we go? You said yourself equality won’t happen overnight and these people were X years behind us and we are essentially nowhere in the struggle
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In reply to Post #1326
Do you feel victimised in life, you sound like a very bitter person?
You need to read and more importantly understand my previous posts, it’s a fact that some people have it and some do not and until everybody gets an opportunity such as a job there always will be, as I said earlier flowerpot, there ain’t enough jobs, what should we do?
Bang on about history what we cannot change only learn from
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In reply to Post #1322
So you don’t want equality then. Part of the issue then aren’t you. I feel sad for you tbh that that’s how you view life ”if you’re disadvantaged then screw you, work harder than others to get the same thing when you shouldn’t have to”
Suppose you think paraplegics should crawl up stairs instead of getting ramps for wheelchairs too
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In reply to Post #1323
Greekski, we had this the other day and it wasn't really about democracy, I was hoping you'd realise. It was about how difficult it is to choose which bits you teach. There's better things to be taught about in school's as Noj says. If you have the inclination it's something to do in your own time
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In reply to Post #1320
Like I said earlier,you may believe in individualism as a cure for all ills but society is changing. Even Johnson recently acknowledged "there really is such a thing as society" during this COVID-19 lockdown, quite a slap in the face for Thatcherite's.
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In reply to Post #1319
Just teaching the ‘good’ bits isn’t really teaching history though is it. Look when Churchill got racist sprayed on his statue. Everyone saying it isn’t true. Well it was, they were just uneducated because of the curriculum not teaching them about their own heritage and the basis of their own society. Happy to teach the kids about other people’s atrocities though. Maybe people would actually understand why there are people of other ethnic groups in this country if they learnt about the empire and subsequent commonwealth.
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In reply to Post #1321
It’s called life, and that how it is in most places of the world. Compared to others we are in an exceptional position, you need to remember and respect this. Life is what you make it flowerpot
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In reply to Post #1320
Again, having to work harder to get equality isn’t equality is it
What’s equal about one person having to work 3x as hard to get the same opportunities. Honestly can’t make it up how you don’t understand what equality actually is
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In reply to Post #1317
Realist
Not like you flowerpot, 🌹 idealist
And equality is there if people are prepared to work toward it, otherwise, get what you get
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1317
I don’t think forcing the teaching of past atrocities on kids at school and leaving history teachers to explain them on already limited time is fair and too open to being interpreted differently regionally and from one individual to another. Further education of young adults is different..
Parents should have the responsibility of raising their own children to be understanding of different cultures and leave teachers to concentrate on the curriculum. It’s not hidden history, the entire documented history of mankind is available online or at libraries for those interested. Sadly it occasionally breeds extremism and is dangerous to only touch on briefly with young, impressionable minds.
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In reply to Post #1316
Similarly to you saying I never provide any detail on how to combat inequality. Why can’t it be resolved? What is your reasoning for that being the case?
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In reply to Post #1316
Not with your attitude it can’t. You’re part of the problem. Pessimist more than an optimist. You don’t want equality so don’t see how it can be achieved and constantly put the idea down.
You honestly don’t have much to say about the points I make. You don’t want to acknowledge the REAL history not a selective history where bad things are erased. That education is key to progressing forward as a society.
I’ve given you multiple ways to stop discrimination and ensure equality. You just don’t want to read it because it’s actually sensible and doesn’t fit your “it won’t work” agenda.
Stop discrimination of all kinds. To the point you don’t need diversity inclusion forms to force employers to consider BAME or disabled candidates. In an equal society that needn’t exist because it doesn’t matter. The fact it exists means we aren’t anywhere near having equality to all.
Police could do a proper job and take drugs off the streets, remove child grooming for gangs and you stop children loads of kids dropping out of education and ending up a slave to gangs. Stop all crime. If you get life for nicking a loaf of bread people wouldn’t do it. They’d stay in school and get an education. “Police need more funding” I hear you say... then tax the rich properly like I said so the money is available. Stop spending pointless money on hs2 or £25m to a company to get PPE that has never traded and has no employees.
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In reply to Post #1315
I typed a few paragraphs and then deleted them, sometimes you have to realise when you are just banging your head against a wall. You have still not resolved the equality issue or even looked at it have you, just another load of tosh skirting around the subject because you know it can’t be resolved can it?
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In reply to Post #1313
Disagree, history is written. If anything we should leave it alone, respect it and learn from it
Teaching the full story not just selective bits. For instance we don’t teach anyone anything about the British empire. No one wants to change or delete history, just to tell the actual real history. Burying your head in the sand that the British empire didn’t round up Africans and rape, torture and murder them in concentration camps after stealing their land is frankly incredibly sad. It’s omitted from education so how can anyone learn from it?
Everyone has equal rights in our country. It’s what you do that matters
They are meant to but they don’t. For instance fathers don’t have equal rights when it comes to parental custody. Men don’t have equal rights when falsely accused of rape. Just this week a female judge let a woman off a jail sentence after she had a sexual relationship with a 14yr old boy because its was consensual and they had genuine feelings’...reverse the genders and it would have never happened and been a national scandal.
It’s not equal rights to be racially profiled but it happens daily. Harsher punishments being for example if a police officer racially profiled and harasses someone they should lose their job instead of nothing happening. They’d stop pretty quickly.
As I said I didn’t list the entire revamp of society that’s needed to create equality, just some. More learning resources instead of funding cuts to education would start. There’s thousands of social and economic things that need to change before true equality can exist and none are easy to do when you have racism and people that are unwilling to try to better themselves and the country like yourself.
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In reply to Post #1312
Sorry Greekskii, always thought it was a T not a K........
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In reply to Post #1312
Stop discrimination by Ensuring kids don’t grow up racist. Social services will take children out of households where they are being taught racist or other discriminatory values, as they do with other harmful situations.
Agree
Educate people properly and remove white supremacy from history (Jesus wasn’t white was he)
Disagree, history is written. If anything we should leave it alone, respect it and learn from it
Give everyone equal rights. Harsher punishment on authorities that profile people and abuse power.
Everyone has equal rights in our country. It’s what you do that matters
Harsher punishments, example of the wrong?
And you have still not tackled the main underlying problem have you. Equality. The people at the bottom and all these jobs that they need. The things that will make the real difference
Dream on
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In reply to Post #1309
Stop discrimination by Ensuring kids don’t grow up racist. Social services will take children out of households where they are being taught racist or other discriminatory values, as they do with other harmful situations. Educate people properly and remove white supremacy from history (Jesus wasn’t white was he)
Give everyone equal rights. Harsher punishment on authorities that profile people and abuse power.
Some of many things that could be done to remove discrimination over time. It won’t be a quick fix but it’s possible. Unless you have unwilling participants like involved but they’ll die one day and then they won’t be an issue.
I believe if you disagree that everyone should have the same opportunity in life and not be discriminated against then you are clearly part of the issue aren’t you?
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In reply to Post #1310
It was only a joke mate, since Trump got called it, it seems to be the new buzz word lol
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In reply to Post #1304
As I've been involved for 30 years in training apprentices and under grads, the last 15 including more and more female's. I've seen it first hand mate.
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In reply to Post #1308
Let’s agree to disagree.
There’s already a schooling system in place, you either make use of it or you do not, simple
BLM - Jobs and homes
You can say whatever you like but what I posted is the reality. So, as I said, how are you going to change it?
How are you going to create this equality?
Edit -
I will give you a starter, create 5 million new jobs and try to fill them with people who do not have the skills, work ethic, desire or will to work?
How will you create these 5 million jobs, how will you get all this investment? in America it’s probably about 50 million, how are you going to sort the USA out too?
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In reply to Post #1306
Who said everyone had to be employed or we want to give everyone a job?
A fair chance at getting a job.... so it seems like you are missing the point aren’t you.
I think you are trying to drag people down to your basic level tbh. I fully understand that race, gender, sexuality, upbringing, poverty, postcode and many other things create Inequality within society. To say that simply if you have to work hard enough to get what you want doesn’t actually take in to account that some people have to work harder than others due to one or more of those reasons I have mentioned above. And if you acknowledge that and say “well they should just work harder” that means you don’t want equality because people shouldn’t have to. That is the whole point you seem to be blindly or intentionally failing to realise.
I said before, taxing rich people properly and not letting them avoid tax would be a start to increase available funding for things like libraries, community centres, better school funding, etc.
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I can't leave you lot on your own can I? I've only been out for a couple of hours
Notice the superiority complex in me there
In a nutshell positive discrimination for the sake of it and employing people who can't do the job is a big mistake.
If a company chooses to employ underskilled whites in preference skilled BAME then that's another big mistake.
It's not difficult to understand IMO but seems some people have a problem understanding and seem to believe people have hidden agendas that simply aren't there
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In reply to Post #1305
You see, your not looking at the whole picture are you, what’s equality to you? I will tell you what it is to the majority as I see it, having a job, a nice car, and a house like everybody else. And for that you have to work for it, end of story.
So then smart arse, this is the question for you like I already mentioned earlier in the thread.
How are you going to create all these jobs for all these people to give them this equality?
I will answer it for you. You can’t because there are not enough jobs in the country, and guess what, it’s like a filter ain’t it, the people who have the skills, education, communication and the right attitude have the jobs and the stupid or lazy people do not.
What are you going to do, divide the sum total of U.K. earnings by the population and give everybody a piece?
So, how are you going to employ the nation and create this equality, I’m all ears?
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In reply to Post #1303
Well I’m just going off the fact that people that acknowledge inequality and want equality you deem to be racist and anti white. So you can’t want equality if our ideal of equality is, to you, a bad thing.
I get the feeling you like to single out and focus on one factor of something. For example race in this instance of “being stupid” or incapable of working to the standards. You attribute stupidity to parenting but don’t look in to what social-economic circumstances lead to that parenting or that person not achieving in school, etc.
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In reply to Post #1302
misogynistic
I bet you have never heard of that until Trump got called it
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In reply to Post #1295
WTF are you going on about. What makes you think that?
Maybe you have a problem?
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"Why are you so opposed to equality is the real question"
Some are because they are racist, some are because they're misogynistic, individualism also plays a part. It's a great race that you start wherever you start and the finish is dependent on how fast you run and not predetermined in any way. Inequality is irrelevant in the race just get on with running. Its pretty easy to see the flaws when applied, in society.
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In reply to Post #1300
Back from what turned out to be another bashing session
Have good day Mal, it’s only cyber space
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1298
and reality?
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In reply to Post #1293
But then if you look at it the other way round, are employers compensating for years of ignoring BAME candidates?
Maybe times change and things move on, good job were not back in the 1900s ain't it, mind you though, listening to some on here you would think so
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In reply to Post #1296
Fishing mate, avoiding the pubs
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In reply to Post #1292
Im fishing, difficult to keep up, another bream
I don't have to say anything I have wrote it all below, should have read it and joined in a proper debate nsted of ignoring and cherry picking, but then you don't want to do you becuase your right, but really, your wrong, you are banging on about minority issues and not the main fundamental causes
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1290
you appear to have identified a positive reason for employing someone of a different race / religion / background there noj - careful now....
scozza - if you're out there, have a good day man.
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In reply to Post #1291
Racist
Anti white
For wanting equality.
Why are you so opposed to equality is the real question.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1291
I was just giving my views on business exploiting division..
Doesn’t get you off the hook
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In reply to Post #1289
Just trying to make the point that how you said it came across a different way than you meant it.
We all know recruitment of BAME and disabled occurs due to quotas and being perceived as fair. If it didn’t then there would be no need for diversity and inclusion paperwork when applying for a job. Double edged sword as it’s purpose is to ensure that no one is discriminated against however many employers use it as a way to only pursue BAME or disabled candidates to improve diversity in the workforce and don’t really base it on the capability of the candidates. Of course people could lie to get jobs...I’ve seen it first hand with made up qualifications and even someone using a different name so they were considered for the job and not automatically binned (this was a BAME person using a British name btw).
But then if you look at it the other way round, are employers compensating for years of ignoring BAME candidates? I said a long time ago down this thread that it only takes the boss to be a racist and that creates an issue. Is it a conscious attempt to hide discrimination or even better themselves and try to make up for previous ways of thinking?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1286
What pathetic claims?
And what's your question?
The more you post the less you say
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In reply to Post #1290
Pointless trying Jon, they are racists, anti white, everybody else is persecuted in the land of.oppurtuniy and the UK is all wrong because it does not suit there map of the world.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In scozza’s defence I have witnessed people of varying races, religions and social groups be promoted to management without the ‘relevant’ skills; myself included.
It can however be considered good business because managing is just the management of those who are actually doing the work. If, for instance, it’s an area with a high BAME population then a big proportion of the workforce would potentially better relate to a manger with similar social, religious, financial and linguistic differences and work more efficiently; or at least with less division.
Sadly that in itself feeds casual racism across the board but business is business and success almost always comes at a cost
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In reply to Post #1288
Read the post again
If
But yes, I do have the picture in my head but it could be seen as derogatory instead of a honest opinion based on xperiences so let's leave it at that eh?
Unless you want to tell me that the biggest idiots are Italain (stupid person)
Or.are you just trying to cause trouble?
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In reply to Post #1286
Tbf you still haven’t answered which race you know Is more idiotic than the other based on the data you forgot to keep
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In reply to Post #1284
Maybe can’t bring himself to acknowledge any other nationality than English so refuses to type Greek
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In reply to Post #1285
There you go again, back to pathetic claims. You have still not answered the question about the white kid out side KFC have you, easier to keep banging the same old drum
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1282
Of course you don't need to.
Why would using language that offends be something you needed to worry about?
Blissfully ignorant
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In reply to Post #1283
Idiot by definition A stupid person
Could be, depends if you think he's stupid or not?
Forgot, or an idiot?
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In reply to Post #1279
Yeah really...I’m wondering if he’s one of the idiots you refer to or not
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In reply to Post #1280
I don't need to. You need to take your head out of the sand
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In reply to Post #1278
Which race was it that you know are the most stupid?
Because you are implying that the most stupid race is down to a majority bad parenting, so that race has inferior parenting as a result of race?
I know exactly what you mean but you’re ignoring the fact there are external factors to all of it and solely saying it’s race related that there is bad parenting, lack of ambition, etc. On the majority of course not everyone.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1277
Showing your ignorance again scozza
Try getting off your arse and educating yourself about the terms 'coloureds' and 'black'
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In reply to Post #1276
I’m still wondering if misspelling my username everytime you type it is intentional or not. Can’t quite figure it out
Really?!
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In reply to Post #1276
Talking about idiots, do you understand what I have wrote?
As in their parents have not brought them up correctly, no ambition, no schooling etc. etc. so you could.class them as idiots?
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In reply to Post #1275
You can see the pattern Wayne, bit of a joke really isnt it
Few posts ago we could not refer to people by the colour of their skin, then Mal mentions, dare I say it, black teacher
Just admit it Wayne all white people are racists, that's what they want you to say
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In reply to Post #1275
I’m still wondering if misspelling my username everytime you type it is intentional or not. Can’t quite figure it out.
Scozza said he ‘knows who are they are’ when referring to stupidity:race data and they get it from their parents. Implies it is genetics which define your intelligence and a certain race is genetically inferior. I’m only asking to clarify what he means. Why is that such a bad thing?
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In reply to Post #1274
Greetski, you must be a casual racist.......
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In reply to Post #1272
I think we all get what you’re trying to say but in saying it you defined idiots by colour and seemingly ignored my post asking if you think white people are genetically more intelligent going by what you’d said. That doesn’t really help the case you’re trying to make
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1272
You defined the idiots by colour.
There are opportunities in the UK but not the same level for all and unfortunately for some it's skin colour that is used to suppress opportunity.
I've my own experience of KFC and EDL which I've mentioned before. The blame game appeared to be that all of their problems were the fault of the young asian girls in front of them
And I see beyond my toes. Even through this mass of hair....
And the white lives matter guff just shows your lack of understanding
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In reply to Post #1271
When you cannot see beyond your toes, probably.so, sadly
Agree
I could.make the claim WLM based on their social circumstances
That why the reality is, all lives matter. Let's not even start on the homeless, very sad that
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In reply to Post #1269
TBH Chris I think that scenario might cloud the issue for Mal rather than clarify it?
In reply to Post #1270
I think that's the problem he's trying so hard to put things right it's blinkering him?
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In reply to Post #1267
He does not need to. He is looking at it from an oppressed black position only and we are simply not in that place anymore. It's a free country the UK there's opportunities for all, if they REALLY want them. For the 100th time...
The problems is, it's.far too easy to make excuses and blame everything else
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In reply to Post #1266
I will try another perspective to see if you can read between the lines. Let's try the KFC scenario where all the TR fans were one day when I went in handing leaflets out and been a bunch of ****s in general. They think there are no jobs because of coloured folk taking them and coloured folk taking over our society and taking all their options away. It's their fault, the colured folk, we don't want them here
So stupid white skinny drug taker with his staffy. Who fault is it really, people.taking his job or is there another reason?
Could it be his own fault, could.it be his upbringing? Could it be his lack of ambition, skills, education, maybe it's because he is white?
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In reply to Post #1266
You still don't get it do you.
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In reply to Post #1264
I have already explaind it before, you have either not read it or its not.sunk in
As I was reading Mal's post I was thinking exactly that, Mal why aren't you understanding what Scoz is saying!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1264
If you are on about idiots regardless of colour then don't repeatedly define them by colour.
The same crap? Racial equality? Sorry if that's crap to you.
How dare I what?
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In reply to Post #1264
I know who would come out on top.
Is it white people...because I know plenty more white idiots than I do of other colours.
Or are you saying people with non-white skin are genetically less intelligent than white people?
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In reply to Post #1261
I have already explaind it before, you have either not read it or its not.sunk in. Yes, prefrence to the minoroties to be politically correct. Fact
And you still keep banging on about the same crap, I'm on about idiots, regardless of colour. Wish i had kept stats on idiots and race now. I know who would come out on top. And guess what, it's their parents and their fault, so guess what, you get what you get. Do you still want to blame everybody else and make up pathetic excuses for them?
Just like the successful black teachers (how dare you) you mention, they have got off the arses and done something about it, respect to them, they could have just sat around on their arse all day and complained that it's everybody else's fault, ****ing idiots
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1262
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In reply to Post #1261
To have a meritocracy you first must have equality. Quota systems have been used to good effect to kick the door in on equality but a long way to go yet.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1259
You don't understand the process of recruitment if you think that employers are taking on unqualified applicants just because of colour. A company will not be compelled to employ a 'quota' of BAME if there are no suitable applicants. So.... not exactly that at all.
And as already said, being not good at your job, or lazy, or any other negative trait is NOT down to skin colour. If that were so then exactly the same reasoning could be applied to the the lazy and ineffective white blokes out there couldn't it? Or is that something else that's not an issue where you live...?
People are idiots for a reason? What is it then? You seem to be saying it's skin colour even though that's not a problem for you.
'Let them all be teachers' - who's 'them'? You're too easy with the them and us rhetoric scozza. That's the years of lazy race inequality in our society showing through. Maybe something needs doing about it eh?
There are plenty of brilliant black teachers. In spite of some absolutely shocking discrimination they might have faced (a report in my union newsletter just this week if you want to read it). I'm sure there are a few awful white teachers out there. But not because they are white.
No comment on the comparison made with female police officers? Try using all the negative comments you've made but replacing colour with gender and your workplace with the Police force and discuss it with your wife to see what she responds with.
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In reply to Post #1259
Then surely that’s it not a reflection on the people employed, but the employee choosing the wrong people.
I agree, should be employed and paid based on your capabilities, not colour, gender, knowing the right people, etc. Equality.
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In reply to Post #1258
Exactly that
Lets set them all on in Mals, field, let them all be teachers, oh, wait a minute, they cant do it, they don't have the capabilty or right attitude for starters...
There are idiots in this life and they are idiots for.a reason
Lets try and reducate the UK again when they have already had one crack at it or most likely did not give a ****
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In reply to Post #1254
Poor training from your employer is more likely as a suggested reason.
We don't work at Scozza's company Mal but my guess is that in attempt to redress the balance with positive discrimination they've employed the wrong people, perhaps there wasn't enough suitable BAME applicants for the job but in attempt to do the right thing they employed them anyway?
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In reply to Post #1254
Poor training is not the problem, they have not got the relevant qualificatiins to start with, certain skills can be taught and that is open to all, whether they can do it is another story, another massive one, communications and an even bigger one, attitude towards work but more importantly towards others, some of them have a very ****ing bad attitude problem
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In reply to Post #1255
I don’t get offended but thanks all the same......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1251
You're right.
Apologies to any pound shop owners out there if I offended you.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1244
Scozza I do think that colour of skin is not an issue for you - But is is a huge issue for many others.
It's an issue for people of colour every day.
And unfortunately it's a different kind of issue for white right wing supremacists in a different way.
Positive discrimination only exists to redress imbalances. That applies to gender too. Imagine someone assuming your wife was a less effective police officer just because she's female.
Your idea of a totally level playing field for all is exactly what BLM is really about. A kind of utopia I suppose...
As for 'why's that then?' - it's absolutely NOT because of the colour of their skin. Poor training from your employer is more likely as a suggested reason.
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In reply to Post #1252
Yes Nike are probably the most hypocritical of the lot. But Fedex has said the same and also the federal government that own the land the stadium is built on have said they can’t rebuild it as planned until it’s changed. Positive movement.
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In reply to Post #1250
Maybe take a directive to employ or support Native American communities or something
Perfect
But let’s look at the facts. Nike don’t really give a **** do they, otherwise they wouldn’t be paying peanuts to people in third world countries to produce their goods
I can hear it now, ah, but they are providing jobs for people in third world countries. The reality is they could be American jobs. It’s down to the third world countries governments to sort out their problems.
Fact number 1, Nike are only bothered about their public perception and branding and need to be seen as politically correct like a lot of large corporations, load of bollox really. What they should be asking Nike is why are they banging on about native Americans when they are exploiting people in third world countries and the answer would be they are probably paying the government a nice wedge for the pleasure
Edit - One for Jon, he mentioned it a while ago and he is right
By 2017, American companies had put at least $2.6 trillion into offshore tax shelters. President Donald Trump, when arguing for his sweeping tax reform bill, claimed the actual number is $5 trillion.
If the companies ever decide to move the money back onshore, the IRS can levy taxes on it. But until recently, most companies had no intention of doing so. The offshore investments became known as “permanently reinvested earnings.”
By the end of 2017, Nike had $12.2 billion in permanently reinvested earnings. The company estimates that if its $12.2 billion was repatriated to the U.S., it would owe $4.1 billion in U.S. taxes, according to its SEC filings.
“Designating its profits this way allows the company to avoid paying even a dime of U.S. income taxes on these profits until they are repatriated to the U.S.,” said Matt Gardner, a senior fellow at the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy.
How’s that for Nike. Imagine what you could do with that $
Not to mention screwing Indonesia down to pay less than there set minimum wages, again and again and again
Quite ethical eh. BLM
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In reply to Post #1230
Can Always rely on you for the insults Mallory.......
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In reply to Post #1247
Just to sidebar slightly. The Washington redskins NFL team is being renamed. Nike and other sponsors have cut ties until they do. Native Americans are offended. No idea what they’ll rebrand as but it would be nice To see it not move far and pay homage. Renamed the natives or something and retain logos, etc as it would be in tribute to them not an offensive name. Maybe take a directive to employ or support Native American communities or something.
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In reply to Post #1230
"Wayne can't change his mind - the pound shop won't take it back... It's not their fault he got one that was too small"
Rotten sods - it's unused! 
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In reply to Post #1246
I understand that Jon
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In reply to Post #1245
As in black people, white people, yellow people?
Funny, because I worked for a Japanese company for 20 years
I get it
Japanese
Chinese
African
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1244
Good on ya Scozza, the point is, not everyone is like you.
As far as I can see, the BLM movement is asking for nothing more than this:
Colour of the skin does not matter to me at all Mal, can they do the job or not, end of story
All the ******** about cancelling the police etc was said by some daft BLM extremist and grabbed by the statue defenders as evidence that it's all nonsense.
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In reply to Post #1244
People maybe?
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In reply to Post #1242
Colour of the skin does not matter to me at all Mal, can they do the job or not, end of story.
How should I refrain to people with, dare I say it, not white coloured skin?
Unfortunately you're blissfully unaware that is exactly what the BLM movement is saying too but from a point of view that has had to put up with skin colour beige used as a barrier for too long.
You can have whatever skin colour you like you still have to have the skills and capability to do a job and hold a job and a lot who I have had dealings with simply do not
Question, why’s that then?
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In reply to Post #1241
Totally
Biased
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1240
Thank you for that valuable insight and a reminder of the word 'coloureds' for the casual racists to use
You actually make a good point at the end. Unfortunately you're blissfully unaware that is exactly what the BLM movement is saying too but from a point of view that has had to put up with skin colour being used as a barrier for too long.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1240
To be honest Scozza, that's evidence of your employers' HR depts being **** more than anything else.
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In reply to Post #1225
2. Make our own laws and abias towards black people.
3. Continual reminder of history and the fact White people should pay for it for years to come.
Our laws, correct, abide by them
Some people will NEVER be happy Wayne not matter what you do. That is a FACT
And like you mention about jobs, I mentioned earlier that I worked for a couple of company’s that like to promote diversity for their own political place in the business environment and if I’m an totally honest they have set some proper coloured ****ing idiots on, proper, to keep things nice and fluffy, same with a few white folk two but not on the scale of comparison to the number of coloureds
Skin colour SHOULD never, ever, get a look in or ever be a consideration when employing people it should be experience, skills and qualification based ffs!
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In reply to Post #1236
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In reply to Post #1227
Yep, Michelle has a wanger.......
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In reply to Post #1222
Plenty of evidence he is...I mean his son Eric got stung trying to insinuate the Clintons were involved as Ghislaine was at their daughters wedding and twitter replied with 15 years worth of pictures of Trump with her and Epstein... she’s cooperating with the FBI so there’s going to be some serious **** hitting the fan pretty soon.
like I said look into OPSdeatheaters
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Amazes me the idiots on here sometimes, Not only do they talk sh&te they are fluent in it.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1234
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1233
I expect some people think David Starkey used to be in that American police thing, driving fast down alleyways full of rubbish in a big red car with his mate Hutch.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1232
errr.....
wiki?
facebook?
that bloke in the pub again?
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In reply to Post #1230
But Mal, if the people who wrote the books are wrong then why is it that the people who don’t read books are wrong?
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In reply to Post #1229
My view changes as the facts do. Helps me catch plenty of fish too. No-one is beyond education, not even you
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1228
Wayne can't change his mind - the pound shop won't take it back... It's not their fault he got one that was too small
so - back on thread topics...
'Rewriting history' is a term that people have been using a lot. There's a famous quote about history being 'written by the victorious' (maybe paraphrased slightly).
If British history has been written by people like this (and it HAS) then it's worth having a fresh look at things...
https://news.sky.com/story/david-starkeys-so-many-damn-blacks-comment-is-indefensible-12020107
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In reply to Post #1228
No changing my mind Ocelot......I see the world in one way, you see it in another, Others see it in another........Its what makes this thread great fun........
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In reply to Post #1222
The narrow ideological space you occupy will continue to contract. No-one will slate you when you change your mind.
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In reply to Post #1226
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander............
You stay in Utopia Mal.........Such a lovely place in your own head........
Yep, Michelle has a wanger........
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1224
Maybe we should ask for an utter c*ckwomble icon as well....
Would definitely come in handy
Wayne. As ever you are deluded. BLM Is no more a far left terrorist organisation than your beloved Tory party is a far right terrorist organisation. Although I can see how you might have come to that conclusion as finding one example to suit your argument and then saying 'they're all the same' does fit your usual modus operandi....
What next? Obama married a man?
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In reply to Post #1223
Yes it is.
Look at the demands.........
1. End the war on black people.
2. Reparations for past and continuing harms.
3. Divestment from the institutions that criminalize, cage and harm black people; and investment in the education, health and safety of black people.
4. Economic justice for all and a reconstruction of the economy to ensure our communities have collective ownership, not merely access.
5. Community control of the laws, institutions and policies that most impact us.
6. Independent black political power and black self-determination in all areas of society.
Or in simple terms.....
1. Defund the police until they can be resumed with Black police officers ONLY
2. Make our own laws and abias towards black people.
3. Continual reminder of history and the fact White people should pay for it for years to come.
Plenty more demands coming through to, Take a knee.........My arse!!!
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In reply to Post #1223
Where's that sarcastic smiley when we need it?
Thread is back on track but unfortunately for the wrong reasons
You're right Mal. No it isn't
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1220
No. It isn't
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In reply to Post #1221
Yep, picked there side and hope it kicks Them in the arse!! Thats the problem nowadays, you have to pick a side and back it or change your mind and then be slated for moving camps........
greetski, trump ain’t no fiddler, But exposing them gets labelled as fake news by the machine........
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In reply to Post #1220
Times are definitely changing then with the England cricket team wearing a far left terrorist organisation emblem on their shirts
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Good to see BLM being recognised as far left terrorist organisation........
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In reply to Post #1218
I hope so but I doubt he has got the wherewithal to do that.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1217
he'll be trawling through your old posts to reply with kn*bhead responses before you know it....
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In reply to Post #1216
Good job I don’t really care what you think then ain’t it
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In reply to Post #1215
Greekskii - I just come here because I love reading your posts, they just make me realise how clever I am!
Just keep posting, post more if you can, as it's raining outside.
I must admit though when I read what you write, a little bit of sadness washes over me.. :( Hard to explain TBH.
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In reply to Post #1208
You’re in to alternative looks on the world. OpDeathEaters is something you should look at. Trumps a kiddy fiddler too. Close to Epstein who was offed in prison to protect the seedy celeb fiddling ring.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1212
I assumed so.
We need that sarcastic smiley you suggested.
It would completely revolutionise the clarity of posts and improve the forum experience 1000%
Edit; Scozza, quite possibly
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In reply to Post #1206
Or maybe its because a lot of them are successful and make things happen in their lives?
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In reply to Post #1211
I'll come clean and be honest, I was only teasing as this thread has gone way off target as it is.
For the record I praised Keir Starmer the other day and that got slated that as well.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1210
FFS, what has the bloke that makes Johnson look a bumbling ******** every Wednesday got to do with it?
Start a politics thread.
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In reply to Post #1209
No Keir will see to that
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In reply to Post #1208
Arrest imminent?
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In reply to Post #1193
Biden the wrong un kiddie fiddler...... great choice For POTUS......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1206
I blame Jordan Peterson....
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1205
Is it because anti-Semitism, like all forms of racism, is still alive and well in the heads of the small-minded, and the internet allows them to wind each other up, making a bad situation worse?
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In reply to Post #1202
Persecution, persecution, and they have been sadly, to unbelievable extents which is disgraceful for the world and humanity sadly and we can’t never forget!
Today though, not anymore. If the truth be know, they are hated by a lot of people in a lot of countries, I wonder why?
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In reply to Post #1201
What's worrying is you're the sort of rubberhead that thinks they are ffs. As bad as anti semitism
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In reply to Post #1202
Can I present the trophy to ocelot or does it need to be a pink haired crazy liberal?
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Yes typical reply beauty man game set and match
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In reply to Post #1199
Are British Jews Israeli?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1199
but isn't a healthy and happy Jewish community in the UK multiculturalism? - which of course hasn't worked?
you don't half talk some pish
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In reply to Post #1198
Yes I knew you would come round good enough for the UK good enough for isreal Nice one
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In reply to Post #1195
I doubt I'd want you explaining history to anyone. Lots of Jewish people live happily in the UK and know our history.
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In reply to Post #1196
Haha beauty man lovin it
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1195
for a moment I thought you were serious there...
do you do any routines about mother - in - laws? 'my fat wife'? how dogs lick their privates?
oh - and apparently you're the go to guy for hair dye in pastel shades...?
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It’s funny how history changes and what’s thought of history, if I had to explain the British history to a Jewish person and say to him these guys are telling you how you should control your country and you are All horrible people what would he say. in a very difficult situation where no one seems to want to back down and agree to something as well as keeping good faith to build on peaceful living this conflict will carry on, it’s not right they take land and say it’s there’s how dare they the British have never done that the Dutch the French the Germans never Would they do such a thing the British take land and kill people start unwanted wars Sell arms to start wars never. the British have been involved and they have done a great job in helping the situation over the years the British are The people we need to listen To they have a great history of living side by side with other country’s that neighbor them the hospitality and kindness that the British have showen the Scottish and the Irish Over the years, yes it’s the British people we need to Listen to.
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It’s the western worlds democracy on the Arabs doorstep and it expanding rapidly
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In reply to Post #1191
Great article, clearly very knowledgeable on the subject.
You never know though the days of Trump/Netanyahu may be numbered. See if Biden/Gantz can get something moving.
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In reply to Post #1191
Yep , the USA as an honest peace broker is on a same level as that of Blair's position as middle east peace envoy , was this gesture made to antagonize , you could not make it up !
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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I'm finding out a fair bit from this current discussion.
Found this article interesting
https://newint.org/features/2019/12/18/us-no-honest-broker-israel-and-palestine
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In reply to Post #1188
“nation-state of the Jewish people,”
That's what happens when you go down a religious state route and mix in nationalism. Shocking in my view when it was proposed. Appalling piece of legislation.
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In reply to Post #1187
I think you need help !
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In reply to Post #1186
Might sound democratic , but it is far from being democratic , the main Jewish political groups have both ruled out a coalition with any Arab partners , their vote is virtually meaningless , and after recent Knesset legislation which defines itself as the “nation-state of the Jewish people,” instead of the state of all its citizens, as typically practiced in a democratic country
The Nation-State Bill or the Nationality Bill, adopted by the Knesset on July 19, 2018 was meant precisely to prevent that possibility.
Likud member Amir Ohana, who is chairman for the committee that prepared the legal path for its passage, stated , “This is the law of laws. It is the most important law in the history of the State of Israel, which says that everyone has human rights, but national rights in Israel belong only to the Jewish people.
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In reply to Post #1185
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me spanky, all this reading from online sources......
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In reply to Post #1185
Arab Israeli's can and do vote in Israeli elections.
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Israel is open to all , as long as your jewish , fair enough , i can understand that ! but if your a black jew you will be a second class citizen , it has become an apartheid state where the Palestinians are concerned , what they are doing to the Palestinians is unacceptable under any law , it is an illegal occupation ! they are deliberately creating an environment to make life impossible for the inhabitants , anyone who has bothered to look in depth at what is really happening there , should be shocked and feel a certain level of empathy for them unless your a twisted racist that is !
Maybe look into the massacre at Shatila and Sabra , or the US Liberty massacre and the attempted cover up , Israel can get away with murder , and they regularly do !
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In reply to Post #1179
And #1182
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In reply to Post #1182
Could be anyone, just like saying it because it gets a reaction
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1181
I'm guessing Joe average is a gooner. ...
Or is that surname stereotyping?
I'll go have a word with myself
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In reply to Post #1180
sorry just had a word with Joe Average and he doesn't agree.
Carry on chaps let me know who ends up winning
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In reply to Post #1178
Palestine and BLM stand together. Palestine back BLM and vice versa. So it’s all been on topic.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1178
Good point
Commenting is still optional.
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In reply to Post #1177
But you have to read it to see if we've got back on topic again.
Said it before create a political/history/superiority complex thread and fill your desert boots.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1175
Of course reading it is still optional....
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In reply to Post #1175
But don’t people say if you don’t like it, leave?
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Hasn't this thread run it's course.
Started about riots in another country and now turned into Something completely different.
You should all just go and join a political forum. Or better still go fishing and leave your phones at home
Get away from the forum for a few weeks
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1173
Well that's a good start.... only half to go....
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In reply to Post #1172
Deleted half his post
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1157
Pink hair dye?
Confused. ..
However if I can get some that would be great to cover the mass of grey I've got.
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In reply to Post #1169
If you defend yourself you are being attacked first...if you attack someone and call it self-defence even though you werent attacked that just means you attacked.
In any case, Palestine has the same right to defend it self as Israel does doesnt it?
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In reply to Post #1169
Every country has a right to defend itself if attacked. Why are Israel under attack often is whole point. Find out
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Poo poo. All I’m saying is Isreal has a right to defend itself and if it didn’t they would be attacked fact,
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In reply to Post #1166
pretty sure there was a world war about Jews being persecuted wasnt there where everyone said something?
Again, Israel are targeting Palestine due to religious beliefs and trying to destroy it...you think this is a good thing
Some muslim countries, obviously siding with muslim Palestine that Israel is trying to destroy, think Israel should be destroyed...you think this is unacceptable
Do you not see the irony in what you're saying and the hypocrisy in it?
One religion trying to wipe out another religion's state is exactly what you are describing from both sides yet you think its both unacceptable and acceptable
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In reply to Post #1165
Murdered plenty of British soldiers and police in the setting up of Israel. Admired? Upto you.
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In reply to Post #1164
Calm down easy tiger I understand that but there are countries that are calling for that yet nothing said the Jews have been targeted for years and to this day after millions of deaths they are still getting stick,
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In reply to Post #1163
The people of isreal are to strong there dedication has to be admired.
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In reply to Post #1160
you're still very confused.... NO ONE ON THIS FORUM WANTS TO SEE THE TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL....we never said there isn't people in the world that want to do that (incidentally exactly the same thing Israel wants to do to Palestine )
You need to read things properly before replying so you dont keep making yourself look foolish
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In reply to Post #1160
You really swallowed it didn't you , it will end in tears for Israel , they will self implode , especially when we find an alternative to our oil dependency !
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In reply to Post #1160
Thought you wouldn't be able to hold it together for long
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In reply to Post #1158
That Oborne documentary highlights perfectly how far their reach goes , a few on here could do with watching it , it is a massive negative for this country , and the guy is a Tory !
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No one wants to wipe out anyone haha beauty man, the Jews have every right to stand up for themselves they have been in the middle East and Africa for many years and now only feel safe in Isreal in that region of the world, if they weren’t as strong these countries would storm in and take advantage And wipe them out fact GO ISREAL
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We could of been terrorist free here in the uk after the IRA ceasefire , had it not been for our ridiculous meddling in the middle east , they have every right to dislike us for what we have done to their countries , surely it would of been easier and make more sense economically just to give them a fair price for their oil and let them have their "gold backed currency "
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In reply to Post #1157
that's because it's only hippy, peace loving weirdos with pink dyed hair that dont agree with Israel's actions...because SHOCK HORROR...you cant be normal and not agree with Israel wanting to eliminate Palestine...god forbid you are a politician because that's the kiss of death due to a MSM campaign to destroy your credibility....and some people wonder how far Israel's influence runs....
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In reply to Post #1155
No-one here wants to wipe out anyone you plank it goes without saying.
Pink hair dye?? Here comes the cobbler's now that understanding of the situation has been shown to be paper thin.
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In reply to Post #1155
You never give a response to Israel's wrongdoings and actions and condemn that behaviour, to be honest you never give a reply to anything really...
Edit - both me and ocelot clearly stated that no-one is saying Israel should be destroyed...so to put it simply for you...no we do not think the destruction of Israel is acceptable....but if you could be bothered to read you'd know that
Edit 2 - you've now edited your post to say something completely different on the sly there... but I see you
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No-one is saying they want to wipe out Isreal really just take a look at some of the tastie stuff Iran has said oh but let’s ignore that and support the Palestine people yes when they bomb isreal let all cheer no chance I respect the isreal people for being strong and standing up for themselves,
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In reply to Post #1151
Israel is a country, to criticize Israel is not anti-Semitic. Or is it...
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In reply to Post #1150
I think you have confused yourself...no-one is saying Israel should be destroyed or wiped off the face of the planet because it is a Jewish country.
What people are saying is that the actions of Israel against Palestine are not acceptable. Religion is not a part of that view to most people, the issue between the two is religious but it is the acts carried out that are not acceptable regardless of religion. The crux of it is, when similar situations arise in other countries everyone gets involved and wars start. Kurds in Turkey or the Russians in Ukraine for example. Yet with Israel, it doesn't happen because the conflict is advantageous to most global leaders as a distraction and for their arms trades, specifically Britain. A peaceful solution is reported to be wanted by most of the general population of Israel and Palestine, it is the powers that be in Israel that refuse to have a peaceful solution.
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In reply to Post #1150
Chased is your choice of words to explain the increase in Jews in Israel it wouldn't be mine.Your getting yourself confused. No-one has posted anything on here remotely like support for wiping out Israel ffs. Get that straight. The support is for a peaceful two state solution which only Israel holds the key to, but refuses to unlock. It's pretty simple.
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In reply to Post #1149
we better be careful, if you dont defend Israel's actions it apparently means you are anti-Semitic...well according to MSM and the Tories
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In reply to Post #1149
Yes chased out to isreal were they feel safe and protected, I never said it was Muslims But there are governments of Muslim country’s openly saying they want to wipe Israel of the planet and it’s not acceptable yet on here the support against isreal is for all to see
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In reply to Post #1148
Don't think it was Muslims that murdered several million Jews. You asked where are they and that's the answer. In Israel.
Edit: No views on Israeli expansion of territory beyond it's borders?
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In reply to Post #1146
Yes for there own safety as Jews have been attacked for years they’ve only had several million killed over the years and still to this day people want them wiped out.
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In reply to Post #1145
England was catholic until the 1500s...where are we now? and that change happened by brutal force too....
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In reply to Post #1145
Considering there were a few hundred thousand Jews in Israel when it was formed in 1948. Where there are now several million. Along with the fact that Israel is a Jewish homeland with virtually automatic citizenship if you follow that faith. I'd imagine most went there by choice. Or were flown in by Israel as is the case with the Ethiopian Jews.
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In reply to Post #1131
Egypt had 300,000 Jews years ago where are They now, take a look at the Jew populations in the Middle East and Africa From years ago to now
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In reply to Post #1142
People commit crimes not religion beauty try telling that to gays, Lesbians And Apostates Anyway the Glasgow incident was a man from Sudan who didn’t like the generosity of the UK government we just aren’t giving enough to the illegal immigrants I suppose
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In reply to Post #1141
good job no-one has called anyone racist then
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In reply to Post #1137
well considering the people of Palestine are happy to have a peace treaty and equality (based on a recent survey carried out) but Israel are against equality and co-existence, I am pretty sure it's on Israel as being the aggressor now.
As oclot said, people commit crimes, not religions. If you look everywhere people go they tend to commit crimes, do some research in to christian related crimes across the globe, or jewish crimes, or white crime, or black crime, or whatever demographic you want and you will find that every demographic has extremists that commit violent crimes, a proportion that commit all sorts of crimes for various reasons and a peaceful population. The narrative of the culture is why you see proportionally high reports of immigrant crime, this applies globally. For instance, the asylum seeker that killed people in Glasgow the other week there, well on the same day there was 6 stabbings, 4 fatal at the crowded beaches yet it never really made any type of news. Why? similar death toll, perhaps more pointless circumstances than the Glasgow incident... all murders of equal heinous nature.
It would really do you some good to use punctuation in your posts as they get very hard to read without a single full stop or comma.
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Muslims, Christians, etc etc are not all bad people, in fact it’s a tiny minority that are.......but not liking their religion or criticising aspects of it doesn’t make you a racist FFS.......
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In reply to Post #1138
I know it was just the way your post was worded.
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In reply to Post #1137
Defending themselves by expansion of the state of Israel into land that isn't within the world recognised borders of Israel? Whilst denying the Arabs of Palestine a state?
Funny way for a peaceful country to defend it's people
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In reply to Post #1136
exactly my point
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Every religion has Some sort of bad history But the Palestine Israel thing was brought up with plenty of support for Palestine which wants to Wipe out Israel which is not on Israel as I have stated are defending themselves Everywhere else in the world they go about there business yet chaos were there Is a large Muslim community am I wrong here Germany Sweden France UK only to name a few There are plenty of peaceful Muslims in the world it’s just a pity 20% of them support the death of isreal I think we should Just live and let live even make a joke about it oh sorry Lets not we know what happened the last time a funny drawing was done.
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In reply to Post #1135
Religions don't commit crimes Greeki. People do.
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In reply to Post #1130
you dont seem to acknowledge every other religions atrocities only muslim...im not calling you racist, just asking why you want to only bring light to people of muslim religion that commit these crimes but not recognise and highlight the same crimes committed by other religions.
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In reply to Post #1132
But as Islam is a religion of chaos bombing and rape in your view how come it's not 22 out of 22?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1130
you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about being called racist
just saying
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19 out of 22 countries from the Arab league don’t recognize Israel The Arab countries want it to be totally Arab fact and when there leaders call out for Israel to be wiped out nothing said. As for Harvey and his beast behavior hope he rots in jail but boy what an outcry yet thousands of young girls in the UK raped killed and nothing said in fact they are released and back working in the shop as if nothing happened crazy times people ok for some not for others I guess
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In reply to Post #1128
The fact is that Israel's two longest border's are with Egypt and Jordan. Who both have majority Muslim populations and both recognise Israel's right to exist and both have peace treaties with Israel. Both want a Palestinian state.See everyone can get along
Edit: Even those Muslims the PLO in occupied territories recognised Israel until recently due to right wing Israeli intransigence on a two state solution.
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Nothing against Muslims mate I work with them Have done for 3 years now 5-6 days a week found out a lot about Muslims all I’m doing stating facts and the minute facts are put on the table the liberal lefties shout racist just to shut you down I hope they sort it out but the Jews stand up for themselves and protect there people wish the UK was like that
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In reply to Post #1128
Who said anyone supports wiping out Israel? I support Palestine not being wiped out by Israel. I’m sure there are plenty of Jews that are involved in rape (Harvey Weinstein being a very very famous one), murder and probably bombings too.
I’ll ask again, what is it you have against Muslims when the acts you describe are carried out by all religions?
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Here we go 300 years ago this religion done this ah but 400 years ago this religion done this fact of the matter is Israel is standing up to surrounding countries that openly admit to wanting to wipe them of the earth and you support this what is going on here in this day and age I don’t see the Jews bombing raping murdering throughout the world but it’s ok to do it in the name of a war lord crazy lefties are more dangerous in my opinion
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In reply to Post #1126
Replace Muslim for Christian and it would still be true, change heroin to cocaine to America.
You’re clearly very very anti-Muslim with a deep rooted hatred for the entire religion. What caused that? Because it just seems like you want to pin the wrong doings of people on a certain religion and completely ignore that other religions have carried out equal, if not worse atrocities throughout history.
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Ok Muslims throughout the world are known to be peaceful they haven’t caused chaos in every country they are in they haven’t raped woman in unprecedented numbers throughout Europe they haven’t bombed Europe they don’t control the heroin coming into Europe they are peace loving people.
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In reply to Post #1124
Problem is who’s opinion? Western cultures which don’t relate to Muslim culture because of the vast differences? Or just yours? Or ??
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Throughout the world where the Jews have migrated they have lived in relative peace yet where the Muslims go they cause chaos fact every country they are in there is a problem fact
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In reply to Post #1121
I don't think that the truth is something that you intentionally search for !
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In reply to Post #1112
1st July - 20,000 Israeli troops are planned to annex Jericho today. Is that because they’ve been bullied by everyone else or?
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Take a look at where the Jews lived throughout the Middle East and Africa peacefully Years ago until they Chased out by Muslims.
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Take a look at where the Jews lived throughout the Middle East and Africa peacefully Years ago until they Chased out by Muslims.
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In reply to Post #1115
"I do believe there’s more of a misunderstanding of cultures than discrimination against somebody’s melanin count'
Noj's excellent words from an earlier post. I'd add certain if not all monolithic religions to that confusion.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1116
Yay, he’s my favourite
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In reply to Post #1112
I used to work with a Muslim lad and he was Palestine mad and I mean mad
Got friendly with him at work and we used to talk about all things like you do and it turned to Israel. Got to the point that’s all he used to talk about, used have some proper rants about Israel pinching their lands, the Americans supporting them etc. etc., one day pulled a map out showing me the territory and the expansions in to Palestine land, quite a rabble with sketching all over it. Told me he was so fed up he was thinking about going over there and fighting with them
Truth be know, I thought he was a bit extreme to say the least, I honestly thought about reporting him but I didn’t at the time. His brother used to run a paper shop in a popular northern city, used to go through there on a weekends and meet up with his mates discussing all things political, I can imagine how that went!
He was a very bright lad, Engineering degree and it really surprised me if I honest from what he was to what he had turned out to be in the couple of years I worked with him. And that is a fact.
Worked with another one at another company, really, really nice bloke, had all the time in the world for him. Used to chat about various things regular. He was very political though at times. Did a few interviews with a newspaper. One day they were sat interviewing him outside work lol. Turned out to be one of the major players in the Bradford Trojan horse saga where they were trying to turn the school into Islamic ruled. Anyway, he was kicked of the board of governors after that lol. And thats another fact too.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1114
I'm sure someone will be along with some cobbler's copied and pasted from David Irving before long....
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My Mums cousin is Jewish , whenever there is a family get together i will spend as much time as possible talking to him , there are few people i respect or admire more than him !
The majority of Zionists are not Jewish , in Israel it has become a very right wing ideology , it is not going to end well !
It has become political suicide to criticize Israel now in this country , their lobbyists have won , for now !
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1113
Being part Jewish I’m excited to see this one pan out
Any Holocaust deniers in the house?
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In reply to Post #1112
Israel, Jews and Zionism in the same post. All 3 are separate entities . Best not to forget that.
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It's interesting to read everyone's views on the Palestine Israel conflict , first thing that should be said is that the Palestinians are the victims , i would challenge anyone to live under the conditions they do and not resist , which you are allowed to under international law as it is an illegal occupation , there is a reason Israel has the largest lobby group in the uk and America , the negative influence that manipulates our press , media and political groups has a massive negative impact , as all forms of corruption do .
I have personally been threatened on many occasions by highlighting this corruption , I once had myself and my daughter threatened by a certain "Ben Santhouse " who said i was anti Semitic for posting the Peter Oborne Dispatches documentary on a thread , he said he was going to come and "fu** me up " he complained to facebook about the post , no action was taken , a few weeks later i found out that he had made half of the complaints regarding antisemitism in the Labour party .
Israel pay £millions every month to manipulate foreign opinion to cleanse the atrocities they commit
Christian Zionism is huge in America , Search the "hasbara handbook " a handbook given to budding Zionist's , on tactics
for influence , mainly for their students whilst studying abroad .
Israel have never wanted a peace agreement , they were always going to take what they wanted to , it was just a waiting game !
I do think that they should have their own homeland , but not at the expense of others !
The majority of jews despise what Israel are doing in their name , just search "jews protesting against zionism " as you will not see it in our media !
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1109
Hope you enjoy it.
I found it fascinating and the style of the artwork is perfect for the narrative.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1109
He can't be all bad in that case
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In reply to Post #1108
I'm pleased Sir Keir has clearly made it onto Mook, Tommy and the Blackshirts hate list already. Must be a good man
#1106 Cheers Mal I've ordered it
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Starmer, that’s another slippery c***. Wasn’t he the bloke that persuaded the police and press’ to keep quiet about the asian gang rapping of white teenage girls a few years ago.
Now he’s knighted and leader of the communist party. Show the terrible state we’re in.
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In reply to Post #1106
Have a lovely multicultural day all.
Back t you as well 😷 off to pack up car for 48 hours 😀 glad the weathers changed 👍🏻 No lobster for me😀
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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Greekskii and fishie both have it right regarding the Israel/ Palestine conflict. Interference and support of the the conflict from others - notably the US - has made the whole thing immeasurably worse for decades.
There's a great book called Footnotes in Gaza by Joe Sacco that explores it. It's a graphic novel and the words aren't too tricky so even if you're a Trump supporter it's accessible.... (that means it's easy to read)
A politics thread sounds a good idea. Maybe a Trump thread too with some nice pictures to colour in.
Have a lovely multicultural day all.
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In reply to Post #1103
Trying to get back on thread....ish.
I see Sir Keir has now stated "defund the police" is not viable, and is a main thrust of the BLM mantra. I bet he's glad he took the knee now!
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In reply to Post #1095
The Foreign Secretary Balfour's letter to Rothschild in 1917.
His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
Hardly keeping their end of the deal Israel.
Sorry for the cut and paste but couldn't remember the wording.
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In reply to Post #1100
Or maybe a history thread?
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In reply to Post #1099
We tried to keep our obligations in Palestine but were kicked out by a murderous terrorist campaign by Haganah/Irgun and other Jewish group's.King David's hotel, hanging British soldiers in orange groves( edit: Sergeant's Affair), the Exodus ship etc. Plus eventual international pressure. It was a rock and a hard place for the British unfortunately with what had happened to the Jews in Europe You can't win them all Greeki.
Best chance of peace they had was ended by a right wing zealot assassinating Yithzak Rabin. Another great leader murdered for doing the right thing.
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In reply to Post #1099
Its not boo hoo Irael or boo hoo Palestinians. Both are guilty and both are victims of international and local interference. Until they both sit down and talk nothing will change!
Bataris box anyone
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Maybe it really is the right time for a political thread?
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In reply to Post #1098
boo hoo poor Israel. like they are some innocent victim of bullying. reality check, they aren't.
Wrongs on both sides and can be resolved peacefully but neither willing to make that step, other democracies instead of pushing it towards peace keep supplying them with weapons. the conflict makes money so why try to help mediate.
I suppose Ocelot would say that the righteous path of the British would be to help out and sort the issue out...when in fact they make so much money selling arms to Israel that no conflict isn't good business for them.
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I’m sure if the Palestinian people stopped bombing and the supporting countries that supply them with arms stopped there hate towards them they might gett somewhere the Jews are only standing up for themselves against countries that openly call for there death for years Yet nothing said
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In reply to Post #1096
And the Palestinians are totally innocent democratic society.
This is all reminiscent of the protestants and catholics on an island quite close to us. it wasn't resolved and eased by continual violence and terrorism is was partially solved with democracy and talking!
Hold free elections, and peace talks then the world may accept a free Palestine. Carry on firing missiles into Israel and whinging that Israel is retaliating gets them no where.
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In reply to Post #1095
So that makes it okay to segregate and deny Palestine independence and try to wipe them out?
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Israel has been threatened by almost ever country that surrounds it they need our support they have been chased out of North Africa and the Middle East by peaceful Muslims so I understand the Jews position dealing with Iran etc
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In reply to Post #1093
All fighting over there imaginary friend in the sky........Who gives a ****......
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In reply to Post #1091
I still don’t get the worlds view on Israel...Israel is literally trying to get rid of Palestine and has been for so so long yet all the Christians and catholic’s around the world let it happen even though it’s where Jesus is from. No one up in arms about it, most Christian countries actually support them.
I know it’s more complex than that but that’s a basic look on it. You’d think there would be more uproar wouldn’t you.
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In reply to Post #1090
Parklife - then this - you're on fire mate
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Peter Oborne , Dispatches , on the Israeli lobby its power and far reaching influence , it's hand in corrupting our democracy should not be underestimated ! and it is far worse now than it was then when this was produced !
Its also an interesting watch
link.
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In reply to Post #1087
There’s a song about a leader that had half the amount of balls that Trump has.
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In reply to Post #1081
It's all there to find , unless you choose not to , Israel is one of the most racist countries in the world now !
Your ****ing mental..........
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1087
Darn tootin
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Multiculturalism has failed big time In the UK and TRUMP is doing a fantastic job wish the UK had someone with half his balls we would be in a better position as a country fact GO TRUMP.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1085
mine's better
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In reply to Post #1083
I think Spanker has a superiority complex
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1080
Agreed.
It's so simple to do and as a shadow education secretary she should have known the pitfalls of online commenting and e-safety. My y7 kids learn it in the first few weeks....
I think Kier was doing a very clear 'I'm not jeremy' job in his quick action. It's been a long time coming for the Labour Party after all.
Have a good evening all and watch out for the golf carts.....
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In reply to Post #1082
Naive I am not
But you carry on with your links and baiting
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In reply to Post #1079
I can't believe how naive you are ,
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It's all there to find , unless you choose not to , Israel is one of the most racist countries in the world now !
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In reply to Post #1075
RLB’s piece in the Guardian is worth a read. I think she had to go as it was a bit of a lapse of judgement to not be more careful in endorsing an article before thoroughly analysing it.
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In reply to Post #1075
So a counter terrorism conference is now training police officers in restraint techniques.
You wasn't there, I wasn't there but lets both make assumptions
It describes dealing with IED's, suicide bombers and other terrorist techniques. But hey ho if you want to kneel on the neck of a suicide bomber you go ahead 
Cant believe I'm defending Sir Keir
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Yep , you need to be a lying tur* to be Prime minister in this so called democracy !
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1076
Future prime minister behaviour. ..
All he needs now is a bit of casual racism to win hearts and minds
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In reply to Post #1075
That’s why he’s winning polls.
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Looks like Sir Keir is a lying twa*
link.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1073
I've had a very lovely day thankyou all - spent it with someone who matters
hope you have too.
Peace and indeed love
Hey BB
Just wondering where in all of his excellent work for the black community Trump's retweeting of the 'white power' video fits....? Somewhere alongside his telling black congresswomen to go back to their own country maybe? Is he a Democrat or a Republican, I forget....
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In reply to Post #1072
Let’s wish him some peace and love man
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In reply to Post #1070
You can’t get upset in utopia......
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In reply to Post #1070
Hippies don't get upset.
Peace and love man
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In reply to Post #1069
You said that, not me. You will have upset him now
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In reply to Post #1068
Away with the fairies ?
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In reply to Post #1067
which one are you in your list
Depends on his emotions at the time Wayne, it could be a self profile that, all?
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In reply to Post #1061
Incinerator for you Mallory........it’s not a competition to see how woke you are.........
Just out of interest too.....which one are you in your list of blokes down the pub......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1064
but you'll tick 2 boxes for an employer so good for you mate!
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In reply to Post #1061
Half greek I’ll have you know. Other half polish. So I’ll take half your job and half a carp then throw it in a pitta
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #1062
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In reply to Post #1061
Do you know my darts team
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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this thread is rapidly turning into that corner of the pub where all the old men sit talking bull
a few old gits complaining about 'bloody foreigners taking all the jobs', that bloke who googles the thing you were talking about and then comes back with a load of what he thinks is very clever stuff but actually is missing the point, the gob***** who chips in now and then with a remark that he thinks is funny (but is just a casually racist joke he saw on facebook), the 'in my day' bloke who can't remember to pull his flies up when he comes back from the loo but can apparently remember when this country was 'great', a couple of blokes who do know some stuff and do a decent job of deflating some of the crap argument from both sides, 'joe average' who doesn't really support any of the extremes and would happily drink his pint in peace and let others do the same, a Greek lad (other nationalities are available of course), the proper racist who wants 'them' to 'go back where they came from' .... and the 'snowflake' of course ... ( )
i may have missed a couple, but I'm sure the gob***** will chip in to remind me...
anyway - and I do mean this - have a good day.
It's Sunday. Have a rest, kiss your family if you can, tell someone that you haven't told for a while that they're great / you love them. Wash the car / dog / neighbour. Have a roast / curry / lentil salad. Make a mess with the kids. Go fishing....
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In reply to Post #1058
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Cost to refurbish Buckingham palace , paid for by the tax payer £369 million , thats nice !
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In reply to Post #1055
So there's already jobs for these people to do? I'm more a fan of training for the unemployed. Like the old skill centre courses. It should be mandatory.
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Talk about scrounging basta**s , this lot take a lot of beating
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/09/europe/british-lawmakers-working-home-expenses-scli-intl-gbr/index.html
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In reply to Post #1047
Would have explained a lot.
"A" great leader. The same as Disraeli, Lincoln, Keir Hardi etc.
But none of the above proposed the Civil Rights Act. So weren't used. As usual your conclusion is wrong as it's formed with paranoia.
"Sanctimonious regurgitations of tripe"
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In reply to Post #1053
I said it earlier get able bodied people to clean and improve the environment. Don't make it a punishment though make it something that you are admired for.
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In reply to Post #1053
A negative approach is what we are always looking for, the reasons not to is far easier than the reason to
It would start with the DHSS with, these are your options, there’s the job people over there. If your not interested then over there is the door and you get what you get. The choice is yours
Things have to change, for the better
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1052
I get where you're coming from (the big castle in Nottingham ) but I really don't see how you could implement such a plan. The looming prospect of thousands of unemployed as a result of the Covid situation will only make it more impossible.
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In reply to Post #1051
The UK has one of the widest gaps between the rich and the poor. If you're comfortable making that gap even wider by taking away from those at the bottom of the pile, fair enough, but I wouldn't be.
Think your getting confused here Jon. Nobody has said anything about taking anything off them. It’s about making those who are capable of working, work for their benefits, and if they are capable of working but still don’t want to, then you are right they would be paid absolutely rock bottom for me and I think that’s fair. Why should we pay for some lazy ****s who are capable of working but simply do not want to?
It also gives them an opportunity to get a work ethic, get a job and hopefully be able to hold that job down. A starting point and hopefully progression
Over to you Sheriff
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1049
I get the picture in my head, Jon thinks like Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor, wasn’t he an outlaw?
He was indeed Scozza, as well as being an all round good bloke who enjoyed having a laugh, and was very successful with the maidens, despite the tights.
The UK has one of the widest gaps between the rich and the poor. If you're comfortable making that gap even wider by taking away from those at the bottom of the pile, fair enough, but I wouldn't be.
The sheriff of Nottingham wasn't an outlaw, but was widely regarded as a bit of a ****.
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In reply to Post #1049
Or they could just tax the rich properly and stop tax evasion and make them pay their fair share like everyone else does. That might work.
I think a lot of you are ignoring an obvious factor in poverty and crime. It happens all over the world. Children are groomed from a young age to be part of drug gangs. Here you have the “county lines” problem happening right now in the present. Children as young as 11 being groomed to get involved in the drugs trade. Corrupted from a young age. Poverty plays its part because living in a poor estate you’re likely to encounter this more than if you are better off. Simple as that.
Oh and BB you always try to make everything left vs right. But the truth is both the left and right have contributed to the problems and issues that now exist. That’s in all areas of life tbh. Trying to make one look like they did one less turd in the ****show just makes you look a bit silly tbh.
I heard a quote from a black person which is probably controversial but it’s also worth thinking about.
Black people in America only ever asked For equality when they could have sought revenge
Now it’s very true. They were promised a lot post slavery and got none of it, since then they’ve only ever asked to be treated equally. After what they were subjected to for centuries They could well have gone out for revenge couldn’t they, punished the people oppressing them. But they didn’t. Maybe it’s half the Reason they were kept oppressed, white fear of being enslaved themselves or Killed off.
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In reply to Post #1035
A 'rich' economy like the UK should be able to give everyone enough to survive on, no matter what their motivation is.
Load of bollox, rich, your having a laugh. What we need to do is sort it out and make it stronger!
I get the picture in my head, Jon thinks like Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor, wasn’t he an outlaw?
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America has black billionaires black millionaires black judges black businessmen black business owners black cops black mayors black politicians it’s done to the individual it’s a joke BLM and crazy liberal lefties white life matters when do we need to stop apologizing for the past it’s a joke if they don’t like it they can try to get back to country of origin see how they get on on
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In reply to Post #1045
Hi Ocelot,
No, I'm not on drugs.
You spoke of your great leader JFK, a Democrat and referenced to me, your man, meaning Trump a
Republican.
Your implications were quite obvious.
BB.
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In reply to Post #1043
Hi noj,
I actually care about the murder and mayhem that goes on in those black inner cities and think they have been badly let down and neglected by their politicians.
If you think my efforts to try and understand their problems and the answers to them is sanctimonious tripe, then you are entitled to your opinion. All I can say is that my concern is genuine.
As I said, if you dismiss the credibility of the people I referenced, then who do you think has the credibility to understand the issues and offer viable solutions?
You say about reading books doesn't make you an expert. Well these men actually wrote the books on the subject. And I certainly don't consider myself a voice for US blacks.
BB.
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In reply to Post #1044
Are you on drugs?
Where did I mention any political party. Something's definitely warped.
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In reply to Post #1040
Hi Ocelot,
You have a warped view of the reality.
The 1964 civil rights act only passed because most Republican senators voted for it. It wouldn't have passed otherwise because most southern Democrats opposed it. Remember it was Dems who brought in the Jim Crow segregation laws in the first place.
States have much autonomy in the government of their states and are directly responsible for their police, schools etc. and the welfare and social conditions of their citizens. Most inner city black cities have been totally controlled by Dems for decades with little or no improvement to their social conditions.
8 years of Obama made no difference either. Since Trump came in office, several important improvements have been made, which I listed in previous posts. Why didn't Obama introduce these measures?
Democrat mayors now want to defund the police and make black communities even more murderous.
How stupid and irresponsible is that? The lunatics really have taken over the asylum.
BB.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1037
Sorry BB, but I’ll be honest. I can’t take your sanctimonious regurgitations of tripe by a couple of blokes that were poor in the 60s seriously.
I’ve read books on astronomy but it doesn’t make me Patrick Moore, same as you aren’t a voice for African Americans
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1041
I'll just go back to ignoring you as usual.
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In reply to Post #1034
Hi Jon,
Use your own damn phrases and don't plagiarize mine.
I have the armour of self confidence to dismiss your feeble insults.
BB.
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In reply to Post #1006
The kid will have United States of America stamped on it when he gets a passport. Not Chicago or Charleston. Your figures show the totally disproportionate lives led by Americans with black skin. That's been like that for far too long. Federal government is the only way to change the status quo as a great leader JFK did before with the eventual 64 Civil Rights Act. Your man can wheel out all the talking coloured heads he wants, the audience aren't listening anymore. They see him as a bulwark of the problem.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1037
When your go-to economic guru is Patrick Minford, you can't complain when your experts of choice on other subjects don't get instant respect.
Who said that?
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Hey guys, enough about me it’s embarrassing.....
Correct though, subconscious stereotyping......
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In reply to Post #1028
Hi noj,
Both of those black professors grew up in poor conditions in the time of segregation. One was adopted by an aunt and the other raised by a single mother. They have written many books on the cultural conditions of modern black Social history. They are considered experts on the subject.
If they and the other commentators I mentioned, are not qualified to understand the black community, I wonder who you think is? It's social history and community relations, not quantum physics.
The homicide figures I quoted were from official FBI crime stats. Not sure how easily they could be manipulated. Not sure why you seem determined to dismiss the credibility of the above experts?
BB.
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In reply to Post #1032
The danger of trying to ensure nobody gets something they don’t deserve is that some will lose out because of systematic flaws and false assumptions. When you wrote about it being Wayne’s mother who brought him up I almost replied that that was a bit of stereotype, even though I automatically assumed it was his mother as well.
I was wrong and I’m glad I didn’t post that as I would have just looked even more sanctimonious.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1032
Scozza, when I said 'taking the piss', I meant your 'milking it'.
I find the arguments for universal basic income quite persuasive. A 'rich' economy like the UK should be able to give everyone enough to survive on, no matter what their motivation is. Categorising folk according to their worthiness for help is a recipe for disaster.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1033
Try losing the yoke of victimhood, it might do you the power of good
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In reply to Post #1030
Hi Jon,
So I was right about the trolling then. No considered opinion just the usual boring insults.
I'll just go back to ignoring you as usual.
BB.
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In reply to Post #1025
Hi Jon,
I don’t think it’s a case of taking the piss, it’s what we do to address the issues that will make all the difference. The easiest thing is to say there is not a problem , when clearly there is. It’s about filtering out the people,who really need the support and people who are milking it for me
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1026
I vaguely remember the 90s
Scozza 🍻
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1017
Dear BB,
I wholeheartedly refute your somewhat slanderous accusations.
While it may seem apposite to reflect upon the impact the variety of measures implemented by both Democrat and Republican administrations have had on the circumstances and wellbeing of inner-city black communities in the United States, and to opine on the relevance and importance of a range of social factors on the ability or otherwise of young blacks to make a successful life for themselves may be tempting, I would like to remind you of the occasional situation which may arise upon one overlooking a half-used bucket of previously prepared particles, and leaving said receptacle forgotten and neglected for weeks on end, which when opened presents a scum-covered surface with the watery liquid below being grey in colour, with flecks of putrid solid matter and an overwhelming stench which can only be likened to children’s vomit, left in a car on a hot day…
That’s your aftershave, that is. You splash it all over.
Jon
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In reply to Post #1026
Your dad then Wayne
Apologies
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1013
With all due respect to whoever those professors are BB, I doubt they know much about financial hardship or illegal means of earning being the only avenue that will feed your family without welfare handouts.
As we know from Covid reporting worldwide, figures are easily manipulated, misunderstood or misreported
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In reply to Post #1020
Wow Jon,
Respect your honesty mate. I think religion could be a way, something to believe in but the corruption does raise concerns.
This is what the government needs to be looking at, our people, and where we go next.
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In reply to Post #1024
It was my dad who has bipolar who brought me up........mums in a care home for the last 35yrs.......
Not sure Noj, but wasn’t going back that was for sure......and it was couches.......lots of ****ty uncomfortable DFS couches......
1990 wasn’t exactly great economically and not as bad as now but was still tough......as you probably know.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Scozza, as I said a few (hundred) posts ago, some people will take the piss whatever. Rise above it, let them get on with it and continue to do the right thing. If 0.001 percent of your tax goes to fund some idle bugger so what, would you really change places with them?
Re the problems of blacks in America. I don't pretend to know what the answer is, but feel blaming blacks in America probably isn't.
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In reply to Post #1016
Praise your parents for everything what is right and blame them for everything that is wrong (old psychology saying). Sounds like you mother brought you up well mate. Be proud, very proud
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1014
A lot of us have or do live that life Wayne. But without that couch what would you have done?
That was also not in the current economic situation was it?
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In reply to Post #1021
Parklife!
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In reply to Post #1014
So it wasn’t easy. Not everyone has your self determination and may need help to break through. How many people born into privilege fail in comparison to the wasted lives of those born into poverty?
You are the exception and not the rule (and I’m not being facetious, however much it hurts to call you exceptional.)
What remains is that the majority of us on here hit the jackpot. We were born white, male, straight and relatively comfortably off in one the richest countries in the world. I think I’m hugely lucky and maybe my middle-class guilt is showing but I don’t think I would be where I am now had I been born under different circumstances. Empathy is not a bad thing, Ayn Rand was not a nice person.
I wish I could remember where I read it but someone once said something along the lines of “what if the cure for cancer is stuck inside the head of a poor girl in sub-Saharan Africa?” Levelling the playing field will benefit all of us and doesn’t have to mean making things harder for the likes of us, just that bit easier for the likes of them.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1012
An accumulation of too many historic government and economic brain farts for it to be a situation we can fix in 5 minutes mate.
Financially, the throw away culture and desire to pay rock bottom price has created the dependence on economies such as China that operate differently to ours meaning we can’t afford to compete for manufacture or assembly of anything. So we lose all of those ‘low skilled’ positions.
The benefit system is irreparable, too much reliance and no realistic way out once you’re in.
Kids in troubled areas need educating, not just the curriculum but life lessons that intoxicated, absent or just plain stupid parents can’t provide.
An open mind and heart to different races, cultures and religions would go a long way too. I detest religion, but it has historically done a good job of teaching tolerance and morality. If it’s practiced peacefully then good luck to them, but as with most literature some **** will interpret it the wrong way and spread misinformation.
I’m sure there’s more but I’ve been at work all day and started on the sauce so typing is a struggle
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In reply to Post #1017
Jon can’t give his opinion as he will be off to the incinerator......
BB I had it hard but I know so many who had it harder and have made good lives for themselves! Don’t get me wrong there is further hardship than that but it’s the drive that’s lost nowadays and so easy to fall back and then blame it on various factors around them.
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In reply to Post #1016
Hi Wayne,
You have my respect too, with that start in life and shows what can be achieved with drive and ambition.
Good for you.
BB.
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In reply to Post #1011
Hi Jon,
Scozza is right.
Instead of standing on the sidelines making the odd snide comment, why don't you show us the courage of your convictions and give us your opinion on the problems facing US inner city blacks and your solutions to them? Do you actually have an opinion or are you just trolling because you have nothing better to do?
BB.
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In reply to Post #1015
Exactly Scozza and thank you. Kids nowadays want to be on the get rich quick scheme of doing **** all, selling drugs and wanting to be the next stormzy or Ed Sheeran.......you make your own opportunities in life or stagnate and suffer!
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In reply to Post #1014
I grew up on a ****hole council estate with a single parent surrounded by drugs, guns and crime! I knew I didn’t want that for my life so got out and started from the bottom sleeping on peoples couches but working and saving to get myself on a path I was choosing!
Tell you what Wayne, total respect from me
We had **** all when I was a kid but we still had a sense of ambition to do something or should I say this was installed in me from my parents
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In reply to Post #1010
I grew up on a ****hole council estate with a single parent surrounded by drugs, guns and crime! I knew I didn’t want that for my life so got out and started from the bottom sleeping on peoples couches but working and saving to get myself on a path I was choosing!
As for people not having enough money to go to the shops, heating etc well if migrants can get from Iraq / afghan, cross the channel and make a new life in the UK , well I’m sorry but I don’t buy into that at all and proved it myself!
Many will fail trying to better themselves but if they want it bad enough then many can achieve no matter there circumstances!
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In reply to Post #1010
Hi noj,
Whether you agree or not, facts and figures are solid data that give firm reference points in a discussion like this, although I concede they can be somewhat manipulated to suit a narrative.
I disagree that I'm unable to understand the problems of an ethnic group because I haven't experienced them.
A lot of my info comes from intelligent black commentators like Candace Owens, Larry Elder and Senator Tim Scott who all grew up in poverty in the black community and know the score. Black academics like professor
Thomas Sowell and professor Walter Williams, both renowned economists, have written many books on the subject.
I have tried to list the problems and solutions of the US black inner city communities as those experts have spoken and written about and believe they are best qualified to do so.
BB.
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In reply to Post #1010
So what do you think the problems are Jon or the underlying cause?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #1010
Sense at last
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #1006
You’re really not going to understand or begin to solve problems faced by any ethnic group without experiencing it first hand. It’s easy to regurgitate figures and quotes from the internet but without first hand knowledge the ‘experts’, politicians and commentators are pissing in the wind.
I do believe there’s more of a misunderstanding of cultures than discrimination against somebody’s melanin count. Like the post from this morning about people washing their arse instead of wiping contributing to the downfall of the country... wtf
I live in a ****hole and there are as many, if not more, white single mothers and mine was one of them. Doesn’t sell papers reporting on them though.
And anybody wondering why people living on the bread line don’t **** off somewhere else must not understand what life without money means. People can’t afford to get to the shops, let alone buy anything. How are they supposed to relocate when they can’t even eat or turn the heating on?
You’re not escaping that cycle without help and help isn’t there for a lot of people
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In reply to Post #1006
I believe BLM have duped the black community into aiming at the wrong target. Police brutality is a minor issue. They should be protesting the Democrat politicians who have overseen their communities for decades and done little to improve them. The welfare system acts against the 2 parent family rather than encourages it.
That's why mother only families are now about 75%. They insist on blacks attending local failed schools and try and curb the introduction of Charter schools, which give black kids a better education.
Democrats traditionally get 90% of the black vote. It doesn't serve them to try and lift the black community out of the poverty welfare trap.
Agree, or should I say, interesting
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In reply to Post #1006
Great post BB.......
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In reply to Post #1000
The old Norman Tebbit get on your bike solution. Bit so long as ain't a Jonny Foreigner, you stay where you are
#999
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In reply to Post #984
Hi Ocelot,
I don't blame the kid.
If you read all my previous posts, you will see you are, in part, repeating much of what I wrote.
Your analogy about plucking a young kid out of the Bronx has, in reality, been proven by the 1000s of blacks serving the community in high profile, prominent jobs, i.e. senators, state governers, congressmen and women, city mayors, police chiefs, district attorneys, academics, high ranking military etc.
Many intelligent black commentators believe racism is largely a red herring, used by race baiters like Al Sharpton to prolong the victim narrative. They are victims in a way, but the black commentators believe it is as a result of social deprivation, led by father absence, welfare dependency, bad schools, gang culture and crime.
The US Asian community is about 6% and they lead the median income table for all races, by a considerable margin.
Racism has little effect on their success.
I believe BLM have duped the black community into aiming at the wrong target. Police brutality is a minor issue. They should be protesting the Democrat politicians who have overseen their communities for decades and done little to improve them. The welfare system acts against the 2 parent family rather than encourages it.
That's why mother only families are now about 75%. They insist on blacks attending local failed schools and try and curb the introduction of Charter schools, which give black kids a better education.
Democrats traditionally get 90% of the black vote. It doesn't serve them to try and lift the black community out of the poverty welfare trap.
Do your own research to find out what's really going on.
BB.
Edit. As Joe Biden said to a black interviewer, " If you're having trouble deciding whether to vote for me or Trump, then you ain't black."
How insulting is that to the 1.5 million blacks who voted for Trump.
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In reply to Post #1003
I think there is a problem with wages, where work doesn’t pay enough so the incentive to work is reduced.
Totally agree
Business competition and all. I will make one comment, China, and leave it at that, there are not many companies that can compete in the market place and pay decent wages, since they seriously exploit their people and pay them peanuts which in turn has a knock on effect to the rest of the world
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In reply to Post #1000
Let’s go fishing Adolph
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In reply to Post #999
I think there is a problem with wages, where work doesn’t pay enough so the incentive to work is reduced. That’s not to say that benefits should be reduced but I’d like to see a review of the in-work benefits which are in many cases basically subsidies of the private sector. There’s more than one way of ‘sponging off the state’.
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The majority of poverty in the UK is like an amazing life in 3rd world countries.......
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In reply to Post #997
There are 8 million living in poverty sadly
I don't doubt for one minute that we have real poverty in this country but I do believe we have people that plead poverty but a look into their lifestyles tells a different story.
For those with nothing to do and no structure in their life they may be the type of person who occupies their time by watching Netflix/Sky smoking drinking even possibly betting. They might be the person who's fallen into a rut and can't be bothered to cook anymore and eats unhealthily. Now I'm not for one minute saying this is the case for all people out of work but I know these type of people exist. For them they have never known a life without what I've mentioned and to them they see them as basic everyday needs rather than luxuries. Those type of people mask the figures and take away resources needed for real genuine people in poverty.
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In reply to Post #997
Those are valid questions but the answers could be changed.
The area where people live is not beneficial to there future. Leave then.
Lack of jobs. Again, leave.
If there is jobs available in the area, educate yourself to apply for them rather than blaming the system or colour of your skin.
What should we do.......go fishing ......
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In reply to Post #998
Sounds like the easiest option to me
Jokes aside. I think it’s a valid point though, there is a LOT more for governments to acknowledge and look into, more than just what people alone can influence sadly
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In reply to Post #997
Go angling?
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In reply to Post #996
It makes for interesting reading.
So were saying the area where people live is not beneficial for their future, I tend to agree
There is a distinct lack of job opportunities. I agree
People do not have the education or skills to fill the jobs that are available?
Black, white and yellow people, all lives matter
There are 8 million living in poverty sadly
What should we do?
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In reply to Post #994
Those stats are real. There's a problem and it's not working. Hence a movement for change.
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In reply to Post #993
I like that idea
Hope I'm wrong but I Just got a feeling someone will find a fault with it 
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In reply to Post #992
The stats are the stats........reality is many use “I had such a hard life” growing up
Bull****! Your life make of it what you will!
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In reply to Post #989
Maybe we should all do a zoom call.
Obviously it isn’t and like scozza says, there’s generations of it going on. I mentioned my mums a retired teacher and some of the kids plans were to get pregnant at 15/16 so they can get a council house, etc. Encouraged by their parents.
Removing benefits and implementing some form of stamp system that means you can claim differing amounts depending on what you’ve put in via taxes would be a fair way to do it. So if you’ve paid 20 years in taxes and need the support whilst looking for a new job you can get a decent amount not a pittance so your bills can be paid or whatever. If you haven’t paid any taxes then you get next to nothing, encouraging you to find work.
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In reply to Post #991
Not handed ffs, a level playing field. BB"s stats say it's not working as it is.
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In reply to Post #984
Bull**** Ocelot....... why the **** should things be handed to you on a plate! Get off your arse, keep your head down and get educated like everyone else who attends!!!
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In reply to Post #980
There's over 8 million working people in poverty in this country after Osbourne's austerity. Great life! Get the 8 millions wages up the dole figure will fall.
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In reply to Post #988
Aah another one of those forum moments.
It was a question to you and everyone else
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In reply to Post #987
So sponging and getting away with it is a perfectly acceptable way of life?
This bit
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In reply to Post #986
Well I cut and pasted it
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In reply to Post #978
Didn’t say that did I?
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In reply to Post #980
There’s old folks gardens to do, public places to clean up,
I said way back we need people who do these jobs to feel valued. I think I said something like... I'd like to thank people such as road sweepers when I see them for doing a great job of keeping our environment clean and a nicer to be in but they'd probably think I'm taking the piss.
If we make these jobs valued then maybe they'd be less problem getting able bodied people to do them?
Ok maybe I'm a dreamer but they're plenty of those on here
Edit I like the voucher idea but I suppose that's against their human rights or something
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In reply to Post #965
"The black population is about 14% in the US, and they commit over half of the homicides and represent over half of the murder victims"
I know it's a shocking statistic. It proves the USA is getting it wrong still and it's institutional. You know as well as I do that pluck a young kid out of the Bronx send him to a top school then onto Harvard and the kid would become a high earning decent man. Leave the kid in the Bronx, drugs jail murder etc is a likely outcome. Too me that's the thrust of the BLM movement. It's not good enough to just blame the kid.
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In reply to Post #982
Yes good point Jon tax evaders are basically spongers but with bigger bank balances both are unacceptable.
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In reply to Post #979
You raise a good point Jon and it’s something to address no doubt. By addressing this though does that mean we can fund sponging?
It all contributes to the total cost £ at the end of the day
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Do we need a politics thread........
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In reply to Post #977
People wouldn’t come here anymore so immigration would go down massively
I think we can look closer to home first mate. What are we on now, 3rd generation of families that have never worked?
Like I have said earlier in the thread I contribute tax as others do and if it’s going to some good, not a problem at all for me, I would happily pay more if I had to. There’s a lot of people claiming benefits who have the capability to work. Let’s get them back at it
There’s old folks gardens to do, public places to clean up, you name it. You wouldn’t have a business where a percentage of the work force sits on its arse and gets paid. it would shut them down eventually...
Not that hard is it?
You work you get full benefits paid in cash, possibly plus some? you don’t want to work it’s a reduction to baseline survival and it’s paid in vouchers, no Sky vouchers though, that’s a luxury, job done
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #978
What's the cost to the state of spongers vs the cost to the state of tax evasion?
Edit: not particularly in reply to Sir B
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In reply to Post #977
Again, it’s not the people’s fault, it’s the systems. If it wasn’t on offer people wouldn’t be taking it.
So sponging and getting away with it is a perfectly acceptable way of life?
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In reply to Post #973
I’d say angry by the way you speak about them. Annoyed maybe?
Simple solution is no more benefits. Work for your money or be hungry, homeless and poor. People wouldn’t come here anymore so immigration would go down massively (on the basis that everyone that comes here sponges off the government *sarcastic smiley*) and it’ll be all fine and dandy.
Again, it’s not the people’s fault, it’s the systems. If it wasn’t on offer people wouldn’t be taking it.
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In reply to Post #972
Imagine putting everyone in the same boat...by the same means does that mean anyone right wing is a neo-nazi racist??
I think they call it political profiling... apparently the police love to do that too
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In reply to Post #972
To the incinerator
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In reply to Post #973
You make sense Scozza
What an outcry on here if the government got tough on spongers (not genuine people)
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In reply to Post #971
Angry, no, just a debate
Yes, I would like to see them work for their benefits. Should we really give people something for nothing if they have the capability to work? I work to earn a living, I guess you do?
I think it would also make the lower paid jobs that nobody seems to want, the ones the “immigrants” of foreign workers do worthwhile again
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In reply to Post #970
Isn’t that what your saying? You’re angry at people that get benefits and don’t apply themselves because the government gives them money if they don’t?
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In reply to Post #969
Nobody will **** off because they will not get it any better elsewhere sadly
Like you said. People get everything for nothing here pretty much. It’s not their fault. It’s the governments. Be angry with them not people utilising the generosity on offer.
Are you saying the government should stop funding them?
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In reply to Post #967
I said this before. If your logic is followed. Then everyone that didn’t vote Tory would have to leave. Therefore you lose a democracy as everyone would follow one political party. You’d lose almost every person from the country if people that don’t like a part of it left.
Like you said. People get everything for nothing here pretty much. It’s not their fault. It’s the governments. Be angry with them not people utilising the generosity on offer.
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In reply to Post #966
Spanky would be gone in a flash.......
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In reply to Post #966
There’s dislikes and dislikes
I think the message that I am putting across is quite clear?
They won’t **** off because their bread is buttered here, they won’t get it as good anywhere else at the moment sadly
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In reply to Post #964
Can you imagine if everyone that didn’t like something about the country just left? Probably not be many people left here at all Most people don’t like the effing weather for a start!!
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In reply to Post #959
Hi Ocelot,
Just to say what might surprise you, is that I mostly agreed with your views on UK democracy in your spat with Greekskii.
Re the BLM claim of police brutality and murder, the ensuing outrage is fueled by a narrative of racism and victimhood, which doesn't match up with the facts.
The FBI stats for 2018, ( the latest full data I can find ) show that in that year, there were 14123 homicide victims, of which 7407 were blacks, a large majority of which were killed by other blacks.
Of the total of 14123 victims, 410 of all races, were justifiably killed in police confrontations.
In that year 55 police were killed by felons of all races.
Killings of unarmed blacks by police is a debatable number, and at worst just into double figures. It seems agreed that more unarmed whites are killed by police.
The black population is about 14% in the US, and they commit over half of the homicides and represent over half of the murder victims.
Given that 55 police were killed by felons in that year, the stats would suggest that far more police are killed by blacks than blacks are unlawfully killed by police.
In previous posts, I've listed the many social problems that many intelligent black commentators, who grew up in those inner city communities, believe their people face and police brutality is not one of them.
BB.
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In reply to Post #941
What kind of analogy is that lol
I am quite happy the way some things are. If people don’t like it, yes, **** off is my advice
You really cannot see beyond your toes or the colour of ones skin can you. Things have come on a long way and there are opportunities for all, if they want to participate and take them. When you think about it, it’s like a filter ain’t it, natural selection. There’s a reason idiots are at the bottom of the food chain as you could call it whether they be black, white or yellow, skin colour has nothing to do with it
I will repeat myself once again since you cannot read between the lines. There are opportunities for all in this country, you get a free education and you have the chance to progress from there. I’m quite sure a lot of mixed race people have taken this opportunity to educate themselves, get a good job and earn a decent livelihood, I have worked with a lot of the years.
No let’s look at the bottom, black, white, yellow, skin colour has **** all to do with it. They did not get on with the education system, or in the most cases probably did not give a flying **** in a lot of cases. They have progressed through the system and come out of the other end to find out they don’t have many options, to the point they have none and in some cases just give up.
Now, who’s problem is that?
Yours, mine, the governments or could it even be their own, would you believe it
Now don’t tell me BLM because all lives matter because there are a lot of people in the SAME position in the U.K. who we support with benefits and free housing for starters.
So my question then genius is how are you going to make these people employable (when a lot don’t give a ****) so them can earn a living, buy nice cars and houses and live a comfortable life, increase the giro, employ idiots who don’t want to work, can’t communicate and have a ****ing bad attitude in some cases?
How are you going to create all these jobs and opportunities for everybody?
Over to you with the rose tinted glasses and feather duster
Edit
Is it because I’m black, no, it’s because you don't have the education or experience to do the job
It’s it because im white, no it’s because your not capable of doing the job, well how cum that black fella is doing it, because he is capable. Have you thought about picking cabbages because you have not got the right attitude to be a waiter and communicate with people, **** that I would rather sit at home all day and moan about all these coloured folk taking our jobs
It’s works both ways. And guess what ALM in reality
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In reply to Post #962
Which part spanky? Care to Elaborate?
Guess not but we All know your opinion anyway, its a copy and paste from the Guardian or Daily mirror......✊️💦
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In reply to Post #960
Well after reading that , it's no wonder you are so far off with your conspiracy theories !
Devoid of common sense and rational thinking , nice one Wayne as predictable and as idiotic as ever .
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In reply to Post #960
I think your missing the point, deliberately or otherwise. It's wether BLM to authorities and the government. They clearly don't believe they do and all of BB's murders that are allowed to go on proves the point. Authorities run the country not communities.
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In reply to Post #959
1004 police killings in the US last year and roughly 1000 per year for the last 5 years across all races .......that’s roughly 3 a day and hardly surprising when everyone is a loud to arm themselves with assault rifles!!
So far this year 172 white people have been shot by police officers in the US, 88 black people, 57 Hispanics and 14 others.
The BLM movement for change is not about black lives or they would be addressing the issue I said within there own community, it’s about division etc as BB pointed out!
Anyway it’s calmed down now but will no doubt see more race crimes going forward As they push there agenda!!
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In reply to Post #957
So the places you live are rife with murders (a society and police issue) quite possibly with a NHI viewpoint from authorities. The people who are meant to protect you are also killing you (a police issue) for decade after decade. Hardly surprising a movement for change has gained traction.
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In reply to Post #957
Yep BB........
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In reply to Post #953
Hi Wayne,
Patrisse Cullors, one of the founders of BLM has said on camera that they are all ' trained Marxists ' and who's aim is to destroy democracy.
Hawk Newsome, the president of New York BLM said the other day, " If the US doesn't give us what we want, we will burn down this system."
In Chicago, last weekend was their worst ever for violence with over 100 shootings leaving 14 dead, some were children, including a 7 year old girl and a 3 year old boy.
Many commentators and blacks on the street are asking, why BLM is only focusing on the few black, unlawful deaths at the hands of white police and ignore the many 1000s of blacks killed every year, in inner city areas, by other blacks.
BB.
Edit.
Many Democrat mayors in inner city black cities are planning to defund and even disband the police.
Some have deprived the police of pepper spray and tear gas to inhibit their ability to stop rioting.
Police morale is at an all time low and many are leaving and some looking to join more rural police forces.
Many are holding back from their usual patrols and surveillance in inner city areas, hence the sharp increase in lawlessness and shootings.
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In reply to Post #955
I don’t think so, address the real problems in your community using the huge voice they have but not a mention.......says a lot.......
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In reply to Post #953
What hypocrisy? If the movement inspires change that improves trust levels between the police and communities then won’t that improve the chances of preventing and solving crimes within those communities?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #951
well at least the annual BNP rally will still have it's entertainment once Chubby Brown shuffles off....
meanwhile in the real world...
https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/27/mother-murdered-sisters-says-police-accused-sharing-inappropriate-photos-dehumanised-children-12910306/?ito=push-notification&ci=20420&si=9412819
utterly disgraceful.
for every 100 police officers who do the right thing every day, nasty little scrotes like this will always undermine what they do until the system changes.
Black Lives do Matter.
And we live in a multi-cultural and diverse society. If you don't like that then maybe it's you who should go live somewhere else eh?
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In reply to Post #952
**** duvet covers.........just look at the hypocrisy of BLM and their agenda or don’t and be part of the problem......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #951
Blimey, I'd never though of that. You've changed my mind about everything.
Have you seen that picture doing the rounds of a Knight in armour with an England flag on his chest with the words 'An Englishman shall only take a knee to propose, or in front of his monarch' or something like that? Well, I thought that was to ****s like jam is to wasps, but I might see if I can get a duvet cover with it on now.
I'm going to google any statues round here that need defending, not got much on tomorrow. Either that or chain myself to my street name sign, just in case someone wants to change it.
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I hear BLM are organising more protests next weekend but for black on black gun / gang crime and the thousands of deaths that happen each year .........
Damn it, my mistake........they don’t give a **** about that and would rather focus all the attention on a few very rare cases of White police officers getting it very wrong each year ........
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #946
Edit - cheers Mallory.......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #945
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/how-to-report-a-complaint
Knock yourself out.
Please.
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In reply to Post #942
Hi Sir B,
How about if light bulb was changed to fishery rules and room changed to syndicate.
Would that work?
BB.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #945
I do know how you can complain actually
It's a little known fact that every UK domestic and commercial property is fitted with a system for complaining in exactly these circumstances. There is a small red button inside the bottom left-hand hole in every plug socket that summons help. All you need to do is get a coat hanger ....
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Anyone know how I can complain about MTV and the songs it plays!! I’m sick to death of hearing the N word and it should be banned from playing these songs on its channel and ALL songs that use this word should be banned worldwide......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #941
Steady on there Mal ... you can't say 'light' bulb nowadays. They want to change the word to 'non dark' bulb, to be more inclusive, or something, but whatever it is, I've bloody had enough of it!
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In reply to Post #941
Poor analogy.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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How many xenophobes does it take to change a light bulb?
'Why should we change it? It's OUR light bulb in OUR room and if people don't like it they should f off to their own room. It doesn't matter if it doesn't work, it's been there for years. Bloody do gooders wanting to fix stuff. We need to defend our light bulbs! Etc etc...'
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The problem we have here is as soon as facts are brought to liberal he-she lefties they shout racist.
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In reply to Post #938
Like I said, why should other cultures respect ours when we don’t respect theirs. We all should respect each others but we chose not to. Look in Dubai, you have English secure compounds because they don’t want to follow the rules of that culture.
Familiar background tone here, sounds similar to racism unfortunately
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In reply to Post #930
I don’t know. The amount of restaurants I’ve been to in tourist destinations that offer pizza, spag Bol. Lasagne, etc. To cater for English tourists. I know plenty of people that won’t eat “foreign muck” as they call it but then go off to Spain, Greece, France, etc. On holiday. And they certainly aren’t eating their local cuisine.
Like I said, why should other cultures respect ours when we don’t respect theirs. We all should respect each others but we chose not to. Look in Dubai, you have English secure compounds because they don’t want to follow the rules of that culture.
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In reply to Post #933
Exactly
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In reply to Post #934
Been once, what a **** hole
Ironic though, as you say, if it wasn’t for British piss heads it would be just another windswept dusty beach
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #930
I went to Magaluf a few years back and wanted to experience a proper paella and trimmings. A kid you not there was not one restaurant selling Spanish food. What do you expect if you went to Magaluf I hear you say?
And the reason is they want us to come over and spend our money so they gear up their resort to maximise their income.
I'm not saying that's wrong but if you don't want boozy Brits in your country don't cater for them
PS
I was respectful and behaved myself while I was there
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In reply to Post #929
Giod job many people decided to fight for change in our history rather than fookin off. King Charles 1st would have been made up if Cromwell had heeded that advice.
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In reply to Post #931
Start a new thread, English lessons, some may participate, some may not
Tolerable
of a quality that is acceptable, although certainly not good:
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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It's 'tolerant', not 'tolerable' everyone. FFS.
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In reply to Post #927
Without our input from tourism they would be flat on theirs arses places like Spain and Greece etc.
I agree though, we should respect there values the same as we expect them to respect ours
Do you go to Spain to have pie and chips spot do you go to experience their culture, each to their own I guess
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In reply to Post #924
It’s as simple as this for me. This country was founded on Christian values and our society has been built around our values. The values where our forefathers put their lives in the lines to make it what it is today (dare I say that). Respect and abide by our values. If you do not like it then the simple message for me is, **** off!
We are quite a tolerable country where everybody gets a free education and healthcare, a couple of things, like many such as freedom, etc etc what go together to make this country great, the same couple of things everybody wants a piece of and if you want a piece of this then respect the rest of our values and society, it comes as a package, you can’t pick and choose, the message is simple again, if you do not like it, **** off somewhere better or somewhere what will tolerate you wishes
I am proud to be British and I am proud of our country. Anybody who lives here should be the same and if you don’t like the flavour then go somewhere else, it’s simple for me
White British, that’s whats on most surveys (used to be Caucasian, mongols and Africans, three main races). In this country that is what the majority of people are and that is what our country and values are built around. If your a minority then you need to accept this, even though we do tolerate a lot of other stuff and offer peoples dreams and wishes. They are a minority. Just the same as I would be if I went to live in Africa. Africa would be the number 1 tickbox, White British probably wouldn’t have one
I am sick to the back teeth or people screaming out that this is wrong and that is. Too many hypocrites in this country and society at the moment. We do it our way, and we even let you do it your way but we can only tolerate so much. if you don’t like it, **** off
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In reply to Post #925
Yes but it's relatively new is the point. Why? Extreme ideologies hijacking religions to further their cause. The IRA is a case in point. Hijacked a civil rights movement that was campaigning for one person one vote for Catholics. Which was denied to them by the voting system in NI even in 1969. The rest is history. There you go Greeki back to democracy
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In reply to Post #918
Ironic that when brits go abroad they don’t respect the values of other countries or the language either
I think if other countries encourage us to take holidays and spend money in their countries then there's no need to learn a second language but we should behave respectfully. However I think if we go to live abroad it goes without saying to act respectfully and we must make every effort to learn their language.
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In reply to Post #922
That proves my point then doesn’t it? We are too tolerable as an authority against it. And by issues I mean level of issues we seem to have here, but then it plays in to media narrative to highlight foreign criminals and not British ones.
It’s ironic that people moan about foreigners and then do the exact same thing abroad. It basically means you can’t complain about exporting culture to another country however right or wrong you feel it is. When British people go abroad and respect the laws and culture all the time then people can moan about it. IMO anyway
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In reply to Post #923
Agree. And more so a threat in other areas of the world, which was my point.
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In reply to Post #917
I mentioned Havelock Road in Southall/Ealing the other day. The road has been there for hundreds of years and in 2003 they opened a gurdwara temple the largest outside of India. No problems so far.
But now they want to change the road name because it's offensive, if that's the case why would you build the gurdwara there in the first place? I suggest it was never a problem for 1000's of people who were happy to worship there but someone is trying to put unhelpful ideas into the minds of those people.
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In reply to Post #921
Christianity has been around a long time in every country in the world. Living side by side with all manor of religions for hundreds and in some cases over a thousand years. Persecution has gone on down the years especially in certain countries in the last couple of decades by extremist ideologies. People with extreme views cause conflict over others religion, they are in a minority.
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In reply to Post #918
Many many countries have immigrants and do not have the issues we seem to have here
What a load of bollox. I would say we are extremely tolerant compared to the Germans for starters!
Why, because it does not make the BBC news?
Edit - I also posted previously about how English people in other country’s perceive the locals as foreigners, it is deeply embedded in our genes, hardly going to wipe that out easily are you. Same as it’s embedded in all other people form other countries too!
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In reply to Post #919
Agree. But in certain areas do you think a Christian church would go down well and be tolerated?
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In reply to Post #916
Can’t really include stabbings can you. Got kids stabbing each other every day all over the country. From big cities to small villages. It’s not an issue caused by immigrants.
Neither is any of the crimes you mentioned apart from bombings. All those crimes are committed by British people too. Child grooming and abuse in the north where the police failed to do their job, two national treasures being allowed to systematically abuse children using their fame for decades and it to ignored by everyone. Bombings are terrorists, same as the IRA bombings but you never called for an eradication of Irish in this country. Probably the only crime you can say occurs solely due to immigrants. Although plenty of them are British and then radicalised.
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In reply to Post #917
There are millions of Christian's in Pakistan.
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In reply to Post #917
Ironic that when brits go abroad they don’t respect the values of other countries or the language either. They bring Britain to those countries they live in and don’t learn the language, preferring to shout in English instead.
Many many countries have immigrants and do not have the issues we seem to have here. Which makes you think what is the actual problem then? How can other countries have similar levels of immigration and tolerances to ethnic communities yet the issues are much less prevalent?
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In reply to Post #914
Quite ironic isn’t it
Tell you what fascinates me, how people can build thousands of mosques around the country (and they can claim grants towards) and pray in peace and quite. As well as the rouge ones that promote extremist views and terrorism
I mean, could you imagine building a Christian church in the middle of Pakistan or somewhere similar, it would be burned down and everybody would be slaughtered within hours. It’s a good job we are a tolerable country and everybody and anybody can **** on our doorstep
Here’s one for thought and I believe should happen. Any mosque that has fuelled or supported extremism should be bulldozed to the ground. That sounds pretty fair to me
If you are in our country, please respect our country and values as we tolerate yours, if not, **** off
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Sorry my apologies there has been no bombings no child rape and no stabbings again my apologies as things like this does not happen in the UK.
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In reply to Post #908
Should have dropped the ****!......and should also force the issue with the plod!
This I’m sure will become more of a problem.......
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Yes sorry my mistake bombings stabings child grooming raping forced mariages sharia courts all the things that help make the UK great. Yes we need more immigrants that wipe there arse with there hand thing yes more please
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #912
only for the small minded
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Multiculturalism from way different cultures has failed big time
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In reply to Post #910
Probably was
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #908
Surely it was all recorded on CCTV?
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In reply to Post #908
He has the right to be fuming but sadly I can't say I'm shocked by that story
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Phoned my mate this afternoon, he was on his way back from Kings hospital with his family, pulled into a petrol station there’s a bloke outside ranting, as his wife and kids were going into the shop he decided to follow, he speaks to the bloke and tells him to calm down and offered to buy him some food, the bloke said yes so mate went in... bloke follows and starts screaming I don’t want nothing from you white homie, you’re just white trash etc etc, my mate by the way is a 6ft 4 karate black belt so he stood sideways on so he could be ready just in case, the bloke then shouts at him that he is going to stab him, all this was happening in front of a queue of witnesses, one of which had called the police, they quickly turned up but when my mate tried to tell the officer what was said and what had happened the copper didn’t want to know, think that would have been different the other way round, my mate is absolutely fuming
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In reply to Post #906
Yeah I think you missed the point to go on a mini rant
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In reply to Post #885
Greekskii:
"Just some articles for you guys
no proof of links to ANTIFA
no links to covid19"
They ARE the facists! My god man, but i suppose it's high-end game theory at it's best though to be fair (call yourselves the 'anti' group and then do all the text book things a facist regime does..), yeah...sounds legit...
The wood is there, next to the the other tree's mate.
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In reply to Post #904
Is it one of those little port holes that faces inwards to the middle of the ship or one that points outwards towards the sea?
Your relationship may depend on it . Actually if it's anything like my relationship you take the **** with the ****
BUT THERE IS A MAGIC COFFEE TABLE
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #902
Listening may be an exaggeration, there’s definitely a window where I get to talk though.. albeit one of those little cabin windows on a ferry
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #895
Was it a forum member? I can guess at a couple it could be attributed to....
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In reply to Post #901
She actually listens? You are doing well
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #898
I’ve been honing my debating for a good few years.. she now listens to most of my point before telling me I am wrong
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In reply to Post #897
Read the link in #886
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In reply to Post #896
Close
Verwoerd. Social engineering planner and later Prime Minister of South Africa. Assassinated 66.
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In reply to Post #892
Yes if I don't always entirely agree I always agree to a point with Noj. A voice of reason
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In reply to Post #894
I have no idea what your talking about?? 12 year old girl?? Wtf is that all about......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #893
“The Bantu must be guided to serve his own community in all respects. There is no place for him in the European community above the level of certain forms of labour. Within his own community, however, all doors are open".
Who said that? Didn't end well for him or his ideology
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In reply to Post #893
Sound very determined there. But then you also think it isn’t an issue either so.
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In reply to Post #891
Racism cannot and will not be stopped.......end of discussion really......
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In reply to Post #888
Well said on all points
It is / has got to the point where there are not enough officers to cope. Northern forces are on standby and may have to support the situation
You have to fight fire with fire for me. I saw that **** smashing the car up, they should have beat him big time. Are people seriously going to tell me that’s the wrong way to deal with a **** like that
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In reply to Post #890
To be honest I’d say social services need to step in. You have a child being brainwashed in to being a racist...which will spread to her children most likely too. The social step in for much much less.
Educate the children and take tough action on racists and racism all but goes away. There will be devout racists but they will be such a small minority....less than they are now and fade in to insignificance.
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In reply to Post #886
That is pretty embarrassing. A 12 year old girl!
Somebody has made her like that ffs!
I think they raise a valid point though about training staff. How do you deal with a 12 year old hurling verbal and trying physical abuse!
Smack her in the teeth, smack her parents in the teeth, tell her that she is a very naughty girl and should not do that ever again!!!
Start with parents, there is something seriously missing there sadly
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In reply to Post #887
Well if you think that my post below is acceptable and normal from an 11/12yr old and nothing needs to change then I’m pretty sure your part of the problem.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #883
Why shouldn’t women be on the front line BB, dishwasher gets lonely?
Concerning times with the Brixton situation, I said before that the MET don’t actually have the muscle or firepower to police London if the proverbial really hit the fan.
They’re stuck between a rock and a hard place where the world’s eyes are on them in relation to treatment of the public, but this mob really want ironing out with a baton
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In reply to Post #883
BLM is All well and good.........BUT as you say **** all will change and does it need changing anyway......I don’t think it does! Things will go back to normal soon!!
As for Pulling down statues and changing names of roads......WTF does that do, nothing apart from let a select few act like ****s and a majority thinking there being heard when the reality is people listen and then don’t act on there voice so it is old chip shop paper News within a few weeks.......
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This is my local McDonald’s. Young girl. Someone’s teaching children to behave this way. Shocking.
here
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In reply to Post #883
I don’t think they have done the cause any justice all, quite opposite. What turns out to be a “street party” turns out to be BLM, black on blue fest when it all kicks off.
Might be some truth in what you say, the minority spoil it for the majority, people will just get fed up with it and it will be another flavour of the month
There is a clear lack of respect here and that is point number 1 that needs to be addressed. Good job all those thousands of knob heads laid on the beach together like sardines in a tin didn’t kick off and have a riot ain’t it!
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In reply to Post #876
Hi Scozza,
I know you have a particular concern about the scores of police being injured over the past weeks, because your wife is a police officer. I hope she is staying safe and not in the front line, which is no place for female officers.
I tend to agree with Sir B that the silent majority may be becoming sceptical about the developments emerging from BLM re the removal of statues and looking for anything like road names, that might be construed as having a racial connotation.
I suspect that many may be beginning to believe that BLM has now been blown out of all proportion.
I believe that this will all blow over in a few weeks and that little will change. Companies donating money and making conciliatory noises are paying lip service for their own expediency. Re employment, they will carry on recruiting in their own best interests. Mook and others have shown that racial intolerance can be a factor between all races in the workplace and no doubt, also on the street, when different cultures interact.
Human nature is such that, casual racism will always exist to some extent and the trick is, not to try and eradicate it, because you can't, but to encourage people to rise above it.
Education and the path it leads to is the key. When people make good choices as to their future and become responsible members of mainstream society, they lose the yoke of victimhood and have the armour of self confidence to look down and dismiss any discrimination.
BB.
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In reply to Post #879
They are all bad
Pubs fights as well
And we shouldn't accept it by saying 'oh well that's what happens'
I'd start a protest group about it but it'll only end in a fight
I hope the injured police make a quick recovery and the troublemakers a slow one( was going to say I hope they don't recover but that would probably break forum rules)
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In reply to Post #879
No difference at all
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In reply to Post #877
Wait until the pubs open, on a Saturday of all days.
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note that it's being misreported then. The police are saying unlicensed music event, just like those illegal manchester raves we heard about last week. the MSM are calling it a party. the two are different.
The manchester illegal raves ended in murders, violence between attendees and not the police. This ended in no deaths and violence toward the police. Both bad, but at least there were no murders (so far) linked to this illegal music event.
Compare the 'party' to the 'party' the right wingers had in London under the guise of 'protecting statues' what is the difference? Booze & drugs and then kicking off with police. whole lot of the same thing really.
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It was done purely to provoke the police, they wouldn't normally having parties in the street.
Honestly if you banned shi****ng in your own shoes, some clown would be desperate to do it just to throw off the chains of oppression
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In reply to Post #876
Doesn't sound good does it, can we really write this off as just a bit of youth exuberance due to boredom?
Wasn't if they were protesting about a worthwhile cause and it got out of hand.
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BBC news latest:
Twenty-two police officers have been injured and their vehicles damaged during clashes at an illegal street party in south-west London.
Two officers and two people at the party were taken to hospital following the "unlicensed music event" in Brixton on Wednesday night.
Four people were arrested during the clashes.A Downing Street spokesman said: "These were appalling scenes. Violence against the police will not be tolerated."
The Met described the attacks on police as "totally unacceptable".
Police arrested four people for assault and public order offences
A dispersal order had been put in place earlier in the day and police officers tried to encourage the crowd to leave following complaints from residents.
The event near Angell Town continued so more officers attended and the group became hostile, the Met Police said.
Footage on social media showed a number of police vehicles being smashed and officers being chased.
Another video also appears to show two men being attacked with a knife.
London Ambulance Service said two partygoers were taken to hospital in police vehicles, with one needing treatment at a major trauma unit.
Four people were arrested for assault and public order offences. They remain in custody.
Volunteers have been cleaning up the site of the street party
The Prime Minister's official spokesman said the government would shortly be launching a consultation on doubling the maximum sentence for assaulting an emergency worker.
The spokesman said: "We have been clear that anyone who assaults the police or any of our emergency service workers who keep us safe should feel the full force of the law."
Michael, a local bus driver who did not want to give a his surname, said it was "very upsetting" the violence had happened in his area.
"The whole thing should have been shut down earlier," he said.
Police later implemented a Section 60 order, which gives increased stop and search powers.
Large crowds gathered in Brixton for an unlicensed music event, police said
Ken Marsh, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said nearly 30 of his colleagues were "walking wounded".
"No-one expects this level of violence and hostility to just erupt at the speed it does towards police. It's horrendous," he said.
He also raised concerns about large gatherings when lockdown is eased and pubs reopen on 4 July, saying "ultimately it always seems to fall on the police's shoulders to deal with everything".
"There is no place in society for disorder and wanting to cause violence and pain and grief towards public and police alike," Mr Marsh said.
Home Secretary Priti Patel tweeted: "Just last weekend, the whole country came together to praise our heroic police officers for putting their own lives on the line to keep us safe.
"I'll be picking up with the Met Commissioner immediately."
Cdr Colin Wingrove said: "These gatherings are unlawful, as well as posing a risk to public health and against coronavirus restrictions.
"The violence shown towards officers is totally unacceptable and we will not tolerate it in any form."
What a bunch of ****ing idiots
Serves them right if they all get it. Knob heads
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In reply to Post #874
I heard they threw a Zimmer frame at a police horse
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In reply to Post #873
Ok this is accidently becoming a COVID thread I'm sure the pensioners didn't riot
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #871
I expect young people are well aware of the fact that Covid poses little risk to them so are more inclined to ignore the social distancing guidelines, especially once they've had a drink.
The most irresponsible scenes I've seen photos of was the idiotic VE day street party full of pensioners eating cake that an elderly relation sent me.
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In reply to Post #871
I think the main thing to take from the two stories, the Brighton one lays out in detail what happened whereas the Brixton one doesnt, it eludes to why a riot occurred. Something sparked it and only the police and the partygoers know what that was. Where the police aggressive? Was something said out of turn? Was it just because the demographic of people there are likely to not like the police anyway due to lifestyle choices?
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In reply to Post #869
That one was totally wrong as well then but as you say that one was eventually dispersed without a riot so not as newsworthy.
So that two incidents both totally wrong.
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In reply to Post #865
People think and react in different ways. Rave/ Tribal gathering events will always happen, just that it's against the lockdown rules at the minute. It's difficult to stop young people doing what they want. I've heard a few raves have been organised by dealers for obvious reasons but don't know how true that is.
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In reply to Post #868
They were called in. The crowd got angry but did disperse eventually. Police didn’t arrive in an aggressive manner and it was dealt with. Not being reported on most MSM outlets though. You can find it here
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In reply to Post #867
That's wrong as well, local authorities should've prevented it but if the police were called in I'd doubt they'd been a riot.
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In reply to Post #865
What about the 2000 strong party on a Brighton beach? No riot but many more people and loads of rubbish left.
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In reply to Post #864
It's ok to back the cause but to say breaking social distancing is ok is wrong.
Social distancing is there for a reason and some scientists are saying we are relaxing it too fast.
That's why the street party shouldn't have happened.
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In reply to Post #861
OK so you get a bit bore but you have a party anyway and after a while you're told to stop so, do you think 'oh well it was ok while it lasted but I understand it breaks lockdown and is putting people at risk or do you think I'm not having that and cause a mini riot.
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In reply to Post #860
studies in the US are saying the BLM protests and the anti-lockdown protests have not caused an increase in infections. This is just the US and of course only one or two studies and could all be different here but positive signs that it didnt cause an increase there as it was a lot busier and a lot less masks and social distancing.
Hopefully a similar study finds the same over here so all those "I cant back BLM because the protests will cause loads of deaths" can now back it without excuse
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #858
agreed
I see the numpty from Burnley has lost his job. Can't imagine many employers would want to be associated with him. Perhaps he can become a freelance journalist with his mate Tommy....
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In reply to Post #859
More commonly known as...
"His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular"
Jon
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In reply to Post #856
The problem since lockdown rules started to change is lots of the things people do in their leisure time for enjoyment are still banned. But the boring necessary thing's like work etc aren't. Sooner the better all restrictions are lifted, the less pissed off people will be and less inclined to piss about.
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In reply to Post #858
I'm still a bit concerned about social distancing when protesting but I get what you're saying
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #857
General cobbler's?
Didn't he command a regiment in North Africa?
But seriously, there's a conspiracy thread already.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #856
The BLM protests have done something, raised awareness, and got people talking about the subject.
Street parties are completely different - just an excuse for people to do what they want and just daft given the Covid situation, and if those attending attack the police they should get nicked.
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In reply to Post #851
General cobbler's?
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Anyway back on track of sorts there was a mini riot in Brixton last night due to an unlawful street party.
I know lockdown is difficult but we're not going to get through it when we have rallies, protests and now unlawful street parties.
I know some of you are anti police so what's you thoughts on this?
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In reply to Post #854
Only a bit of fun everybody
War
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In reply to Post #851
Yes it can be like that Monty Python sketch
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Last 3 posts, spot on
I think general arguing would be good, get rid of this lockdown frustration
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In reply to Post #851
Certainly not "Non carp" anyway
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #850
Or just 'general arguing'
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In reply to Post #849
Serious suggestion why not create a history thread?
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In reply to Post #848
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In reply to Post #835
You can be like pulling teeth buddy. You're not wrong on everything don't do yourself down! I already knew the parts that you posted that were correct. The wooly and half truths is your interpretation.
Currently brushing up with half a dozen books on Angola and the war of independence. Always been interested in sub Saharan Africa, go there quite often angling. Funnily enough last week I re-acquainted myself with
the exploits and ending for Costas Georgiou and his band of not so merry men.
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In reply to Post #846
Yep , studied in the uk and married a woman who was born and raised in London , we loved him , doesn't matter how fiddled the elections are , he won with 90 % of the vote albeit where his vote was guaranteed where he had opposition didn't matter , that's democratic enough for us and America , our governments don't give a fuc* how democratic a country is , the only thing of relevance is how open to corruption they are with a preference to our companies , and when they oppose this they die ,
Surely this is common knowledge , i can't believe people still believe the "sharing democracy bullsh** !
My parents had a holiday in Syria , they went for a camel ride in the desert and stayed overnight , the guide , like everyone else would ask them , " why are we the enemy of the west " under the axis of evil program , what a crock of shi* , all the history that was destroyed , the so called "cradle of civilization " ! if you hold these views that it's ok to behave like this , you should hang your head in shame ,
We have not changed for 100's of years , if we want , we take !fuc* the consequences or the death toll !
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In reply to Post #845
Assad? Bashar al-Assad? Son of Hafez al-Assad? Of Syria? That Assad?
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Assad , recognized by the UN and democratically elected , fell out with the west , so they tried to remove him , illegally , now it looks like America has admitted defeat , again , after destroying another country !
Who's next !
feckin idiots !
Update , Trump is likely to respond to a "godzilla dust cloud " from the sahara desert , he said "it could of been wafted over by isis and helped along by the Russians"
Stay alert !
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In reply to Post #843
That's the place where everyone's life is just a ma z I n g and they take pictures of the breakfast isn't it
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In reply to Post #842
By real lives do you mean Facebook?
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In reply to Post #841
Unlike us lot who spend far too much time on here the Joe's are living real lives and would never dream of coming on here
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #840
Me neither. Worse than me and BB.
Neither, I suspect, does your mate Joe ****ing Average
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In reply to Post #839
I don't know what you're going on about but whatever it is we don't care
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In reply to Post #837
Karen’s only get spoken to in public sorry but no we have established that Karen knew everything I said was fact there is no more to be said about it
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #836
Don't suppose you stole any 'souvenirs'...?
Pm with prices please
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In reply to Post #835
Do you pair mind ****ing off to pm.We are busy laughing at Mal thinking he's going to marry some poor man's Whitney Houston
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In reply to Post #834
Good luck with that, I did a tour with her once, let's just say, if she was a dog she'd walk backwards wagging her head
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In reply to Post #833
1 - vice versa. But you seem to be crying a lot and getting super triggered there Karen so something must be.
2 - if you knew it why did you say something else happened Just makes you look the fool 🤡🤡
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #832
I can't argue with any of this.
I'm still marrying her though.
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In reply to Post #829
Two points for future reference then I'll put you back and you can slither off.
1- It is impossible for you to offend me.
2- Everything you've posted in this amusing exchange I already knew.
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In reply to Post #831
Its no longer a Mic drop moment its a hairbrush tantrum
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In reply to Post #830
What two failed musicians fighting over who's singing into the hair brush next
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #828
Yeah laugh it up you lot
You know you'd all pay good money to watch..
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In reply to Post #826
There was no democracy in Cyprus BECAUSE the British refused to let them have it. Do some history lessons. It’s not my fault you only acknowledge certain parts of history as you’ve proved time and time again.
Why didn’t I mention them, because we weren’t taking about them. You were commenting how Britain installed democracy to Cyprus? But you got your history wrong as I’ve pointed out above and in my previous post. Britain opposed a democracy in Cyprus and denied them it. They didn’t bring democracy to Cyprus they were guarantors of the Zurich treaty. It’s not even hard to educate yourself on it. You just choose not to which is sad.
It’s really funny how you try to push a personal agenda in to your posts. It shows a vulnerability within you that you can’t actually have a discussion without getting so offended when people tell you facts that oppose your “Britain is perfect and a world saviour” ideology. But I’ll answer your question - no he wouldn’t have.
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In reply to Post #827
Like rats in a barrel
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In reply to Post #825
Just knew you'd come along and say that
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In reply to Post #820
Thought so
How come you never mentioned the scores of British troops and police hanged, assassinated, blown up and the Cypriot/Turkish civilians murdered and raped by the Greek nationalist movement EOKA and General Grivas? Like you started off with if you're gonna teach history to kids and all that ...My uncle served over there in the 50's, could he have bumped into relative's or hero's of yours. There was no democracy until the laughing stock British saved the day again
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In reply to Post #824
Can u imagine the arguments you would have over the curlers and hairspray
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #822
keebs - watch it. that's the future mrs mal you're talking about...
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In reply to Post #822
Yeah - exactly - Leona's the one who ruined the Snow Patrol song
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In reply to Post #821
Yes you're absolutely right Mal I got it wrong.
Ok count me in I'm up for a fight
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #819
I think that's Alexandra Burke you're thinking of tinhead. I'll put it down to your old age rather than going all Samuel L Jackson on you....
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In reply to Post #818
Funny how you don’t quite understand history in its entirety and just chose to make sweeping statements that are not accurate. It doesn’t take much to read all about it and educate yourself. Mainly on the basis that what your referring to is Cyprus... which has Turkish and Greek populations on it.
The greek junta collapsed after Turkish invasion of Cyprus. The treaty of peace was formed between Cyprus, Greece, Turkey and Britain (as Cyprus is a former Empire State of Britain - it was the EOKA which actually got it independence from Britain with backing from the population) Makarios was the first president of independent Cyprus. Britain remains as a guarantor of independent Cyprus, hence their involvement. Don’t forget that the British empire refused to let Cyprus have a democracy up until then and Palmer (the governed at the time) did everything he could to suppress a local interest in politics.
So no - Britain didn’t give democracy to Cyprus or Greece. In fact they refused to let Cyprus have it until 1959 when the Zurich agreement was signed to declare its independence.
Populations crossed to their respective sides of Cyprus by agreement between the Greeks and Turkish with no violence required. They did a population swap as it’s known to allow safe passage. UN and British SBA (sovereign based area) forces oversaw it.
Learn your history before expressing wildly inaccurate opinions as facts
Honestly you get so triggered it’s hilarious Can the mods please rename him Karen
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In reply to Post #816
I won't be fighting over her she looks a bit like a bloke and ruined Hallelujah.
Jon stop asking questions I'm trying to be done!
Let's just say I use specially selected people including black people as barometers, people who believe in BLM the rest I ignore.
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In reply to Post #812
I've a full repertoire
Mind you they've a history of being deadly snakes. Luckily the laughing stock British were around in 74 to save 10's of thousands from massacre and reimpose democracy. Even after the murderous terrorist campaign of EOKA and General Grivas. Not a relative are you or still holding a torch for EOKA and Makarios
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Bob, what makes you so sure that your ‘Mr Average’ is going to get fed up with the whole BLM thing on the strength of non-stories like the road in Ealing?
You keep saying that there are only a few contributors to these threads, which is true, but to say the silent majority see things from your point of view is a bit of an assumption I’d say. While Joe Average might be looking for reasons to dismiss BLM and thinking it’s time they shut up, who’s to say Norman Normal isn’t thinking ‘yeah, fair enough, why not change things a bit’?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #815
no chance. He'd have to fight me for either
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In reply to Post #814
tinhead eating a jaffa cake off leona lewis
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #813
I usually reserve the back of my mind for Jaffa cakes and Leona Lewis but I'll make space
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In reply to Post #810
Hi Mal as I said I'm done (for now anyway) but just to say to your last sentence and maybe keep my 2 previous posts in the back of your mind?
I'm now off to complain about my own street name as it's associated with the Battle of Hastings
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In reply to Post #811
look whos back with pointless comments
being offered something isnt the same as asking for it
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In reply to Post #809
Very unreliable NATO members the Greeks aren't they. Spunk up everyone else's money then snake off to the Russian's when it's time to pay up
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #800
Morning tinhead.
I get what you're saying about joe average and agree to an extent. I'd say right now though it's more important to be getting through to joe business owner, joe decision maker, joe policy maker, basically joe 'in power' as there are systematic changes that need to be made. Once this starts to happen, then joe average will be able to see things differently and have the chance to get on board with it.
Changes in education will help. Greekskii made a good point about the teaching of German history in their schools. If the students I've worked with are representative then the youth are far more open to change and accepting of diversity. That's not a dig at olds by the way. And that keeps me hopeful. For them, diversity is something to be excited about, to celebrate, not simply to tolerate (which basically means 'I can still dislike / disapprove / fear / hate etc. But I'll put with it. )
There is a bigger momentum this time but we need to make sure it doesn't fade away before the right kind of changes happen. If a few resistant noses are bent in the process then maybe that needs to happen for the greater good. There might be some 'oh ffs sake' moments but changing a street name doesn't hurt anyone.
We might not be on the same page, but I do at least think we're reading the same book
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In reply to Post #808
I never said they were run perfectly did I? Just that you have a lot of other countries, even those in turmoil at times, that don't quite understand why this country does the things it does and laughs at us.
Funnily enough with Greece, the EU were not actually going to bail them out, but with pressure applied from the states because of the air bases situated there, they did. Not to mention that a lot of medicinal plants are grown for the Europe in Greece too. Greece had a deal set up with Russia to bail them out but part of it included removing US military facilities and to set Russian military facilities replace them. This is why the EU actually bailed them out.
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In reply to Post #807
So other countries are ran perfectly and have never needed our help?How much debt were Greece in and needed hand outs from the rest of the EU £323billion at one point.Every country is laughed at by others,look how the world is laughing at Trump now
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In reply to Post #806
All you have to do is talk to people outside this country to realise Britain has been a laughing stock for around 10-20 years. I’ve spoken to people that have been beyond belief about how the country is rab and those in charge and decisions that have been made.
And before anyone starts crying over the above, it isn’t a reflection on the people as a whole or culture as a whole, it’s merely a case that people outside of this country are consistently confused about what actually goes on here.
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We lead the world in something
Financial corruption , right up there as number 1
A massive advantage for the select few and a massive disadvantage for the majority !
We are quickly becoming a laughing stock around the world now , as they watch our bumbling lying politicians make a complete mess of everything that they touch !
BONG
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In reply to Post #802
Possibly keeping their thoughts to themselves
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In reply to Post #781
Well said Braders. Similar thinking to me.
Europe is just across the Channel, boat or even a train ride now, **** off if you don’t like it
Do us a favour though, if they do, please don’t come back, especially for our benefits as that would be pretty hypocritical to say the least!
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In reply to Post #777
We used to be the world leaders in many manufacturing sectors. As usual, bought out by foreign business, raped our technology and ideas, closed them down and taken it all abroad and the government just sat by and let it all happen
Anyway, BLM
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In reply to Post #801
Don't know you'll have to ask people individually but we have a very active forum yet only a handful of contributors on here, that sort of says something.
OK I really must be done now goodnight
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In reply to Post #800
Upsetting people who lack empathy or any understanding of our complex history?
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In reply to Post #799
Don't focus on that it's not the point. It's alienating people you need to make change that you need to focus on
No good complaining that change hasn't happened when you haven't engaged the masses.
Actually I do think some changes for the good will happen this time but not to it's fullest potential.
I can tell by the replies that people must be scratching their heads thinking 'what's the problem?'
All I can say is that not everyone thinks the same as you. There's a whole wide world outside this thread, most people are good people but don't make the mistake thinking they have the same thoughts as you.
I think i'm done now if I haven't got through now I don't think I ever will
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Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
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In reply to Post #796
Ask the emergency services they are the ones who showed concern.
I'm not getting through am I, you need the masses on board to make change
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In reply to Post #794
luckily I don't think this is going to go away quietly as it impacts on so many lives day to day
I think it will lose impetus as it's not being done the right way to get Joe Average onboard.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #795
the emergency services need to be consulted
So presumably, if the emergency services say 'No, we've already got a Massive Temple Avenue, any change would cause massive confusion', then it won't get changed.
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In reply to Post #793
No don't live in Ealing, emergency services is a good enough reason
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #788
agreed - luckily I don't think this is going to go away quietly as it impacts on so many lives day to day
we can live in hope I guess.
tinhead - don't stress about the streetname. at least you don't ever get stuck trying to get up Alan Shearer Way like I do...
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #792
Do you live in Ealing?
Your quote days local residents are being consulted, so if they are ok with it, what's the problem?
Edit
Maybe they could just change it to Have a Look Road with some insulation tape on the signs
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In reply to Post #791
No need to change the name of the road.
The emergency services needed to be consulted, as do local residents, whose property deeds will be affected by the name change.
The issue is sensitive because Europe’s biggest gurdwara, the Sri Guru Singh Sabha, which is at the heart of the Sikh community in Southall, stands on Havelock Road.
Why did they build it there if it causes offence?
Edit
To get a better idea to your question you need to ask Joe Average who do not frequent this thread
As I said BLM is a good idea but being spoiled by needless changes.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #789
But why?
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The comments about moving away to somehow else reminded me of this joke
LINK
And this song borrowed from the other thread
LINK
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In reply to Post #787
No I'm pissed off what's happening in Ealing
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In reply to Post #783
Agree with you here Mal, but it’s a trait of the majority. Look at the ocean plastics issue. A documentary with a turtle with a straw up its nose and the entire country goes Beserk, yet they are happy that plastic straws got banned and plastic bags are charged for, like the entire issue is now solved and it’s left to the ones that were kicking up a fuss anyway to keep on doing so without the backing of the general public.
The majority only get outraged for a week or so and then go back to the quiet life away from the issues. It suits them, and each to their own, but it means the problems never get resolved. Being fed up of it just means you want it to go away now and be forgotten about, not actually deal with the issues.
The irony being that the government relies on this type of attitude on every issue to be able to do as they please without significant uproar. The moaners will always moan about every and all protests, the protestors will campaign for most issues and try to raise awareness and the government will always so very little in terms of change because they aren’t pressed by the majority for long enough.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #786
So you're getting pissed off at the totally imaginary call for the name of a road where you don't live to be renamed if another road where you don't live gets changed, which isn't certain, but you read they're thinking about it?
Really?
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In reply to Post #783
It is a shame and totally avoidable.
My mate's mum and dad used to run the Balaclava Arms pub in Bermondsey no doubt someone who's seen what's going on in Ealing will want it renamed the Guru Arms and also the streets and school around it called Balaclava and Alma renamed.
Sorry but even my most tolerant missus is getting fed up now.
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In reply to Post #782
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #781
You'd better get some ear plugs, brexit will make it almost impossible for people to bugger off if they don't like it in the UK.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #782
i was being flippant tinhead. maybe too subtle ...
it's a shame joe average is getting fed up with BLM, but I guess it's easier for some to switch off from it and it doesn't help when the message is hijacked by idiots or misunderstood by people too lazy to bother finding out what is really going on - like our Foreign Secretary for example
I'm glad there is still momentum there and that some positive changes are starting to happen. Good to see everyone concerned at Burnley FC condemning the idiots from last night.
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In reply to Post #778
What friend is that Mal?
I think what Braders was really saying is if it's really that bad and awful here then go somewhere else. Not wanting something better as we all want that.
For all it's faults this country is not that bad but the way some people go on you'd think they'd have a better chance claiming asylum elsewhere.
Edit
Typed before I saw his reply
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In reply to Post #778
People have been coming here for years for a better life.It works for some and some end up going home.Im just sick of hearing oh it's **** here,there must be a better life out there.Its simple **** off and find it or make the most of what you have got
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This was on the news tonight along with the council leader who's seriously considering it.
LINK
To be honest I'm getting a bit fed up with it all and I'm starting to lose interest in BLM as IMO it's turning from a worthwhile cause into a joke.
I asked my Joe Average friends who are a bigger representation than the this small captive audience on this thread and they are starting to feel the same.
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In reply to Post #773
Fair enough on your opinion.
I would like to see how the country would be democratic if all the people who voted for the losing political parties left the country post election, along with all opposing members of those political parties. Wouldn’t that just make it a singular political party and thus a false democracy?
Be interesting to see like I said. Country would crumble I guess.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #777
..... democracy....?
couldn't resist. hope it doesn't start any argument.
Braders - that whole 'if you want something better then you can go somewhere else idea - is that ok both ways? can people who want something better than where they live go here as it's 'somewhere else'? Asking for a friend....
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In reply to Post #773
What are we the best in the world at ?
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Me and some of the lads had this very discussion at work today , i kept quiet and let them get on with it , the conclusion was New Zealand , and if i could have my time again i would be off like a shot !
When i told them about the pension rates and wages quality of life and lack of corruption , they didn't believe me until they searched it for themselves !
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #773
We’re one of the most tolerant countries, but best... I don’t know about that.
The thing stopping me leaving is the fact the few countries I’d like to live are difficult to get into for a simpleton or have terrible healthcare, I’d leave in heartbeat given the chance of better weather and less ****s though.
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In reply to Post #773
Fair enough
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In reply to Post #772
Britain is the best country in the world,I'm proud to be British.If anyone living here is not happy with how things are run or our history,there is nothing stopping them leaving.Thats not a dig at you,it's just simply how I feel about it
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In reply to Post #771
Last word. I never edited the post for the 3rd time But technically when you drop a bomb on innocent people that makes you a murderer
Not my fault ocelot is getting so triggered over someone not licking the ar*e of Britain 24/7
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In reply to Post #770
Last word from me. The snake gets all precious over every post. Never said a thing about me questioning why he called British forces murderers.
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In reply to Post #761
About time they got a room
Cmon lads bake off is on
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In reply to Post #768
Well clearly you don’t considering ive never edited that post
Like I said. You misread it and it triggered you clearly. That’s your fault not mine. I’ve already told you to ask the mods to prove that if it’s triggering you that badly and you’ll find that I’ve not edited that post. That’s your prerogative though not mine as I know my own actions.
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In reply to Post #767
I don't need to you and me know the truth and that'll do for me snake.
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In reply to Post #765
Never edited it as I said. You must have read it wrong and got triggered.
Edit - ask a mod for the edit log if you want.
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In reply to Post #765
Snake...because I acknowledge all sides of history not just one side like you
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In reply to Post #764
Look at my post above it snake
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In reply to Post #762
I’ve never edited that post
You’re right though. Both murder.
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In reply to Post #760
Never said that’s all there is, but it’s just as important as the positive stuff. Otherwise you get a skewed view of history and unbalanced opinions of things.
The Germans teach their kids about nazi Germany, yet we don’t teach our children about the British empire
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In reply to Post #761
In reply to Post #647
"Unpopular statement coming, I might need your tinhat blankalot!
Libyan national kills 3 in reading...UK forces murder thousands of innocent civilians in Libya 2011 by firing missiles"
It was the MURDER part that the clueless snake has since edited that needed putting straight. Brought you into then
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In reply to Post #760
'er don't get me involved
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In reply to Post #759
He's ok at heart , a bit conflicted for some reason, just wants teachers to teach the negative side of British history as that's all there is ...
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In reply to Post #757
You two still at it, has it got to the point where neither of you want to back down and both want the last word ?
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Took the knee today........Didnt want to but............
was much easier to steady my rifle whilst shooting a rabbit at 150yrds..........
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In reply to Post #756
What gangster portrayal? Honestly what you’ve got is a problem with me saying Britain has gone to war and people have died for little to no cause and based on little to false evidence. It’s not an entire country it’s the leaders that made those choices...as you clearly stated in an earlier post. It’s quite clear you’re extremely patriotic and take any negative comments about British conduct as a personal attack on you and your country and in turn it to some extreme misinterpretation, I.e. ‘anti British gangster portrayal’ when all I merely stated was that democracy that has been installed in the Middle East (and other places) isn’t actually that democratic due to the people that have been in power. And that it’s a reason terrorist attacks occur in this country. Both facts.
It’s a British territory so they went to get it back. Plain and simple. Not for democractic reasons. To reclaim what was taken.
I know all the reasons behind why Britain hasn’t gone to install democracy in those countries. But it proves my point that you are saying it is Britain’s place in the world to install democracy where there isn’t democracy. Yet you clearly know it’s not that simple is it and it’s about doing it where suits them best, mainly for financial or positional reasons. Because if you truly had the simplistic view that ‘Britain is great and we must spread democracy to places that haven’t got it’ then there would be nothing stopping them spreading it everywhere.
Again, why do you feel that Britain is the worlds police and saviour? Is it your patriotism or is there another reason behind it? It’s a genuine question, one which you eluded already a number of times.
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In reply to Post #754
There you go again with your anti British gangster portrayal again. It's a British overseas territory ffs. What's your problem? Read and learn, empty vessels and all that...
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In reply to Post #743
1-The UAE and Jordan are and have always been allies in the region. Bigger fish to fry elsewhere but we keep chipping away.
2-Cuba is Uncle Sam's neck of the woods an ally of ours. That'll take care of itself shortly.
3-Saudi and Qatar have had the world by the plums for decades with oil. The long term view was they were handy allies. As you'll know both have problems with Wahhabi extremists helping fund and destabilize the middle east. MBS is dealing with this(locking sympathetic donors up in hotels etc) alongside a modernisation program. They are also very handy regards intelligence and dealing with ISIS recently. Which is why they're being cut some slack. Also being deadly enemies of the Shia works for us. Again one for the long haul.
4-China, North Korea and Vietnam. You really need me for that? You'd have to be pretty stupid to not understand why we wouldn't go to war unless as a last resort. The pressure for human rights, getting them involved in world monetary systems and building a coalition of democracies against them is the way. Like the 50 years it took to defeat the Soviet Union. That's what's happening but a smart lad like you would already know that.
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In reply to Post #753
For it to remain a British sovereign state is what you mean. If it had been a non-sovereign state and Argentina took it over would we have gone? Answer is no. Nout to do with democracy, everything to do with keeping British influence overseas. Democracy being a by-product of that. Simple enough for even your tiny mind to understand.
Again, won’t answer the questions because you’ve got no answers for them because you know I’m right
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In reply to Post #751
Would we have gone if the population didn't want to remain a British overseas territory? No is the answer. Democracy allows the population to decide who governs them. They democratically on several occasions have rejected changing the status quo.
So for dummies: To allow the population of the Falklands to democratically decide their future we had to kick the undemocratic military junta out. Simple even for you.
Post 743
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In reply to Post #750
Right there
I said that earlier, straight down the middle might be just about alright
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In reply to Post #749
Are you blind? #743 I put them very simply to you You really are stupid.
Reclaim the islands as British. The purpose of going there. Not to export democracy like you stated before. If it was to reinstate democracy solely then that would concede the islands are Argentinian and the entirety of Argentina would have been invaded. But it wasn’t. Your spin is worse than the MSM
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In reply to Post #746
We’ve got a balanced society already - the extreme left balancing out the extreme right.
A more moderate one might be nice
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In reply to Post #748
Went to reinstate democracy in the islands.
You're flapping around in turmoil so much I've no idea which one of your daft questions and in what context you'd like an answer
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In reply to Post #747
Went to reclaim the land deemed British under sovereignty. Not to export democracy. Don’t be obtuse.
Honestly so far up yourself you can’t answer my question which clearly makes you look like a 🤡🤡
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In reply to Post #743
A people's right to choose who governs them is not part of democracy then? Dear oh dear. Do you think the people of The Falklands would have been given that right to choose under an Argentinian military junta
Like you've said you fail to see alot. The rest will follow eventually or we'll follow them, it's inevitable. That's the long game of ideologies....
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In reply to Post #744
Balanced society sounds good to me. I think we have to look at where we are though too. I believe we are a long way ahead of the USA where all this stemmed from. They have a massive, what I would call crisis to deal with, there simply are not enough jobs for starters to give everybody the American dream
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #737
'Why is it so bloody hard for so many to admit that ethnic minorities of various shades have got the sh1tty end of the stick for years, and if the balance moves a little bit towards equality because of BLM, then that's a good thing?'
yeah - I wonder
perhaps because a more balanced society doesn't appeal so much to some? or maybe just plain denial? ignorance? the luxury of not having to give a sh*t?
answers on a postcard ...
Saw this today - not entirely a surprise is it?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11927897/burnley-white-lives-matter-man-city/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly
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In reply to Post #740
Falklands was to do with exporting democracy was it? Jesus Christ And I need to think
Yes I know corruption isn’t the fault of democracy. It is the fault of those that that are installed in it. But surely if you export democracy you ensure it runs properly otherwise more issues occur and you haven’t really made a benefit overall have you.
I’m not quite sure how your brain is wired up...but it’s clearly wrong as you can’t understand anything remotely obvious can you. When did I say I don’t like democracy??
I’m still failing to see why you think that Britain is the worlds saviour. As you said yourself they have FORCED by NATO to go in to Afghanistan, so they didn’t want to re-establish democracy there off their own backs. Neither did they in Iraq or even Libya. Just closely following the US as allies that owe them big time for WW2.
Democracy benefits EVERY country in the world. So why do you think it’s Britain’s job and no one else’s?
Still awaiting an answer as to why Britain hasn’t and won’t go and install democracy to China, North Korea, Cuba, Saudi, Qatar, Jordan, Vietnam, UAE, etc.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #738
Nutter first and foremost I'd imagine. But obvs I know nothing about it apart from what I've read. I'd very much doubt it was a racial 'anti-white' attack though.
Edit: I'm sure IS have killed more Muslims than any other religious group.
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In reply to Post #739
Lost me there. Is there not an element of racist hate with IS and our western civilisation and white people?
He was on the M15 watch list so hardly somebody who is just mentally ill!
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In reply to Post #735
Corruption isn't the fault of democracy you fool ffs.
Only places of financial interest? Again your determination to portray Britain in a gangster light is very telling. What money was there in the Balkans in the 90's, Serria Leone in the 90's, the Falklands in the 80's etc? All cost British lives.
It's Britain's place because of the benefits of democracy I've explained to you countless times. Why do you dislike the benefits but the countries we've exported democracy to keep it? Think for a while before responding this time and do yourself a favour
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In reply to Post #738
Tell you what is a racist attack... the amount of people who are labelling him as black in order to incite racial hatred.
It’s been reported he was on the deradicalisation programme. All signs point to terrorism thus making it a much more complex motivation than race, or religion.
Should probably move it back on topic though,
Let’s talk about the 6 black men found hanging by noose in public places in the last week or so, all being put down to suicide with no further investigation even though where they were found they couldn’t have done it themselves...along with the noose found in the only black nascar driver’s garage. And other nooses hanging in and around predominantly black frequented areas or businesses. Looks like the KKK has arisen in the states.
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In reply to Post #737
I've no idea what the families of the three people murdered by a nutter at the weekend think, but I'm damn sure there will be no shortage of racist, ignorant 'statue defenders' who will be foaming at the mouth with outrage on their behalf, but who wouldn't have given a toss if they'd been murdered by a white bloke.
We don’t know if it’s a racist attack or not yet. The press are speculating he has mental issues, no surprise to me. We might find out it is racially motivated. The police have said it is a terror attack so if it is fuelled by say IS would you class that a racially motivated or religious or he is just a plain nut job?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #733
Jesus, not another poor oppressed retired well off Englishman.
Why is it so bloody hard for so many to admit that ethnic minorities of various shades have got the sh1tty end of the stick for years, and if the balance moves a little bit towards equality because of BLM, then that's a good thing?
Indians being racist to blacks, Chinese being racist towards Pakistanis etc etc etc ... guess what ... it's all wrong.
I've no idea what the families of the three people murdered by a nutter at the weekend think, but I'm damn sure there will be no shortage of racist, ignorant 'statue defenders' who will be foaming at the mouth with outrage on their behalf, but who wouldn't have given a toss if they'd been murdered by a white bloke.
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In reply to Post #733
By the way, some of my managers are black, and nice people and are good at their jobs. My accountants are Indian, and some jews, my solicitors are south african, and many factory staff are asian, indian, black and eastern european. I, or rather the managers give everybody a chance and the same treatment no matter what colour or race. Yet they cannot get on for any period of tine.
A smaller company we have, is just white people, that’s not by choice it’s in an area of little or no racial minority.
Another assembly factory is all Pakistanis, never had an issue there either. So there is some merit in the don’t mix, and there’ll be no problem theory.
I like a bit of honest experience
Similar situations in a couple places I have worked. They set people on to do a job, race does not even get a look in, or does not for me, or I will rephrase that, it does at a couple of company's where I work because they like to show their diversity and they have selected people that I would not based on this (skills and experience) it’s skill based and how they present themselves for me. As you mention, break times, groups of Polish, groups of Asians, groups of blacks. Always something going off, always falling out, mainly over pathetic stuff too!
It takes effort from ALL sides and that’s why it will never go away sadly
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In reply to Post #734
And I answered your question as none. But the democracy is failing due to corruption in the democracy. So it isn’t really a democracy is it. I’m not sure what process happens in your brain that means you can’t understand the most simple of things.
I still don’t get why you feel it is Britain’s role to make the world a democratic place but only go to places that have financial interest. Instead of ignoring what people say to you maybe try answering them. So I’ll ask it so you can understand it;
Why do you think it is Britain’s place in the world to spread democracy?
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In reply to Post #728
Your determination to portray Britain's history of growing democracies in a negative light means you and reason are complete strangers. Like I've said countless times how many have ditched the ideology you for some obvious personal reason dislike?
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In reply to Post #729
So to me, your comment and many others i’ve heard suggests, white people should take their punishment yet not voice their thoughts.
This knee thing is a confusion to me, Floyd died mainly by being knelt on’ so doing the knee seems like a piss take to me but, then again none of much makes sense to me now. The white lives matter banner meant nothing to me as i know all lives matter. What about the families of the three white people murdered by a non white at the weekend’ wonder what they’d say about the banner, will they now organise a few protests and damage a few statues.
Floyd didn’t deserve to die in the way he did’ i’ve said this earlier in the thread. Having now read up a lot on his past’ i can’t help thinking the world is a better place without his sort, regardless of colour.
When his previous victims read all the attention his death created, i wonder honestly how they feel.
I have a lot of experience of racism in the work place, and it has cost me, so racism is not good for me financially, and probably the rest of the world for various reasons. Most of the racist acts and ironically claim i’ve witnessed have been non white people.
It will never end, never because before man interfered, we were not designed to all live together, that’s why we are all different colours, different cultures and different religions. We are all different colours for a reason.
The only countries that trully have no racism, are where there are no mixing of race or colour, that sort of is the final word, if there’s only one race, there’s no racism, simple.
I don’t know how correct what i’ve written here is’ it’s based mainly on what i’ve read and seen in my businesses.
I have now heard on the radio, at least six black men say the same. By the way, some of my managers are black, and nice people and are good at their jobs. My accountants are Indian, and some jews, my solicitors are south african, and many factory staff are asian, indian, black and eastern european. I, or rather the managers give everybody a chance and the same treatment no matter what colour or race. Yet they cannot get on for any period of tine.
A smaller company we have, is just white people, that’s not by choice it’s in an area of little or no racial minority.
Another assembly factory is all Pakistanis, never had an issue there either. So there is some merit in the don’t mix, and there’ll be no problem theory.
I am actually fed up with it from both sides, i want to enjoy retirement but it’s hard with all this going on. Why can’t people be happy to be alive, and make the most of things.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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I know the thread has gone off topic a bit over the last couple of days - all in the name of discussion. fair enough.
however, back a bit closer to the original set of discussions - Netflix are showing Ava Duvernay's documentary '13th' which I mentioned a while back. It's also available to watch for free on YouTube here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8
I found it really interesting. some staggering facts / figures. Some stuff that will may surprise. Some stuff that some will take issue with. Some stuff that will confirm things for others. A really good documentary.
Peace and love all
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #729
's
wonder who they got to spell it for them...
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In reply to Post #729
Same idiots that were “protecting statues” the other weekend whilst singing football chants and downing pints.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Sad to see that there are enough idiots in Burnley to fund a 'white lives matter' banner which was towed behind a plane over the stadium before the match with Man City.
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In reply to Post #727
You literally have got nothing to say because you can’t argue with reason
Like I said. Iraq and Afghanistan democracies that you’re so proud of aren’t functioning properly so
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The more functioning democracies in the modern world the less war, terrorism and refugees. Guaranteed.
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In reply to Post #724
I know you think you're smarter than your narrow posts suggest you are.
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In reply to Post #720
It's got Jack **** to do with where someone was born when they commit an act of war. It's where the act is allowed to be planned and executed. Wakey wakey
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In reply to Post #722
It’s also one of the worlds most corrupt political systems. So it isn’t a democracy is it. Or at best it’s a very bad example of democracy.
Like I said you’re just ignoring the bulk of what I’m saying because you know I’m right.
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In reply to Post #720
I never said YOU elect the right people in a democracy
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In reply to Post #721
It's got an elected government an armed forces the police a healthcare system and girls can go to school. Hard won.
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In reply to Post #719
In the capacity as to how democracy has failed there. Not talking about reasons for being there, although it was to dismantle al-qaeda who were based there. Subsequently leading to the Taliban asking for definitive proof it was al-Queda and not getting any so denied to extradite bin laden. Kicking off the supposed “must” of removing them from power in Afghanistan as they were claimed to be working with and protecting al-Qaeda thus being part of the threat to global security.
Regardless, your only come back is about a NATO article 5 invoking which means you either totally ignored the rest of what I said or you haven’t got a way to argue it so haven’t bothered.
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In reply to Post #719
You need to do some reading , maybe look up the Iranian democracy , overthrown by an America coup 1953 , i cant believe people still believe in America as the worlds police force ! it's embarrassing , America invading Afghanistan after 9/11 , why not Saudi Arabia where nearly all of the 9/11 bombers come from , come on wake up !
Wars to sustain an empire !
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In reply to Post #715
You keep banging on about Afghanistan, don't forget it was NATO clause 5 action. Like it or not we had to go in. Once in we've tried to support a democracy in an exceptional part of the world.
Edit: You've come up with daft questions before, why would you want to cause a Nuclear war?
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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We should set up a secret task force to execute on sight any adult wearing a tracksuit that isn’t running and those carrying a man bag. Prisoners get a pack of seeds, a tent and a corner of a remote Scottish island; thrive or die, develop the land prisons are on. A&E admissions due to drink get euthanised and sent to landfill. Make class A drugs legal and free with 2l syringes. Fathers not paying child support neutered. Unemployed people with dogs they can’t feed are canned and fed to said dog. Those on benefits are given a dynamo exercise bike and must generate a daily quota of electricity for the national grid or be executed along with the tracksuit ****s. Controversial, but it’ll save a few bob; the man bag mob disappearing is just a hidden sweetener I slipped in
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In reply to Post #716
Interesting point that. If that’s the case then, don’t ever come moaning they have a crap life
Edit for your edit.
I used that as an example. Accept what you get or do something about it. Choices, there are lots in this free country of ours, if you want to take them of course. If you don’t, accept what you get
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #713
That some people take more out of society than they put in, while having a pretty crap life? Yep, not worth worrying about as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't swap places with them.
Tax dodgers who get away with millions ... Now they're worth getting upset about.
Scozza, you do come across as disproportionately frustrated by ex goat herds who are unwilling to retrain, but perhaps you weren't moaning.
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In reply to Post #711
Again like I said Afghanistan is one of the most corrupt political systems in the world since we “exported democracy” to them. Iraq one of the most politically unstable since we “exported democracy” to them. Why is that something to be proud of? Why is going to Libya something to be proud of when it was found that it was all based on lies...again...like Iraq. If you find pride in those things then that’s up to you but I’d have thought it would be more of a proud thing to have established a working, actually democratic democracy, not a corrupt one. Then again as I’ve already said, the democracy in Britain isn’t even democratic so can’t blame them if we exported this system to them. Probably taught them how to be corrupt too.
Looking at ex soviet countries the population that have lived under both soviet and democratic rule will tell you that when it was soviet at least they had something. Now they have nothing because once again it’s corrupt to the eyeballs. But I guess we were at the forefront of making it like that for those countries too.
If Britain is “at the forefront of exporting democracy” then why haven’t they to places like China and North Korea? That’s what I want to know because as you think that Britain is the worlds saviour why haven’t they gone and saved those people?
I’ll make the point, in which you seem to be mistaken and hung up on, I’m not against democracy as a way to govern an country. I just don’t see how murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people to install democracy in a country is something to be proud of.
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In reply to Post #712
No moaning for me Jon. It’s a thread for public discussions. If I didn’t want to comment I wouldn’t
People have their views, mine are below
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In reply to Post #712
When you say we shouldn't moan about are you saying we should just accept it without question?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #710
It's always been like that, always will be. Chances are that brexit will mean fewer EU folk picking your sprouts and more people from other countries who will want the right to come to the Uk in exchange for some trade deal.
No point moaning about it. Some people take the piss, others are a bit daft. Pay your taxes and move on... Otherwise you just get stuck in a cycle of who's more worthy of your anger. Is it the workshy dole scrounger on a couple of hundred quid or the bloke costing the system thousands for treatment for cancer caused by smoking? How about those in car crashes who were speeding? Fatties, drinkers, people who never exercise?
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In reply to Post #703
We've established that democracies very rarely go to war with each other, an extremely good thing. Other major competing ideologies. Monarchy, aristocracy and oligarchy have generally be confined to the rubbish bin of history. Fascism had a go and was smashed by democracies and communist countries. Russian Communism was confronted by democracies over the long term and the Soviet Union collapsed. Over half the world's population live under democratic institutions, again a very good thing. All of the ideologies mentioned above fought against democracy and failed. Britain has always been at the forefront of conflicts with competing ideologies due to our historical position in the world, exporting democracy I'd say, forcing onto you say.
Like I say how many democracies have gone back to the other options?
That's something to be proud of I'd say.
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In reply to Post #709
No, I’m saying there are foreign workers in the U.K.doing the jobs that people in the U.K. don’t want to, English, foreigners, you name it
What do you think about U-turn number 318 last week giving poor kids food during the summer?
Saw it in the news, didn’t think much about it, what do you want me to say Jon, it’s wrong or right?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #708
So you're saying there are foreign workers in the UK because other foreigners can't be bothered to do anything because they get everything free?
What do you think about U-turn number 318 last week giving poor kids food during the summer?
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In reply to Post #706
I say it how I see it Bob, it’s a frustrating situation.
It all goes back to social status for me and the will to get of their arses and do something other than complain, blame others and the “system” nothing comes on plate, you have to fight a little along the way. That’s if you REALLY want it of course
We are at an advantage since we get a free education in this country for starters, if you want to participate that is! and that is If! And this is a major problem for me. The if!
Wonder how many of these complainers got on at school. Some may not have a natural talent for it but we all can have a will and an urge to want a job but more importantly be able to hold a job down through presenting ourselves in a decent manner and communicating well with others helps for starters. There’s a problem for you for starters, attitudes
And while ever qualifications dictate jobs, which dictates the salaries which in turn dictates your livelihood don’t expect **** all unless you participate and try your best. Otherwise, you get what you get, wrong or right, that’s the reality
So mr X. You used to be a goat herder, what qualifications have you got, ur, mmmm, none. OK, you could look at a hands on roles such as a waiter, a cleaner or a cabbage picker etc? **** that I can sit around on my arse all day
How about trying to improve your education, language or some training to make you more employable. **** that, a cant be bovered
And that’s why there are foreign workers in this country doing their jobs, the jobs that they do not want
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In reply to Post #705
I donate enough in tax as it is, like most, and I will be totally honest, I would happily donate more if i knew it was going to the right causes, the people that are genuinely unfortunate due to their personal circumstances and they cannot work, not a problem. I wouldn’t pay **** all for another bunch of spongers though
What happens when the balance changes in the future, and it will, manufacturing has gone down the pan, what’s next, there will be more unemployed unfortunately and the number of spongers is going up. It will become an unsustainable situation that’s what will happen so they had better act now before we are paying 50% tax. BLM, we want houses and jobs. Good luck, won’t we all!
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In reply to Post #704
I have not got a problem if they are genuine,
I got to say Scoz I agree with much of what you say and I reckon there's quite a few others on this forum that would say something similar but they tend not to come on this thread and prefer to just let the ones that do come on here argue amongst themselves.
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In reply to Post #704
We already spend trillions destroying their countries so why not spend some more trillions giving them a life back.
But seriously people should be made to work unless they have paid their taxes and have a genuine reason to be on unemployment. My mums a retired teacher and some of the kids she taught were from dole dosser families. Their parents had drilled the ambition of getting a free house and everything on the taxpayer by getting pregnant at 15-16 years old. No aspirations to do anything with themselves but that. Best to look at home rather than complain about refugees tbh. At least they go through hell to try and get a better life courtesy of the UK taxpayer. Not when their is BRITISH nationals who have a sole intent to be a dole dosser for life. They know all the legalities and loop holes to get the maximum of everything.
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In reply to Post #699
Wrong side of bed, no. You just annoy me with some of your comments
What % are Syrians that are over here?
I would like to know the percentage intake over the last few years!
If you watched the documentary I did there is a massive percentage of Africans, paying an absolute premium to the human traffickers to get here, and Europe, nothing to do with a genuine cause. Have you watched the news, did you see what was happening at the channel tunnel and still is. My brother in law comes through there regular, complete mess. I wouldn’t want that rabble living down the road from me, you can see how they perform, horrible people some of them!
I have not got a problem if they are genuine, like I have said below, proving they make a contribution to this country, otherwise, if they do not, they are nothing more than dead wood who are another drain on our resources and a kick in the bollox for everybody who goes to work, gives it their all and help to make this country tick over with their tax deductions
And before you say anything. Yes, if they are genuine and over here then we should do our best to integrate them into our society. What do you think we are going to do, spend trillions investing in everyone that enters the country!
I think you are a lot naive at times Mal, not just a bit
Edit, forgot to mention. I agree, there are a lot of spongers over here and I wish they would bring a policy out to deal with them. I.e, if they are capable of working, let’s get them working to earn their giros. This way, all those banging on about immigrants taking there jobs would not have a leg to stand on because there wouldn’t be any jobs at their pay grade for the immigrants, or shall we say foreign workers. The giro people would be doing them. That would give Tommy Robinson and his bunch of muppets something to think about
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In reply to Post #701
Not my fault you have no comeback for anything I say apart from “you don’t understand what democracy means”
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In reply to Post #698
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In reply to Post #694
I hope you're being deliberately obtuse rather than how you appear
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In reply to Post #699
The Jeremy Kyle clan is a major problem they leach from the country and we need to sort that out but we can't because they play the system but changes to the system are met by the feather duster brigade.
We might be able to accommodate the real needy a bit better if we could.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #696
wrong side of bed again?
you're talking sh*te of course.
a small percentage are victims? utter sh*te. If you take Syria for example - 12m civilians affected by a 10 year civil war. 5.6m refugees outside of the country. 6m displaced still within Syria. Half of those affected are children. Most head to Turkey - some head to Iraq (how god awful does your world need to be that Iraq is seen as a safer option for your children?). And that's just an example from one country.
Maybe watch a documentary that shows what's really going on rather than some Scandinavians complaining.
As for me taking my feather duster over there to help.... well, like I said, maybe you got out the wrong side of bed cause that's just silly isn't it?
With regard to 'contribute or get out' - where are you planning to send all the lazy Jeremy Kyle clan from the UK? Overweight, chain smoking, lager swilling parasites draining our NHS on a daily basis with their lung cancer, heart disease and high blood pressure....
edit - Jon,
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #696
Has your account been hacked by Katie Hopkins?
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In reply to Post #696
Blame the government for allowing it basically. Not the fault of the people trying to maximise what they can get for minimum output. Isn’t that how most people in the world work? If someone offered to pay your wage but you never had to go to work would you take it?
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In reply to Post #686
Stop buttering it up. A small percentage are no doubt victims. Look all these what you see on the news they have flooded Europe, even the Scandinavian nations, predominantly men as well (watched a couple of documentaries on the subject). We can’t sustain them. Put your feather duster away. If you want to help, go over there and help them
Contribute or out is my take on it, it’s as simple as that. If they come over hear they need to learn how to speak our language so they can communicate and get a job to contribute to our society. If they can’t then it’s time to go home. I am sick to the back teeth of people trying to milk this country dry. The NHS is in it knees ffs. You can thank all the scrounging ****s when we are paying for our medical treatment too
And as for my comment on war. Nodbody wants to go to war do they ffs. If we HAVE to it would be a completely different story because the majority of our Asian friends won’t be attending because it will be against there religion ffs. Country first. If you want to be part of it, be prepared to be part of it and that is totally fine with me, land of opportunities. Do whatever you like as long as it’s legal. If you don’t, then **** off now is my advise and stance
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In reply to Post #689
Iraq as of 2018 was the 11th most politically unstable country in the world and Afghanistan is one of the most politically corrupt countries in the world. Democracy installed again...they’ve been democratic countries before until certain leaders stopped doing things democratically... but the democracy isn’t really working is it.
Considering the “reasons” for being in those countries was to remove al-Qaeda (Afghanistan) post 9/11...why was democracy installed? Iraq was to remove Saddam because of WMD (which never existed)...why did democracy need “installing” when it already existed, it was just him that stopped it being used. Libya the same... government report found there was no evidence Gaddafi was planning anything he was accused of
China has much less democracy than these countries but we don’t invade them... so if you think Britain is some world saviour spreading democracy you’re sorely mistaken.
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In reply to Post #689
Still making no sense. What do we as Britain “win” as you put it? Still haven’t won any war in the Middle East. Because troops are still there. The democracy that has been installed hasn’t really worked how it should do.
What I said wasn’t to be proud of is invading countries on unsound evidence which is then proven to be untrue by government instigated reports. I bet you think the empire was doing the people in those countries a favour too.
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In reply to Post #692
That's forums for ya!
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #691
Gotcha.
You're talking about real refugees rather than the swarthy looking ne'er-do-wells, but I thought you meant terrorists rather than real refugees
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In reply to Post #690
If I remember rightly approx. 50% of asylum seekers get entry of the UK the rest are judged not to be and so we shouldn't just let them in because they made the journey or in my words 'give them the benefit of doubt'
That's the point I'm trying to make
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #687
'Benefit of the doubt'?
What doubt?
Might be an idea to view them as people who have gotten off their arses to an extent almost unimaginable to the British in order to make a better life for themselves and their families, and acknowledge their determination and courage rather than immediately view them with suspicion ... and doubt.
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In reply to Post #681
This might come as a shock to you but wars between democracies are very rare. You say Britain leaving democracy as a legacy is "nothing to be proud of". How many of those countries have ditched it under self rule? Like I've said best leave it to those that understand it.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #687
better than assuming the very worst of everyone though eh?
Have a good day man
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In reply to Post #686
I get that to an extent Mal but I think you are a bit naïve if you want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #684
No scozza. Not that simple at all.
Are you fighting because you believe in something or because your prime minister lied to you? It's never simple.
And someone seeking asylum is not the same as a lazy git who did feck all at school and just wants to watch daytime tv all day. A 'better life' is relative. Better than living in the rubble that used to be your family home with no water or electricity because the good old US / UK troops bombed the country you live in? Or because they preach about democracy and human rights while allowing millions of people to be displaced in their own country?
Asylum seekers are not terrorists. Take a look at the camps they find themselves in. Take a look at what they are fleeing from ffs. The huge majority of these people have had their lives obliterated. They didn't see good old England on TVs and think 'I know, I'll get the kids, leave everything I've ever owned and people I love, and set off walking to see if I can get a council house'.
It's a humanitarian disgrace and those countries that can help, SHOULD help. It's basic human kindness. Now that is simple.
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In reply to Post #684
I think that statement “you live in this country so you should be prepared to fight for it” only really applies if the country is under threat or being invaded. Personally I feel sorry for the dead servicemen that have fought in the Middle East. They aren’t protecting this country. It’s ironic though isn’t it that the same statement is used for those out troops are fighting against yet we are saying “how can they fight against us, we just want what we think is best for them”.... they are protecting their country from actual invasion. Not doing the invading.
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In reply to Post #653
but just for balance sake, asylum seeker does not equal terrorist
Does this not go back to what we have talked about already?
They want to come into this country or others for a better life. The problem is, a lot have no education or the relevant skills to make a contribution so as well as the lazy white folks (pardon the racist pun) there are then these. If they can’t make a contribution then there is absolutely no point in being here, another group sat on their areas all day looking to blame society for their problems. Vulnerable people really, very easy to condition and manipulate
Saw the banners on the news again last night. Black lives matter we need jobs and houses
So does everybody else, get of your lazy arses and do something them ffs. It does not get offered on a plate
There opportunity’s for all in good old England town. Think I might apply for Boris’s job . You have two years to learn how to speak English, our language, so you can communicate, and get a job or you are going home, we have enough spongers draining our society already, I think two years is more than enough
Tell you what they should bring in. National service for all. If we were to go to war there would be a massive percentage rioting because they did not want to, against their believes or religion. Well, for me, you live in this country so you should be prepared to fight for it, simple really ain’t it
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Give em democracy , , i thought that had been debunked a 100 times over now , we are suffering the blowback of a failed economic strategy which was influenced heavily by the largest lobby group in the world , who can not be named , or you will be called racist !
Democracy , come on ,
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In reply to Post #677
Point 1 I just meant that if someone bombs the granny out your country you’re more likely to go there to get a new life because you probably think they owe you it and you know they’ll likely accept you and give you a fair bit. Revenge may be one reason but I meant it as “take away my life then you can give me a new one” type thing. Reparations if you want to call it that.
Points 2&3. That is a solution to an issue but I was just talking about some of the reasons they bypass other countries to come here. We have many EEs here earning money and looking for a better life, why would refugees settle in the countries they are leaving to come here?
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In reply to Post #680
Win what?
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In reply to Post #663
You pick and choose your fights in a big world of competing ideologies to eventually win.
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In reply to Post #662
The universal suffrage type. You?
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In reply to Post #676
Depends on how desperate I was to flee a country. My main concern in that position would be to keep safe rather than illegally travel 1000's of miles to cherry pick the UK
Sorry but I think a good proportion are not genuine asylum seekers and could be economic migrants.
I know others may have differing views but I really must be going to bed soon.
Good night
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In reply to Post #675
I politely say don't think we're going to agree on much here.
Point 1 seems to suggest they come here for revenge. Maybe that's true but we must try to protect ourselves from such people.
Point 2 and 3 can be overcome by toughening our welfare systems so only the genuinely needy get benefits and those who are not genuine asylum seekers get nothing except refused entry. And those that are genuine asylum are treated fairly but not given preferential treatment over and above our own needy people. You may argue that doesn't happen but that's the perception of many and if true needs addressing.
Point 4. Sounds to me a country that takes pride in itself which is only natural but to be honest I hear more people saying we're **** and getting worse rather than saying we're great.
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In reply to Post #674
What if they speak better English than German or French or Greek or Italian? What if they have familial ties here that would enable them to better carve out a new life for themselves as they escape whatever horrors they have been forced to leave?
If I had to leave here I’d be trying to go somewhere I’d feel most comfortable I’d be able to rebuild and contribute, wouldn’t you?
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In reply to Post #674
Got to remember that 1. They see Britain as part of the reason they are seeking asylum so they’ll come here to get back that which was destroyed by us 2. Half the countries they passed through end up in Britain looking for a better quality of life and earning potential, 3. They see what refugees get here compared to other countries and 4. British people make the rod for their own back claiming “we are the greatest country in the world”... well if you don’t have anything anymore, where are you going go start a new life... the “greatest country in the world” seems a logical option.
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In reply to Post #672
Yes but risking life and limb to make the crossing to here can't be right when they've travelled through umpteen safe countries is the view of many.
In Reoly to #673
No copy and paste.
Well that's ****ed it for a few on here hasn't it
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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Well....
There are lots of similar things being said and some interesting points tonight.
Some things to ponder maybe....
Our repeated bombing and support of civil wars within other countries adds to the numbers of those seeking asylum which then becomes a 'problem' for some. Closing our borders to those who need asylum as a result of our direct / indirect action, or our turning a blind eye / inaction is just plain ****ty.
Our interventions cited as fighting for democracy are - it would seem - carefully chosen depending on oil reserves, business contracts for infrastructure rebuilds and the supported appointment of sympathetic new regimes.
We have saved some people from dictatorship
But not always picked up our mess after ourselves
Democracy is easily exploited by those in power.
2000 words on the topic of your choice. No copy and paste. On my desk first thing Friday please.
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In reply to Post #671
So under international law we are not neighbours of troubled countries so not obliged to take asylum seekers
There is no requirement under the UN Refugee Convention (the applicable law) for those seeking refuge to claim asylum in the first safe country they enter.
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In reply to Post #669
Freedom of movement means no border checks?
Anyway the point I was trying to make is I'm all for a share of genuine asylum seekers if it's fair.
I think I see what Gregskii is trying to get at this time. Some countries try to make changes and make mistakes and some countries do **** all. There's a saying do **** all and you'll never do anything wrong. TBH I'd prefer ii if we were one of the countries but we are not. So under international law we are not neighbours of troubled countries so not obliged to take asylum seekers but as I say I'm happy for us to take a fair share.
The world is not fair. I'm sure most of us want it to be but our differing views mean we may not be able to agree what is fair.
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In reply to Post #667
I see what you mean now.
Problem with all our political parties is that they'd rather try to score points off each other rather than actually do what's best. Much of the public already sees this and many of the rest are beginning to see it as well. A good election strategy could be to rise above the point scoring and personal attacks. Politics is just as much to do with personalities nowadays, come across as the good guy who doesn't bitch and you may be onto a winner?
PS
Maybe that's more hopeful thinking than reality
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #665
That's not 'freedom of movement', it's 'lack of border checks between some EU states'. Two very different things.
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In reply to Post #665
I’ve always believed that the countries which do the damage should take the refugees. Out of the EU there is no obligation to house them. EU countries have taken plenty of refugees, especially Syrians. Germany, France, etc. They should be shipped to America as it’s them doing the most damage yet they take none... great set up that is. We bomb them and you take the people that survive.
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In reply to Post #666
It was more general than brexit. Lib Dem student fees promises, etc. But yes the suspension of parliament was still unlawful, if the government acts illegally it’s not a democracy is it.
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In reply to Post #664
The kind where you vote for things based on party manifestos only for none of it to actually be realised or the opposite happens
We voted to leave the EU but parliament stifled it so to try and get things moving and try and give the people what they voted for they tried to suspend parliament. Maybe not lawful but the people of this country weren't bothered they were so sick and tired of it many lent their votes to the Conservatives to try and break the stalemate.
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In reply to Post #660
Those seeking asylum are illegal all the way across Europe the apply for asylum here,
Yes I get that but it's the free movement that allows them to go where they want once they enter the EU illegally.
Even when we're totally out of the EU the problem will still be there so I understand leaving the EU wont cure the problem. The problem is the illegals gaining entry into the EU and going where they want.
True asylum seekers would be so desperate that they'd settle in any country that was safe.
Too late now but when we was in the EU each country should've taken a fair share of genuine asylum seekers.
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In reply to Post #662
Probably the British kind... you know where they illegally suspend parliament and then totally IGNORE parliament to push through laws which even the ruling MPs publicly condemn on national TV. The kind where you vote for things based on party manifestos only for none of it to actually be realised or the opposite happens. The kind of democracy where big businesses buy MPs and decisions that are favourable for them.
Probably that kind is what he means.
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In reply to Post #661
Like I said. If it’s the best way why haven’t we invaded China? Or North Korea? Or multiple African countries?
I’m not sure you understand democracy in its entirety tbh. Picking and choosing where to “fight for democracy” isn’t actually fighting for democracy. Especially when investigations carried out by your own government find that the decisions to “fight for democracy” were based on lies and wrong information Educate yourself on some facts and come back to me. Maybe read the report in to British actions in Libya.
Just saying I “don’t understand democracy” when you’re being asked I text questions shows you can’t answer them and have no actual factual reasoning for your opinion that Britain invading countries to spread democracy is actually a good thing.
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In reply to Post #661
Which type of democracy? Since you understand it so well and all that...
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In reply to Post #659
There's some nasty people in this world and democracy is the best way any population can choose it's destiny.
Best you leave those that understand it too it
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In 2018/19 72% of those arrested for terrorist offences were British nationals.
Bob, I think you don't understand EU freedom of movement. Those seeking asylum are illegal all the way across Europe the apply for asylum here, if they make it. They do not arrive with lovely burgundy passports. But not many do. About 95% decide to go elsewhere, the Idea that they all want to come to the Uk is cobblers.
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In reply to Post #658
As well as countless graves of innocent people... bombing your way to force democracy on countries isn’t really something to be proud of in my eyes, but if you feel it is then that’s your own choice.
I don’t think you’ve ever educated me in my entire life. Education is based on facts, your opinions aren’t that.
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In reply to Post #657
I'm not here to educate you constantly.
We've left the institutions of democracy behind whenever possible. Especially in the countries you've mentioned in the last few posts.
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In reply to Post #655
Narrow views? Explain that statement?
Because there is plenty of countries that aren’t democratic Britain hasn’t gone to fight for the people. China for one... North Korea for 2.
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In reply to Post #653
I’m just looking at motive. Why’s he done it. Why’s he been radicalised. 25yrs old he’s have been 14 when bombs were dropped in Libya. Clearly has a grudge to bear with Britain. We will never know that reason but revenge could be one of them. Or the only one.
Like you said ocelot...you reap what you sow. Had this country never bombed Libya this guy might never have carried out these murders.
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In reply to Post #652
Democracy is a bigger picture than your narrow views on history.
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In reply to Post #651
I don't get your logic. So bad people won't come here to do us harm because we aren't in the EU
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #651
Not a direct reply to you tinhead, but just for balance sake, asylum seeker does not equal terrorist.
I can see greekskii's argument. The bigger picture is one of years old conflict with all sides killing innocents in the process. Some despicable actions on all sides
The individual in this case appears to be acting alone but it has been called a terror offence because he's Libyan and was on the watch list.
There's no 'right' in this.
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In reply to Post #650
India and Africa for a start including the despicable concentration camps and mass murders... Middle East conflicts and the truth behind them including the reports that basically say most if it was based on unfounded information... teach the kids the truth.
Going to war for “democracy”... Libya was based on wrong information. The governments own report said that. WMDs never found in Iraq...Afghanistan to eliminate Al-Queda and ended up staying to ‘reconstruct’ because they blew the place to buggery...
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In reply to Post #646
I don't know the numbers but the freedom of movement allows migrants to move freely through Europe and many head to France, then then try to make the crossing to the UK claiming asylum, some of them will not be true asylum seekers and some will be bad people.
Without freedom of movement they'd have to claim asylum in the country that they land.
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In reply to Post #648
Murder?
You reap what you sow doesn't need to be on a school curriculum. It's a fact and is happening every day. What does is the reason this country does what it does outside of our shores. Democracy is something we've gone to war for many times and will do in the future. Teach that.
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In reply to Post #646
That is a very good post Jon, same as the rest of the EU, I dread to think
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In reply to Post #647
Unpopular statement coming, I might need your tinhat blankalot!
Libyan national kills 3 in reading...UK forces kill thousands of innocent civilians in Libya 2011 by firing missiles whilst trying to remove Gaddafi. This terror attack for all we know could be revenge for blowing his family to tiny little bits one day in 2011.
Not condoning or defending his actions but maybe a tiny bit of perspective needed...
we quickly forget our history of murder in other countries don’t we. (Goes back to the education thing we talked about regarding the REAL British history being taught to children doesn’t it)
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #645
I find myself in agreement
Awful prime minister and a lying git.
As for the knifeman we'll get told what suits I expect.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #644
How many terrorist attackers have entered the uk thanks to EU freedom of movement regulations Wayne?
It's a genuine question.
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In reply to Post #644
As you know , Blair is a pric* who i have said on many occasions should be in prison ,
Your not being very "alert " are you lad !
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In reply to Post #643
I’m sure the gates to this country were unlocked in 2004 under Blair / brown and have never been closed since.......hence the leaving of the EU........
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This asylum seeker has served time for violence and is a known shoplifter , a neighbor said he threw a tv out of a flat window ,
The dirty side they don't want talked about is his links with the MEN arena bomber and how our MI6 knew and allowed these future terrorists to come and go from the uk to Libya and was policy under Cameron as they fought against Gaddafi whilst being trained and radicalized by isis ! until it went ti*s up , hopefully there will be an inquiry , but i'm sure things will be "too sensitive" to be released
link .
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #641
Time for your medication now....
Yes of course you can have it on the back of your unicorn.
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Trump has done a fantastic job in America he should call in the army and start taking those terrorists out.
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In reply to Post #635
Soz if this offended 
But well done all involved and some are still saying - defund the police - shame on them!
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In reply to Post #636
Agree. Just a shame they didn’t shoot the ****
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #637
Yeah and good to see it reported in the right way too.
A bit of balance does everyone good.
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In reply to Post #636
Outstanding bravery shown again by the police and emergency services dealing with an armed lunatic bent on causing carnage.
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In reply to Post #635
Well done our police. They deserve medals
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Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
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In reply to Post #633
Why do you think the sentence was too lenient?
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In reply to Post #629
Was the judge on the jolly boys outing bus there and back?
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In reply to Post #629
Yes outraging public decency is basically just exposing your bits to the public. though i now think it covers female genitalia as well, there's progress for you.
Wollow dickie bird - will make some sense to some but not many
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #629
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In reply to Post #628
I've configured my forum preferences so the latest posts come at the bottom so i read down the page
Its just a lazy moment
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In reply to Post #627
The judge understood he didn't deliberately deface a monument so gave him 14 days for peeing in public.
I don't think there is a set sentence but that's what he was given to keep most people happy
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In reply to Post #625
So MSM aren't saying much in case we copy the French unrest, or maybe they just want us to believe we are the only ones with a problem.
Whatever the reason MSM are manipulating
In reply to Post #626
Fishie you can always use the Reply button nearer to the top next to (Make A Favourite) It's under the thread title
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #626
don't do facebook but I can imagine.
as said - the idiots will always exploit these situations. If they can find them then they should ALL faces fines etc.
is 14 days the going rate for desecrating a statue? or is that for peeing in public? (genuinely asking here as I've never been charged with either and was wondering if it's a 'fixed penalty' or down to court discretion)
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In reply to Post #625
Spanks not a direct reply to you but your reply button was nearest and I couldn't be bothered to scroll up soz
For those that do FaceBook or if someone can paste a link from the Metropolitan Police Service there is a load of photos from both weekends of riots. The outrage on here should be replicated by outing those ****s who think its Ok to break social distancing during a pandemic and just go for the fun of fighting police and desecrating the Cenotaph.
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In reply to Post #624
Bit naive here tinhead !
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In reply to Post #623
More like it's a case of the MSM thinking......another day in France and the French are protesting, no new news to report there then
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In reply to Post #622
I was thinking , as with the minimal coverage of gilet jaunes riots , they don't want to give us any ideas !
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In reply to Post #621
If you believe the MSM we are the only country with problems, no other country is entering recession, no other country is facing social problems and no other country has ****s breaking social distancing rules.
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In reply to Post #620
Meanwhile in France , not seeing much of this on the tv
Very naughty .
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In reply to Post #619
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #618
My understanding is that it's each team for one game. Their first match back after lockdown.
Actually we are probably saying the same thing Ralph. One game each - 12 games in that first round of matches?
Edit. Dominic Raab. .... utter c**k .... and he's getting paid to make decisions on our behalf...
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In reply to Post #613
It's not for one game mal , it's 12
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #616
🤣 keep the faith and they'll bite eventually ....
Your wife has a good point. I know my local C of E church run a year round food bank scheme for the local community, but the organisation itself is sitting on a lot of wealth that could be shared. They could probably afford to paint an aeroplane too....
Not just political activists asking for the statues to be removed. But if it has taken this moment in history for the powers that be to make change then so be it.
Same with big business. You're right in that they've had years to sort out their in house inequalities and should have done it already. If they're doing it now - for financial rather than moral reasons - then at least it's getting done.
Yeah the football shirt thing is for each team for the first match back after lockdown. Doesn't hurt anyone and saves David Luiz the embarrassment of having his own name on his back
Sis is all good thanks. Still underpaid and undervalued by Boris and co. But we're in a time of change so who knows eh?
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In reply to Post #613
Important thing first 48hrs of ...... blanking
You know it was a left leaning board and i have no problem with that, it will be removed in the right way
Top trumps time my wife sends money to an orphanage sponsored through her church and refuses to give money to the actual church until the CofE start to spend some of their immense wealth.
This whole situation has highlighted to society the perceived or real walls to a better life. But before this it was dare I say political activists that were pursuing courses of action to remove these inanimate objects which had no resonance with the general public who basically couldn't care less as it did not impact on their lives. I include all sections, race, colour and creed in this.
I must of misunderstood I didn't know it was a one off with regards to the football shirts. Apologies
Big businesses are now apologising and so they should, but i feel this is purely because of profits as opposed to a new found enlightening, they have had years to apologise for this.
How’s your sister?
You take care
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In reply to Post #614
Everything you need to know about politics is in that series and nothing has changed since.
Big fave of mine
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For people who like to put links to newspapers in their posts
LINK
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #610
Hiya fishie
Hope all is good with you and your dad is doing well
Maybe a left biased board? who knows? Thing with Rhodes is they changed the name of a country to redress the colonial balance so maybe the statue is something that should have been addressed a long time ago... As for the bursaries..? Well a thread has been pulled and things will unravel - some joined up thinking on that could become another positive action. Maybe use that funding for school projects in Africa. I sponsor a little girl's schooling in Malawi for a lot less per month than an Oxford scholoarship...
With many of the statues, there have been petitions and requests that have been met with 'we will look into it' for years now. If the current movement finally gets people to finally stop looking into it and take some action then I'm all for it - as you say, in the right way rather than a criminal one.
I like that the players were prepared to let their shirts carry a positive message rather than their own names. It's for 1 game and it doesn't hurt anyone. I imagine some of them would be happy to keep it that way indefinitely. As we've seen with Marcus Rashford this week, they carry huge influence and we all know that racism in football is still a nasty problem. Doing it now in empty stadiums means the message can get out without it risking the idiot brigade in the stands boiling over I guess.
Caught anything yet?
Have a good day man
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In reply to Post #610
Football got it right with the knee but not with BLM on the back of the shirts. IMHO.
Agree. It should have said ALM
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #608
I reckon you're right Bob.
Whereas the only logical conclusion having read the article should be 'Fiona Onasanya is a bit desperate for attention and a bit of an idiot', plenty of knuckle draggers will take it as excuse to rubbish the whole BLM movement.
See also BS like 'You can't say Christmas nowadays', 'You get arrested for flying the flag of St George', blah blah blah.
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In reply to Post #609
Hi Mal
Rhodes
Positive that it was decided on in the right way and with due process, although i think it was a biased board towards the left, But that is the way to do it! Not ropes, spraypaint and angry mobs.
But to take this step they must venture down the path refusing scholarships, patronages, bursaries and financial support from the Rhodes or other dubious legacies. I don't see Bill Clinton commenting on his scholarship funded by Rhodes!
I cant believe that children still have coco pops, FFS chocolate for breakfast should be outlawed!
Football got it right with the knee but not with BLM on the back of the shirts. IMHO.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #608
Some people will use things like this as an excuse to dismiss the positive movement. Hopefully most will just see it a s a silly distraction from something important.
I thought the football got it right last night. 10 seconds of respectful support hurts no-one and sends a message for those who feel strongly in favour.
There are small steps happening still - the Oxford college with the statue of Rhodes has had a vote and decided to take the statue down. No violence or vandalism but instead voices being listened to.
I'm staying positive - of course!
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In reply to Post #607
Agreed I can do that and will but I know people who it will aggravate, they aren't anti BLM but they will not be encouraged.
Said it before this thread is made up of a small mostly strong opinionated people there's a whole wide world out of people out there.
Dismiss these type of reports at your peril.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #606
honestly tinhead - this just looks like someone who craves the limelight exploiting a good thing for the sake of her own vanity...
delete and move on to better things
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Does this really help the BLM cause or does it actually do the complete opposite. If you're already onboard then it's easy to dismiss but if you're trying to convince other people that are indifferent does this help?
As I mix with a lot of Joe Averages I can tell you this turns many of them off.
LINK
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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https://www.goal.com/en/news/sheffield-unitedaston-villa-sheffield-united-players-take-a-knee-/1thkr9tjcqllf1ha8icq5ch3nm
well done all involved - after the call for the 'football lads' last week this was a simple and respectful gesture in contrast
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In reply to Post #595
I got burgled about 10 years ago and believe it or not they took my 20 pair mint collection of Gazelle's. I'd built it up over years. Wasn't too arsed about the car, TV etc but the trainers
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In reply to Post #597
I've friends in the met one was very good friends with pc palmer..he went to the funeral..id love to turn back time when I left school id join up..id be a right bastid..cause me grief get it back..
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #601
Never heard of her
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In reply to Post #600
Aaah would not of guessed that.
Awful person
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In reply to Post #599
Gemma Collins!!
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In reply to Post #594
What's GC ?
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In reply to Post #592
He told me similar story’s mate. He had one woman come on the bus one day, started talking to him, offered him a sweet, nice as pie as they say. He later got stuck in traffic, woman kicks of saying she was going to be late, he apologises, sorry love, I cannot do nothing about road works. **** off you **** and spat on him. Best thing she stayed on the bus until her stop and continued to hurl abuse at him until she got off!!!
Nobody should have to put up with that. Unbelievable some people
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In reply to Post #595
what pissed me off most is they scuffed my new Adidas gazelles
Made me laugh that
Too right
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Typical teacher, god our kids are doomed.
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In reply to Post #587
I had an arv pull me over outside embankment station many moons ago, was made to lay face down on the pavement.the sight of 4 rifles pointing at me is one I don't want again..apparently because I was driving a Toyota hi ace van they thought I was ira..what pissed me off most is they scuffed my new Adidas gazelles
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #586
'And what is wrong with Essex?'
'The GC' - anything else about it is fine in comparison
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In reply to Post #592
As you're an advocate of a police state it's probably for the best so ditto.
I'll expect an apology from you via pm
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In reply to Post #587
Listen, i'm not going to get into a slanging match with you and you're the last person I need to explain myself to but you are spot on, I had nothing to worry about as I had done nothing wrong but for me personally I would be quite happy to get pulled over a couple of times a year let alone twice in forty years if that helped reduce crime figures, like I say if you are not guilty of something no need to worry. I'd say that you are one of the people the police need to worry about as you appear to be very confrontational
Oh and by the way, to address your implied slur on the good people of Essex, anything by way of an apology?
I wont be replying to you again as this thread is more like a children's playground with the bully's often getting the last word!
Thanks Sir B and Scozza
I had a mate who was a bus driver, got spat at in Lewisham by a woman, told everyone to get off the bus and drove back to the depot and jacked it in there and then. That is a true story. He then went onto work the next thirty years as a service technician for the same company as me, like you say, what is society coming to?!!!
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In reply to Post #588
Every time you post I find myself nodding my head in agreement
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In reply to Post #588
You said "if you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to worry about" My reply was to that.
The society I want is people to obey the law and that includes the police. Regards police numbers, that's what happens with a decade of austerity.
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In reply to Post #586
until he gets called all manner of stuff and is spat at in the face of course
Appalling
I think if somebody did that to me i would be going to prison
My Mrs and her team have had that quite a bit, the spit hood is a good thing what they have introduced now though. Mesh hood they put on the spitters now, personally i think a good kick in the teeth would be better but hey, ho
I was talking to a cleaner at work the other week, really nice fella. Started talking about work and stuff like you do and i asked him where he worked before, turns out he was a bus driver. Said he packed the job in, i asked him why, surely that must be a massive drop in money? It was but he was sick of getting spat at and the abuse. Used to get spat at regular WTF
If people are doing things like that they have no respect for anybody, low life's. Seriously, they should be able to cripple the ****s
What is society becoming ffs
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In reply to Post #587
I did say for minor traffic transgressions which would possibly involve a talking to or a ticket/fine/points of some description, either way no reason for any type of attitude which i'm pretty sure is the reason for a lot of people's strife with the police, why people have to give them attitude when they could probably walk away without a load of hassle always amazes me, and like I said I have heard first hand some of the crap they have to put up with
I'm not sure what kind of society you want but personally I prefer one where there are police there to protect us, if you want the alternative of lawlessness and criminals running riot then that's up to you but think about it as we are getting there already and for some crimes, car, burglary, etc....you don't even get a copper these days just a crime number for insurance purposes so in a way the criminals are already winning
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In reply to Post #586
Why would you be stopped by the police if you've done nothing wrong? I've said before, in the UK we police by consent. The police have to have a reason to stop you so there's already the suspicion, there lays part of the problem.....
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In reply to Post #584
And what is wrong with Essex? I have to say i'm not from that part of the world but rural Essex is beautiful, if you are judging the people by the county and what you perceive a certain person to be like then that is stereotyping to a ridiculous level, there are idiots and morons from across the whole country...including Cheshire
I would also like to ask, and this is no way a defence of the utter twit who was urinating next to the memorial to PC Keith Palmer but why wasn't the other complete twit who was urinating up against Churchill's plinth pursued by the press with the same vigour?
I personally would like to see a more balanced approach to reporting some of this stuff, especially by the BBC who said that the guy outside Waterloo station was being rescued from being 'trampled on'???From the film I saw he was getting kicked to death by BLM protesters, we can never assume he was a far right supporter, he may well have been but its not the events but the way the events are portrayed in the press that gets my goat
As for the police, my nephew is a copper and I may be biased but he is a very decent young man who goes about his policing in a respectful manner.....until he gets called all manner of stuff and is spat at in the face of course, his life threatened...etc...etc..... possibly a reason why some of them might be overly aggressive
I'd say to all of the people screaming out for the police to reign it in and basically be given less power you should all be careful what you wish for, you or your loved ones may need them one day when you have, god forbid been the victim of crime
I have probably in the past forty plus years been pulled over on a couple of occasions for minor traffic transgressions, I find it best not to antagonise the police, if you have done no wrong you have nothing to worry about, in my situations I find a case of 'yes sir, no sir three bags full sir' always helps, i'm not quite sure why a copper would point a taser at someone if they took that approach and complied
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In reply to Post #582
Totally innocent at all times. It says a lot about the police for how they treat innocent people. Keep trying to say that “it must be something to do with you then” when in reality it’s because you cannot even attempt to justify the conduct I’ve described but you want to try and defend the police to death. Maybe I have been unlucky enough to draw the short straw and encounter the ‘bad apples’ on multiple occasions, or maybe it’s because they all have the same mentality (whether that’s more general or only when their at work I don’t know) of loving the power.
“Sums you up” - K then
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In reply to Post #576
It was obvious to everyone from the photo the lump was from Essex. Outed as a Spurs fan ontop
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In reply to Post #580
That's the whole problem stereotyping people!
Same as the earlier comment about old folk and racism!
And then you wonder why we will never move forward. It takes effort from all. everybody, otherwise forget it and that is why it will remain for many years to come sadly
That why i said earlier, everybody has their own personal agendas, sometimes you have to eat humble pie
Forgot to mention, one of my missus colleagues is a Chinese lad, nice fella. He is coining it in, did you know every time they get a racist comment against them they get £50 compensation
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In reply to Post #581
Oh well I’m obviously a thick **** who can’t read 😀 oh well I’ll survive.
If you have never had a positive experience with the police maybe that says something about you. The vast majority of this country have neither had positive or negative encounters with the police, possibly because they haven’t met the police or place themselves in positions where police have had to introduce themselves.
I’d call ghostbusters - sums you up 😡
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In reply to Post #580
Clearly you cannot read. I explained that he was already in the car. Passenger side with keys in his pocket before the police turned up. Why are people saying “reaching in to a car when the police are present”?
Some people are too dumb
If I’d had any encounters with police that were positive then I wouldn’t just assume they are all d*ckheads from the off. But I haven’t so 🤷🏻♂️
I’d call the ghostbusters.
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In reply to Post #578
I’ve stayed out for a little while but you obviously have a problem with the police and your past experiences have formed this opinion. You are able to stereotype all police as bad but the police aren’t allowed to stereotype you!
Just a step back your brother an unknown risk leans into a car. You said he looked like he was robbing the car. I say he saw police and has possibly dumped something In the car or was reaching for a weapon. Two sides same story 😀 also you can be drunk in charge of a motor vehicle without driving.
Not all police are bad and who would you call when you have a problem!
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Wasn't sure where to post this
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/never-mind-churchill-clement-attlee-is-a-model-for-these-times?utm_campaign=falcon&utm_brand=tny&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=facebook&mbid=social_facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR3j7GqH3x40tIOaznhRgxh0ks2h39vGg4HCznToxqxr_Z3VqwRVGpOknPg
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In reply to Post #577
My attitude to the police is based on their attitude towards me. Explain to me the situation I described and how to justify it. You can’t, even thought your likely to make some weak excuse. If your misses is plod then show her and ask her if that’s how they teach them to operate. See what she says.
Not really sure what the rest of your rant is about tbf.
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In reply to Post #573
Maybe it’s your attitude towards the law that’s the problem
Funny old game, all coppers are *******s. Different story when a drug rat calls them up asking for protection because there’s a team outside wanting to give him a good beating etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. happens all the time
Tell you what, if it was me I would get lost on the way and drive at 5mph
Here’s some more feedback based on facts. Ethnic groups are the biggest racists about. You white **** is a favourite phrase, white lesbian bitch is another, see the colour pattern, not to mention against each other blacks, Asians, add Eastern European’s and it get better still
And don’t forget the favourite phrase, is it because I’m black
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In reply to Post #575
Yeah he's a Spurs fan says it all
The judge did say he was so pissed he didn't realise where he was doing it so at least there was no intent to desecrate that poor copper's memorial
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Two weeks jail and a lifetime of embarrassment for that moron with the weak bladder.
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In reply to Post #572
Am I the only one who watches videos likethis and wishes they'd get the truncheons out?
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In reply to Post #572
If you’re innocent there can be no consequences. If I was guilty I probably wouldn’t be hanging about to get caught!
As I said it’s personal experience. Mine have been negative therefore I lack the trust and respect most people have in the police force as a whole organisation. I know it’s not all of them but I don’t plan on finding out which ones they are tbh.
My point was that it doesn’t take much more than a few incidents whether you’re involved or witness them to feel a certain way. Kids that grow up with crime around them more likely than not have little respect for the police. For criminals they are another enemy but I’m talking in general about normal people who see it and get profiled and have to deal with it. Telling them to suddenly just trust and respect the police will never work.
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In reply to Post #571
I have heard these type of things from others but I also know plenty of others that don't have problems.
All I can say is I've not had any problems, the way my daughter acted didn't cause her any problems.
Let's hope you don't have another run in with the police but if you do and you act stroppy then they'll likely be consequences.
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In reply to Post #569
He was getting rizla out his glovebox whilst in the passenger side and they approached him as they thought he was robbing the car. After the checks were done and checked out they moved on to drink driving, he was in passenger side with keys in his pocket I’m sure I’ve told you this story before.
They could have left once he checked out but they didn’t. They wanted a collar and tried their hardest to get one. After they failed with him and I told him to just leave as they have no reason to detain him they started on me. Beggars belief really.
Not sure how you can say anything post checking his details were correct was required or justified. I get why they pulled over in the first place but again, they were aggressive from the off.
You can try and justify all of that however you want but it’s impossible They were on a power trip looking for an arrest. All gee’d up they’d come across a crime in progress and when it wasn’t they couldn’t leave it.
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In reply to Post #569
I’ve seen the pattern throughout the thread mate. It’s finally coming out now. All coppers are *******s
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In reply to Post #568
I have little respect because the power trip runs from top to bottom.
There we go Scozza you missus is included
Maybe it's you on the power trip?
Being threatened with arrest and using physical means to move me when they try and arrest my brother for getting rizla and filters out his own car
That's an easy one to understand. When in the presence of the police don't go into you car to get a weapon. Ok it wasn't a weapon but how's the police to know that, was it really important to get a Rizla at that precise moment?
No need to answer just trying to show how outsiders could look at it.
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In reply to Post #566
Yeah I don’t think it was racial towards me. Just police being power hungry pr*cks and buzzing off it.
Being slammed against a wall for trying to give someone who’s been arrested their glasses back isn’t warranted and then threatened with arrest 🤷🏻♂️
Being threatened with arrest and using physical means to move me when they try and arrest my brother for getting rizla and filters out his own car 🤷🏻♂️
Having a taser pointed at you (And everything associated with it including being handcuffed) for no reason other than there was someone they were chasing in the area, incidentally didn’t match my description at all 🤷🏻♂️
Being blocked in a parking space because I “took a left turn after it looked like I was going to go right when we were behind you” just because we were a group of young lads in a car 🤷🏻♂️
There’s a few other incidents as well.
In each incident totally innocent but treated like a criminal. Even though this country works on the basis of innocent until proven guilty? Those are my experiences and why I have little time for police anymore. I know my rights so I don’t say a word to them anymore if they engage with me. I have little respect because the power trip runs from top to bottom.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #566
Or a black and white horizontal striped jumper perhaps?
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In reply to Post #564
I think you said a while back that although your name is not typically British you're not black so maybe it was down to your attitude and your body language?
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In reply to Post #563
Spot on that mate
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In reply to Post #561
As I said it’s from my personal negative experiences, all whilst innocent. Tasers, physicality, stupidity and even verbal abuse. Formal complaints snubbed.
I’m sure many people have much worse done to them.
This is what I mean about the lack of respect coming from the police actions and why normal people don’t want to entertain nonsense from them. It’s why many people know their rights inside out so they can get rid of them as quickly as possible.
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In reply to Post #561
Wow, that is pretty powerful but when you hear it from experience it certainly brings it home!
Respect the badge. Very good point. It’s called the law and the reality is, NOBODY is above it even if they think they are
That’s a good starting point because a lot do not so that is the first part of the escalation spiral when dealing with people
Said it earlier in the thread. The number of times black people get arrested and play the race card, “is it because I’m black” is unreal. No it’s because you committed a crime you ****ing retard
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In reply to Post #557
Hi Greekskii,
Your post is, in more detail, pointing out some of the social problems facing US blacks in inner cities that I've been saying is keeping them in social deprivation, and immersed in a victim culture.
As for the causes and reasons for it, I pointed out in previous posts that the welfare system encourages father absence and the increase, now of 70% , in mother only families living on welfare.
I also pointed out that most cities with large inner city black communities have been governed by Democrat politicians for decades, with little improvements to the problems that blacks face. They are mostly, the cities which harbour most of the 10 million+ illegal immigrants that compete with blacks for jobs. It's also worth noting that Democrats rely on 90% of the black vote in elections.
I also pointed out that, since being in office, Trump with the help and advice of the black Senator, Tim Scott have together, instigated policies directly for improvements to black and ethnic communities, the most important being the Opportunity Zones Legislation, which has raised 75 billion dollars of private funding, being invested in 1000s of designated poor areas across the US. Look back at my post 191 to see the other improvement policies. Remember that, before coronavirus, Trump's economic policies had raised economic growth and low ethnic unemployment to record levels.
Re prisons, Trump has introduced the 1st Step Act, which released 1000s of blacks imprisoned by the 1994 Crime Bill, which was introduced by the Clinton administration.
It's good to see that policies have been introduced that are addressing the problems of ethnic minorities, but it won't be a quick fix because real change takes years to come into effect.
BB.
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In reply to Post #554
It’s a stalemate because neither will be willing to change unless the other attitude does.
now if approached I will not give them the time of day
That doesn't help does it?
My youngest daughter got in trouble with the police, said she was sorry and attended YOS what would have happened if she had kicked off?
The following link is not meant to offend but sounds like this woman is ready to make a change
LINK
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In reply to Post #558
Neurotic rambling again
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In reply to Post #554
Are you saying the trust in the police is nil in the UK or the USA?
Because if the former I would dispute this fact and would ask for your evidence for this. If it’s the latter fair enough as I don’t have enough knowledge or evidence to dispute this.
This is the problem in all this people using google, MSM, YouTube and other influenced stories and their spin on statistics. 😡 trying to convince everyone they are right.
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In reply to Post #555
Hi Ocelot,
You can argue about the semantics if it pleases you.
What I find odd, is that you follow me around the forum looking for flaws in my posts.
It seems to give you pleasure if you think you have found one.
I wonder why you hardly ever put your hat in the ring and post your own opinions.
Rather than standing on the sidelines holding people's coats.
BB.
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In reply to Post #556
You’re forgetting about socially engineered poverty. Keeping the poor poor, sadly majority black, why? Racial inequalities over time. Getting the poor people to fight each other, why? A life of crime due to the realities of ‘getting out’ being restricted. Poor schooling, no support systems, mum needs help with the bills and your 14 and can’t work but you can get good money dealing so you do it, along with peer pressure or being groomed. You get immersed in a life of crime as a child. They don’t know better. You sell drugs for some local dealer (black probably) and his supplier? The one with no risk and all the big profit? Probably white. (Based on anecdotal evidence). Child gets caught and has a criminal record before their 16th birthday. Life prospects severely hampered due to lack of education and now a criminal record.
Also look at incarceration in America. There is more black people in prison for small amounts of drug possession than there is for murder, rape and gun violence put together. (FYI this is pre weed being legal, yet those already in prison remain there) yet the amount of white people in for the same? Nowhere near. Why? Private prisons. No one cares about the poor black kid locked up for a bit of weed, but they would the middle classed white kid. It happens here to an extent now private prisons exist.
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In reply to Post #550
Hi Mal,
Yes, you are correct in that I disagree with most of your post and that there is little point in going back and forth.
However, I think it useful to point out that you misunderstand my opinion and reasoning.
As I've said, I follow US politics on line and US social life in general, because I like and admire in many ways, their enthusiasm and optimism at the cutting edge of the progress of western democracy.
Your statement that the problem that US inner city blacks face is simply that of oppression and suppression is a gross oversimplification of the multiple problems they face.
Do you honestly think that their problems of welfare dependent poverty, father absence, bad schooling,
gang culture and crime, don't play a major part in their predicament? They are as capable as any ethnic group, of taking a responsible and respectable place in mainstream society, if given the opportunity.
Any ethnic group, creed or race would be trapped in that sort of social deprivation and be largely unable to ' raise their game ' and go on to reach their full potential, without a decent start in life that a stable family brings and the opportunity that a good education gives to aim towards a meaningful life.
Your racial oppression only argument is partly flawed by the fact that millions of ethnic minorities and legal immigrants lead successful lives, with self confidence and without racial impediment. They see themselves as Americans first and not as ethnic minorities grouped by identity politics into tribal groups.
1000s of them go on to positions of high office, senators, state governors, city mayors, congressmen and women, even to become president and in all the professions and academia.
How would this be possible if the US was as racist as you claim? Of course, racism exists and all races are guilty of it, and there are plenty of race baiters who deliberately exaggerate It.
I care as much as you about the inequalities in our Western democracies and believe that, if those affected were encouraged by policy or whatever means, to adopt familial responsibility and a work ethic and the importance of good education, then they would realise their potential and take their place in mainstream society in a position of relevance. People of all races, who lead successful, meaningful lives, have the self confidence and social standing to reject all forms of victimhood, because they are living proof that anyone in western democracies can rise above it, given the opportunity.
BB.
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In reply to Post #544
At last! Next time you try to rewrite history with your spin on it get the facts right at least. Call him what you like he was an a*******e
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In reply to Post #553
Yes but the issue being that the trust in the police force is NIL. And negative experiences build up a resentment and ruin respect.
I’ve mentioned before that I’ve had a number of bad experiences with the police whilst being innocent and now if approached I will not give them the time of day. The distrust for black people of the police force will exist until there is change. It’s a stalemate because neither will be willing to change unless the other attitude does.
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In reply to Post #552
Ok so black people are statistically going to commit more crime because there are have been and are being treated unfairly, I get that but when they are caught by the police all they have to do is go quietly, resist arrest and there will be consequences. I understand that blacks can be unfairly be pulled over when they are innocent but causing a scene may get you into the same trouble.
So change needs to be on both sides or more to the point attitudes must change on both sides.
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In reply to Post #551
Not every policeman has guns here however plenty of criminals do. Should we introduce them as standard?
End of the day he was shot in the back. Now if you watch the footage he does turn and aim the tazer but the policeman already has the gun pulled and aimed at him. He doesn’t fire it and runs off and then gets shot. If he’d been shot as he aimed The tazer at them it would be a smidgen more understandable. But he was shot after he lowered it and ran.
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In reply to Post #548
The cops will have extensive training is the use of Tazer. You have to have a license over here. As for the comment dont let anybody take it off you is nonsense. Anything can happen in a real life situation and it does. A powerful man against a weaker man, easy, add a drink or drug fuelled rage, no contest.
There is a precedence to set here. Is it OK for everybody to snatch a Tazer or gun and point it at a cop or should we wait until they are shot. is it OK for everybody to run away, no, again it sets a precedence, everybody would do it
The shooting was probably wrong but in the heat of battle anything can happen. The trouble is now is that a few million eyes are dissecting every single micro second
Difficult one but if cops did not have guns they would not shoot people but while ever criminals have guns they should fight fire with fire for me.
The data about cop kills below is enough said for me. I would want to deal with people like that, no way
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #543
Morning BB
let me clarify - you are missing the point with your continued insistence of making sure you tell us it was a Democrat who was in charge when slavery / oppression / racism is mentioned. It doesn't bloody matter - racist is racist whatever party they represent. I mean, God forbid we should suggest a Republican president is racist... where might we get that idea....?
As for naive and insulting, your suggestion that it's simply a question of black americans 'raising their game' is both. The 'game' is fixed and the odds are stacked in favour of white america which has built it's wealth on centuries of black oppression. The american dream that you have previously stated is there for all is a myth. Not all americans have the same dream - I'm pretty sure Dr King's dream is not the same as your beloved Trump's....
If I can use a race (no pun intended) as an analogy. The 'finish line' is fixed - but white america (and Britain to a lesser but still noticeable extent) is starting much further along the track than black america. Yes there is a complex history to it - but the single, simple underlying factor is that of black oppression and suppression. It's easy to say that it's because 'they are criminals' or 'they need to work harder' and 'we all have the same chances' when speaking from a more advantaged position. but it's just not true - in america or in britain.
my suggestion that you are trying to excuse this is based solely on what you choose to post - 'facts and figures' that look to excuse it. I'm simply commenting on what I read and how it appears. the facts and figures you post and the videos you suggest have a bias to them - either consciously, or you simply don't see it (which I doubt because you seem more intelligent than that).
white america making excuses is part of the problem. those in power need to change for any 'game' to be fair.
I'm sure you won't agree with most / all of this and there's little point in us going back and forth.
Can i suggest a very good film that explores a lot of the background to this from perhaps a different perspective?
Ava DuVernay's multi award winning documentary film '13th'.
Have a good day all
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In reply to Post #548
Yes I think the point being made is that they used lethal force on a non-lethal threat. He was running away and had a taser which is non-lethal. I’m sire they are trying to make a number of points with this case. One key one being if someone points a taser at you it’s not okay to shoot them dead. Can only imagine that would be a dangerous message if it was seen as okay.
Guy was on a mad one but still a number of other ways to apprehend him. Not to say it was stone cold murder due to race though. More likely it was a twitchy cop that probably shouldn’t be in the field if they get nervous.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #546
I see your point, the bloke was obviously nuts, but it goes without saying if you’re armed don’t let anybody you intend to harm disarm you.
New info. and video shows he was actually shot in the back as he ran away and the local chief of police has quit
link
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In reply to Post #534
Andrew Jackson - National Union Party.
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Just watched the latest shooting.
He was over the limit, you cannot sit behind the drivers seat, if you do you are guilty. Also, people banging on about the Tazer snatch, 20,000 volts I think?, good job it wasn’t a gun he pinched isn’t it!
So the key question is, who would want to deal with that then?
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Watching the news, interesting banners. “Ban racism, homes and jobs for all”
Think of that what you like, it’s clear to me...
On another note, the black man who picked the white man up should be on every banner around the world and a role model for how we move forward. Quite a moving picture that. We are all in this together. Amazing really amongst all this crap
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In reply to Post #537
Hi Ocelot,
Andrew Johnson was the vice President to Lincoln and took over the presidency when Lincoln was assassinated in 1865.
He was known as a War Democrat who rejected the policies of the Peace Democrats and supported the Republican policies of Lincoln, which was why he was given the vice presidency.
He was a Republican in all but name and pushed their policies.
You are free to call him a Democrat if you choose.
BB.
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In reply to Post #536
Hi Mal,
I contend that it is you who is missing the point by refusing to acknowledge the complicated sequence of events that took place for US blacks from slavery up to the present day, and the social and cultural issues they face today, which keep them trapped in welfare poverty and crime culture.
Promoting the one word answer as racism is naïve and does the US blacks no favours in not addressing the issues that would encourage them to raise their game towards improving their situation.
I have as much sympathy towards their problems as you or anyone else, which is why I have previously posted them in detail, and some of the policies that have been enacted to try and address them.
To suggest that I might be trying to excuse racism is both disengenuous and insulting.
As I said to Spanker, I'm not interested in arguing with any of you, but rather, posting facts and figures, which give more info and context to the issue.
BB.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #540
Certainly no Patrick Hutchinson, the star of yesterday's **** show.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #538
Spanker posted a link with his call to arms. Spouting off about people who call themselves lads and football lads needing to be in London this weekend.
Ironically these ‘lads’ spend every weekend cheering on their teams who without exception, have black players
People there were chanting his name so his minions were there even if he wasn’t .
Sorry Ralph I know you’re a fan but he’s a troublemaker. Yes, he drew attention to Muslim nonces but he doesn’t seem to mention white catholic priests or white celebrities/royals doing it.
Some of his cronies have Chinese writing and tribal tattoos ffs
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #539
perhaps he isn't 'a real man' - in his words that is....
or not 'a lad who goes to football' ....
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #529
Don't know how he got dragged into this , he wasn't even there , I know that , fact
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In reply to Post #535
Our?
The 17th President and the dates?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #533
BB - you're doing it again....
missing the point
Historical Democrat racists or historical Republican racists have one major thing in common.... can you work out what it is yet?
I know you like watching videos - can I suggest watching the one that Ken Townley posted the link to earlier on this thread? It's really very good.
And you do realise that every time you try to excuse racist behaviour in the US with a set of statistics it makes it look increasingly like you are excusing racism? You're not are you?
as for Tommy Robinson and his little nazi's - Noj makes a very compelling argument....
vile little creature is about right
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In reply to Post #534
Hi Ocelot,
The first Democrat elected after the Civil War in 1885, our 22nd and 24th President Grover Cleveland was the only President to leave the White House and return for a second term four years later (1885-1889 and 1893-1897).
BB.
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In reply to Post #533
A Democrat president succeeded Lincoln in 1865, 6 days after the ending of the civil war. Served a full 4 years
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In reply to Post #532
Hi Ocelot,
Lincoln was the first president after the civil war and was inaugurated in 1861.
After his assassination, a string of Republican presidents were in office until 1885 when a Democrat, Grover Cleveland was inaugurated 24 years later.
BB.
Edit.
Jim Crow laws were state and local laws that enforced racial segregation in the Southern United States. All were enacted in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by white Democratic-dominated state legislatures to disenfranchise and remove political and economic gains made by blacks during the Reconstruction period
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In reply to Post #531
The US Union president when the civil war was won and slavery was abolished nationally was a Democrat.
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In reply to Post #528
Hi Bob,
I wonder if many on here know that the southern Confederate States that operated and defended slavery were Democrats. After the Republican north won the civil war and abolished slavery, it was the southern Democrats that introduced the Jim Crow segregation laws and started the KKK. A Confederate general was one of their first Grand Wizards.
Noj,
As reprehensible as those people may be, they don't represent the vast majority of the general public, who are regarded world wide as respectable, fair-minded people.
There are extremists at both ends of the spectrum.
BB.
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In reply to Post #529
Noj get down off that fence and say what you think 👍🏻
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #525
Shame he didn’t tell his minions they would a) get a good hiding and b) make the country he apparently defends a worldwide laughing stock.
Cowardly, thick as ****, fat bunch of ****s living in the past need to sort themselves out
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In reply to Post #503
Got a Black-American friend living over in Alabama he’s got the Confederate flag flying outside his house, asked him once when I was over there why he was still flying the flag. His answer was because I’m a southerner and bloody proud of it.
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I have never seen as much gaslighting going on in politics as i am now , the establishment is rattled ! it has to sustain the right wing agenda and popular support of the idiots ! yet not make it look too obvious , it's a tightrope !
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In reply to Post #521
Murders are generally up close affairs. Why do your stats say what they say I wonder
Pretty poor showing for America Inc whichever way
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In reply to Post #519
He only tells the truth
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In reply to Post #522
Hi Spanker,
I'm not looking to argue with you or anyone else.
I try to look beyond the emotion and speculation and look for the truth based on whatever evidence is available, or has to be searched for to try and formulate an opinion.
I've just offered some evidence that can be taken into consideration.
BB.
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In reply to Post #520
Unless you go to those countries I wouldn’t worry about it, here it’s to the chest area. And to be quite honest both the assailant and the officer get affected by it as some stage you have to initiate contact!
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In reply to Post #521
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J134v09n03_03?journalCode=wpov20
I don't think that you have actually been looking for the truth , for whatever reason ?
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In reply to Post #513
Hi Scozza,
In any rational enquiry into the BLM accusations of racism and police brutality in the US, the levels of black crime, perhaps should be taken into consideration as a possible contributory factor.
The population percentage of blacks in the US is approx 15%.
The FBI stats for 2018 show that, for all crimes other than homicide, black arrests were approx 30%, twice their population percentage.
The homicide stats show that approx 53% of victims were black.
The homicide stats show that, of the perps, approx 55% were black and approx 30% were unknown.
Given the stats, it would be reasonable to suspect that half the unknown perps might be blacks, which would then raise their perp percentage to 70%, which is the percentage of blacks killed by other blacks.
In 2018, the homicide victim number was 14123. Of these, 410 were listed as justifiable homicides in confrontations with law enforcement.
Given the above figures, the disproportionate number of black murders by other blacks in their communities,
I would think, would be as much cause for concern by BLM and the establishment, as the deaths in confrontations with police.
BB.
Edit. On re- examining the data, the percentage of black homicide perps overall for 2018 is 53% not 70%.
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In reply to Post #518
Just go on youtube and search "police using pepper spray " in France , Russia , America and uk they all seem to spray directly at the face
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #517
‘Call yourself a lad, a football lad’
Horrible little **** is a stain on the human race and all the mugs that buy into his bull****
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In reply to Post #515
Nope go for the main body mass and the spray carries the CS with it. And spraying the face could allow for it to be pushed into the eye causing major damage.
Its basically a powerful water pistol with side effects
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Tommy's telling a few porkies
https://www.facebook.com/TheProleStar/videos/672113800187117/UzpfSTU2NTEyMTcwMDE4ODM4MzozMjc2NDc0Mjc5MDUzMDk4/
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In reply to Post #514
Unfortunately now in USA tensions are high between the police and the black community, where they ever not?
We were not at the latest incident and suppositions and assumptions have been made by both sides and to be honest it will take days to go through the evidence, trace witnesses and come to a semblance of knowledge about what happened!
In relation to the racist idiots yesterday they have done more for the BLM movement and highlighting inequalities than last weeks protesters, both peaceful and violent, could ever have highlighted themselves.
Those idiots who Nazi saluted, carried England flags and basically just wanted a fight do not represent the majority of the population of the UK. I saw in the media beatings from both sides and animalistic tendencies not seen since the poll tax riots. The police were in a no win scenario and full kit from the off was the way forward, but also it should have been last week when the marches started. Both were never going to remain peaceful and lets just accept we live in a more violent society.
I believe this has highlighted and exposed the failings in modern society, not all have been from the "white" side. Failings have occurred, opportunities have been missed and now a period of reflection and acceptance from all sides and an understanding that there is light at the end of the tunnel to resolve these issues.
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In reply to Post #514
I thought it was policy to spray in the face as whenever i see them spraying it , seems nearly always to be in the face , it's not like a cs round in a crowd , 1 spray of that to the face and your fuc*ed
Even so , Two blokes at least the same size as him with batons tasers (don't know if they had pepper spray )have to resort to guns , pathetic !
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In reply to Post #511
Pepper spray or CS spray does not work on 10% of the population! And having been CS gassed and sprayed it definitely affects me
And you don't spray to the face you aim for the chest the biggest body mass
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I posted earlier in this thread about US police getting killed whilst on duty and the majority of the deaths are shootings. I also posted about how they are trained to deal with them, crawling on the offender checking for guns because a lot of officers have been shot like this, when the offender is on the ground!. Some basic information here:
2010
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 180 deaths in the line of duty.[3] 161 law enforcement officers were killed in 2010. The average from 1990 to 2010 was 164 per year.[4]
2011
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 187 deaths in the line of duty.[5] The FBI reported that in 2011, "69 law enforcement officers from around the nation were killed in the line of duty, while another 53 officers died in accidents while performing their duties."[6] (released November 19, 2012) NBC News reported 165 dead.[7]
2012
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 141 deaths in the line of duty.[8] For 2012, the FBI records 49 deaths in the line of duty.[9] The FBI Fund counted 49 federal, state and local officers to have been killed in 2012.
2013
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 128 deaths in the line of duty.[10] The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund counted 102 federal, state and local officers to have been killed in 2012.[11] The official count from the FBI is that 27 law enforcement officers were 'feloniously' killed in the line of duty in 2013 (the lowest in a 35-year period 1980-2014), and an additional 49 died in accidents (total: 76).[2][12]
2014
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 158 deaths in the line of duty.[13] The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund counted 126 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers killed.[14] The preliminary count from the FBI is that 51 law enforcement officers were 'feloniously' killed in the line of duty in 2014, and an additional 44 died in accidents (total: 95).[12]
2015
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 164 deaths in the line of duty.[15] The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund counted 124 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers killed. 42 officers were shot and killed and 52 officers were killed in traffic-related incidents.[16]
2006
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 171 deaths in the line of duty.[17] The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund counted 135 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers killed. 64 officers were shot and killed and 21 were ambushed.[18]
2017
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 152 deaths in the line of duty.[19] The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund counted 128 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers killed. Fatalities decreased more than 10 percent with traffic-related fatalities the leading cause this year.[20] Firearms-related fatalities were the second-leading cause of officer deaths, with 44 officers shot and killed in 2017. This represents a 33 percent decrease from the 66 officers killed in firearm-related incidents during 2016.[21]
2018
The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 150 deaths in the line of duty.[22] The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund counted 144 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers killed. Firearms-related fatalities were the leading cause of officer deaths for the year.[23]
You could say there is a sense of paranoia?
Whilst ever they have got guns this will happen, simple. They have to deal with a lot of violent people, what should they use a feather duster?
Yes there are other options but this just goes to show, they can take them off you and use them on you!
If it turns to guns and knifes that is a serious threat and like all people who are trained to use them, its you or them ultimately, who’s it gonna be?
I wonder why there wasn’t a white life’s matter or even black lives matter riot everytime an officer got shot by a black man, strange isn’t it?
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In reply to Post #508
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqQMS9c0Qfs
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In reply to Post #509
pepper spray to the face would of done it
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In reply to Post #506
I think that the other officers footage could be more revealing !
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #508
They outnumbered him and he’s apparently too intoxicated to drive, but he still got the better of them.
Maybe they need coppers that could fight their way out of a wet paper bag without a taser and pistol, ours seem to manage it. This pair shouldn’t be on the frontline if they’re that easily overpowered by one man.
Or just shoot him in the knee or foot?
I’m all for capital punishment and shooting certain criminals on sight, but not making up for your own stupid mistakes or weakness by killing somebody over a traffic violation
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In reply to Post #506
May as well get rid of the police and have Every man, women and child for themselves!!!
Guy is shot because he resisted arrest, took the taser of the policeman before pointing it at the officer! Result is copper shoots man!
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In reply to Post #503
Good old Abraham Lincoln eh. Who would have thought it, If I wasnt for him eh. The American civil war was about slavery and cost 2.5 million lives. Wonder if they are going to pull his statue down?
Saw the news this morning and all the rioting in London. Have to say the police got it so wrong
What they should have done is pull out, let all the morons beat each other to death and get rid of their lockdown anxiety. After this. Go back in, thrown all the bodies in a skip and have a good tidy up. What a bunch of ****ing morons
The media will love it, more fuel for the fire
I see another black man got shot in America, wonder what he was up to
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #504
agreed - Kier doesn't want to be the next Corbyn!
Boris did also say that there's no place for racism in the uk - so will he be stepping down?
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In reply to Post #502
So today Boris has condemned the actions yesterday as basically racist scum and Sir Keir can’t use the word racist. About sums up politics in this country at the moment still posturing and political point scoring.
Sir Keir those people yesterday would never vote Labour so grow some balls and call it out 👍🏻
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Prolonging the Confederate ideology in America , the problem with the statues and the real reason they were erected
https://youtu.be/dOkFXPblLpU
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #501
Same goes for every big city really but you’re right, they don’t mess about.
Doubt anybody is carrying either in the city though, wouldn’t need it against a bunch of angry middle aged Stella drinkers. It’s also not fair to assume they’re gang members because they’re black but odds on they are stronger and more athletic.
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In reply to Post #499
Said this earlier. You got a lot of gang members that stab and shoot people for fun in London. Don’t think twice about it.
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In reply to Post #498
Well the new CV infections have raised this weekend since last weekend and I predict a rise again next weekend 😀 I wonder what could have caused that? I bet those dicks and these dicks were out clapping for the NHS hypocrites one and all 😡
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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The most unlikely source of this image mail
Also a bit of bonus footage further down of black boys battering the **** out of a far right muppet, lucky to be alive! They want to be careful, people don’t meet on the cobbles for fisticuffs at closing time these days
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #497
that's cause you know I'm right
as in 'correct' - not 'normal'
peace and love man
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In reply to Post #495
But when taking a piss i always make sure i am not pissing on my shoes. The image the right did not want but have now been placed in the same category as the cenotaph defilers.
And as stated by Spanker these ****s would fight each other if no one else was around!
As i already stated the vast majority of this country are not bigoted, racist or violent, They want to coexist with their neighbours, enjoy life and live in peace. I include all colours ,religion and nationality in this majority even Mal
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In reply to Post #493
There are idiots on both sides , there are always the few that make it a bit lively ,but you and i both know that those lads you described as normal were out for a ruck , you joker you ,
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In reply to Post #492
The hunt is already on for the **** taking a piss by the memorial
A BBC reporter on the news channel said that it was possible that he didn't even realise it was there.
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In reply to Post #493
Just like people could for the BLM protests. But people clipped and cut and only posted the wrongdoings by the minority. It just so happens now that the shoe is on the other foot.
I’m still yet to see the same people on my social media moaning about this. Luckily I’ve a good memory and shall be calling them out on it at some point later on. Sole purpose of being a total pr*ck but maybe they’ll have a deep look inside to see why there criticised one and not the other whilst using the pandemic as a reason.
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In reply to Post #484
You joker spanky, no foot in mouth moment at all......for every video your showing I could supply one showing the other side of the story but can’t be bothered as it’s pointless!!
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In reply to Post #489
So there you go the written word can be interpreted in so many different ways 😀
Again claiming it wasn’t condemned appeared that no one in the public arena wasn’t! Two sides Priti Patel and Sadique Khan are 2 of note wh have spoken out about this. The hunt is already on for the **** taking a piss by the memorial to a brave police officer is on and he will be found the ****!!!!!!😡😡😡
I have seen pictures of all sides injured including police, ****ing shameful. Both sides have a lot to answer for and all should be named and shamed by their communities, friends and acquantecies.
And remember not all protesters are violent but those who are can be catorgorised as stupid, cowards or ****s 😡
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #484
I suppose 'normal' depends on who you usually spend your time with...
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In reply to Post #488
Yes but distancing at a closer distance than before so we can all go the pub
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In reply to Post #486
Ah, I said the anger compared between the two. I meant in the context of anger seen on social media about BLM protests and today’s whatever it was. A booze up by the looks of it!. This is where we must have crossed wires.
Basically not one single person on my Facebook feed that condemned the BLM protests for spreading the virus and whatever else has come out to condemn today’s events. That alone exposed their real motives for moaning about BLM, it’s clearly not due to the pandemic, it’s something else.
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In reply to Post #486
What he said
Now can we go back to social distancing please
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cant be the icf,they are either to fat and pissed to get out of their sofas, dead or banged up..
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In reply to Post #485
Once again misreading and text taking out of context. The use of violence is a no go and it doesn’t matter from what side it comes. As I stated used by cowards in a crowd who cry when isolated. You appeared to distance the BLM violence from today’s nasty abhorant scenes.
Condemnation is already underway from members of the government and others. Their will be a greater condemnation of this than last weeks events.
Both these sides seem to have forgotten or dismiss the pandemic and it’s fallout. Totally disgraceful by both sides at both events. It’s reminiscent of the 70/80s NF against ANL.
There is no defence of violence at either event and although I strongly object to today’s ****ing idiots, their viewpoint is now in tatters as much as the violence last week marred their message.
Today they believe they represent the patriotic, proud and inclusive British public but they don’t and any support they believe they may have had has just been flushed down the drain.
They are vile evil scum that have no place in society
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In reply to Post #477
I literally don’t get your point? And your attempt to insult or belittle me or whatever it is?
My point on that post was the fact that the same people that condemned the BLM protests ARENT condemning this idiocy. Mainly their reasoning was coronavirus. They are now being exposed as the gatherings today are just as dangerous of spreading it but they won’t condemn it. So they’ve been exposed as not supporting an equality movement but supporting the extreme far right.
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In reply to Post #481
Eyesight test wrong thread 😷
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In reply to Post #480
Maybe he needs an eyesight test.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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One witness said, “It’s all a bit strange. They keep saying they’re protecting a statue that’s in a box to protect it. They also seem to be attacking the police as a way of achieving this aim. It does seem strange as so many of these people have spent the week pretending to care about the welfare of horses however, I’m pretty sure chucking beer bottles at horses isn’t part of their welfare.”
Not to mention the Nazi saluting, swastika tattooed cretins there to protect Winston.
Absolute shower of **** tards and a national embarrassment.
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In reply to Post #478
He probably can’t even read. Thought it was a hydrant marker plate. He needs a good shoeing!
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #478
Saw that, what a cretin
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Have a look at the picture Tobias Elwood tweeted an hour or so ago.
Statue defender.
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In reply to Post #471
Mate you are totally clueless a violent protester is a violent protester doesn’t matter which side they come from. Doesn’t matter if they are from the left or the right they are all cowards in isolation and scream brutality if isolated. It doesn’t take much to spark an incident.
I doubt if you have ever been at a violent kick off of any kind. Once again you are following MSM who are, I can guarantee, at the centre of the incidents it’s funny how they always manage to be where it’s happening with 1,000s of demonstrators. This will be portrayed as a right wing bloodbath whilst last weekend it was a mainly peaceful protest with 27 police injured.
I in no way support these thick ignorant racist ****s and they don’t represent the society of the UK just as BLM don’t represent the society of the UK.
As already stated it looks like an ICF/Headhunters convention, I’m sure you can look that up if you don’t understand 😷😷😷
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #475
There’s people throwing punches, fireworks and bottles at the police. It’s all over social media and news pages.
Black or white, left or right, protestor or statue defender it doesn’t matter. They’re all wasting valuable oxygen and need sorting out.
Put some of those right wing mugs in jail alone surrounded by blacks, bet they’d soon pipe down
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Watching live it’s more lively at a WHU away game!!
Seems the bottle throwing started once the police charged the crowds and dished a few hits out with their batons.......
MSM must try harder to sell this bull**** to the masses.......
Looks like the police have stopped the trouble making racists in there tracks!!
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #470
Nor me.. I mean in the eyes of the rest of the world they are a representation of the English.
I didn’t agree with mass protest for blm at this time, but this bunch of overweight middle aged white blokes ‘giving it large’ to the police for no reason at all deserve the same as those destroying property and being violent last week.. execute the lot of em and broadcast it on the bbc, sick of repeats anyway
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #471
Wouldn't hold your breath mate...
Still there's a 5 o'clock curfew so no doubt they'll be heading off soon
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Police guarding the cenotaph........why?
Winston statue may have to go into a museum.........why?
How does racism and horses match up.......
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In reply to Post #470
The anger at these idiots today vs the anger at BLM protests is shocking.
The underlying racism in the country has been exposed.... those that said it never existed must be embarrassed now.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #462
They don't represent me mate
s
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Projectiles are horses now too...
Still yet to see the same people moaning about this mob...
Racists exposed
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In reply to Post #463
Spot on mate , exactly what I said to her earlier
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In reply to Post #464
At least with police wearing public order kit they can now wear head overs and face shields for some protection. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Anyone watching the CHAZ experiment in Seattle it is chaos!
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #463
Proctologists wear gloves ...
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In reply to Post #463
They knew the type that were going to turn out for this. They ain’t stupid.
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In reply to Post #463
Funny how someone that posts about people being coronavirus and then civil rights experts was all this time an expert on police tactics in public order situations.
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In reply to Post #461
Funny how the police have turned up mob handed to this with full riot gear etc but didn’t last weekend......SK is a proper ****!!!!
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #461
So embarrassing for us as a country to be ‘represented’ by these ****ing morons.
The rest of the world are actually seeing this
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Looks like the ‘statue defenders’ are chanting 10 German bombers (what does this have to do with defending statues?) and fighting with police, also broke a journalists nose. Social distancing out the window and not many masks either.
Wonder how many will condemn them though?? Haven’t seen anyone as of yet...media aren’t covering it... odd that the BLM protests people were very quick to condemn them though
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In reply to Post #459
just for you
https://www.facebook.com/DoubleDownNews/videos/289192778790355/
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In reply to Post #458
Vice versa.......
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In reply to Post #457
A perfect example of why you make me laugh Wayne
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In reply to Post #456
They look like normal people to me and people making a stand about the loony left wanting to change the face of the UK......
Am sure the MSM will report it differently though, bit like your comment spanky........
You can’t aim for a better future if your always stuck in the past!!
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getting lively in Whitehall , Tommy n his lads don't seem to have anyone to have a scrap with
https://www.facebook.com/RTnews/videos/3065931430119884/UzpfSTMyNjY4Mzk4NDQxMDpWSzozMDY1OTMxNDMwMTE5ODg0/
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It is impossible for a white person to understand black rage unless he or she is black.. That's why Biden's, "You ain't black" comment was wrong on so many levels. Racism against blacks should be looked at not as a black issue but as a white one. Whites need to confront every aspect of their inherent racism, even if they reject the idea that they might be in any way racist in the first place.
This explains the issue far better than anything I could do or say.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #453
Get out of the wrong side of bed scozza?
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In reply to Post #452
Semantics my arse. You don't half talk some bollox at times Mal
equality / fairness call it what you will. it's something we can strive for
You make me laugh, ain't that what a lot of people have said already?
America, democratic country same as here. Choices and options for ANYBODY so you can exploit these opportunities or sit on your arse and complain that everything and everybody is against you
Let them go to Russia or China and see what opportunities they get over there, we live in a free country ffs
I wasn't going to post again following the stupid.comment below from a man who is banging on a bout racism and then he comes out with a statement like he did about old folk
Which goes to show what I already know, people can play the race card when ever they like and a lot do. The other thing I know is that all people have alteria motives as proven below. It's fine if it fits MY map of the world ONLY
Should have been locked a while ago this for me
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #451
fair point - I use the same approach - it's semantics but - equal levels of respect? opportunity? support? any could apply.
equality / fairness call it what you will. it's something we can strive for
I guess the point is that there are still some people who will treat others less well based on prejudices and that is worth challenging
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In reply to Post #450
The MSM need to keep this going as the public has rejected there continual pokes at the way CV has been handled. The only person I know who buys newspapers is my dad and he only gets it for the crossword, he can’t stand crosswords in books they are wrong 😷 I don’t know anyone who now goes out of their way to watch the news or expose news shows 😡
Mal I was taught on many courses you don’t treat everyone equally you treat them according to their needs and always ask if they need help don’t assume they do! 👍🏻 A good adage that would work in society in general 😷😷😷
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In reply to Post #449
Channel 4 have just discovered and discussing a 1977 Bob Marley clip of him singing Burning and Looting how irresponsible to discuss it at this moment.
Mal
I hope for people to do a bit more / try a bit harder
They are going about it the wrong, 'little steps' rather than a week of media bombardment. If there's trouble this weekend that will be the focus and there may be regression than progress
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #446
Clever bloke that George Orwell
and that fishie too at times eh?
I agree with you - Joe Average (copyright tinhead) would probably say 'yeah that's me'.
Where I differ slightly is that, in this instance, I hope for people to do a bit more / try a bit harder. Being 'not racist' is a good start - but it's time for more people to be more proactive in challenging those who are - IMHO. Peacefully and reasonably like the demo today and in a way that promotes the positive message of equality for all.
I can do without Boris et al saying 'we can't censor history' whilst refusing to acknowledge that has been happening for centuries. Colston's plaque conveniently left out his slave trading - history censored. Lots of examples that need some redress and discussion and education can then be part of the process.
Another clever person said 'History is written by the victors' (maybe a slight paraphrasing there). It's true and there's no harm in telling the rest of the story in a fair society.
have a good evening fellas. I'm off to hurt my brain with some of scozzas 'bangers' on the 'listening' thread...
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Good to see so many statues fighting back.........
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In reply to Post #446
Top post Fishie you are describing Joe Average who I mentioned before.
I've said it before and I'll say it again opinionated people on here aren't mostly what you meet in the street
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In reply to Post #444
Mal not directly aimed at you but your reply button was nearest to where I was 😷
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” BLM 2020 or George Orwell 1984
And people are whinging about a ****ing trace and track app on their phone!
The population of this country, regardless of colour, is exhausted and unbelieving of the way 2020 is developing, they are the silent majority who are neither racist, care about a man breaking the lockdown, impressed by Forensic Keir Starmer or what statues represent. They are just worried about CV, will they have a job, when will they see friends and family again and a return to normality. But let’s not worry about them and pander to those that shout loudest.
Appeasement is not the way forward but listening, discussion and finding common ground is. If you force change it will be resented and rebelled against but if you explain and encourage change it will be received better and go farther.
Violence beget violence beget violence and so on to infinity
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Been plenty of advice by those prominent in the ‘urban’ scene to the young people that use violence daily (gang members) to not get drawn out by the right wing extremists and cause violence and to stay in their areas instead to protest.
End of the day you’ve got a load of extreme right wing people (these likely have the Proper racists of the country among them) going to London to most likely incite violence like they did the other day in Hertfordshire by shouting racist things at protesters. Problem is they will he met by gang members that use violence on a daily basis and aren’t at all afraid of stabbing or shooting someone. If it erupts it’ll end in a blood bath and a load of white men probably dead at the hands of gang members, a majority black. A race war will ignite, like a proper one.
What a time to be alive.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #443
well I'll have a little green box in the centre if that's ok?
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In reply to Post #442
that's it wayne - keep seeing the world in your little stereotype boxes - makes it easier to distinguish the 'us' and 'them' does it?
Yes it does, stereotyping people because of their political views is generally harmless for most apart from the easily offended brigade........
Hopefully the "Normals" turn up but i doubt it, Antifa and Tommys soldiers will no doubt ruin the day, shops and anything else they choose.......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #439
'typical lefties'
that's it wayne - keep seeing the world in your little stereotype boxes - makes it easier to distinguish the 'us' and 'them' does it?
let's hope it is your 'normal' people that turn out rather than those who have said they will be then. I'm sure we'll be able to watch it on the mainstream news and it won't be the usual rent a mob that arrive
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In reply to Post #440
Oi, I'm a centrist dad.
You want to be but the left is in you........
I reckon 90 % of people aren't bothered by that statue in Bristol getting pulled down.
Didnt bother me in the slightest......Didnt even know it existed
don't see anything wrong with Churchill having a statue, think the cenotaph should be respected and think racism is a bad thing.
All the above applies to me......
don't really mind if they can't stream Little Britain any more
Yes that does bother me........
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #439
Oi, I'm a centrist dad.
I reckon 90 % of people aren't bothered by that statue in Bristol getting pulled down, don't see anything wrong with Churchill having a statue, think the cenotaph should be respected, don't really mind if they can't stream Little Britain any more, and think racism is a bad thing.
It's the other ten percent that are the problem.
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In reply to Post #437
not what i wrote at all - far right groups are being encouraged to turn up (with your support as you have written) to 'defend' statues
You, Jon and spanky are typical lefties......You only hear what you want to hear.......
MSM media is saying Far right......normal people who are to the right could well be turning up but lets not go there.......which i do support, Not the FAR right like you say.......
Some poor bugger with his face spray painted bronze looking like a Charlie Chaplin statue in the hope of getting a few pound coins in his hat is going to be surrounded by a ring of Tommy's little soldiers and won't be able to go for a piss all day. I can see it happening.
Why would it be tommy's far right soldiers, perhaps its just normal people of the right......There voices need to be heard just like the left.......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Some poor bugger with his face spray painted bronze looking like a Charlie Chaplin statue in the hope of getting a few pound coins in his hat is going to be surrounded by a ring of Tommy's little soldiers and won't be able to go for a piss all day. I can see it happening.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #435
'Why are people who want Statues left as a reminder of previous mistakes far right facists FFS'
not what i wrote at all - far right groups are being encouraged to turn up (with your support as you have written) to 'defend' statues.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/10/far-right-protesters-plan-defence-of-statues-such-as-churchills
do you think they'll be sitting 2m apart on the coaches? will they wear their masks on the coach or just when they get off to cause trouble?
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In reply to Post #432
I'm not getting into the left and right and who shouts loudest, this should be a level of the playing field on all sides including the middle ground.
With the pandemic and its fallout this allows for a start of change economically and the reformatting of society.
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In reply to Post #433
Hoping for violence and conflict is stupid.
Correct......
I wonder how Churchill would feel about the 2020 versions of the far right fascists he fought against now being mobilised to 'defend' his statue?
Why are people who want Statues left as a reminder of previous mistakes far right facists FFS.........
EDIT - NOS thats usually the case.......selective hearing i think........
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In reply to Post #432
Pardon, can’t hear you.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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I wonder how Churchill would feel about the 2020 versions of the far right fascists he fought against now being mobilised to 'defend' his statue?
Hoping for violence and conflict is stupid.
fishie - stay safe fella
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In reply to Post #431
Thank you Fishie.......you right too......
Seems to me only the far left are aloud a voice at the minute and the right is silenced!!!!
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In reply to Post #424
Wayne i have got to agree with you it will be one almighty punch up! This country will descend into 1930's Germany with left versus right and deaths on both sides until one emerges as the victor.
What is needed now is LEADERSHIP and not from just Boris but all the parties. Come together stand shoulder to shoulder and condemn the violent protests on both sides.
The MSM have stoked the divisions in society and as with the pandemic they have run the country's agenda but throwing all blame onto the government and the public!
Politicians are just as bad, Labour MP's have just outed a minister for being the wrong type of BAME. That just about sums up the way this has evolved from a death in America to what we have now!
If you are going to protest lets protest against the control and trial by the Media outlets.
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In reply to Post #429
Are you thick......
I don’t know full well it will end in violence, it probably will because they will be airing their point of view.......I expect it will be the snowflake left that will instigate it!!
Left wants history removed from view with statues and TV programs etc etc. The right want them left Alone and TV programs too.......let the protests commence!
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #428
Eh? You hope the right attend, knowing full well it'll end in violence. No?
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In reply to Post #427
I thought you was good with English language, read it back a few times Jon.......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #426
Hope the right turn up to these protests to share there concerns......what’s good for one is good for another...... no doubt violence will erupt which is the way I can see this all going anyway!!!
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In reply to Post #425
Your like MSM Jon, is that what I said......NO
You can’t have lefties without balance like you lot have been saying over and over and over again!!
Right should turn up so there voice is also heard.......But that will no doubt lead to violence with paid Antifa around......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #424
You hope the right turn up because that will guarantee violence?
What a lovely bloke you are.
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In reply to Post #418
No different to you and spanky Mal......
Hope the right turn up to these protests to share there concerns......what’s good for one is good for another......no doubt violence will erupt which is the way I can see this all going anyway!!!
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In reply to Post #422
The media certainly have a lot to answer, latest is that we were too forceful telling people to lockdown and now some are too frightened to leave the house. No doubt there are a few people who feel this way but don't make it sound a bigger problem then it is Sorry wrong thread.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #421
some have done that tinhead and you are right - it's a very powerful image and I wish that's what was happening across all the protests
if only the news outlets would give equal time to that approach as they do to the violence.
edit - a rare moment of agreement with Boris in that the positive movement has been 'hijacked by extremists' who are intent on violence and vandalism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53011774 - also ridiculous
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In reply to Post #419
Kneeling on one knee 2m metres apart for nearly 9 minutes would apart from take up an enormous amount of area creating a big spectacle would be a very powerful message. It would also make it easier to weed out trouble makers
Will they do that?
No
Mal
Joe Average won't be impressed
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #419
Statue of Nelson Mandela also boarded up.
Far right groups being 'organised' to come together at the same time as the BLM protests and infiltrate peaceful rallies.
As said already - the idiots are exploiting a positive movement for their own ends. Make the whole thing into something it never was.
No excuses for damaging / defacing the names of the war dead.
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In reply to Post #418
Sorry chaps but my blood is boiling
I have just seen pictures of contractors boarding up the Cenotaph in Whitehall.
The Cenotaph is a monument to all the people who died in 2 World Wars and other conflicts since. This monument does not discriminate between race, colour, sex or age and is a monument to people who gave their lives or had their lives taken away. We now have to protect a monument that stands out as a beacon against racism, oppression and hatred.
Watch the remembrance day ceremonies and the multi-cultural showing of respect, sadness and admiration for what the previous generations sacrificed for not just for GB, but for the world.
Peaceful protest if you must at a time where the Pandemic is slowly being eradicated but be prepared to take the consequences if you catch it and spread it to your mates, family and neighbours. Do not desecrate a monument of this stature, it didn't enslave, discriminate or denigrate any nation race or culture.
But I'm sure someone will defend the desecration as for a just cause, Shame on them!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #408
as opposed to the usual talking out of your backside?
too easy that one
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In reply to Post #410
I’m sure they do spanky.......right is right.....
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In reply to Post #415
You have a point. It's mostly the strong opinionated who tend to gather in these threads. Probably best they stay here and not venture into the main part of the forum?
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Why are all these threads turning into left Vs right, you lot are getting so boring going around and around and around.
Why don't you all just go out fishing or something and stop looking at this forum for a month or two.
It's getting boring and predictable.
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Oops wrong thread
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Make Britain great again , anyone want to put meaning to that chestnut ! and who was it great for ? there are some on here that really need to wake up and question why they have the ideology they do and who benefits from it , you've been had !
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In reply to Post #409
Maybe not a deliberate strategy but the outcome could be the same?
In reply to Post #407
That can only be one person...………….Magoo
In reply to Post #411
Which is the reason he has long periods of no one calling in. Boring
Not a problem but the first part of your reply should be to #399
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In reply to Post #403
The point isn’t to remove things that remind people of slavery, it’s removing monuments that glorify those involved in the slave trade and other despicable acts, criminal or not.
Edit: James O’Brian is very funny. If you listen to some of the call ins, the people ain’t got a clue what they are talking about so he takes the piss whilst trying to show them they literally have no clue on the subject. If you’re uninformed and want to try and make your point, prepare to be schooled by someone that does know their stuff. Simple as that. You’re going to get f*cked!!
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In reply to Post #408
I don't think that many people hear much from your mouth , your foot is always in it !
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Has it becoming strategy to take things too far and loose public sympathy for the cause , give the idiots a bit of amo !
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In reply to Post #406
Similar to the left......they don’t want to hear your opinion, they want to hear their opinion out of your mouth!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #406
hmmmmm
he sounds familiar!
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In reply to Post #405
No far from it, it's one of those call in shows but you're not allowed to disagree with him as he will belittle you.
Get's to the point where he's waiting for callers to call in and no one bothers so he just waffles on.
He also swallows dictionaries, uses long pretentious words to make himself to look clever. Knob
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #404
is he racist too?
never listened to LBC so i'm not aware of him
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In reply to Post #402
I'd like to see James O'Brien on there to see if he gets away on TV what hew does on the radio.
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In reply to Post #401
Both could be considered as reminders of slavery? Pyramids were built by slaves. Slaves were killed in the Coliseum Rome.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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I expect Farage will be back on Question Time next week.
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In reply to Post #399
please explain how you have come to this conclusion regarding pyramids and coliseums ?
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In reply to Post #398
They could do with getting rid of James O'Brien if you don't agree with him then he will belittle you live on air.
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The pyramids need to be flattened the coliseums need to go aswell oh and that rodent of a man sadiq Khan
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In reply to Post #396
Forced resignation type deal. Contract was almost up and told him they won’t renew it and asked him to step down early. According to LBC anyway.
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In reply to Post #395
Farage will not be a loss, don't like him or the way he conducts himself, but be careful as he will now probably claim martyr status for his views. Its like deplatforming him.........
"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It"
the basis of democracy and a free society
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #395
was he sacked or did he goose step down?
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In reply to Post #393
There's definitely a putrid stench around now
Gammon, perhaps...?
In other news, racist Nazi bigot Fartage has lost his job. Oh dear, How sad, Never mind.
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In reply to Post #393
Oh, that's not very nice is it? #bekind to yourself sir.
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In reply to Post #392
There's definitely a putrid stench around now
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In reply to Post #391
This Australian get's it....
watch vid
The miasma of white liberalism must have been overwhelming!
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In reply to Post #390
There should be no tit for tat, everyone I see posting agrees that racism needs stamping out. Different views how that's all.
Regards armchairs, I play in a CoD team over the winter's, have done for years. The last 3/4 years the racist rants and comments have spiraled upward. We just mute the other team once it starts. Americans are the worst to play against for it, unbelievably vile.
Out of the armchair I help with a Sunday league footy team my nephew manages. It's a great laugh most of the time. We had one mixed race kid of 17 last couple of season's, brilliant player stand's out head and shoulders above the rest. The hammer he gets from certain opposition is awful. We've had more red cards for fighting as the lads stand up for him than for anything else. He's moved up a few levels this winter to the paid ranks. Hope it's better for the kid in that environment.
In my upper tier Stretford End armchair I've heard very little racism for several years
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In reply to Post #387
i think this is a misunderstanding on both sides, you and me, you say about 200 and counted 100!. its like the pictures of the beaches from one angle in the media everyone was sitting on everyone else's towel for a front page grab you headline and in the local paper a picture from a drone showed everyone at least 2 metres from everyone.
You get idiots from all sides and the media love to hunt them down and portray them as a reflection of society, eg all black youths are in gangs and running county lines, all young white youths are left leaning encompass all races, middle England is all gammons, i could go on and on.
The media, public role models and politicians want to box everyone into their stereotypical bubbles as its easier to control and dominate. You are now seeing the erasure of history, the control of TV and films and next it will be literature and then rules put in place to make people comply to the narrative they want. Sound familiar Stalin, Mao and Hitler!
In relation to your last paragraph i am not trying to spin anything or condone anything. Both you and I were not there, but if you was I stand corrected, you are basing your opinion on 2nd hand writing and hearsay evidence.
I am not trying to justify or spin it, but thanks for stereotyping me as a part of the issue, you have assumed what I am and you are as bad as those abusing each other over race, sex or sexual orientation. You are now part of the issue!
And with that i am stepping back from this thread to leave all the armchair pundits to carry on the tit for tat slanging matches that this has become.......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #385
Hey greekskii
I think you answered your dilemma already when you said it was the Daily Mail....
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In reply to Post #384
They are removing a statue of Baden Powell in Bournemouth the founder of the Scout movement which has done so much good IMO.
Reason is he has been ACCUSED of racism, homophobia and support for Adolf Hitler.
Let's hope it's only temporary or If we carry on they'll be nothing left of our heritage
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In reply to Post #386
Think you misunderstood. The protest was happening and the group of white men, yes about 200 as there is a picture you can count at least 100 on, approached them. My point being the media can’t even call what they said racist without trying to downplay it. That is exactly what’s wrong with this country because millions of people will read that and now think it’s not really racist to tell people to “go back to Africa”
Ignoring the point of things is rife in British society, just pick out the bits you want to talk about and spin.
Large group of White men were racist AND sexist to Black women who were peacefully protesting BLM, Witt social distancing. Spin it whatever way you want that’s what happened. Trying to justify or excuse it simply means you’re part of the issue.
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In reply to Post #385
Mate don’t believe the media outlets they wouldn’t have a story if they didn’t embellish it. 200 people it was probably 50 with the odd comment. Yes these 50 are as bad as the people fighting over the weekend but to be honest why would a single BLM girl approach these people. It was probably race baiting by the journalists. I am not defending the 50 just pointing out what can happen. It’s probably me but the the more Older you get the more cynical or is it realist you get or a mixture of both!
This will now turn into a left versus right argument the thoughts and meanings of the initial peaceful protests will be lost and the emancipation, closing of old wounds and coming together for a better fairer society will be a sideline as the years old ideaologies will fight for control, whilst the numpties in parliament from all sides sit back and rub their hands in glee doing **** all and virtue signalling to appear to keep themselves relevant!
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In reply to Post #382
Throw in media racism or whatever you want to call it. Article in the mail yesterday about a peaceful BLM protest being targeted by 200 white men apparently ‘defending’ the town statue.
Shouting abuse such as “get your tits out”, “are you on your period” and most disgracefully “go back to Africa” at the majority female protestors. Do you know how the mail described it. They put racist in apostrophes!!! Racist is what it was. Using apostrophes implies it isn’t actually racist, I mean wtf?
You had racist people saying racist things and the media outlet told the masses that the racist statement wasn’t really racist. And there apparently isn’t systemic racism in the country? That’s gone through multiple people before being printed. Either they are racist themselves over at the mail or just plain stupid (probably this one!)
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Being patriotic is now a bad thing it seems crazy times why is it only white guilt should excise if you look back in history the majority of countries have some bad history keep the statues as they were put there for the good they done not the bad.
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In reply to Post #380
Excellent post fishie.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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one of the grey areas in between...
(not just my hair)
a few weeks ago, Matt Hancock promised that 'in the next few days' he and the Home Secretary would sort out the end of the NHS surcharge for migrant workers in the NHS and care sector. Nurses, Doctors, Surgeons, Care staff etc. charged hundreds - sometimes over £1000 - for the right to access NHS services. Regardless of the fact that they pay their tax and NI contributions already.
like many of Mr Hancock's promises, it's a broken one as the charge is still being asked for of these workers today...
it shouldn't have been there in the first place of course
Not a uniquely BLM problem but one of those underlying issues that feed the discourse of a society with systematic racism...
food for thought maybe
have a good evening all
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In reply to Post #380
You are 100% what Wayne would class as a snowflake.
I never said all old people... just more of the older generation. There’s a difference between the two. One means ALL of them. Ones means SOME of them, more than the younger generation as you can see the stats for.
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In reply to Post #376
Sorry for the rant but it just shows how easy it is to take offence. Written words can be interpreted many different ways and not all in their intended format. Same as the spoken word.
And there you go again the oldies are casual unknowing racists and the younger generation are all encompassing great guys and girls. Step away from the media stereo types, society is not that straight forward it’s not black and white there are many, many shades of grey in between.
This whole situation has now been managed into 2 factions to keep the arguments going and keep the masses at each other. It’s working and nothing has changed or will change until open frank conversations take place with everyone hanging up their egos and preconceived ideas at the door.
It’s like this thread backwards and forwards and not really going anywhere 🤷🏼♂️
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Completely obvious to me , the most racist people i know seem to be from the older generation , it was accepted as the norm throughout the majority of their lives and you are always going to get the easily influenced idiots who want a scrap !
Blame the immigrants , part of the ideology of populist nationalism , maybe done in a slightly more subtle way here in the UK when compared to the USA Brazil or India , but it's there and it's undeniable , don't blame us for the economic downturn, it's because of them and we will show you how tough we are going to be on them by deporting these illegal's which they knew were not illegal's ie , the windrush scandal , utterly despicable ! around 1200 have still to receive the compensation that was promised
statistics .
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In reply to Post #377
I’m only going on the “snowflake” generation premise that many of you seem to have. In my life I’ve met more people over the age of 50 that hold racist views, however mild than I have younger people. So going off my own personal experience this is what will happen. How many young people are out there baying first blood over BLM? And many are older? How many have that token racist aunt or uncle...yknow that’s older than them?
Can you lot not understand simple things, like seriously? If someone dies there’s less people. If 15 million people die there is less people. No one is born racist. So the babies that replace them by default aren’t racist. So There is less racist people. Duck me
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My point being that when the older generation die off you’re left with a lower number of racist people
My last post in this thread, i think we are going round in circles. You may need to read that again and seriously think about it. Is that not discrimination? the kind of thing we’re all discussing here!
Maybe Covid 19 will make all your wishes come true
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In reply to Post #371
No I’m saying they should be educated because currently they aren’t. That’s why people have no understand of why others are offended by certain things, and how hypocritical statements can sound at times. The curriculum doesn’t teach children British history properly. It skips the bad bits, that is why there is loads of misconceptions.
And to fishie... same thing with everyone generalising they “snowflake” generation. But you missed my point and took offence. I never called every old person racist. I just mean the older generation have a higher number of racist people in it due to many factors. Most of it purely not even knowing they are being racist. Things like “I hope it’s not a black guy” referring to your daughters new boyfriend. Stuff like that. My point being that when the older generation die off you’re left with a lower number of racist people, if going by the premise of others as young people being “snowflakes”, coupled with education and people calling it out when they see/hear it. It’ll disappear.
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In reply to Post #374
No need to apologise, anybody for me. I think you covered the point perfect. It’s certainly NOT a blanket to tar everybody with it’s all individual circumstances and experiences that’s why it will be so difficult to tackle sadly
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In reply to Post #371
Education is the way forward, once is out in the open it can be discussed, dissected and lessons learned.
Sorry for ranting tonight but this is close to my heart and having been abused by both sides for having a dual heritage daughter it get my blood boiling by people in public and media who have no idea and I’m including both sides in this 👍🏻
My missus will probably ban me again 😷
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In reply to Post #369
Sorry about this but
Don’t talk ******** the older generation , you have just stereotyped my parents and I. They grew up in the war years suffered depravation and lived through a period that we can’t imagine or would want to endure. I am a stepfather to a dual heritage daughter, grandson and great grandson. Going by your stereotyping myself and my parents would have nothing to do with her. Have a guess who inherits their house when they die and it’s not me or my wife. You have just shown how innocently you have made a statement and casually branded a few genarations as racist without even realising it , inequality is different for every person not a blanket coverall
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In reply to Post #370
Democracy is being undermined by party politics heavily influenced by big business.
Multiple options complicate things too much, 2 camps is far easier to control, to play one off against the other.
Social media makes it so much easier to funnel the populace down into one of two camps, by clever marketing of the "choices" presented, and it's a huge captive market, there for the taking.
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In reply to Post #369
Wow, that’s some rant
Is not educating the kids the way forward or have I misinterpreted your rant?
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In reply to Post #367
This is the whole point you don’t have to be in either camp, you may have views from both sides and that is why we live in a democracy and not a totalitarian state.
Everyone of those protesters is wearing an item of clothing that has come from a sweatshop somewhere in the world where conditions are bad and to be quiet honest slave labour. If they are not wearing something they are using something ie smartphones, computers etc ... and the likes built by workers abroad on their minimum wage which is probably horrendous, not our minimum wage! People are still trafficked across the world and you can read that as slave labour. People on both sides of the argument need to hold their hands up and admit this as well.
It’s not black versus white it’s every person against every person regardless of ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation. I would place big money of every adult person in this country has made a derogatory comment about someone else whether it be colour, sexual orientation, size, age or even the colour hair or lack of. Their are no innocents in this and I include myself in this to be honest.
I can not control history but I can acknowledge it’s faults and also it’s pluses. Educate, acknowledge and explain is the way forward and things can change but it’s not a quick fix. Rabid mobs cannot dictate the way society heads or what they think the direction we should be travelling.
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I’m just glad the majority of inequality will die out with the older generations. If the ‘snowflakes’ love a fair and equal world then give it 70yrs and it’ll be them here not the people scared of a better world.
P.s. no one is trying to erase history. If you remove a statue the history of that person and what they were involved with doesn’t just disappear in to thin air. It still exists. Just not as a statue. It’s in books, tv, etc.
Maybe they could put it in the national curriculum so EVERY child learns about it. Slavery, the empire, the real WW2 story (including Russia) and all the other stuff. I’m sure teaching kids about the Boer war, Churchill’s actions in India and how Britain wasn’t first in to Germany would really go a long way in terms of society having a much more accurate knowledge of British history and world events.
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In reply to Post #367
Social media has got a LOT to answer for and I don’t think we fully understand the effects and the magnitude as yet. Brainwashing material that will have a SERIOUS psychological impact longer term
I don’t want to divert from the topic but kids looking at porn whilst underage, murders, beheadings, you name it. Not to mention ganging up and bullying, there are kids taking their lives, absolutely way out of control imho, disgraceful
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In reply to Post #365
Social media makes it massively worse because now people are pressured into taking a stance one way or the other, you need to visibly align yourself to a cause quickly because to say nothing and not jump straight on the bandwagon now is seen as supporting "the other side" anyway.
People are expressing allegiances based on media presented options - "If you're not THIS then you must be THAT" "You don't want to be known as THAT do you?" "pick a box!"
And once you pick one it's a brave person who's happy to recant and lose face so publicly.
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In reply to Post #363
Made me laugh that
I see the author is J. Corbin?
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In reply to Post #364
Great post but unfortunately both sides want admit any faults.
And as always the media stirring, omitting and pulling peoples chains for reactions.
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In reply to Post #363
Just another factor in the equation.
Each “side” clings to the blame of certain factors as the only cause when the reality is when you look at all the factors none of them are the cause in isolation.
They’re all propping each other up like a house of cards.
Each side conveniently ignoring half the evidence.
This media whipped emotional s**tstorm is doing nothing of use to anyone.
Until both sides start acknowledging and addressing the problems in their own camps nothing will ever change.
Looks like at least in the short term some change is coming, let’s hope it does’t lose momentum and that both sides will keep the emotion out of the conversation and all the facts in it.
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I think this study carries some weight , especially why people can fear change and be susceptible and manipulated by right wing ideology and no , it's not having a dig at certain people and obviously there will be exceptions !
link .
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Absolutely nothing has changed over the last 300 years.........If you can be arsed search up the latest series of "A House Through Time" which follows a particular house and it's occupants from the earliest known records. In this latest one, (ironically in Bristol given recent events) it starts in 1720 and over the two episodes i have seen so far it has covered off........ racism, riots, protests, looting, corrupt politics, pandemic disease, prostitution, bigamy, police brutality, wife beating, substance abuse, gang fights, abject poverty, anarchy, piracy.....etc etc......
Any of that sound familiar.....?
Take down the statues of those that now bring shame but remember that if it wasn't for some, none of us would be here......Churchil has been vilified in recent reports but he defended the world against the biggest racist of them all who would have slaughtered millions....
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In reply to Post #349
I will sleep well Jon, no changes for me personally......but the left is trying it’s hardest to gain back ground from the right!!
Everyone is given the same opportunity from school, you either make something of yourself from it or skip most classes and then blame the current system, lack of equal opportunity, racism, religious hatred etc etc etc.....complete bull****!
Decide what you want and go for it, or sit on your arse and moan.
Of now for an afternoon nap wondering what might of been if I hadn’t skipped so many classes......
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In reply to Post #359
Stop with the jollity in this thread your dragging it down and making it relevant
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In reply to Post #356
You’re thinking of St Ewart’s Hall, Dulwich College, where it is rumoured that a certain former pupil spent his time reciting Hitler Youth songs when, long before the internet, it was really quite hard to find the lyrics.
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In reply to Post #357
As with children tell them to do something its done begrudgingly but encourage them to do it and they will do it with glee
The media has caused so much division in society in recent years its unforgivable. But good news travels in a slower lane than bad!
I was watching the news updates on the internet by the BBC and SKY on the london protest. Just after the violence started on SKY the BBC live updates closed, said goodnight and they would be back tomorrow
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #355
Sorry about your dad mate - my best wishes of course.
On thread - Thousands more peaceful protesters than riots / vandalism both here and in the US, but that doesn't make for sexy news does it? The trouble last week with the police horse etc.was after the main protest but that line was thrown away by the newscasters.
I'm happy to alienate far right white supremacists.
But you are right that the 'general public' need to see the positive aspects of this movement. It feels different than before. It feels like more people see the importance and more people are supportive. Hopefully the idiots who will look to undermine it all won't become the focal point.
Jon - very funny
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #354
Stuart Hall?
Another National Trust property built with the profits from the slave trade I expect.
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In reply to Post #353
not for this thread but I was a blanker ****er
Dad was home a day and collapsed again the next day so back to hospital so not good
Back on thread
Discrimination leads to positive discrimination leads to discrimination leads to positive discrimination..... Both have to go to provide equilibrium Its not an overnight repair and I do not believe that todays society is as broken as its made out to be!
But with the mob rule shown last weekend will only rile people and next it will be the right wing out counter protesting and protecting statues. The message and feeling will now move from its initial valid protestations into a left/right power struggle and the message will be forgotten.
They lost the general public when the first missile was thrown, the first punch connected and the first horse harmed. Its now moved onto censoring TV programmes and films, companies supporting the sentiment but then again to late and i cynically think its free advertising and arguments over historical monuments.
How does this help heal the cracks in society, it alienates one to embrace another, when all should be embraced!
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In reply to Post #351
Can we stop mentioning ‘It’s a Knockout‘? Uncomfortable reminders of Stuart Hall and the Duke of York.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #350
Hiya Fishie
first off - did you catch anything?
I'm in absolute agreement with what you say about the statues. I've posted already on it (maybe too many times as there's a count apparently). Remove them properly and safely, document it and use the whole exercise - and this time in history - as a way of teaching / learning about the sins of the past and how in 2020 the world has changed in attitudes to slavery and oppression. You'll find that most sensible people are saying the same thing - nobody, least of all the ancestors of those who were slaves - wants that history forgotten (although the Scots professor on the news the other night did suggest that those with racist attitudes might want to deny it but for their own agenda).
I also like that quote. 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' It's really good - Churchill adapted it for a speech.
In terms of levelling up - if you level up one side then you can create your equality. If that was to happen there would be no need for positive discrimination. Until that happens, unfortunately there is the need. That applies to race, gender, various inequalities. Then hopefully moving forward you increase the level of both sides at the same rate and at the same time and we all benefit.
Agreed about the politicians too - I posted on the coronavirus thread while you were on wife imposed exile
Have a good day man - hope your dad is well
edit - sorry scozza, got in there too quick!
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In reply to Post #350
Mal if you level up one side you have to level up is both sides so get rid of discrimination you have to remove positive discrimination. Both of these moveable feasts are not an overnight cure that people believe it could be.
Well said, lock the thread quick
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Can we stop saying 'slippery slope'?
Every time I read it I think of 'It's a Knockout' and sing the tune in my head for a bit, which is annoying.
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In reply to Post #342
I'm back :0
we're on the slippery slope to a fairer society... woooahhh..... watch out everyone!
Mal if you level up one side you have to level up is both sides so get rid of discrimination you have to remove positive discrimination. Both of these moveable feasts are not an overnight cure that people believe it could be.
A scenario Boris wants to hire 20,000 new police officers, to provide a reflection of the populace, does he only employ BAME candidates to the exclusion of all others, is that racism or postive discrimination? or does he empoly those who will be good at it whether they be BAME, White or other?
We now have mob rule over the statue, de platforming and censoring of media, that is a slippery slope. Dare i mention Stalin, Mao and Hitler all used mob rule, de platforming and censoring of media. As the quote if you don't learn from the lessons of history you will repeat the mistakes (probably wrong wording but the sentiment is good).
I don't give a **** that statue in Bristol and if others are removed but do the removals democratically and in a balanced way. Who decides what are removed and the criteria for removal? History is there, don't deny it but learn from it!
I heard on the radio driving home that Sir Keir Starmer and his team have released a picture of them taking the knee, its only a week to late in my opinion. If you wanted to do it, do it when its relevant as per Barry Gardiner (although he's a pratt for his ignorance of social distancing, etc...) not when they think it gains them the most political advantage for them!
Its was a good 48 hours away from internet access
Edit.... please everyone thinking of marching, protesting or fighting this weekend we are still in a COVID 19 pandemic and still to many are getting infected and dying, so be safe out there!
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #348
Take it easy Wayne. Try to sleep at night. Look out for that slippery slope.
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Cheers for the replies.........
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #343
of course society isn't fair
I mean we haven't even got the MOWO awards ffs!
if you really want that then maybe the BBC Proms is for you. Although I do hear that they've gone a bit snowflake lately and started playing music by people from different ethnicities....
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #345
anti - you racism, surely?
'White folk being just as disadvantaged as any other ethnic group, but not going on about it all the time' sort of thing.
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In reply to Post #344
a victim......of what??
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #343
You just look like you're desperately trying to find something that you can use to paint yourself as a victim.
Is the acceptability or otherwise of a music category that doesn't exist but you've invented the best you can do?
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In reply to Post #342
we're on the slippery slope to a fairer society.
Only if you initially think its unfair now.......
I know what and why the MOBO was created, My question was would it be acceptable to name an event MOWO.....
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #340
we're on the slippery slope to a fairer society... woooahhh..... watch out everyone!
the MOBO's haven't happened since 2017 but were due to return this year. probably not now with C-19 etc. no good reason not to have them next year if gigs etc. are allowed again
the awards were set up to promote black and urban artists who were more often than not, on independent and smaller labels that weren't considered for the BRIT's who only selected artists from a predetermined selection of labels (the British Record Industry Trust - hence the acronym). In much the same way, there are the NME awards for 'Indie' bands and the Kerrang awards for rock / metal etc. They all saw an imbalance in the popular music awards and set out to redress it in their own way.
tinhead - another good point. Robert Plant has talked a lot about the influence of the old blues artists on Led Zep. Not sure if white appropriation equals black origin though...
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In reply to Post #339
Quite possibly, my Point is do you Think you could have an event nowadays called MOWO or would it be classed as racist?
Next it will be ban the colour white, you can no longer can get white goods......slippery slope!!
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #336
A slippery slope to what? Admitting that plenty of people from history were involved in questionable actions and had ideas that would be unacceptable nowadays? Sounds terrifying.
If that statue in Bristol had a plaque explaining who he was and what he did, then no-one would have thought of pulling it down. As it was, the local council refused to put any such sign up.
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In reply to Post #338
Much white music especially rock music has roots going back to the blues so maybe that's MOBO?
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In reply to Post #337
MOBO is fine but can you imagine now trying to organise an event called the MOWO.......totally unacceptable.......
Lots of Facebook pages being pulled at the minute because there offensive, SKA music etc.......
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I wonder if the Black Music awards will still be going ahead.
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In reply to Post #328
I’m not scared but think my children should be!
It starts with street names, then statues, then programs......it’s a complete over reaction IMO. Like I said, once you go down this route of trying to undo history rather than the learns from it it’s a slippery slope.
Mock as much as you like Mal, you have an opinion and I have mine doesn’t mean either of us are right......
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In reply to Post #333
333 comments and 97 of those from just two people.
Says a lot.
But what two people.
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Compared to the rest of the forum these type of threads only attract a small audience and the people on here generally have strong opinions.
Just because people don’t have strong opinions doesn’t necessarily make them idiots, stupid or ignorant but as I mix with people (maybe you do as well?) whom the majority don't have strong opinions I’m picking up that these steps are accelerating far too quickly for most. Now because most of you write eloquently on here you’ll be able to come back and dismiss all of this but as they are not on this forum it won’t be heard.
Don't leave people behind and alienate those you want on your side
Slow but steady wins the race
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In reply to Post #331
I did hear that the BNP were criticising PG Tips for exploiting black actors in their old adverts...
That's a cracker, Mal. LMFAO
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #330
I'd say it was unbelievable but unfortunately....
I did hear that the BNP were criticising PG Tips for exploiting black actors in their old adverts...
(that's how you do subversion Mr Walliams)
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I see #Boycott Sainsbury;s is trending. Yesterday is was #Boycott Yorkshire Tea and #Boycott PG Tips...
Why? Because Sainsbury's, Yorkshire Tea and PG Tip have come out as publicly supporting BLM.
Yes! Seriously. You couldn't make it up.
Just off to buy some tea from my local branch of my favourite supermarket.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #327
a world where people are treated equally regardless of ethnicity is only scary to those who prefer the inequality - likely because it means they won't be top of the pile anymore...
and street names? that's your big worry? would you be happy to bring up your kids on Hitler Avenue? we know you find the Holocaust a joke...
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #327
You sound very scared Wayne.
What exactly are you scared of? A road where you don't live having its name changed? Why?
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In reply to Post #325
The world has been making small steps for hundreds of years!
What the world is becoming is a scary thought, I mean there is people entertaining the idea of changing street names FFS.......history is exactly that, we live and learn but what some people want nowadays is a complete joke!
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #324
We are heading for a dull sanitised snowflake world, wouldn't be surprised if usually tolerant people will get restless.
I'm sure that was written on the wall of the Colosseum when they ditched the gladiators
All the satirical comedy on TV is simply people taking the piss out of people in power, mostly elected politicians, but some unelected bureaucrats - lots of power either way.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #323
Yeah good point Jon
When one is dealing with racists then intelligence is lacking. Their perception of some of that 'comedy' (that's subjective - I don't find ANY of little Britain funny) is different than a more intelligent viewer.
I can see both sides to the argument. Shows like 'mind your language' were just taking the p out of different racial stereotypes. Maybe little Britain is being cleverer than the dumb racists and it's an attempt to subvert things and laugh at the outdated attitudes. Who knows? Given the wider context (Matt Lucas and the 'only gay in the village' is the clear example) it seems more likely. The problem remains with the less intelligent nasty element who just laugh at the racism.
4 lions is a similar example, but Chris Morris has a long history of subverting prejudices and is - imho- far better at it than walliams and Lucas.
In other news - literally - I've just seen my old Drama school on the news apologising for their systematic racism and vowing to make changes
Like it or not, positive things are happening. Tinhead said it, small steps. We are making a good start.
Edit - stop complaining about snowflakes. Surely they are ideal for racists -( not you tinhead.)
I mean, they are white, they don't come from hot countries, if you get enough of them together then you can cover up a multitude of sins and make the whole place white...
Edit 2 - I see Trump has found new low levels to sink to. Do you think the White House staff try to confiscate his phone at night?
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We are heading for a dull sanitised snowflake world, wouldn't be surprised if usually tolerant people will get restless.
Would love to hear some Prince Andrew jokes
As for taking the piss out of people with power aren't there comedy programmes where this happens?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #321
Wayne, you sound like some old bloke in the corner of the pub in the 80s complaining about Bernard Manning being taken off.
I don't think Little Britain was offensive, but who am I to judge? Things move on, the world continues to turn. Lots of comedy (not Bernard Manning) wasn't intended to be offensive. The Alf Garnet character was supposed to be ridiculous himself, bit like the Al Murray pub landlord. The problem is that many people are so thick they actually agreed with the ludicrous characters and used them to reinforce their racist ideas.
Matt Lucas playing the self-important woman running the fat club who talks down to an Asian woman and says 'I didn't understand a word...' when the Asian woman speaks, is Matt Lucas taking the piss out of middle aged white self-important women, which is what they intended and not a problem.
People doing the voice and telling Asian people 'I didn't understand a word...' in Tesco the next day is the problem.
How about people just taking the piss out of people with more power, and leaving those with less power alone?
Anyone got any Prince Andrew jokes?
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In reply to Post #320
if that's what you mean. yes
knocking stuff down that was built by slaves No I was thinking is there any statues of people linked to slavery in Rome
The only reason it came to mind was they were talking about food in ancient Rome on the tv
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In reply to Post #320
Jon, A lot of the black americans spoken to were referencing the fact they were slaves and have been oppressed ever since. hence the aggression and rioting! Things have changed massively over the last 400 years but its still very much at the heart of things!
My point is the world is going mad, I mean removing Little britain and Bo selecta etc under scrutiny is taking things to far IMO..........millenial snowflakes are the next generation and their pandering to anything and everything is taking the world down a very slippery slope. We may as well ditch comedians, jokes of any kind etc etc Where do you draw the line?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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There was a big BLM demo in Rome at the weekend, if that's what you mean.
I don't think anyone's talking about knocking stuff down that was built by slaves, are they?
I doubt the labourers on Stone Henge had a union rep...
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Genuine question Rome was built upon slavery is there any talks or protests going on there?
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In reply to Post #317
What’s up spanky........point 1 or point 2?
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In reply to Post #316
Wouldn't expect anything else from you Wayne !
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I wonder when the pyramids of Giza will be taken down as these were built by slaves!
Doing a bit of a research and it would appear there was plenty of black slave masters in the US too......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #312
I like the idea by Colstons fellow Bristolian Banksy. Get it back out the Avon and remodel it back on it's plinth.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #312
He was introduced as Scotlands first black professor. That in itself tells a story I suppose.
He made a very similar point to yours when you said about removing them but not destroying them and instead using their existence and subsequent removal as a start point for education about past atrocities.
It is a really good point. Documenting their removal and explaining why is important. Like the Berlin Wall coming down. That footage is used as a stimulus for studying modern European history.
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A lot of protests today about removing statues. One black man on the tv said it was a bad idea as it removed the evidence of what went on all those years ago, he's got a point.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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RIP George Floyd
Have a good day and stay positive fellas
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BB
Thanks for Thomas Sowell
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In reply to Post #308
I totally agree. It starts with education and dealing with the fact they will experience people that hold racist views in their lives and how to identify it and the right education to be able to question that, in the or own minds and make the own decisions but be fully informed before they do.
Like I said, society is racist by proxy, because racists exist and they are in all parts of society. From the poorest of the poor, to the richest of the rich. It’s not that society is all completely racist, but a part of it is and not doing enough to remove those individuals from their platforms and just say “it’s a minority so it’s not that bad” isnt good enough. Imagine doing that with terrorism or sexism or whatever else. When the majority does not stop the minority it is an issue.
That quote is what people are asking - why the majority didn’t stop the minority vandalising monuments this weekend. Well why don’t the majority stop the minority being racist? There’s too much irony involved in a lot of the anger that goes around.
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In reply to Post #307
I realised that and edited my post but you said it, 71% could be being racially abused by one person, obviously that is not the case but your sweeping statement that society is racist is in my opinion untrue, you seem to have had a bad go of things because as I have said I haven't had any racist comments made against me for so long I can barely remember, I have of course heard people make racist comments and am probably guilty of 'letting it go' but I do think we are more in an age where people have said and indeed I have said to people when they have made sexist or racist comments that you cant say that sort of stuff, its not acceptable, we still have a long way to go because there are people out there who are blatantly racist, sexist...angry people who are even hate-ist! if that's a word? But seriously I do think the ease with which we can comment and abuse online and through social media does have a lot to do with it and the world does seem to be an angrier place these days, question..... where does the innocence of a child turn to hatred and bigotry? After all no one is born racist
Oh and this is interrupting my dinner.....final post
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In reply to Post #305
You’re interpreting the data wrongly but coming across the true meaning of it in your own words. 71% of people could experience racism from one singular person. Still 71% have been subject to racism. It doesn’t mean 29% of the population isn’t racist. Just that 71% of those surveyed have been subject to racism of some form. Whether it’s being physically attacked, verbally (this has so many different levels to it), refused entry to a club, not given a job, all because of your race.
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In reply to Post #303
I think society is racist. But that’s solely the fact that racists exist amongst society. It doesn’t mean everyone is but as I explained in a previous post, be it a teacher, police, politicians, business owner, bouncer or whatever profession, chef, sport team manager or whoever, has the ability to cause inequality or teach and impart inequality to others. That is how racism exists in our society. You then have the racist sympathisers who don’t stand up against it, or ignore it. I’m ashamed to say I have done before because I was selfish enough to put my safety above that of others.
I guess it comes down to people’s personal experiences in life. Like I said, for me personally, I have experienced mild racism in 2020. Ive has some form of racial abuse every year for the last 13 years from mild comments to extremely vile ones. However they were all made by people that clearly knew i was not foreign, I’ve lived here since birth, I don’t have an accent. Now that’s another level of racism. It’s Full on targeted to offend someone because it says “you’re British but because of your heritage I will abuse you”. Knowing that these type of people exist in society, that are willing to actively insist on being racist to a British person, tells me that there’s a level of racism that runs a whole lot deeper than the superficial layer.
Until you root out and cure racist people and thus racism, you can justify that society is inherently racist solely on the basis that racism is allowed to exist. The long term cure is to educate children. About the British empire, winston Churchill, Ireland, Soviet Union, etc. Domestic and global history and without ignoring the bad bits. Because as much as it’s shouldn’t be scrawled on a statue, Churchill was a racist. He said racist things, he did things because of race. Particularly in India. And people have to accept that not deny it. It doesn’t mean he Didn’t play a pivotal role in WW2 and it doesn’t mean that part of his history shouldn’t be celebrate. But you can’t just sweep the bad bits under the carpet. Kids don’t learn proper history in schools, In year 10 I had to force the teacher to explain that Russia actually took part and played a HUGE role in WW2 and it in fact wasn’t just Britain and America and other allied forces. The curriculum Doesn’t teach the entire story on historical events. You learn about all the other empires but not the British? You don’t learn about your own country’s history? What?
Luckily the younger generations are able to access the remainder of history with so much accessibility to the internet and resources. They also seem to be so much more accepting of others and switched on to calling out injustices and prejudices that at worst we can hope racism dies out with current living generations.
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In reply to Post #304
The point i'm making is its a survey and that is it, what it or you are implying is if you lined up 100 BAME people and asked them the question, ie have you been racially abused then 71 would say yes, personally I doubt it very much, what I don't doubt is it is possibly on the increase but that has a lot to do with the fact that the world is a troubled place and its probably easy for some ignorant bigots to pick on someone with a different skin colour, its always been there only it appears and may be getting worse due to peoples obsession with social media, most of the abuse is by cowards hiding behind a twitter address or something like that, it isn't acceptable but I do think people are often too easily offended these days also, If I were to receive abuse on one of those mediums which I wont because I don't use them but if I were to I just wouldn't go on there in the first place
All i'm saying is there are far more people that aren't racist than are, the 71% you mention (if its accurate) are probably being abused by the same stupid minority and they will never change their views unfortunately
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In reply to Post #303
I never said it was a snap survey. Racially motivated hate crime has risen every year since 2013. More than doubling. Again make of that what you will.
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In reply to Post #301
I'm not in a position to say whether a survey conducted in 2019 is true or not but i'm only going by my experience, I have a brother and three sisters so all in all five of us mixed race, as far as I am aware none of us has been subjected to any form of racial abuse apart from as I have previously stated whilst I was at school and back then it was something that wasn't nice but it didn't mark me for life and I never give it a thought these days so i am only going my own personal experience, my name is clearly foreign but I think of myself as nothing other than British, I was born here and been here for the best part of 61 years, make of that what you will
A snap survey doesn't carry much weight for me unless I know where it was conducted and who the recipients were, it could mean anything but that's not to say there isn't racism, ive said in some of my posts that clearly there is but what I don't like is the implication that our society is inherently racist which it clearly isnt
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In reply to Post #299
Hi Greekskii,
Yes, I second that except that it takes a lot of continual negotiation to keep things on track.
I've said politically, you need a balance between the centre right maximising the economy with free market economics and the centre left to keep them honest with a fair distribution of wealth.
A focus on the individual as sovereign to try and create equal opportunity. Then it's up to people to make the best of their opportunities.
Re your earlier post, how far left people go depends on their ideology, but the identity politics of the far left is devisive and dangerous. Grouping people by race, religion, sex etc is tribal and produces a power struggle.
It is identity politics which is driving these current riots. Of course the murder of George Floyd was awful, but it's gone out of all proportion and incited hatred and violence. Nobody talks about the elderly, black ex police captain shot and killed by looters. In the US, on average, there are 3/4 murders committed every day. There has to be some perspective and reason.
By the way, I meant to say before, that I'm sorry that you seem to have met more than your share of racism in your life. But as others have said, they encounter little of it in their daily lives.
As for me, I abhor it and have never uttered it nor have I ever encountered it, that I can remember.
BB.
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In reply to Post #292
A 2019 nationwide survey by well respected Opinium reported 71% of people from ethnic minorities had faced racial discrimination, and rising in recent years. The vast majority of those were targeted by strangers the survey found. Upto you what you make of the information mate.
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In reply to Post #294
Prosperous economy, equality and a well looked after environment. Not too hard to ask.
Also no HS2.
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In reply to Post #297
Is it me or have even the traditionally biased media outlets now become much less biased and they are all basically the same content wherever you look?
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In reply to Post #295
Seconded
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In reply to Post #295
Thought the same myself, especially about the media!!!
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In reply to Post #292
Excellent post gŷ
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In reply to Post #293
That’s the problem with all politics for me, left wing, right wing, we want to be aiming straight smack bang down the middle!
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In reply to Post #287
Left wing - far left ... are you saying it’s one and the same? Because by that means anyone right wing is far right and holds those values. Which totally contradicts the things you’re saying about respecting others and equality, etc.
Honestly you are intelligent, you know what you’re saying and you’re saying it to try and insults others and cause an issue. So don’t moan when you’re hit with negativity when you’re actively trying to rile people up based on your own political agenda....something that Wasn’t really mentioned in this thread until you bought it up.
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In reply to Post #289
I agree with what you say to an extent but to say with regard to the defacing of Churchill's statue that for some people it is complicated is ridiculous, don't try and say for one minute that the people responsible for that gave a single thought to any of that and it was just a case of wanton vandalism mixed in with a bit of hatred of the powers that be, along with the idiot who was trying to burn the Union flag on the Cenotaph, had it not been for Churchill's resilience, belief and determination during the 2nd world war its highly likely that there would be no Windrush generation, these people just don't seem to realise exactly what previous generations did for them
I'm sorry but I don't see a racist society here in the UK, I see racism just like I see sectarianism in Northern Ireland, homophobia and religious intolerance here etc...but I would never agree that Britain is racist full stop.
I tell you what I see, and that is (on the whole) a tolerant melting pot of many cultures, race and beliefs, albeit it mainly in the large towns and cities, of course there are parts of rural England, Scotland, Wales that remain and always will be predominantly white but that doesn't make them racist, lets face it black and ethic minorities represent just 13% of the population,most people don't judge but this series of events is out of all proportion
Unfortunately you will never have a world where there is no intolerance or hatred because some people refuse to be educated but what I would say is open your mind and lets not get sucked in by the oh so PC national media portraying things in a way that satisfies certain people's agenda
Cheers Sir B and Scozza
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In reply to Post #265
Glad to hear your honesty mate and constructive feedback, it’s similar to that around me, how it should be
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In reply to Post #288
Okay, how about a statue of Stalin? We wouldn’t have won the war without him. Whatever good deeds Colston did are hugely diminished by his activities in that dreadful episode of our history. Just like Savile’s charity work or Stalin’s efforts against Hitler, the pain and suffering they meted out destroy their chances of being viewed as anything other than evil.
The statue of Colston went up long after his death and the abolition of slavery. I’m not happy with the way it was removed but I was born and raised in Bristol and I’m very glad to see it gone. A museum and monument to the victims of slavery would be a very good thing. Let’s view these slave traders in the context of their contribution to human suffering and not in a position normally reserved for royalty and great military leaders.
Historical figures often have complicated histories. Churchill’s leadership in WW2 is worthy of respect but it is tarnished by his history on Ireland and India for example, that’s not to excuse defacing his statue but for some people it is complicated. Mother Theresa, Marie Stopes, Gandhi, the list of famous people known for good have some very sketchy skeletons knocking around.
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In reply to Post #283
906, I don't quite get the analogy, comparing a relic of our historical colonial past with a predatory deceitful paedophile doesn't make any sense to me but if you can see it then fair enough
What Colston did was wrong but it was acceptable through that period of time, and the statue being pulled down should have been done through a democratic vote, i'm sure the people of Bristol would have voted for its removal
I don't quite know where JS fits into this but i'm sure we would all be in agreement that we would prefer to forget him, regardless of his charitable work, personally I found him repulsive and completely weird whilst he was alive and long may he rot where ever he is!
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In reply to Post #285
Hi Greekskii,
That is exactly the identity politics driven by the far left, particularly in the US that blame all of society ills on what they call the corrupt, white, western patriarchal society.
Left wing professors brainwash their students in most universities with their ideology and political correctness and try to stifle free speech and no platform speakers and disrupt meetings.
Where do think Antifa originated from? Ever heard of doxing?
BB.
Edit.
If you want an example, look up Lindsay Shepherd and the nightmare Wilfred Laurier Uni in Canada, put her through because she showed her class a short clip of a Jordan Peterson video.
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In reply to Post #284
not like you to agree with Kier on something!!
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In reply to Post #282
It seems to me our left wing members make a bigger deal of it than it, perhaps is, because they suffer from white privilege guilt.
sorry but what an utterly stupid thing to say. You moan about negative reception but then say stuff like that intending to insult anyone that doesnt agree with your views
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In reply to Post #283
Hi 906,
No I wouldn't because that is such recent history, that it would seem that we were celebrating him.
That statue from centuries ago is not celebrated by us now, it is an historical reminder of what we now consider the sins of the past.
Anyway, Sir B suggested the ideal solution.
BB.
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In reply to Post #270
Would you campaign for the Jimmy Savile plaques and statues to be put back, after all he was a great benefactor?
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In reply to Post #277
Hi Henry,
It's nice to get a positive reaction for a change.
I'm normally a big target for our left wing colleagues on here.
It's good to hear that you were able to rise above whatever racism you were subjected to and had the self confidence to realise that they were the problem and not you.
As you say, racism isn't a one way street. It seems to me our left wing members make a bigger deal of it than it, perhaps is, because they suffer from white privilege guilt.
BB.
Edit.
Sir B, well put, I agree with that.
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In reply to Post #279
We are all hypocrites.What amazes me when we talk about slavery is what about modern day slavery? What about all the t shirts we wear that are made in Vietnam by children getting paid a £1 a week? Or the iPhone sitting next to me that is assembled in China by cheaper labour than Apple want to pay in the west? I know some will say , 'but those people have a choice', but do they really? Its either work to feed your family or starve so they don't really have a choice. Like I say we're all hypocrites when it comes to what we deem acceptable, its just that some are a lot more hypocritical than others, perhaps some of those protesters should rip off their Nike t shirts, trainers etc... and chuck them in the river with that statue!
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In reply to Post #279
But the statues in Hungary have been moved to a different place and now teach what happened in the past rather than celebrate the past. I reckon that's the way forward.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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I'd imagine Auschwitz is preserved because it is a relic of a horror that should not be forgotten.
Statues are a celebration of, and a tribute to the subject.
They're very different things.
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In reply to Post #275
a majority wore masks, look at the pictures, masks that the government are now saying work so well to minimise the risk of spreading the virus in close contact that they've made them mandatory on public transport....and are these the same social distancing measures of 2m that Boris wants to halve to 1m so we can all go have a pint in the pub, without wearing masks?
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In reply to Post #276
Totally agree with that
There are similarities to indigenous Australian Aborigines who have been treated abominably down the years but in recent times, lets say the last twenty to thirty years they have received a lot of help and been given many rights by the Australian government and deservedly so like housing, welfare, land reforms etc...you name it and they were given it but the problems of the past are hard to shake off, and it is their ancient culture that is what they yearn for which doesn't really work in modern day Australia they have bad health issues, terrible drink/alcoholism issues, you cannot make drastic changes in a generation or more let alone a year or two
I remember reading in the 80's when I was living there that more Aborigines had died in police custody than Blacks in South Africa, seems hard to believe and whether it was true or not who knows but it wasn't the era of fake news back then
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In reply to Post #262
Hi Scozza,
I agree and you are reiterating what I've been trying to say.
In terms of opportunity and affluence, we in our Western democracies are in the top 1% of people on the planet.
In the US, millions of ethnic minorities and legal immigrants work hard and lead comfortable, successful lives. They will mostly have been raised in functional families with responsibility and a work ethic.
Inner city blacks raised in 75% mother only families on welfare with little father guidance, bad schools, bad role models on the streets, gang culture and crime, it's no wonder not too many of them, go on to lead successful lives. Attributing their problems to systemic racism is just naïve and missing the point.
BB.
Edit.
Mal, so in that case, why is Auschwitz maintained as a reminder of the holocaust?
Why not just tear that down and just teach it in schools?
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In reply to Post #272
why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Unlike the other incidents it was caught live, the demo was not authorised with and no social distancing took place putting everyone at risk.
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In reply to Post #271
Remove it yes put it in a museum and add a plaque describing the reason.
I'd like it to be recovered and that to happen.
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In reply to Post #266
oops typo, I typed scared when I meant to type scarred, its important to make this distinction, no scars here and mostly water off a ducks back
Greekskii, you say racism was rife in the 80's, i'm sorry but I looked more foreign in the 80's than I do now and often got taken for being Greek or Italian rather than being half Asian and I can honestly say I was never on the end of any racist comments, I agree there was racism then as there is now but to say it was rife is in my opinion incorrect, the majority of people in this country have a live and let live attitude but that seems to be overwhelmed by a minority, just like the protests now where people protest peacefully and a minority start trouble, no matter how much society changes these people will never be satisfied
Ive known some very racist black people in my life so it goes both ways, its not a one way street mate
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In reply to Post #256
this is my exact point, why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Why did people not have facebook search warrants so these people 'get whats coming to them' but they have for the most recent ones?
Why is it okay for football fans to technically racially target a swedish business and trash it?
Its quite hypocritical is it not?
Being from an ethnic background (although being born and raised in England) I have been first hand a victim of racism, nothing major but plenty of comments and some intimidation. Not as a child but as a teenager and adult, mainly due to EE migration in to this country. The usual "go back to your own country", "foreign c*nt" as well as more vile things like "Hitler shouldn't have let any polish survive" (ironically from people that also bang on about winning the war, even more ironically they believe the British did it without anyone else's input, which couldn't be further from the truth). I've even cut ties with so called friends over it, as much as the very dark banter as a friendship group goes, the constant repetition of something quite hostile goes to show that there must be some truth behind it.
What I do see amongst British people (and its true of many other people too before anyone starts saying im being racist) is that there is an unwillingness to listen and accept negative traits and out of order behaviour when it occurs. God forbid you try to point it out as I have done before, only to be met with "go back to your own country then you **** if you dont want to accept our ways" not that I was born here or anything, or that accepting clear racial prejudices is something you have to do if you live in this country.
The casual racism that exists is rife, it is mad to deny it does, jeez I was even mildly racially abused on this forum ffs. There are full on racists that exist, i've met them before, and it only takes these people to be in positions of power (teacher, manager, owner, politician, policeman, etc. to input racist values in to the system, to stop someone getting a job because of their heritage, to refuse entry because of their skin colour, to target people of certain skin colour and treat them poorly, to purposely or accidentally teach others your views, especially children.
Ask yourselves, how may of you have that racist grandparent or uncle or aunt that we so often hear people talkin about? Think to when your parent or boss or teacher or friend said something racist, think about what you grew up around (the 80s was rife for racism, its well documented) now not one single person will they've never heard or seen something racist in their lives, no matter how mild or major it was. Most of us have upbringings involving being able to mix with a large number of people and form our own thoughts around race from childhood. But there IS people in this country that dont allow their children to do that, they have racist views themselves and they are forced upon their children as a value, whether they are white, black, purple or blue. Rooting that out of society, coupled with education, will long term eradicate the problem. The younger generations are so much more tolerant and accepting as a majority, you root out and cure the racism being taught to people NOW...then in 80yrs it will have died out completely. But who the **** wants to wait 80yrs?? bit too long isnt it...
...the cure for it now is simply to soap the swim next door and get haulin
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #270
Hi BB
benefactor with money from the slave trade.... a bit like those businesses built on the gold that Nazis stole maybe
i'm guessing that the vote wasn't a 'keep or not' thing where a majority was needed. Education is vital - evidently.
It's the right thing to remove these type of statues - AND educate people as to why.
have a good day man
Mal
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In reply to Post #255
Hi Mal,
If the residents of Bristol had a majority to take down that statue then, as they live there, I suppose it would be their choice to do so.
However, it's having been there now, at this time in history, was not a celebration of what he did in the past, it's a piece of history which shows what was considered acceptable behaviour and commerce in the past.
It might be disconcerting and uncomfortable to some to realise that this man, although a slave trader, was at the same time, a generous benefactor to his city, and so much so, that they erected a bronze statue in his honour. We like to think that people like him were evil and without any redeeming qualites. If all the unpleasant and nasty pieces of our history are erased, then they become forgotten and we and future generations don't learn from the mistakes of the past.
BB.
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Fishie - I'd guess that the VAST majority of the population think the British police do a very good job in difficult circumstances. I don't know why you think everyone hates coppers, you must have spent too much time in the company of criminals.
Somewhere I have a great photo I took in Whitehall in 2002, maximum terror alert, two scary looking police officers with automatic weapons stood in the rain with what looked like a Japanese tourist - a young woman with a small child in a pushchair. It had just started raining hard, and these two coppers were trying, with great difficulty, to work out how to fit the rain cover on the woman's pushchair, which was this big bit of odd shaped clear plastic with press studs and velcro, while she stood there saying 'thank you very much indeed' over and over. Fantastic sight.
I'm not sure the American police have the same level of trust and public confidence.
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Just watched a video from a ex black cop Brandon Tatum in the US, brilliant.
www.thescoop.us
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What a weekend......Snowflakes everywhere offended by everything and anything, CV19 has now gone, ALL white folk are racist, Keith Lemon apologised for taking the piss out of black singers and GMTV is still going on about Dom.......
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In reply to Post #265
Nice to hear that Henry, I'm white and don't live that far from you and have similar neighbours so pleased to hear that I'm not wearing blinkers
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In reply to Post #262
I come from mixed race parents, Irish mother and Bangladeshi father but I AM British and there is no one more patriotic than me, I had many a racist comment when I was at school being called 'paki' etc...and got in many fisticuffs over it but that was 45 years ago and I can honestly say I haven't been subjected to or been aware of any form of racism in my adult life, I have always worked and always felt I have been given the same opportunities an anyone else, i'm certainly not scarred by a few silly names I was called over 45 years ago, of course there is racism and always will be but the way its being portrayed is as if society is inherently racist which it clearly isn't....there are a lot black/mixed race ethnic minorities in this country who have done very well for themselves and then again there are a lot of white people who don't get a fair crack of the whip, its about attitude and endeavour, if you work hard and make the effort to get on with people it doesn't matter what your colour is, where I live is admittedly predominantly white but that's not because I decided I want to live in a white area thus making me racist, its because I like the area and oddly enough the nicest house in the street is owned by a hard working Indian family who you couldn't wish to meet nicer people, ive never heard them complain once about racism
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In reply to Post #263
You too Mal
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #261
fair point - there are some posts that are subtly (or less so) saying that racism isn't a problem...
as you know, I do see / hear it and am happy to challenge it
have a good day man
edit - 'trailer trash' doesn't fix a race / colour to it. If it's prefixed with one of those then you could rightly say it's a race slur.
I've pulled up lads and girls at school for insults specifically because they prefix with colour / race. Sharon might be - in someone's opinion - a 'slag', but calling her a 'silly white slag' is another level in the same way that calling David (these are made up names for the sake of example) a 'black w***er' is racially aggressive. He might well be a w***er, but not because of his skin colour. (I have actually used that sentence with a young lad)
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In reply to Post #255
How about American "trailer trash" is that not a racist demarcation for white folk who have nothing. Same position as the back folk sadly. Again, social status. Nothing comes handed on a plate. For me you have had either a good upbringing where the basic fundamentals are installed in you by your parents or you have to fight your way out of it.
Like most things in life, with a lot of people its just far easier to blame everybody else for your personnel circumstances. It sounds hard line, it is not intended that way but everybody in a western world has opportunities and the only way you are going to make something in your life is by trying hard and exploiting them.
The truth is for me, i truly feel for some people who are out of luck and cannot make it happen, that is sad. I have absolutely no sympathy though for anybody who has never tried and just wants to blame everybody else for their circumstances and until we filter these out we will always struggle in defeating most things in life, not just racism
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In reply to Post #249
I think there could be confusion here Mal?
I do not think anybody is blatantly denying it, i cannot see evidence of this throughout the thread. We all know its there its just not big on the agenda around me. I dont see many racial insults etc. Cant remember the last time i ever heard one to be honest?
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In reply to Post #248
Little bits at a time, i believe that is how we have got to where we are today? We have made progress.
I look at this country and one of the main driving forces for me is football, kick racism out of football and they have done a lot of promotional work and forced the message. Lets face it, if your a clown sat amongst 70,000 i think you will soon get outed or a good hiding these days
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In reply to Post #255
Just before I go and to use a saying that I hate, “ some of my best mates are black” we grew up together from the same estate I did. Some are on the dole and some have done better than me. It’s about the person not the perceived barriers. It’s like fishing some work at it and get results some camp and blank!
Some do struggle with challenges and I won’t put myself in their shoes to try to explain, comment or defend the obstacles in their paths. But when you meet an 11 year old whose just joined the local gang for a new pair of trainers and had to complete an initiation of robbing an 80 year old granny of her pension, I feel the community have to shoulder some responsibility for this. He then went onto driving a top of the range Merc at 17 on illicit gains and then dies at 19 by the hand of another gang you have to break that cycle as well!
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In reply to Post #255
and all Police are not bad - I don't know who has said that on here, but that's equally wrong. not all of anyone is bad (well.. the KKK etc. aside of course)
I won't name names but the claims on here of 'the police are institutionally racist' suggests that all police are bad.
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In reply to Post #254
First one was someone who had no real motive but was mentally deranged, do we help or persecute such people.
I can only guess about the other 3 maybe some of it was anti white protests and the media is too frightened to make too much of it coupled with it wasn’t captured live on news. I would’ve thought that CCTV would be available for at least some of them and if so why was there a cover up, maybe it may of caused racial tensions?
Edit
You added more while I was writing the above
All football vandalism is wrong
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #253
11000 people voted for it to go - it should have gone. just because the rest of the 600000 didn't bother doesn't mean it should have stayed. more people in this country DIDN'T vote for Boris than did.... celebrating a slave trader - described as 'virtuous' - is wrong.I agree that education is vital. absolutely agree 100%
You were lucky in your school - lots of places don't cover the slave trade in any depth - or the realities of colonialism. Maybe your education is key to your more measured approach as you have grown older.
and nobody is saying that young white lads from less wealthy backgrounds don't face challenges. but there ARE different and colour based challenges that we (cause i'm white working class too) didn't have to overcome. saying it's lack of ambition or hard work from young black men doesn't cut it I'm afraid
and all Police are not bad - I don't know who has said that on here, but that's equally wrong. not all of anyone is bad (well.. the KKK etc. aside of course)
enjoy the fishing mate - i'm off to wash my hair. see you in a long while...
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As much as defacing monuments and statues for blind thuggery goes, don't forget when other people have mindlessly damaged them there wasn't the same level of public outcry and condemning and hunts for the people that did it.
Im awful at links but:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22978219
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/28/war-memorials-police-graffiti-islam
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/police-investigating-after-thugs-hurl-white-paint-over-raf-bomber-command-memorial-a4044331.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/war-memorial-defaced-vandalism-london-hayes-a4432866.html
https://londonist.com/london/news/karl-marx-vandalism
I pose the question, why didn't the people crying about it now, have nothing to say about all these other incidents considering all of the above were not during a protest where things escalated, most of them were planned attacks by someone with the intent on damaging them as their sole purpose. (clearly one is kids writing on the war memorial)
Not to mention the countless pissing on monuments that happens every boozy weekend or when the football is in town and stuff gets trashed. But it's okay because its football?
https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/08/football-fans-launch-fundraiser-repair-ambulance-wrecked-wild-world-cup-celebrations-7692981/
https://news.sky.com/story/london-ambulance-damaged-as-england-fans-celebrate-world-cup-quarter-final-win-11429810
The above highlights that england fans trashed an IKEA because england beat sweden at football so its a just reason to trash a business.
And then you get the absolute idiots as seen below (US based granted but still shows the idiocy of people)
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/pewdiepie-youtube-war-memorial-vandalism-t-series-sub-count-a8814006.html
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In reply to Post #249
On a point of the statue in Bristol apparently a vote was held in Bristol and 11,000 voted to remove it out of 600,000, normal everyday people don't care about these politically motivated ventures, they just want to get on with their lives. You cannot change history and you cant airbrush it away. But you can educate and explain what's happened.
In relation to slavery i was taught at a primary school in Clapham London, where they had positive connection to the anti-slavery movement and the collapse of the British slave trade. They didn't hold back on both sides of the argument human rights and economic benefits. It was explained from both sides and not shielded away as a dirty secret.
I grew up in South London in the 70's where the NF and other right wing factions preyed on insecure poor/unemployed white youths and being honest at one stage i started to agree with them especially after the 80's Brixton riots which turned from protest to open looting and criminal damage. it even lead to a police dog being killed in a police van after the mob turned it over and set fire to it! that really helped their cause. But with age experience and a positive attitude I broke from a youth with no formal qualifications, from a poor family in a council house and no prospects. To labouring for a £1 an hour on building sites, then gaining an apprenticeship as a central heating engineer then my final job change it can be done. Its not white privalige, its not sitting back playing the victim, its having some commitment and hard work.
The protesters have now given the status quo reasons why the protests are wrong and middle England will agree with them. People are afraid of change, BREXIT anyone?, but forcing change will just put peoples backs up while coaxing and slowly encouraging will achieve the end result more quickly and with less upheaval whether true or perceived.
Remember all protesters are not looters and fighters but all police are bad. Sound familiar in this racism paint everyone with the same bush arguments.
Anyway I'm off fishing now and will return to the slanging match that is is this thread at the moment!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #251
which tesco do you shop in mate? watch out for the grey haired lass with stubble....
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Perhaps it's time for the middle aged white blokes of carpforum to move on to examine some other subjects we know all about ....
Sexual harassment - I'd be flattered if a woman grabbed MY arse in Tesco's, so why are they moaning?
Dwarfism - the birds love 'em, cheap kiddies clothes and you probably get pissed quicker, and they get a bloody blue badge!
Childbirth - perfectly natural process, what's with all the screaming and shouting?
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In reply to Post #249
The pint is still on
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #246
Morning Scozza
I don't agree with every sentence of this article, but there are some very good points in it - if you are wondering what you / we could do on a daily basis...
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/white-people-black-lives-matter
I agree that we are going round in circles on here at times - but... if people keep trying to deny underlying issues, then it falls on us to keep reminding them
have a good day man
edit - tinhead. a little at a time is a good start
I agree about the removal of statues properly and I agree that pissing on a statue of Churchill is wrong. And I'm not making excuses - just providing counterpoints. Now when are you buying me that pint?
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In reply to Post #246
What are we going to do about it?
Little bits at a time
Went to Hungary in February and they have some contentious statues that originally took pride of a place in Budapest main square but have been removed over the years to less prestigious places. The idea is they go there to learn about the past rather than celebrate it. That could’ve happened in Bristol but it’s too late, or is it?
Sorry pissing on Churchill is not the way forward unless you had preferred for him to be defeated and we'd all now be living under Nazi rule?
Let's hope the lack of social distancing this weekend doesn't set the R rate higher we don't want the government sighting these demos as the reason do we?
Another good post Fishie. Told you it was moreish
Edit
Mal stop making excuses for people unless you make excuses for everyone
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #245
morning fishie
hard to resist eh?
I agree that the hijacking of a peaceful movement and protest is a problem. It undermines the argument because those who disagree have a 'see. I told you so' excuse to carry on with their behaviours. It isn't helped that these are the images that the media choose to run repeatedly rather than the thousands of people who have not p'd on churchill etc.
Luckily more and more people are recognising that the violence and damage is not the message of BLM and condemning those who are using it as a way of creating disorder. It's common knowledge that 'white supremist' organisations are sending in people to subvert and undermine the protests.
I'm glad the statues that glorify slave traders and sympathisers are coming down - it's ridiculous that they were still there to start with - but it does show that both our own and the US society have been built on years of racial oppression. They should have been taken down years ago by proper means... It does raise awareness of the history though. How many people are now more aware of Edward Colston as a result of this?
the pandemic issue is tricky. Flipping it on it's head, one could argue that it shows how vital it is to get the message across that people will risk infection to protest. Again, there are many who have peacefully protested WITH social distancing in place.
The job situation isn't so simple. Statements about employing underrepresented in adverts came about because of the inequalities in the recruitment system and while there are still people in charge who would use their position to preserve oppressive / discriminatory agendas then we need some form of redress. In an ideal world, all applicants would be treated fairly - we've some way to go yet...
Your story about Mrs fishie shows that people need to be sensible with this - however I would say that the reaction of the two women - who I won't label - is easily attributed to years and years of seeing things like this happen where the story is exactly as they thought it could be. Maybe it's a lesson learned for them to take away - objectively speaking I'd still rather people speak out and be corrected in an instance like this than walk on by and say nothing...
It's easy to apologise for being wrong in a situation if your intentions are good.
Hope your dad's ok and good luck for him coming home today
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In reply to Post #245
Well said
I think this thread is just like thrashing the water to a foam. Like somebody mentioned below. What are we going to do about it?
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In reply to Post #244
Pissing on the cenotaph and trying to burn the flags hanging there show how much the political activists are using the mainly peaceful demonstrations as a cover. Its a chance to overturn society and they are grabbing it with both hands. Society will change and has to change but it will take time!
In the middle of a pandemic it is not the time to hold mass demonstrations the same same people attending these demonstrations will be whinging today about the death toll and the rates of new infections, they will totally gloss over the fact that they have possibly added to these figures and how the government and this racist bug is affecting society.
In a true representative society the fundamentals have to be established and with this you have to get rid of quotas, positive discrimination as well as discrimination and everyone earns their place on merit not because of underrepresentation. No more job adverts with Female and BAME are underrepresented in this role and are positively encouraged to apply.
What i could see of the London protest could be put in a category of BAME's who this affects most and most want peaceful change, The the usual peaceful professional protester who turn up because its happening and those who actually want change. The other section was the London centric Left wing activists, politically motivated students and black gang members. I wonder which section were firing flares, chucking bikes at horses and causing the trouble?
Just a note for the liberal elite never judge a book by its cover. A few years ago my Mrs was having an argument with 2 black people on the street, a couple of passing white people, let me describe them as liberal white female activists, started joining in the argument and berating my Mrs for berating the 2 black people and started slagging her off for her racist, white, stereotypical attitude. At the end it was only the 2 activists shouting at my missus until both the black people told them to keep their noses out. The liberals started explaining they were their for them to show support against the racist white woman. Thats when the bombshell was dropped that the racist white woman was the mother and grandmother of the 2 black people and that the liberals should **** off with their stereotypical ideals and blinkered approach. it runs both ways does racism and perceived racism.
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In reply to Post #242
I have no desire to watch right wing 'intellectuals' trying to deny racism
Theres so many of them about isn’t there?
Just because everyone has the right to being treated equally doesn’t mean they are. Simple as that. There’s employment studies where BAME people were less likely to get an interview that white people solely based on a different name on an identical CV. Laws exist to stop this happening but they still do (2016/17 this was conducted). A racist in a position of power creates inequality. Racism is learnt behaviour based on upbringing and society.
Much the same as most football supporters will tell your they hate the French and Germans and Argentinians, well pretty much any other country tbh. Solely based on having been beaten by them once or twice, this example also proves how people flippant and dismissive people are of their own behaviours because they’ll then support the German star striker of their domestic team. Chanting about German bombers and the RAF, basically saying “we killed your grandfathers or great grandfathers” is deemed acceptable across the nation because you want to beat them at football?
To simply deny that racism exists in our society is because you are in denial...or doing that BNP **** where you can’t accept that white people have flaws.
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In reply to Post #241
I've seen plenty of Trump's cronies jailed and charged. Did you?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #230
Hi bb
I'm tired so I'll keep this succinct....
You did
What you think isn't the issue
None of the poor whites are held back because they are black
Successful despite racism
Yes it is amazing in such a racist environment
What you think isn't the issue. And in this case is insulting
I have no desire to watch right wing 'intellectuals' trying to deny racism. And 40 per cent is still 40 per cent too much.
As above but with 30 per cent
Systematic racism IS the issue. That's the point.
Stay safe
Mal
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In reply to Post #212
Hi Ocelot,
Finally got round to you, it's been busy today.
Trump gets things done despite Nancy Pelosi ripping up his speeches at the State of the Union address.
Trump was a businessman with the drive to become a billionaire, not a career politician like Obama.
Follow the current Senate hearings exposing the Obama administration, weaponising the
Justice Dept, the CIA and the FBI to spy on the Trump administration. How the DNC via Hillary Clinton, paid 7 million dollars to an ex MI6 agent Christopher Steel via a company called Fusion to liaise with Russians he knew, to try and dig up dirt on Trump and which produced the phoney Russian collusion dossier.
The FBI knowingly used this phoney dossier along with a corrupted E mail to obtain Fisa warrants, which a judge passes and gives permission to spy on US citizens. They used the warrants to spy on several of Trump's people, including General Mike Flynn, who they targeted with a perjury trap and since has had the charges dropped by the current Attourney General. This corruption has been dragged out by crooked Democrats and media for 3.5 years, but new evidence and documents have finally been declassified which show the level of corruption. Re Flynn, one document has a handwritten note by a senior FBI agent saying, " what is our objective here, to get him to lie, so to get him fired or prosecuted? "
Watch this space. Hopefully, some of these criminals will be getting jail time.
BB.
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BB , your ideology and why things don't change
link .
I didn't want to post this shi* , but we live in a democracy , make your own minds up between this and my previous link
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In reply to Post #238
Don’t mate, respect, at least your honest
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In reply to Post #236
I feel all guilty now , but for a good cause , your never to old to change !
BB , "the myth of systemic racism" seriously !
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In reply to Post #234
found it , here you go
link .
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In reply to Post #235
I like a honest man mate
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In reply to Post #206
BB , yep sorry , i got two articles mixed up !
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In reply to Post #231
Hi Spanker,
I'm sorry but I don't know how to post up links, but I can give you the full title to type on U tube
The Rubin Report the Myth of Systemic Racism pt 2 with Coleman Hughes.
If you're interested, also watch the Rubin Report Black lives Matter with Larry Elder.
Re what I said Trump did for the black community, then go to ABC News Senator Tim Scott on Biden's you ain't black comment.
BB.
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In reply to Post #221
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and it's not about you joggers who go round and round and round
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In reply to Post #230
can you post the video up for us to look at please.
One things for sure in the coming years if we don't find a vaccine , it's going to get ugly !
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In reply to Post #224
Hi Mal,
I didn't suggest the ' American dream ' was an equal opportunity scheme.
I gave some of the reasons I think inner city blacks are held back from being successful.
There are far more poor whites in the US and assume are held back for the same reasons.
But millions of blacks and minorities succeed to high levels despite any racism.
The levels of academic achievement of the Asian communities in the US is amazing despite any racism.
I think racism is often used as an excuse for failure and lack of ambition.
On the vid I mentioned, he spoke of several polls taken of young blacks who were asked if they thought racism affected their lives and the majority of them said no by a ratio of 60- 40.
Disaffected young blacks with no education or jobs were asked the same question and said no by a ratio of 70-30.
This issue is far more complex to be solely attributed to systemic racism.
BB.
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In reply to Post #228
Why would anyone want to come here we're overcrowded, intolerant, expensive, dirty, polluted, housing crisis, austerity, our police force full of racists and the weather is better elsewhere?
I'm going for a little rest Mal
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #226
'Some countries suffer very little racism simply because they don't allow other races in.'
bloody hell tinhead - don't give them ideas!
oh hang on.....
and we are agreed it's global. 'Think globally, act locally' (look at me borrowing from the green / recycling agenda there)
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I lied second and last post
Saw this today and to be quite honest I wasn't going to post but
For all the peaceful protesters upset about being lumped in with the rioters, looters and lawbreakers.......
Its like all the great police officers getting lumped in with the few bad ones, isn't it?
and a quote from me
You cant stereotype members of the public but you can stereotype all police officers!
Laters...
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In reply to Post #224
But not all ethnicities have been subject to the same levels of discrimination, oppression, slavery...
If you're talking about sheer numbers then the highly populated countries like the USA will produce high numbers of sufferers and being english speaking it's easier for the information to get to us.
Some countries suffer very little racism simply because they don't allow other races in.
Some small countries have severe racism but the numbers are low due to the low population.
What I'm trying to say is racism is a global problem
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In reply to Post #223
That's forums for you, sometimes people misinterpret each other
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #220
Hi BB
of course all lives matter - but in the same way that there was a need for Dr Martin Luther King, there IS a need for the BLM movement.
Racism IS a worldwide problem. But not all ethnicities have been subject to the same levels of discrimination, oppression, slavery...
And no it is not just a white western trait - it's not a trait at all, it's a decision. And not all countries and ethnicities have produced the KKK, NF, Identity Evropa, the Proud Boys, the American Guard.... lots of other white supremacist groups I could name...
It's not human nature to target others out of hatred.
And the 'American Dream' isn't an equal opportunity scheme.
The BLM movement isn't about saying that black lives matter more - just that they should matter as much.
edit - fishie, good post man
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In reply to Post #216
Hi Jimmy,
Strange that you would think I need to lighten up and am insecure?
I never suggested it was sinister or anything for that matter.
I had no idea what it meant and was just curious. I didn't want to miss out on the joke if there was one.
BB.
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In reply to Post #221
Makes sense to me that mate
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My one and only post in this.
Again this has turned into a tit for tat tennis slanging match with no sign in let up.
What are people expecting from all these rallies and marches in a time when the north are asking for lockdowns and no relaxing of restrictions, but won't condemn these large gatherings of people. The seaside trips and trips to the countryside on bank holiday weekends have coincided with a rise in the R rate, so expect a further rise after these protests.
Everyone is aware that what happened is wrong and in no one can deny it happened, but i feel all the positives of the peaceful marches are being negated by angry mobs, mindless violence, criminal damage and the "**** you" attitude from the protesters. I don't care if a statue of a slave trader is ripped down should have been done earlier, but when lives are put in danger by the spreading of the virus it just blows my mind.
So rather than putting down everyone else's cut and paste and links lets hear some solutions and positive ideas to to eliminate racism, perceived racism and proxy racism on someone else's behalf?
This is from a stepfather of a dual heritage daughter and retired copper, but hey ho all police are racists!
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In reply to Post #195
Hi Mal,
I agree with all of your post except one thing. Black lives matter. I would substitute All lives matter and equally so.
Racism is world wide and is found in all races. It's not just a white western trait.
Scozza gave examples of the racism between ethnic minorities. So did Not at his work place.
I've read that in Germany, the immigrants have divided into their ethnic groups and the Africans, Kurds, Afganistanis and Iraqis don't get on together.
Different cultures largely tend to congregate together and form their own communities whatever country they happen to be in. It's human nature at a basic level and only education producing more democratic, sophisticated societies will reduce racism. And that equates to Western societies where the individual is held sovereign. That is the opposite of identity politics, which tribalises society and causes division and racism.
Given a sound family structure and the opportunity of a good education, everyone in the US has a chance to live the ' American dream.' Millions of blacks and minorities have done so and proven the case. So does having had a black president.
That's why I think the main problems for inner city blacks is familial, social and educational.
BB.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #215
**** off ****
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In reply to Post #216
Well said James
It did make me laugh though, very good
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In reply to Post #215
Exactly
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In reply to Post #210
If you think that’s at your expense then so be it but you ought to lighten up a little bit....to put your insecurity at rest I will explain....It was how your post was paraphrased and could be broken down into sections and retold as in Parklife... nothing sinister and I thought it was funny and so did others,
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In reply to Post #214
And then there's hippies who get pissy
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #213
fair point
idealists try to make the world better
realists recognise that isn't easy
don't forget the defeatists though - who say there's no point trying...
oh and cyclists who just get in the bloody way. Bloody 'eco' travellers!
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In reply to Post #208
There’s different groups of people in this life Mal, idealists (dreamers) and realists. I know which camp we sit in
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In reply to Post #209
Start practicing what you're preaching, with regards credit in your posts and I will.
Obama tried to lead through bipartisan agreement with a majority of Republicans in Congress. Trump uses gun to the head politics and executive orders whilst having a Democrat Congress. We see the divisive outcomes that brings.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #210
Hi BB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSuHrTfcikU - Parklife
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In reply to Post #203
Hi Jimmy,
Please excuse my ignorance, but can you explain why the parklife post is considered funny?
It seems it was made at my expense, so I'm naturally curious.
BB.
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In reply to Post #201
Hi Ocelot,
It's no different now for Trump with a Democrat majority in Congress.
He's also had 3.5 years of Democrat corruption re the Russian collusion hoax to deal with and a disengenuous left wing press.
But he with the help of Senator Tim Scott has managed to implement major policies for the benefit of blacks and other minorities that make Obama's efforts pale into insignificance.
75 Billion dollars of private sector money being invested into poor areas.
You should give credit where it's due.
BB.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #199
why not take a couple of days to read into the history and full context of the word?
It is derogatory. That is the fact.
don't need a high horse to be above using that word
when I asked the mods to look at it, I made a point of saying that your context in the post wasn't an attack or aggressive in nature.
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In reply to Post #205
The same Jim
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In reply to Post #196
Hi Spanker,
I'm not sure what you mean?
If you are inferring that I copied it from Mary Walters, then you are wrong.
I wrote that as a précis from the info from the U tube vid.
I've never read Mary Walters or knew of her until you spoke of her.
Nice try though.
BB.
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In reply to Post #204
I find it impossible to read without hearing Phil Daniels speaking the words and then me in my head chanting Parklife 😂😂😂
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #203
utter genius
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In reply to Post #195
One thing I will agree with you on and that’s nineosix’s parklife post, easily the best thing I’ve read on this forum and worthy of best post award at the end of the year 😂😂😂
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #198
maybe it's more than that Jim
It's important that this is different than before - we EXPECT places with a large Black community to march / protest etc. But if places with a predominantly white community can physically show support then that message gets out. Maybe it's the start for some of them to become more pro-active.
Most - if not all - rallies / protests are a case of speaking to the converted - unless opposition groups / individuals etc. decide to go along to make a point. That's just the nature of the beast.
How easy would it have been for those who attended to say ' well we only have a few 'ethnic minorities' here so it doesn't really affect us'? It is part of a bigger picture sending a positive message - and the fact that it was peaceful, even more so.
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In reply to Post #194
Twice you've referenced Obama in the last 2 post's. As a self advertised student of US politics, you'll understand the significance of 6 of those 8 year's being served with a Republican majority in Congress. You'll no doubt know also during those 6 year's, it's one of the lowest periods of bills being passed and signed in any modern US administration. So you'll know about the bills and acts that failed to get to the president's desk to sign into law, blocked by......
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Seeing the bloke who jumps on every criticism, piss-take or sarcastic comment as a chance to cry ‘abuse’ in the hope of getting a bit of sympathy cite black Americans’ ‘perceived victimhood’ as a cause of their problems has just broken my irony-meter.
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In reply to Post #195
You will find that the word used way back in post 119 has now been added to the blocked list on carp forum.
For this simple but important action, I thank the 2 mods who sorted it. If you now feel aggrieved that you can't use that word on carp forum, then I suggest you ask yourself why it's so important for you to say it. It's a vile word with a historical context that offers no positive reason for you to use it.
The choice by some (not all) black
Get off your high horse. It was used in the context of what some of them call each other. Not, derogatory, Fact!
I like the “your not part of the solution” points
What should we do then?
Possibly take a couple of days out before providing a non emotional response?
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I saw on FB today that they were holding a BLM peaceful demo in our local park at the war memorial, three things I wondered, why are they meeting at the war memorial given the recent photos and news coverage of the recent atrocities to the cenotaph etc....why Hastings ? we have a lower than average ethnicity in the town and who are they demonstrating to ?
Well I’ve just seen the photos on FB and thankfully it was peaceful, and all kept to safe distancing and from what I gather no one urinated up our war memorial, but the photos showed a crowd of a couple of hundred largely consisting of white middle class and student types with the odd ethnic minority dotted about, and it seems to me it was just folk taking the Mike and giving there views to a crowd who all agreed with their views anyway... I just can’t see what the point of it was ... their anger and displeasure was certainly not aimed at anyone there to listen to it, and I expect the local paper sent a photographer along but there was certainly no film crew to broadcast their message to the hordes.... just a bunch of Liberals who for their own benefit had to be seen to be doing something to the cause
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Cleansing ones past , right or wrong ? Rhodes next ?
link .
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In reply to Post #194
this was the second paragraph in your post written by Mary C Walters in 1994 , copy and paste it
A study has been made between US blacks and immigrant blacks from the Carribbean. 2nd generation Carribbean kids can't be distinguished from US black kids because they both speak with the same accent.
They both tend to live in their own close knit communities and are equally subject to any supposed racism.
The study shows that Carribbean kids do far better in education, go on to get good jobs, many in professions, and earn a far higher income. A lot of this difference is attributed to two parent families teaching discipline and respect and a work ethic to their kids. Asian kids success in education is off the charts and is attributed to family work ethic.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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So...
I have avoided this for a while - largely because if I wanted to listen to white men try to find reasons why racism doesn't exist / isn't a problem / is 'perceived victimhood' / and so on and so on... then I could just join the NF / BNP and go to one of their meetings.
Also, I found myself getting emotional - which is fine because there are people in my world who I care about who are directly affected by this each day. So I got pissy...
However - there are small positives everywhere.
You will find that the word used way back in post 119 has now been added to the blocked list on carp forum.
For this simple but important action, I thank the 2 mods who sorted it. If you now feel aggrieved that you can't use that word on carp forum, then I suggest you ask yourself why it's so important for you to say it. It's a vile word with a historical context that offers no positive reason for you to use it.
The choice by some (not all) black men and women to use that word as a way of 'reclaiming' it, is not yours to judge. Sorry.
Denying that racism and racial inequality and racial oppression exist, doesn't make it true.
If finding someone 'intelligent' who says racism isn't a problem helps you to justify your own position of denial then good for you.
You are not part of the solution.
If saying that some people are just born that way helps your denial then good for you.
You are not part of the solution.
If you choose to focus on the idiots that use events as an excuse for civil unrest, rather than the many thousands more who have protested peacefully and respectfully to help your denial then good for you.
You are not part of the solution.
If you are trying to find any excuse / ideology / mythology / ridiculous comparison / 'well what about...' type argument, to help your denial then good for you.
You are not part of the solution.
If you think saying 'well I'm not a racist' is enough then good for you.
You are not part of the solution.
There are intelligent, empathetic, emotionally aware people on this forum. I hope and pray that this could be a real moment for positive change in our society. I encourage you to be part of the solution. You don't need to march / protest. But you can do something rather than simply not doing. As Greekskii said, you can challenge racist comments rather than ignore them because not saying anything is not enough if you really want a world without racism.
Tinhead i would gladly have a pint with you - and you wouldn't want to kill me because I'm a nice man.
Spanker / Jon / Jimmy / Ocelot etc. - Likewise.
Scozza - same - although if you drop the 'N' word then I might pour it over your head...
BB - maybe a half if we both promise not to talk... (that's a joke - please take it that way)
Greekskii - I don't know what you got banned for in the past but don't do it again because your voice on here is important.
nineosix - 'Parklife' - the single funniest thing I have read on Carp Forum - ever!
I'd like to thank my agent for giving me this opportunity and the director for making such a wonderful film..
Silliness aside - ask yourself what it is that stops you from saying, and believing,
Black Lives Matter
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In reply to Post #192
Hi Spanker,
The info you refer to came from a U tube vid from Oct 2018, the Rubin Report entitled The Myth of Systemic Racism with the black commentator Coleman Hughes.
The info and stats he gives, come from the research of Dr. Thomas Sowell, and from the Columbian Uni professor of sociology Van Tran and the Harvard Uni professor of sociology Ethan Fosse.
In fact, part of the page you copied agrees with the piece I wrote.
The literature on the second generation, including some of my own writing, has stressed the cultural and structural strengths of immigrants and their children and how they are able to overcome barriers which have cursed some native minorities in the U.S
Agreed, she refers to racism, but that was written 23 years ago and race relations have improved in time in the US.
The point remains that 2nd generation Carribbean kids do far better than their black US counterparts and the main reason is good family structure and work ethic.
The main problems that inner city black communities face is familial, social and bad schools.
And Trump has implemented the policies I outlined, to improve poor communities, which is far more than Obama ever did for his community.
BB.
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It's got nothing to do with Vorsprung durch technique, you know?
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In reply to Post #191
Ask yourself BB why you did not look a bit further into the Author who you copied and pasted , you found the material to suit your agenda , within 2 minutes of me searching the author, Mary C Waters i found this , to rebalance what you posted , your article was written in 1994 and the one i copied was 1997
In this paper I focus on the third way in which race matters to second generation outcomes--ongoing institutional racism and the detrimental effects of racial segregation. I would like to suggest that while the cultural and identity reactions of second generation youth are important in determining their labor market outcomes, the structural constraints facing these youth have large independent effects. In other words, even the most non-oppositional, un-race conscious, ambitious, school identified youth would face a very uphill battle to avoid crime and violence, do well in school, and get enough education in a local school to actually complete in college. The literature on the second generation, including some of my own writing, has stressed the cultural and structural strengths of immigrants and their children and how they are able to overcome barriers which have cursed some native minorities in the U.S. However, these barriers and the racial discrimination that sustains them are real, and these real deprivations create failure among some youth.
This paper is based on an in-depth race and interview study of first and second generation West Indians in New York City in the early 1990's. After a brief description of the research I concentrate on the ways in which neighborhood and school segregation function to limit opportunities in school, and the labor market for second generations will flesh out the "black box" mechanisms by which race remains correlated with extreme disadvantage in our society even among the children of new immigrants.
You can do better than this BB
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Hi All,
There's a bigger picture to this unrest in the US, Australia and here and that is a political battle between the radical left globalism and Republican/ Conservative populism.
This Black Lives Matter movement is identity politics on steroids and is fueled by perceived victimhood.
The stats show that there is little evidence to support the claim of systemic racism and that, in the US, the real problems that inner city blacks face are social deprivation. 75% of black families are mother only on welfare. This is because, if a father is present, the welfare stops and the onus is on him to support the family. So welfare gives fathers a free pass in being responsible for their own children.
A study has been made between US blacks and immigrant blacks from the Carribbean. 2nd generation Carribbean kids can't be distinguished from US black kids because they both speak with the same accent.
They both tend to live in their own close knit communities and are equally subject to any supposed racism.
The study shows that Carribbean kids do far better in education, go on to get good jobs, many in professions, and earn a far higher income. A lot of this difference is attributed to two parent families teaching discipline and respect and a work ethic to their kids. Asian kids success in education is off the charts and is attributed to family work ethic.
Studies from both left and right wing think tanks, agree that the route to success and a good lifestyle in the US is based on 3 basic things. Finish high school and be literate. Get a job and stay in work. Don't have children until you are settled in marriage or a settled relationship.
Inner city blacks live in cities that have been under total Democrat control for decades. They rely on 90% of the black vote in elections and preach the identity politics of being victims. They also harbour the 10+ million illegal immigrants in their sanctuary cities, hoping one day they will get to vote for them.
The irony is, that 8 years of Obama did little to help the black community, but in 3.5 years of Trump, he and the black Senator Tim Scott, have instigated big improvements.
He introduced the ,1st Step Act, which freed 1000s of blacks imprisoned under the 1994 crime bill which Joe Biden helped to introduce.
He introduced Opportunity Zones Legislation, which gives tax incentives to investors and has raised 75 billion dollars of private sector funding, which is being invested in 8700 poor communities across the US.
He has funded the Opportunity Scholarship Fund in Washington, which creates Charter schools and scholarships.
The United Negro College Fund, supports historically black colleges and had to annually, go to the White House to ask for funding. Trump and Tim Scott produced legislation that raised the amount given, to 255 million dollars and made the annual fund permanent.
You won't see any of this in the US media or ours for that matter. They only report on Trump's verbal gaffes.
You really need to do your own research to find out what's really going on.
If you're interested, there's currently Senate investigations in progress trying to unravel the Democrat corruption in spying on the Trump administration and the Russian collusion hoax.
BB.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #189
Immigrants?
This is about black people born here and in the US being treated unfairly.
You can’t ‘look it up’. You live amongst it or are black yourself, otherwise it’s all hearsay
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In reply to Post #187
Sometimes if all you have is google searches and a hatred of the Tories with no first hand experience of black culture and communities except articles written by middle class white lefties, you should observe and learn rather than preach. It’s deeper than your political allegiances .
I live in Bolton , it's part of the gateway program for immigrants , look it up ! it is not a hatred of Tories , it's a hatred of corrupt career politicians Labour or Tory , as i have said many many times
Your assumptions are completely wrong !
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In reply to Post #181
do some research and find out
I've done that and could find nothing on riots because a white man had been shot.
In reply to Post #184
Black people only make up 3.3% of the population. Are you sure?
I think you'll find a lot of the statistics (we all know how statistics can be manipulated) are focused in black areas where crime rates are high.
I'm not saying targeting blacks doesn't go on because it does but until the areas I describe are relatively crime free then it will continue to happen
In reply to Post #187
Well put
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #186
Give it a rest ffs
The system in its entirety discriminates and has created the situation where gangs and violent crime may be the only way to survive. This creates the disproportionate figures in use of excessive force, as these are armed and/or dangerous individuals with nothing to lose and no fear of the justice system. Not saying assumptions aren’t made and people targeted by the police for their race, but you won’t get tasered or shot without being antagonistic or aggressive. The figures don’t lie, but they don’t tell the whole story, which is the police can only enforce the law with individuals shaped by society.
Sometimes if all you have is google searches and a hatred of the Tories with no first hand experience of black culture and communities except articles written by middle class white lefties, you should observe and learn rather than preach. It’s deeper than your political allegiances
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Boris is openly racist and has been all his life ,
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In reply to Post #180
Your right
Accepting ethnic groups has come a long way in this country from the Windrush days and will continue to progress. Look at TV programs, rising damp and Alf Garnett times. Things have moved on over time and will continue to do so
Racism will never ever go away because people will never let it drop. One moron could start a riot. Same as using the race card as a get out clause, it’s endless
And for the record some of the coloured folk are the biggest racists about, blacks hate Pakistanis with a passion, they don’t like Indians etc, etc.
My Mrs has had it regular, is it because I’m black, not it’s because you have committed a crime you thick ****!
You want to see Harehills in Leeds, that is a melting pot. I wouldn’t want to walk through there on an evening. Black streets, Pakistani streets, Eastern European streets, guess what, they all hate each other. All the houses have there own armoured gates over the doors, mental. This is just one place where it could kick off. Is racism the underlying motive, probably not, they have not got jobs, they pinch off each other, beat each, knife each other and sell drugs to each other because they have **** all else to do all day. This is the biggest battle, how do you employ probably1 million idiots who do not have the skills or more importantly do not give one in the first place!
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In reply to Post #180
Police are using force disproportionately against black people in England and Wales, statistics released for the first time suggest.
Figures released by the Home Office showed that 12 per cent of incidents involving the use of force that were recorded by police were against black people, who make up only 3.3 per cent of the population.
Black people were involved in proportionally more incidents that involved armed police using guns, at 26 per cent, and 20 per cent of people involved in Taser incidents were black in 2017-18.
White people, who constitute 86 per cent of the population in England and Wales, experienced under three-quarters of use-of-force incidents.
They were also proportionately less likely to be subjected to use of firearms, at 51 per cent or Tasers, at 67 per cent.
Read more
Stop and search has no real impact on knife crime, study says
Government orders council taxpayers to pay extra for policing
Man shot with taser at Parliament detained under Mental Health Act
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Matt Twist, of the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC), said that although the statistics were in their infancy and did not show “a complete picture”, they reflected a wider issue.
“It's something we're aware of,” he added. "As data quality improves it will be the responsibility of police forces to explain why there were disparities ... in use of force, and to act on any issues identified."
Mr Twist said officers make operational assessments to use the “absolute minimum amount of force to resolve a situation”, adding: “They are also using force as you would expect them to, in situations such as arrest or restraint to protect others.”
Around 313 incidents where police officers used force on a person were recorded in the year, with handcuffing and other forms of restraint being the most common type.
Other types of force were “unarmed skills”, ground restraint, improvised, limb or body restraints, spit hoods, dogs, batons and shields.
All there and easy to find , but might contradict your agenda
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In reply to Post #175
Remember the Toxteth riots and the long-standing problems that led to them? Straight after they were quelled Micheal Heseltine was sent up North and made a minister for Merseyside. Investment flowed into the inner city area of Liverpool, improving the area and problems quickly. The old school Tories like Heseltine have been cast out of the modern conservative party unfortunately. Doubt those events led to more racist's.
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Is it right that war memorials are being destroyed and graffiti sprayed on them.Surely that is just going to lead to more unrest and trouble
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In reply to Post #180
You may be right , i don't know , do some research and find out , but what i know for sure is ,you increase your chances of being shot as a criminal or not if you are black !
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In reply to Post #178
If a white man was shot under the same circumstances then I’m sure there would have been the same
I stand to be corrected but I've never known of rioting when a white man is shot
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Whenever a large crowd gathers , for whatever reason , be it Tommy Robinson , poll tax , football match or these latest BLM protest's there will always be a few who want to liven it up ! as we all know and when you have a police force in the uk as in America that is institutionally racist you are going to have civil disobedience every so often ,
following the evidence !
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In reply to Post #177
If a white man was shot under the same circumstances then I’m sure there would have been the same
News coverage. The social side of it is normally discounted entirely. What it boils down to is the people worst off in society, normally profiled and subject to harassment by authority having something happen that breaks them and gives them a cause to latch on to where they can justify making a scene and fighting back.
Akala has a little video with the guy from LBC radio where he talks about being stopped and searched without his rights being read to him at the age of 12. His school teacher gave his class a sheet of paper with their rights on because they KNEW it would happen to the kids and wanted to try and help them somehow. It’s worth watching and goes some way to explaining the anger and resentment for authority a lot of these people have due to the world they live in and experiences they’ve had.
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In reply to Post #176
I remember that it was Reeves furniture shop burnt to a cinder.
The Mark Duggan case, if a white man carrying a gun was shot dead it would've gone largely unnoticed but when it happens to a black man 9 years ago it causes a riot and is back in the news again. To me that doesn't help the BLM cause. Surely the advice is whoever you are don't carry a gun.
Getting stats on who commits these type of crimes and the outcomes is not easy to come by.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #174
I don’t agree with the marching for SD reasons but back the cause.
Those set on causing trouble aren’t doing it for anything other than themselves and a reason to get out of the house to be a ****.
I lived in Croydon at the time of the Mark Duggan fiasco, it had nothing to do with race locally and everything to do with stealing stuff to order and burning down a family business that’d been serving the community for decades.
The world needs to be careful, we don’t have the man power to police a rebellion and the US potentially don’t have the fire power thanks to an age old law that allows you to own a ****ing AR15
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In reply to Post #174
It doesn't help it makes things worse, how are you going to change peoples attitudes towards the cause when this happens, just creates more racists IMO.
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Well, I’ve seen all these ********s rioiting in London, I knew that would happen!
Disgraceful, so much for social distancing, ****ing idiots
That has done nothing for promoting anti racism. They should have blow them all away with water cannons ignorant ****s
That is just purely social unrest
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In reply to Post #172
because I don't take it personally
Echo that
Saying that Tinhead. If we were to have a pint. I would be putting the money in the jukebox!!!
I wonder if Mals hair gets in his pint
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In reply to Post #171
because I don't take it personally
That's the key
I'm sure getting on with people here and getting on in real life would be completely different or the very least a bit different
I mean I do my best to get on with Mal and Scozza but in real life I'd probably murder them
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In reply to Post #170
Hi Sir B,
Thanks for the encouragement.
The abuse I get isn't a problem because I don't take it personally. When people resort to abuse, you know they have lost the argument. But I do find it tiresome, and as you say, having to keep reciprocating my objections to it.
I know the strategy. The leftist tactic to shut down opposition opinion.
That's why they no platform and disrupt meetings by shouting out speakers and setting off fire alarms.
There's a nasty tactic they now employ on US campuses called doxing.
They put photos and names of those they disagree with on social media, so their supporters can attack them.
Thumb.
BB.
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In reply to Post #168
Credit where it's due I think you take the abuse quite well BB, yes if you look back there are a couple of instances where you reciprocate but generally you do rise above it. It can't be easy
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In reply to Post #160
But does Jon get brewers droop and is he intimidated by the dirty pigeons still?
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In reply to Post #167
Hi Sir B and Greekskii,
I quite agree with both of you and said so in my last post, that the abuse I get from our leftist members is now predictable and boring.
It's just insulting criticism with no counter opinion on the actual topic.
As I said earlier, I follow US politics on line and have views and opinions which I'm happy to discuss with those that, in this particular case, want to sensibly discuss the causes and possible remedies of the US riots.
Greekskii, you and others, have written sensible posts that have contributed to the debate without insulting people.
Do you know what Jon's opinion is on the US riots? because I don't. He doesn't say, he just rubbishes opinion he doesn't agree with. Is that sensible debate? I don't think so.
BB.
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In reply to Post #166
Although the picture of being covered in virtual spod mix does sound appealing I've learned a long time ago that requests to stop go unheeded
Borrowed from the other thread I Predict A Riot
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In reply to Post #164
Can you two shut up now? It’s boring. We all might start rioting if you don’t!!
Cast some spod mix at you both or something.
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Populist nationalism ,turning the nation against each other , we now have the worst leaders possible who will descend to to anything to stay in power , even watching the UK and the US jump up the ladder towards fascism ! the usual scapegoats ,lapped up as usual by the same idiots !
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In reply to Post #162
Hi Jon,
In an earlier post you admitted that it was just abusive nonsense.
This post of yours is just more of the same. The repetition is becoming pointless and boring.
You say you sincerely believe that the opinions and ideas I've posted are wrong. Fair enough.
So, rather than continually telling me I'm wrong, tell us what you sincerely believe to be right.
The thread is about the American riots. Give us your opinion as to the causes of this unrest and the suggestions you would put forward to address the problem.
Don't keep ducking the issue. Telling me I'm wrong is only half the answer. Tell us why you think I'm wrong and why you think you're right.
BB.
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In reply to Post #162
What does Jon, parklife?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #159
BB, your unique blend of arrogance and hubris is quite astounding.
Why do you continue to tell me how to think, post, and behave when it must be obvious to even the most casual observer that I have no interest in, or need for your approval?
Far from silencing you, I’m more than happy that you express your opinions - your admiration of Trump, your approval of Johnson, and your belief in Minford. Not to mention your (often mentioned) ire at Abbott.
But this is a forum where people agree and disagree about things, so please don’t tell me I can’t criticize your ideas when I sincerely believe you are wrong …
… It gives me a sense of enormous wellbeing.
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In reply to Post #160
Very funny
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In reply to Post #159
You've just confirmed again why I think it pointless trying to discuss serious issues with you and your left wing colleagues on here. Your post is another stream of ridicule and insult.
Parklife
Not once do you offer any sensible counter arguement to the specific points I make re inner city black social problems.
Parklife
I'm sure it hasn't gone unnoticed that you and others, regularly rubbish opposing opinions in order to try and silence and discredit the valid views of those that disagree with you.
Parklife
It is a standard tactic of the left, because your virtue signalling ideology can't be allowed to be called to account.
Parklife
If you want to be taken seriously, then drop your glib, jester persona and tell us what problems you think inner city blacks in the US face and the policies you would endorse to address them.
Parklife
By the way, yes, there is some intelligent discussion on here, but it's not coming from you.
All the people...
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In reply to Post #151
Hi Jon,
You've just confirmed again why I think it pointless trying to discuss serious issues with you and your left wing colleagues on here. Your post is another stream of ridicule and insult.
Not once do you offer any sensible counter arguement to the specific points I make re inner city black social problems.
I'm sure it hasn't gone unnoticed that you and others, regularly rubbish opposing opinions in order to try and silence and discredit the valid views of those that disagree with you.
It is a standard tactic of the left, because your virtue signalling ideology can't be allowed to be called to account.
If you want to be taken seriously, then drop your glib, jester persona and tell us what problems you think inner city blacks in the US face and the policies you would endorse to address them.
By the way, yes, there is some intelligent discussion on here, but it's not coming from you.
BB.
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In reply to Post #156
Think you have to be very careful when you call ALL anti fascists scum. The groups that call define themselves as ANTIFA as a disguise and then use very facist methods aren’t really ANTIFA are they.
If all anti fascists are scum, then you’ve just insulted any WW1 and 2 veteran. You’ve just called Winston Churchill scum.
ANTIFA is an abbreviation for anti Fascist. There are extreme anti fascists, just as there are extreme right wingers too. Generalisation is something discussed here in the thread already.
I agree that there are groups of idiots that incite violence and anarchy that hide under the guise of the anti fascist monicker and stand for a very extreme views.
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In reply to Post #156
Bang on 👍 not getting into Antifa as I don’t know a lot about them but there does seem to be an awful lot of “ professional “ protesters about,
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In reply to Post #154
Antifa are scum, inverseley facist themselves, encouraging violence and anachy to the detriment of local communities. Seen them here in the UK stirring up hatred in tinderbox communities whilst the lefty types ignore them. Pure scum.
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In reply to Post #153
so please correct me on that if I’m wrong No you're not wrong but if I were to say to someone their ancestors spent longer in the sun then mine then some people might say that's racist.
Anyway there's no need for us drag it out I was just trying to make a point of how careful we all have to be nowadays.
Luckily the young seem to be so much more tolerant and accepting so it will likely die out as time goes on
Yes I'm noticing that is what's happening, each generation a little more tolerant than the previous.
In reply to Post #154
but that’s another subject.
Although I agree maybe leave that for another threadLuckily the young seem to be so much more tolerant and accepting so it will likely die out as time goes on
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In reply to Post #152
That’s exactly my point, treat people as they treat you is how it should be regardless of colour, race, religion or sexual preference, Although I draw the line at middle age hippies from the Wirral 😂, I cant help the era I was born, I wasn’t forced to sit through racist entertainment, it was the norm and acceptable, the ethnicity of the country was still low and one could argue they didn’t have a voice like today to stop such things, but I do get enraged like many of my age group when I see people from other countries coming here to live and then expecting us to bend and appease to the lifestyle they chose to leave, I’m not on about immigrants fleeing war zones although I do raise my eyes when you realise how many safe countries they travel through to get here, but that’s another subject.
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In reply to Post #147
It’s actually proven by science that sun exposure is the cause of different skin colours, maybe should have put a source in:
Now I don’t know if a scientific fact can be racist or not, so please correct me on that if I’m wrong.
To correct racism and the inequalities between races of very very complex. It can’t be done quickly purely based on the fact that anger and resentment do not disappear that quickly. It’s long term support and change that’s required. Commitment to actual meaningful projects and attitude changes that provide equality for all races. I think it has to be addressed via fixing wealth inequality issues (doing this also helps any poor person of any race) because there is people that will say “it’s racist to not help white poor people as well” I had to deal with one such person that had held on to something for 15yrs and uses it to claim white privilege doesn’t exist in the world.
Essentially as a child his football team, mainly white children from a normal area, did not get funding for new facilities but the team from a poorer area, who were mainly BAME, did. He was bitter about it 15yrs later!! His issue was that the poor community got the investment and the better off one didn’t. He got angry when I tried to explain why that proves the point of privilege, in that case white privilege due to the make up of the communities that he stated. Comfortable white person angry that poorer BAME people got invested in over them.
Large side note sorry!!
Back to the main point, the reason it has to be long term change in so many areas is because it’s so multifaceted and ingrained in so many places within society it cannot just be cut out in an instant. It’s hidden everywhere. It only takes a racist person in a position of power in a business or government or wherever to filter it down through the ranks.
As a starting point everyone should be calling out the casual racism, because that’s something we can ALL do and we can ALL create change. Call out your friends/family/parents/colleagues/bosses on it. Don’t be afraid to do it, don’t turn a blind eye to it because you might be cast out of that group of mates, do you really want to be friends with them anyway if that is there ideologies? Educate yourselves and others, read books, watch films, listen to actual victims of racism, all of them, poor/rich or whatever. Ask them questions to define things you might be unsure about. Make sure the future generations see everyone as equal and don’t get subject to parents or grandparents negative ideologies. Luckily the young seem to be so much more tolerant and accepting so it will likely die out as time goes on but we mustn’t let them be influenced by others.
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In reply to Post #149
I get that Jim Maybe the younger amongst us might not though?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #142
Hi Beany,
Glad you're back, I was scared you'd 'got the covids'.
My post was DEFINITELY abusive nonsense.
I enjoy your performance outrage, which started in the Coronavirus thread when you stated that my description of Johnson as 'lazy, unreliable and a liar' was, and I quote, 'gratuitous abuse'. That made me laugh.
Now you may like to order people to watch your carefully selected videos, but I'm not buying it. You try your very best to cultivate your own self image as a right wing intellectual, but you're way off the mark. I imagine you tell people 'I'm on a fishing forum ... they all call me 'the professor', goodness knows why?'
There's plenty of 'intelligent discussion' on this thread, but I'd class your contribution as denial, deflection, downplaying, victim blaming, excuses and not much more.
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In reply to Post #144
Well said James
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In reply to Post #147
I’ve seen the black and white minstrel show on Bournemouth pier, read the book Sambo and the tiger at primary school and also Agatha Christie’s Ten little N***** boys at secondary ( * did that for you Mal 😁 ) laughed at Love thy neighbour. the list goes on and on..... Racist now but quite normal back then. The tolerance levels seem to lessen with each generation, much the same as beating your wife and birching children, bear baiting and public executions, being born in a different era doesn’t make one a racist just not so sensitive as today’s generation
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In reply to Post #145
Hi Greekskii,
My post wasn't directed at you, neither do I think yours was directed at me.
I simply don't know how to delete the reply to thing.
BB.
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In reply to Post #145
their ancestors spent more time in the sun than theirs did
Some people would call that racist but we all know that's not the case with you, just saying
So what can be done about racism. Telling people not to do it doesn't work so what can be done?
It needs change from both sides black and white but the onus seems mostly to be on the white side.
Rioting won't change anything it will just entrench peoples racist views further.
In reply to Post #146
My guess he will be prosecuted for 2nd degree murder. Cops may of got away with it in the past but I can't see it happening this time.
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In reply to Post #144
Probably because charged and prosecuted are two completely different things.
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In reply to Post #142
Not sure why you replied to me BB. My comments were aimed at everyone in the world not you specifically.
It all boils down to one point. Wealth inequality. And you have to look in to WHY that wealth inequality exists. It was around 80-90 years ago that in America white supremacists burnt prosperous black communities, schools, colleges to the ground and set about murdering black people all because they felt they didn’t deserve to be as wealthy or educated than white people. Christ they gave their children the day off school to go and watch a lynching. Black people didn’t have the Level of socio-economic issues they have now before those events unfolded. You can say it’s a “small minority” that did it. But no one stepped in to stop it...so it was the majority. The wealth inequality was created by the white Americans whether they participated in the horrendous crimes or whether they let us happen. Now we are what, one generation or two down the line? You’ll have older aged people who’s parents will have been alive during this, passing on all sorts of ideologies, something witnessed in many grandparents (so much anecdotal evidence for this can be found), hell most of my friends tell me how racist their grandparents are in this country.
Something not to be forgotten is that in the 70s/80s here racism was rife. Many of you are old enough to know that, to have grown up around it, to have witnessed it. Many of you may have even been a part of it in some way. 40/50yrs ago you had people in this country attacking someone else because their ancestors spent more time in the sun than theirs did
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I’m not going to get into an argument regarding race etc, I live in an area which is well below some in respect to ethnicity.... I treat people as they treat me, I have some very good friends who are black, I also work along side members of the Sikh community and have a very good relationship with them, what I have seen on the news is many people jumping on the racism band wagon and using it as an excuse to loot and riot just for the sake of looting and rioting, these people could not give two hoots for the man who lost his life, what happened was wrong, not because it was a black man but because it was a human, in fact I would have felt just as enraged if it happened to an animal, there are far too many people these days play the race card, I’ll give you a perfect example.... Paul Ince ex England footballer was very vocal when black footballers were being subjected to racists chants etc, and rightly so, he was also very critical of John Terry in the argument over what Terry was meant to have called Anton Ferdinand, yet this was the same Paul Ince who when sent off for England against Sweden by the Italian referee Collina was clearly seen to call him as he marched off a “****ing bald *******”... well many would say “ there’s nothing wrong with that is there”, well to me that is just hypocritical of someone playing the race card when to me it’s the same difference....back to the current issue, the policeman has been arrested and charged why the rioting ???
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In reply to Post #140
Gets a bit emotional our Mal at times. I could quite easily see him and a few others being one of these here rioters when it overflows
Sometimes you have to take emotions out of it, it confuses your thinking, take a step back
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In reply to Post #139
Hi All,
I have two points to make.
I'm told I moan if I feel ' insulted ' when someone disagrees with me.
In reply to Post #129
So who exactly is promoting this racism in their daily lives?
Ooh, ooh, I know Sir! I know! Ask me Sir!
Is the answer '****s like you'?
You decide whether this is an intelligent counter arguement or constructive criticism or abusive nonsense.
Insults don't bother me personally, it's just that you can't debate contentious issues with someone who reduces intelligent discussion to a childish bunfight.
Of course racism and inequality exists all over the world and doesn't just apply to white western civilization.
I follow US politics on line and am aware and sympathize with the social problems that affect inner city black communities, and was pleased to see that some of them were being addressed like the introduction of Charter schools. These problems are manifold and complicated and can't be addressed by the one word answer; racism.
Do your own research and watch the vids I suggested and others by Dr. Ben Carson and Coleman Hughes.
These are all highly intelligent blacks who understand the problems that their communities face.
BB.
Edit.
Scozza, re your post, it seems the rioting and looting is being staged by radicals and criminals, using the large gatherings of peaceful protesters as cover after dark.
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I have stepped in a few times when my black employees have attacked a Bangladeshi worker or vice versa. I was called a racist by the black chap, even though my company paid him sick leave previously’ which he was not entitled to.
We dont know if the floyd murder was racist but, the chap didn’t deserve to di that way. Racism is rife here and in many countries especially america and lets not forget south africa. Saying that racism gets called a lot, and nearly alway by ethnic minority. Is that because they bleat about it more, or are they subject to more racism than whites. I can tell you for fact, white people are regularly racially abused, yet seem to laugh it off.
Is that the british humour’ or they cant be bothered to take it further I wonder.
Look at Lee Rigby’ i never thought i’d see the day, when a british soldier would be hacked and beheaded in broad daylight in central london. He wasn’t murdered because of race, he was murdered because he was a soldier.
They didn’t even put a memorial up for him. So for those who say if it had been a white man, there would be uproar’ its not always the case.
If you could see what i’ve seen with racism, you might also agree it will never go away.
At meal times in one factory, the whites all sit together, the asians sit together and the blacks sit together.
As soon as they are integrated, the trouble starts. On a bigger scale, thats what happen in every day life in countries. The majority do not want to mix, a minority maybe’ but the majority will not, because of culture and religion.
These are the issues that will never go away, or put another way racism.
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In reply to Post #137
Hi Scozza I like your post because rather than just blame others for racism you try to analyse the whole world, why it happens and suggest a few starting points to get on the road to reducing it.
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In reply to Post #135
If you don’t challenge racism when you see/hear it then you are part of the problem.
If you deny racism exists absolutely everywhere in the world then you are part of the problem.
If you won’t educate yourself on all levels of racism then you are part of the problem.
Racism exists, and so do racism sympathisers.
And for anyone that says “they could just try harder” you need to educate yourself on racism in recruitment (ingrained from racism in society). There’s a study from 2016 where identical CVs were sent for the same jobs, with only a different name on, based on heritage of the candidate. BAME named candidates were called for interview less than white named candidates, even though they had the EXACT same level of experience and the EXACT same qualifications. The only reason for not getting a call back was their BAME sounding name. We have laws to protect against this but it still happens.
Why should BAME people try harder to have the same opportunity than white people? They should just be on a level playing field.
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In reply to Post #135
Great post.
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In reply to Post #135
Hi Mal,
No rioting about racism around me? Not yet anyway!
The problem is society like I already mentioned way back in this thread. It’s a sad fact that some have it and some don’t but in western life there is an opportunity for everybody, they have to want it and do it, for themselves, that’s the difference. And most of that inspiration needs to be installed in them by the parents, that’s another major flaw
America is in a hole has has been for a long while. How do you control the masses, if you knew you should be president. It’s a fact that some will have and some will not and that’s where a lot of the underlying unrest comes from, I’m sure the former has a large percentage of ethnic groups and are probably seen as second class citizens by a lot of people because of their circumstances. That’s the problem
Take a further step back, look at Africa as a whole, nobody is really interested are they, I don’t see much on the news about what goes off over there on a daily basis? The world turns a blind eye other than the Chinese who are buying it out and exploiting their natural resources. What about the immigration crisis in Europe then, this is all because people want a better life, people see this as a threat, because they want what they have, that’s one of the main root cause of racism when people are challenged.
If everybody in the world had a 9 - 5, a decent salary and a good lifestyle I am quite sure racism would be a thing of the past because there would be no threats to people. Don’t get me wrong you will always get the odd moron but they would stick out like a sore thumb
So you still think having a protest can resolve all this?
And why are people looting, beating up police men, smashing up shops and cars, is this the right thing to do?
Probably anger because of their personal situations and circumstances?
It’s a sad fact that racism does exist and there could be many different motives
There’s another one though for me and that’s playing the race card. Some need to get off their arses and do something about it. What is sad is that the bottom rungs of the ladder are missing for a few, that’s a secure household and a good upbringing. People have choices and options though in western society
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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Seems like a fair summary.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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so
BB can spout his bull**** and pretend racism isn't a problem - and then moan because he's 'insulted' if someone disagrees
Various others can jump on the 'facebook told me so it must be true' bandwagon - changing their view depending on what sh** they've seen in the last ten minutes
Others can say 'well what if he was white - then it wouldn't be a problem would it?' (It would by the way)
Or - 'well it's not a problem where I live' (it is - you just choose not to notice because you have that luxury)
And worst of all - the word n****r (my edit because I refuse to use the word) can be used without being challenged or automatically edited (try writing bolloc*s in a post and see what happens). that is not ok. IT IS NOT OK
and there isn't a race problem in this country?
a man was killed. he was black. his killer was white. and luckily there are people across the world who recognise that black lives matter
if there's a march in my town I will gladly - proudly - walk in it. because black lives matter to me
edit - the site automatically edited bull**** too - but not post 119... That's where we live. That's the ****ing problem
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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I wouldn't dream of insulting Sir B.
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In reply to Post #132
Hi Sir B,
As you can see, this is the ridicule and abusive reaction you get from the radical left when their ideological narrative is questioned with credible evidence.
They cannot accept that opposing opinion can have any credibility, and when challenged, they have to try and discredit it with insults.
BB.
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In reply to Post #131
So that will be the case for all ethnicities then.
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In reply to Post #124
Racist Indoctrinated ideology in our older generation !
and why .
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #129
So who exactly is promoting this racism in their daily lives?
Ooh, ooh, I know Sir! I know! Ask me Sir!
Is the answer '****s like you'?
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In reply to Post #128
Hi Ocelot,
Watch the vids I suggested and review the data and evidence for yourself.
Google the FBI website for the data on homicides and crimes.
The vids are all by intelligent black politicians and commentators, who, I suggest, know their communities and their problems far better than you.
Most inner city blacks live in sanctuary cities that have been totally controlled by Democrat politicians for decades.
So who exactly is promoting this racism in their daily lives?
BB.
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In reply to Post #124
Least of their problems
It's the cause of the problem
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In reply to Post #122
Thank you, sense at last
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In reply to Post #124
Good points mate. I agree, similar to my thoughts, there biggest threat is each other, that’s what’s wrong!
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In reply to Post #121
The question for me is how do we know it was a racial attack. We are assuming it was. He could have don’t that to anybody. If it were a white man I guess it would not have had the same coverage
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In reply to Post #119
Hi Scozza,
The point I'm trying to make is that inner city blacks in the US face a lot of issues, but racism is the least of their problems.
Absent fathers, welfare dependant poverty, bad schooling, lack of opportunity are some of the real issues they face. Young, disaffected black men often turn to crime to raise their status, which, in part, explains why there are a disproportionate number of blacks in prison, and in confrontations with police.
Re available jobs, there is another issue they face and that is competition from illegal immigration.
There are over 10 million illegal immigrants in the US and most of them live under the protection of Democrat politicians in sanctuary cities. They compete with blacks for unskilled work, which has had the effect of a suppression of wages.
Obama was complicit in this with his " catch and release " policy on immigration. It worked like this.
Border force would catch immigrants, illegally crossing the border. They would then go before court and be told to attend court at a future date to hear their asylum application. They were then released into the community and probably made for the sanctuary city of their choice and disappeared. The system was akin to having open borders.
Unfortunately, these riots based on racism and victimhood will be a big setback to the policies being implemented to address the real issues that inner city blacks face.
BB.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #121
Can’t see the link as I’m not on FB, that’s a lot of ‘facts’ for one link though
Apparently he was Covid positive I read.. Christ it went from bad to worse for the bloke
link
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In reply to Post #121
Looks like you link has been taken down
In reply to Post #117
and you know that because you're not an idiot.
Oh yes he is (said in a pantomime voice)
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In reply to Post #120
So the truth is coming out like it normally does... and yes he did beat up a pregnant woman, his rap sheet is awful, he is NOT a hero or a martyr, he was off his face on crystal meth.
watch
I accept your apology 'Mal'.
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In reply to Post #117
I try my best Mal
Not just as big as you
There’s the difference between you and me. You speak up about it, I just get on with it. Like I said in a post below, it’s embed in people and not something you can just turn off or cancel out. There is a lot of underlying motivation and not something be can be changed, you can try with education but the first time rage raises its ugly head so will the racism because it deeply embedded in us
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In reply to Post #115
Exactly that BB
Same when it’s alright to sing about n****rs and call each other n****rs but if a white man were to do it that would be a completely different situation all together. In a lot of cases it could be a fine line to tread
Black on black is massive and again fuelled by limited opportunities and a way to fast cash through drugs and then defending ones patch with knives, guns and beatings. How many innocent people have been killed in the crossfire. There’s some racial motivation for the bereaved families
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In reply to Post #114
I probably read that thread mate but I can’t say I picked up on it or saw it. I skip read a lot of stuff though
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #112
scozza you are a d*ck at times
just because it doesn't directly affect you doesn't mean it's not wrong. and you know that because you're not an idiot.
Here's hoping that you are never the victim of a crime of any sort. imagine if the local constabulary were to say to you
'Ffs there are thousands of crimes a week that fall in many different category’s' ....
I'll say that your point about where we live is an interesting one. Where I live is very mixed in terms of race and culture and I see good and bad in terms of that community. I celebrate the good. and importantly, I condemn the bad and I will speak up against it as it's the right thing to do. I love living in a multi-cultural environment and my life is better for it.
For some it's easy to stick their head in the sand - but let's face it, with my hair it would be a real nightmare.
edit - tinhead, it was a 2 second google search to help scozza out of his dreamland. and yes - even 1 is too many
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In reply to Post #114
I wasn't aware to be honest I know it's about bait but I don't even know what UCN stands for.
There's enough drama on here I don't need any about bait
Edit
Just googled it's Ultimate Carp Nutrition that banned Dean chap is involved with.
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In reply to Post #112
Hi Scozza,
You raise an important point re black on black crime.
In the US, 70% of black homicides are committed by other blacks.
Nothing to do with racism.
BB.
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In reply to Post #109
Maybe you weren’t but I thought everyone was on the UCN threads.
You do live here though!! Part of the furniture after 5000 posts!
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In reply to Post #111
Disgusting a grown a man doing that to a kid, I wonder if he'd do that to someone his own size, however you did have to go back 3 months to find that one so maybe for Scozza it would've gone unnoticed?
As we will agree though that's one too many.
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In reply to Post #111
Lay off the social media Mal, you are getting paranoid
Ffs there are thousands of crimes a week that fall in many different category’s
Racism falls under hate crimes which is a wide spectrum. It would be nice to see the real stats. What I see on the news, black on black is a bigger concern, drugs and knifes, not good.
I’ve said it before in other threads. The next War will probably be race and religion. Look at the area where you live. Places like that are a melting pot I guess. Around me, not to bad thankfully
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #109
https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2020-03-10/sheffield-man-jailed-for-six-months-after-vile-racist-attack-on-child/
there you go mate - or do you need it to be on your street?
I'm not being pedantic and I'm not saying that other crimes don't happen. But apparently there's no racism in South Yorkshire...
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In reply to Post #88
That’s a good post that Keebs
I think it’s deeply emended in us, and it is
Right from the crusades with the Muslims and the rest of the goings on really. Human nature that when the chips are down and we are up against it we want blood, often at all costs, race, religion (don’t get me going on that one) and a whole host of other nasty stuff. Covid 19 has took us into extremely testing times and a lockdown has just fuelled this anger in many
Also what is deeply embed is the skinny white man will see the big black man as a threat in most cases. Or any other race that threatens his map of life and the lifestyle
Once read a piece on psychology and it mentioned that how many times have we gone on holiday and criticised the local culture, food and people as being foreign, bloody foreigners! when we are the foreigners in their country!!!
It’s deeply embedded in our genes from our ancestors
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In reply to Post #91
Can’t say I remember that
I was on about where I live mate if I’m honest
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In reply to Post #106
Yes I agree you are talking cobblers.
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In reply to Post #96
Hi Not,
Yes I agree. Dr. Thomas Sowell is a highly regarded scholar, but is now in his 80's and retired from academia.
Those that I referred to in my post 60, Larry Elder, Senator Tim Scott and Candace Owens are continuing his views on racism and black politics, and I repeat, if anyone wants factual and detailed data on this issue, then watch the U tube vids I suggested. The evidence shows that blacks are not targeted by police and that far more whites are killed in police incidents.
Many commentators agree that the biggest problem facing inner city blacks is father absence.
75% of black families are mother only and live on welfare. All social data shows that children raised by both parents perform far better than those raised by one parent. The poor quality of inner city schools is also a major problem. Trump in conjunction with Senator Tim Scott is trying to address this issue with the introduction of, what are called Charter schools, which give black kids a far better education.
They are also trying to introduce vouchers for black parents, which enable them to choose better schools for their kids to attend.
Watch the vids and do your own research. You will see the reality is far different from just a narrative of racism.
BB.
Edit. Another interesting vid on U tube to watch.
The Rubin Report, the Myth of Systemic Racism pt.2 with Coleman Hughes.
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In reply to Post #104
It's not my fault I'm a racist I was born this way
Cobbler's.
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In reply to Post #102
I agree with you
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In reply to Post #103
Or more importantly they were born with different personalities and traits.
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In reply to Post #100
They would have both "learned" it in your words, from their racist father. One accepted that's the way to be and one rejected it.
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In reply to Post #101
I think we're all saying the same thing.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #100
I'd agree with that tinhead - I'd put it simply that we need 'different' living together.
If only the world could see it that way.
edit - Learned behaviour is dependent on lots of factors. We learn from lots of sources and our own feelings and thoughts are that individual factor. Some people will follow suit and some will kick against.
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In reply to Post #94
We do have instinctive fears but we also have instinctive curiosity about difference.
Depends on the individual. If we were all the same our species would not exist we need people with different personalities and traits to survive. For example we need risk takers to get thing done and non risk takers to take their place when they die from the dangers they put themselves in. We need natural leaders to lead and others who are happy to be told. We will have people who are wary of people who are different from themselves and others who are not.
Just a few the list goes on.
As for racism being learned my father in law was a racist and so is his son by his daughter is not. How did one learn it and not the other? Different personalities?
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 4271 | | |
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In reply to Post #97
Have you done the 'Paki's just an abbreviation, same as Brit' one yet?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #95
just seen on the News that he will be charged with 2nd degree
The others who were present also being charged with aiding and abetting I think
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In reply to Post #89
Hundreds of little girls get gang raped too, but hardly even a whisper.... It's not funny anymore is it.
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In reply to Post #60
Thomas Sowell is a genius, and extremely clever man, I've read most of his books. Not only is he clear minded, he is able to explain statistics and economics to make it understandable, a bit like Richard Feynman. And being a black man, he see through the bullpoo that's being said by the white liberals. The white do goody liverals do more harm than good, and he goes into that it detail.
Sadly though i don't think the Antifa ridden education systems and social platforms will allow this black voice to be heard in future!
There is nothing worse than some white liberal teacher who thinks he is a hippy trying to even SLIGHTLY understand black men and what they aspire to.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #93
Agree with all of that, but what you describe is 2nd degree murder as far as I’m aware. Intentional, but not premeditated. Still carries a hefty sentence luckily
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #90
I don't think he'll be charged with 1st degree either. But he should be convicted of 2nd degree murder as it's clear his actions killed a man.
Keebs, I have to disagree. We are not born racist. We do have instinctive fears but we also have instinctive curiosity about difference. Look at the way children are with each other and how they will happily play with anyone regardless of colour or creed. Racism is a learned behaviour - which means it can be addressed if enough of us keep trying.
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I don’t think the police officer who was kneeling on floyds neck, woke up thinking of murder but, during the ordeal’ he was seen kneeling down harder, even after bystanders told him that floyd was dying. Even a paramedic lost his temper with said policeman when he arrived on the scene.
The police kept telling floyd to get up and get in the car, even though three of them were on top of him. Floyd was also motionless without a pulse for the last 3 mins of the restraint. One of those *******s must have realised he wasn’t breathing.
The policeman who knelt on floyds neck has a very shadey past in the force, and probably should have been fired way back.
His colleague, the one who looks chinese or mixed chinese race, also has a similar record in the force.
There was no need for such restraint, floyd fell or dived to the floor as some police claim but’ he was not struggling or being violent.
The officer who did the kneeling and floyd served different shifts as security, maybe they have history, and the policeman took action against floyd while he had backup instead of facing him alone.
Whatever the reason, the man, black, brown, yellow, pink or white’ did not deserve to die in that way.
I read yesterday, that the neck restraint method has caused at least 40 incidents where suspects have passed out, and other medical issues have taken place during restraint. Why didn’t they taser him instead.
I hope all the police involved get what they deserve.
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In reply to Post #90
Agreed and I said it earlier while he had his knee on his neck and the other cops formed a barrier they probably thought they had the situation under control. I'm not using that as an excuse by the way, far from it, IT WAS WRONG!
What I'd like to understand is how did presenting fake bank notes in a shop lead to this. Surely the shop keeper would just not accept them, what happened that caused the police to be called?
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In reply to Post #81
Scozza, pretty sure you were on the thread where I was subject to derogatory comments based on my ethnic background by another member on this forum, who subsequently got banned. That was racism, so it has happened around you.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #87
I don’t think it was premeditated murder, doubtful he woke up that day and planned whatever events led to George Floyd being detained and subsequently asphyxiated.
More a case of strength in numbers and an opportunity to throw his little bit of weight around with a bloke who was known to him and would ordinarily snap him like a twig, who knows there may have been history there? That’s not to say that all the coppers shouldn’t be getting their ringers opened in jail, but it would be really difficult to premeditate the situation on video.
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Unbelievable.......piers Morgan now dragging race into the Megan McCann disappearance stating if it was a black girl there would not have been the same media attention........how the **** can he state that.......hundreds of kids go missing with no media attention every year!!!
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I actually believe racism is inherent in ALL our DNA, fear/suspicion of difference is part of our natural defence mechanism, necessary for survival. It’s deep rooted in our instinct.
Years of education and moral code have trained us to ignore that perceived “threat” as (theoretically!) it is no longer relevant to our society and even to be ashamed by it.
We’ve all decided to live together in harmony right, so we need to buy into it.
Varying levels of education results in differing levels of success in suppressing that instinct.
I agree education is the answer, but only if that education is applied equally throughout the world and racism even (waaaaay!!!) more socially stigmatised than it is now.
We’re trying to educate out our own nature and that is going to take some serious effort!
Does anyone really think that if black folks were winning this sh!t-race, that white folks wouldn’t be looting, stabbing and shooting? Swap the colours round all you like.
While there are those who can and will take advantage of the situation it will not happen.
Human nature.
All our problems have one root I’m afraid - trying to deny or control nature - including our own.
Uncomfortable thought I know.
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What happened with George Floyd, is first degree murder’ simple as that.
The ******* kneeling on his neck should go through a full murder trial, with a mixed race jury and bench. He has lots of history with warnings, mainly violence and abuse. Even the paramedics were disgusted with him and chums.
I was listening to LBC this afternoon’ and a black chap phoned in telling his story. He said when he was young he never experienced racism for years, until he started work, and boom he was quickly aware of it. Snide comments offered with a giggle, exclusion’ and gradually it was more obvious.
He became very good in his field, and is now late 40’s wealthy and leads a good life but’ the racism is still there probably worse than ever. He went onto say, that the uk is not equipped socially or mentally toward ethnic groups.
He suggested that blacks, asians etc, should live in countries with their own kind, even british born ethnics.
He was questioned why, and he said because this country offers great education and healthcare but’ the racism is as bad, if not worse than ever.
He said, in his opinion, racism will never go away, ever!
I said the same in a post a while back, and was accused of bigotry and racism, by Mal and his mate.
I would like to see racism gone because of the money it has cost me. I really can’t see it happen though, and especially in America, it is more blatant there now than ever.
It works both ways to’ a jamaican women is claiming corona virus was man made to eradicate blacks and other ethnic races.
One thing is for sure though, the copper that murdered floyd should pay the price, nobody deserves that, even over a suspected fake bank note.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #85
Hi BB
You sound like Trump
Blaming racial oppression on Democrats. Seriously? Somewhere - way way far from what you are posting - is the real point to the matter.
I have no idea whether Chauvin voted Democrat or Republican because it simply doesn't matter. What matters is that yet another black man died wrongly at the hands of a white policeman.
I'm sorry if you feel insulted or abused. It's the political points scoring that is ******** - not you as an individual.
Let's be honest there's a bigger picture than your fragile ego tonight - real abuse, and generations of insult. I mentioned earlier that some of the Confederate statues were being taken down. Imagine that insult - to you and your ancestors and children. A great big memorial to those who wanted to preserve the white man's right to enslave the black man.
I do promote peace and love - still do. Look at the news and you'll see why it's necessary rather than trying to defend a man who promotes the opposite.
You'll have to excuse my passionate response but this matters
Mal
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In reply to Post #77
Hi Mal,
I came back on to point out to those that were interested, that there are other facts to this issue that are not being addressed on this thread.
My reference to Democrats, was simply to point out that most cities with a large population of blacks are controlled by them and have been for decades. As you know, States are run by State politicians, who are directly responsible for the welfare of their citizens, and control their own police forces etc.
I think it is reasonable to suggest that those Democrat politicians take the responsibility for the poverty and bad schooling of their black communities.
You have just confirmed why I have chosen to stay off these threads.
You and others can't discuss an issue without resorting to insults.
You go under the banner of peace and love, but you still have the capacity to mock and give abuse.
BB.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #83
gotta have great conditioning with my hair...
In response to your edit - you might as well be saying 'some of my best mates are black / muslim / gay / whatever. It's purely anecdotal and not a reflection of the centuries of racial oppression that other cultures have endured and still do. I've posted before about my run in with the d-head white supremists at my local KFC - and I've challenged black kids at school for using the term 'pikey' and 'gippo'. None of those instances mean that racism isn't an institutionalised problem here and across the world - they just show that it IS a problem
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In reply to Post #82
You watch too much TV Mal. Human conditioning
Edit
For the record I have worked with a lot of ethnic groups and some of the biggest racists are these, probably down to years of persecution but none the less, the worst by FAR!
I worked with one bloke who was one of the key players in the Trojan horse story, schools in Bradford, Asian rule was it, they were interviewing him outside the workplace, soon went missing in action when he got his collar felt!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #81
well - at the risk of sounding pissy....
take off your blinkers and open your bloody eyes...
edit - for scozza ...
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/george-floyd-uk-racism
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In reply to Post #80
Not that I see around me?
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #78
because racism happens everywhere you daft git
edit - tinhead I know that. boomshanka
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In reply to Post #77
I'm not get getting pissy with you Mal I'm bailing out for tonight because I've had experience of making comments and portraying myself as something that I'm not
Edit
The fact that you think things are getting pissy is an example of how things don't always come across right on a forum
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In reply to Post #75
So how does that warrant a protest in York for something that happened in America!
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #74
that's why i said 'disproportionately'
let's not us get pissy with each other - have a read of that article. It's not from a political leaning newspaper and it's got some real food for thought in it.
edit - BB did you really come out of your bunker just to spout ********? Democrats can be racist too? is that your point? well done. point made.
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In reply to Post #72
8 years of a black president didn't promote much change to the issue.
I liked the man, impeccable image. Other than shoot Bin Laden, if they really did, what has he done, nothing really like you say
You look at history and the world and all the big ones come and go, look at Rome, Chi (China) and all the rest. For me the US is in a predicament and has been for a while. Running a country for me is no different to a business there has to be some payback to make it work. I think America is on the verge of falling into a proper hole. Mind you though at least Trump is trying to create jobs, tax the world for imports (reducing American jobs) and encourage manufacturers in the USA
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #70
tried for their crimes
not selective at all
racism isn't rendered obsolete because some people of different ethnicity commit crimes.
and it's not a problem that is just because of lockdown.
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In reply to Post #67
Before your edit
A society that disproportionately imprisons black men
Maybe because they break the law more?
I'm bailing out of this thread for tonight because years of experience on forums has taught me that it's very easy for others to get the wrong opinions of others for example me.
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In reply to Post #71
Disagree, there are lots of people with **** haircuts, especially at the moment
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In reply to Post #65
Hi Sir B,
75% of families of inner city blacks in the US are mother only and on welfare. Nothing is done by their Democrat politicians to address the issue of absent fathers.
8 years of a black president didn't promote much change to the issue.
BB.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #69
Exactly.. imagine how small that minority is
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In reply to Post #67
How about the Albanian woman that murdered a child in Bolton the other month Mal
How about the back man that murdered Lee Rigby
It’s selective and like i said, there is a hell of a lot of tension and unrest at the moment! That’s the real problem
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #68
and he's orange
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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Just to point out Trump can’t be racist.... he was on a method man album
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #65
agreed - and with scozza too in that poverty of opportunity is a huge factor too
widen your gaze a bit on the absent father scenario... A society that disproportionately imprisons black men leaves more black boys without fathers... who then may grow up with a mistrust of that society and the vicious circle repeats
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In reply to Post #65
Must admit, similar thoughts to me that. The parents are the starting point, they need to inspire and provide the kids with some motivation and ambition for one. For a lot, just like you say it easier to just give up and complain sadly
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In reply to Post #59
Yes definitely and one other important factor that affects all colours is poor parenting.
If the dad has ****ed off or is in prison, the other parent smokes weed all day what chance have the kids got.
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In reply to Post #60
I think everybody is aware of the States, it’ has been discussed below, it runs very deep still
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In reply to Post #61
Exactly that Wayne, it’s about giving people a chance in life.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #58
'your mate' was meant figuratively. substitute 'people you know' and that's my meaning.
Anecdotal experience is always going to impact our views - the lads at your house were disrespectful - but not because they were black. Like you say, a lack of father figure is just as likely a factor.
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/george-floyd-uk-racism
This is a good read if you have some time and interest. It veers into the political a bit (but that's unavoidable as racial issues and politics are inextricably linked)
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In reply to Post #59
**** loads of people of different ethnicity live in them conditions!! It’s not exclusive to 1 ethnic group.
I see London is now having a few incidents this evening and I’m sure ALL racist attacks will go unreported apart from the ones that potentially stir the **** storm even more!
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In reply to Post #55
Hi Sir B,
If you want more info and facts re racism in the US then go on U tube and watch The Rubin Report, Black Lives Matter with Larry Elder.
If you want to know what Trump has done, so far, for blacks and other minorities then watch ABC News Senator Tim Scott on Biden's You ain't black comment.
Those two have other vids on the issue as have Dr Thomas Sowell and Candace Owens.
And by the way, they are all black.
BB.
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In reply to Post #58
I think the social deprivation, education and the lack of jobs is one of the main motivations sadly
Extremely difficult one to tackle but if everybody had an opportunity in life a lot of people would be in a different place for me
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In reply to Post #56
I've had two young black men stay at my house (not at the same time) and they were both disrespectful, pity you weren't there to tell them what they were doing was wrong, I won't go into detail unless you ask but both did not have father figures in their lives and they weren't about to listen to me. Needless to say they do have racial problems.
So I don't live in a bubble which maybe is the impression I'm giving.
PS
just because your mate is ok doesn't mean everyone is - far from it.
It's not one person it's many families
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My underlying point which I did not mention, I thought was obvious, we are in lockdown, thousands are dying and the world is protesting. A lot of this is purely down to unrest for me
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #55
being a teacher I encourage people to look beyond their own 'circles' - ignorance is bliss if your life is comfortable. it's still ignorance though.
just because your mate is ok doesn't mean everyone is - far from it.
edit - that sounds really blunt. but you know what I mean - 'your mate' in the widest context rather than just you and your fellow deluded gooners...
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In reply to Post #54
Depends what circles you mix in I suppose I know plenty of black people who have no problems whatsoever.
You being a teacher probably meet people who make more wrong life choices.
and 'not as much' is still too much
Agreed
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #53
of course it is
it might manifest itself in different ways but it's part of UK daily life as much as the US.
people are very good at not paying attention to things that are difficult and might mean a change to their world...
and 'not as much' is still too much
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In reply to Post #51
doesn't mean it's not happening
But is it happening much?
In todays world it can't be that difficult to bring it to our attention.
In reply to Post #50
It’s America. I don’t belive we have the same problems here do we?
No not as much
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In reply to Post #50
It goes both ways nowadays with racism! Anyway......The end is nigh......
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #50
you are
wrong that is
just because it's easy for you not to see it - doesn't mean it's not happening
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In reply to Post #49
It’s America. I don’t belive we have the same problems here do we?
Think I might get 5,000 to smash Leeds up because in South Africa somebody got beat up by a black man today. Same perspective to me. It’s got virtually nothing to do with people over here, I can’t see that we have the same problems?
Could be wrong
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #48
You're right mate - It does go on everyday - that's the point.
The problem is that it will continue to go on everyday unless people come together to do something about it. Something needs to change and I absolutely hope that this might be a turning point.
If you just shrug your shoulders and say 'it happens all the time / it's been happening for years / people will never change' etc. then you're not part of the solution - which makes you part of the problem. (not YOU specifically - you get my point yeah?)
Peace and Love mate.
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In reply to Post #47
Mal,
Stuff goes on like this EVERYDAY, that’s the reality
I’m listening to the one show now. We need to look at racism and gun crimes, I am totally with it, the biggest battle is the dickheads carrying the guns and knives in the first place, would you want to deal with them?
If you are dealing with people who are tooled up, I’m sorry but the first thing you need to protect is yourself, **** protocol and regulations when it comes down to the crunch. What happened is terrible but more is coming out as it goes along. What the officer did was a racist and dominant act as I see it on TV. I can tell you this though. If it was me or him, it would be him
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #45
Come on Scozza - are they idiots because they feel strongly about racism?
is that not 'excuse' enough?
more power to them I say. Towns with a predominantly white middle class demographic need to show their support in the same way as anywhere else.
The US defence secretary has opposed the sending in of military troops - a bit of sense prevailing there. As a wise man once said, 'violence begets violence' and the people closest to George Floyd are continually asking for a peaceful approach.
And Confederate statues are coming down - some organised with town / city officials rathe than just being torn down. Some positive change is happening at least
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The LA riots in 92 were pretty rough. Over 60 dead, only stopped when the National Guard were called in.
Get them in now I say.
Oh how about the riots on LA in the 60s, they were pretty rough too.
Actually there's been riots in The States for many many decades, it really does not matter who is president they will always happen.
These riots are nothing to do with Trump, he just happens to be the current president. But there again I am looking at it without any political ideology, just looking for what it is.
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American riots are one thing. Just seen on the news there will be a protest in York. What a bunch of ****ing idiots some people are, any excuse
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In reply to Post #42
"i can't wait , i hope Harry didn't throw his wand away !"
pmsl
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In reply to Post #39
I cant, i'm learning to play Nothing else matters on the ol' 6 string and my wrists ache now.
But i think we are heading to religious war, not class, no anti-cap v cap, nor race either - but.. not until the western world is in total disarray and are skint through hyper-inflation, and weakened
The rest is written below in invisible font, pickle.
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In reply to Post #37
Come on Not , i'm all excited , it's Lord Voldermort isn't it , i can't wait , i hope Harry didn't throw his wand away !
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #40
he's an utter disgrace - getting his stormtroopers to tear gas and fire rubber bullets at peaceful protesters so he can walk to a church for a photo opportunity.
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In reply to Post #38
Trump is just trying to show how powerful and manly he is by getting his jack boots to do his dirty work , and the racist idiots feel all warm , cosy and safe again !
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Not ,
please , give us your theory on where we are heading , i'm all ears !
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In reply to Post #37
This is nothing about Left v Right, it's WAY beyond that. This is about something far darker.
Yep!...........Still trying to figure out Trump and the Bible??
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In reply to Post #33
This is nothing about Left v Right, it's WAY beyond that. This is about something far darker.
I know Left wingers are shouty and abusive and I know that Right wingers are stubborn and tough when wound up, that's all you need to know.
What's happening in the world though is far more complex and far more dodgy than arguing over duck ponds and sex scandals.
We ALL need to grow up and start taken personal accountability, from things you say on a forum to dodgy tax returns....
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In reply to Post #35
Are you 12 years old??
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #32
The Jane Elliot one in particular is simple and powerful
edit - hang on everyone. nobody has been paying attention to the silly boy in the corner and he's doing his usual. Let's all stop for a moment and look at his silly antics. and then we can get on with what's important again.
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In reply to Post #33
You lefties make me laugh......and yawn......
SS tell the POTUS when he is going into the bunker....Inspecting it or not....Trump will get the job done over there and if that means bringing in the military to stop the ****s destroying the place then so be it!!! There peaceful demonstrations are a guise for some to start rioting and hopefully he flattens them!!
Hopefully the same applies this weekend when people take to the streets of London, **** knows why they are but sheeple do act in a weird and wonderful ways especially if the UK Media start making a meal out of years and years of US police racism like they are when its **** all to do with us.......
When i Watched the BBC news last night for a laugh it was so apparent they hate Trump and the misreporting was aligned to there similar bull**** stories ref Brexit, DC and anything else Conservative.......
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Apparently , Trump did not go to his bunker to hide ,on Friday night , he went to inspect it , , maybe he went to test his eye sight also , right wing populist ar*ehole , willing to sacrifice his country for political gain , sound familiar !
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #29
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In reply to Post #28
I think Spike Lee said it well...
"The land was stolen from native people, genocide was committed against the native people, and ancestors were stolen from Africa and brought here to work," he said.
"So the foundation of the United States of America is genocide, stealing land and slavery.
"Any architect will tell you that if you don't have a strong foundation, the building's going to be shaky, and shaky from day one... This original sin has not been dealt with since the birth of this country."
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #27
of course America is screwed - look at the actions / words of the idiot they elected!
the real tragedy is that it will continue to be those with less - less wealth, less power, less opportunity - who will be the most screwed yet again.
I genuinely hope and pray that this is the start of a real change - but it's centuries old in it's rottenness
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Interesting perspective I got sent the other day.
https://eand.co/im-not-that-i-m-negative-america-really-is-screwed-13b47653e4ed
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In reply to Post #25
This one too, caught on camera spraying BLM on shops.
caught out again
Listen to what the black lady say's to her - she's bang on.
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In reply to Post #23
Another Antifa trying to start a Riot.
https://youtu.be/qv-O4rnUToU
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In reply to Post #23
All day long.
When the tinder's that dry it don't need much spark.
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In reply to Post #22
Looks like most of the the riots have been setup and agitated by the loony "ANITFA" group.
Seem like the protesters are sussing it out. There were pallets of bricks appearing randomly on corners with white men and women all in black, totally masked up telling the protesters were the bricks were.
A couple of vids showing them being sussed out, the 3rd one is almost sinister, who's paying these people to do this??
Antifa caught out1
Antifa caught out2
Antifa caught out3
There's a lot more, but if you don't believe then there's no hope.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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contrast the words of George Floyd's brother today with those of Trump...
One asking for peaceful protest and justice and an end to the looting and destruction - the other calling state governors 'weak' and'jerks' while saying they should 'dominate' and threatening to deploy the airborne military...
Watched the statement from the coroners inquiry which has found that he was murdered and he died of asphyxiation due to the pressure on his neck AND on his back
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Either way it's disgusting how that poor chap died and is completely unacceptable.
USA is on the brink of civil war and tbh, I think its not surprising before real change is seen.
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In reply to Post #16
I think you’re the only one who seems to think this about what he did. Everyone else, including the American law system seem to be saying a suspected fake $20 note.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #16
He should have been tried for his offences whatever they were. And he was unarmed.
As for the part of my post you repeated. It's all still true regardless of what he did or didn't do. One man committing a crime doesn't excuse his death and it definitely doesn't excuse centuries of racism you berk.
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In reply to Post #17
"I tried googling but could only find stuff about migrants."
You wont find it, it'll be "there" but it wont be easy to find - and there's a reason for it.
The whole global society has transitioned over to being 'run' by technology, and there's some people who can control this technology.
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Anyone know how many US citizen deaths they've been in US custody in recent years?
I tried googling but could only find stuff about migrants.
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In reply to Post #5
"Years and years of oppression and bigotry. Hugely disproportionate levels of employment and distribution of wealth. Dozens of unreported assaults, attacks and worse"
The bloke who died had just beaten up a pregnant women and was armed with a pistol.
FFS.
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In reply to Post #14
Wait until JayZ is president everything will be cushty 👍
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #12
Obama did nothing?
Look up My Brothers Keeper. Or Obamacare. Or the JOBS Act. Or what he did to protect ethnic minority homeowners. Or the overall impact on employment and working rights. I could go on but this should do you for a start....
He did a hell of a lot whilst within a society that still thinks it's ok to persecute a man because of his skin colour.
Noj - agreed. But the hard work is undone on a daily basis by those in power who choose to maintain the oppressive status quo for their own agenda in a way more damaging way than angry rioters...
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #11
Agree completely mate, their system is broken... well, it was never intact to break.
But when your hard work is being undermined by morons it makes matters harder.
I feel for black Americans, they have been born into a real struggle. I also feel for the minority of police and politicians with good intentions who are tarred with the same brush as racists because of a job title
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In reply to Post #11
So why did Obama do nothing about it in his eight years as president.
It doesn't matter who is in charge, or what they do or say. It will always be the same in The States. Always.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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In reply to Post #9
The speech says it all. He disapproved of violence. Would have condemned rioting and looting.
As for change taking generations, it's 5 decades since his speech. Plus the decades before that ... how many generations do they bloody need?
While Trump can tell black Americans to go back where they came from there's little point in asking the White House for change....
You're right that there will be those who jump on it as an opportunity for something else but the root problem remains and it's not going away while white politicians exploit the nasty undercurrent for their own gains.
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In reply to Post #9
Agree
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #8
What do you think he’d have said about looting and burning of property?
I think it makes a mockery of the hard work put in by others. I understand the anger and frustration, but outside of peaceful protest or better yet political change (which takes generations) it’s basically an excuse for ****s to be ****s
Will also be ironic if the mob stood shoulder to shoulder in Trafalgar Square holding up ‘I can’t breathe’ signs die of respiratory failure from Covid
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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https://youtu.be/vP4iY1TtS3s
I have a dream. 6 minutes and 46 seconds. Or 2 minutes less than Chauvin had his knee on George Floyds neck.
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In reply to Post #5
When they start a looting we start a shooting. Trumps post was taken down by Twitter
He has a point though
You right though with the years or oppression, lack of jobs and this Covid carry on I guess a lot of them have had enough, never mind Trump, its a bit of a melting pot anyway imho
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Latest to be seen on Facebook is of a police officer in California punching a 14 year old and mauling him around the floor.
Disgusting.
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| | | mal | | Posts: 8986 | | |
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Years and years of oppression and bigotry. Hugely disproportionate levels of employment and distribution of wealth. Dozens of unreported assaults, attacks and worse
And a man at the top who repeatedly uses racist and inflammatory language
It's a tinderbox on a daily basis and this is hardly surprising.
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In reply to Post #1
Police posing as rioters and smashing windows to incite violence.
Sounds like fake news to me.
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In reply to Post #2
There will be plenty of chaps down the road to quash any looting if they try it. It happened in 2011 and hopefully it would happen again if the need arised.
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In reply to Post #1
Protests in Peckham last night
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Been watching these with interest over the past few nights. There is no sign of it receding, and it would not surprise me if it spilled over here. It just needs one spark, one tweet, one snapchat, one death. The stuff going unreported is surreal. The Fedex Truck, store owners being beaten to within an inch of their life for protecting businesses, Police posing as rioters and smashing windows to incite violence....It's there in black and white, yet the media are quite happy just to stand around, praying they see a black kid run out of a shop with a handbag under their arm. This has all the makings of a long heated summer, which can no doubt be exacerbated by social media.
Meanwhile, in the UK, the top story is about a female MP breaking lockdown rules to get bent over a sofa by a married bloke
We are living in an episode of black mirror.
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