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   Old Thread  #81 1 Nov 2011 at 5.58pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #79
Micronising is heat treating (cooking to a point) with infa red heat before the hemp/soya is crushed or milled.

Infa red heats from the inside out so youre basically cooking the flesh it in its own juices.
Its something they do to make horse and cattle feed more digestible

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   Old Thread  #80 1 Nov 2011 at 5.18pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #76
No issue with you at all Nellie. You asked a perfectly reasonable question and now thanks to Ken have your answer. I would go with that recipe as a base and you can always add your own tweaks as Pete recommends. As he used to run a reputable bait firm I would be more than happy to run with that base mix

It was just that I was being pulled up for a post that went off on a tangent (although still relevant to the thread!) as if it was a subject never before discussed!
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   Old Thread  #79 1 Nov 2011 at 4.58pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #78
Micronised crushed hemp

Could you tell me what the micronised part is all about ken?

Does it literally mean ultra fine powder?
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   Old Thread  #78 1 Nov 2011 at 4.54pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #77
12 minutes and the Harry Potter for find old threads strikes.



EDIT 10 minutes.
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   Old Thread  #76 1 Nov 2011 at 4.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #72
This topic has been done to death though. In my opinion the definitive recipe was put up by Smurf ages ago so don't see why we need another one?

Any idea where the recipe is? Its probably lost in the thousands of pages devoted to bait making.

The idea i had for this thread was after finding a recipie from 2008 i think, and thought it should have been put up for others to see, but more importantly, find easily. Thats where the idea for getting a recipe together by the members came from.

If its a bad idea, i appologise, but i have seen some recipes on this forum that in my opinion are as good as any bait going, and just wanted an easy way to find cracking recipe.

I also agree whole heartedly with the people who will say as long as the bait is put in front of a feeding fish, you'll catch it. Yeah fair enough, but lets face it, a good bait can only help out even more.

We have a good cheap bait thread stickied in the bait section. Why not make it easier for those who would like a quality bait recipe thread. IMHO Cheap baits are just that. I have seen the damage a quality bait can do on a water when fished alongside cheaper baits, and still have the bloody nose from the experience. So decided i would do what i could to gain a better knowledge of baits and ingredients that can be used to make that quality bait. This thread is just part of it.
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   Old Thread  #75 1 Nov 2011 at 2.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #71
Fair enough. I like this sort of conversation. A large degree of what i have learnt about bait making has come from here so i am always intrigued by others thoughts.
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   Old Thread  #74 1 Nov 2011 at 1.12pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #73
Thanks for the considered response

I had not considered the fat content of the baby milk, will have a look tonight.

Mind you I imagine vitamealo is high fat too which most include in a birdy/milk pro bait. I think the fat content (added to baby milk) is vegetable rather than milk fat as skim milk powder is one of the main constituents so it might at least not solidify completely.
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   Old Thread  #73 1 Nov 2011 at 11.50am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #68
So basically you are saying get your protein/nutrition requirements from a quality fishmeal source with a degree of solubility and bulk it out with other functional ingredients to get it to roll?

Yes basically, but also keep an eye on things like hardness of finished baits, fat content, density, attraction and price. For instance, baby powders are very high in fat, which can be both good and bad. For instance, if you rate the attraction powers of fish oils above those of cow fat you should keep baby powders low or out completely. If you plan on using it in winter time, they'll solidify and you should consider skipping them as well.

Btw. it makes little sense comparing blood powder and robin red imo. They are two totally different meals with completely different purposes. Robin red wont harden nor bind a bait, it's main purpose is to attract. Blood powder is usually added to harden a bait, and how attractive it is questionable depending on who you ask. I personally think it's nice in quantities <5%, but don't like it at higher levels.

What's important is that there are many ways to achieve the same things, and one approach can be as good as another. However, the cheaper you can achieve the same quality the more free you are to use the amounts needed at any given time, and that will catch you more fish in the long run.
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   Old Thread  #72 1 Nov 2011 at 8.27am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #69
Sorry Rob, didn't intend to de-rail the thread.

This topic has been done to death though. In my opinion the definitive recipe was put up by Smurf ages ago so don't see why we need another one?
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   Old Thread  #71 1 Nov 2011 at 6.55am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #70
IMO rr is more attractive, but blood is slightly attractive and has other quailties to it
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   Old Thread  #70 1 Nov 2011 at 0.58am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #61
Garlic hemp almost sounds good enough to eat. Good luck with your trip. Ps don't forget the chilli!!!

The Tesco i work at doesn't sell the Natco garlic powder, i had a look tonight.

I am getting the impression we need a bait buff to help us decide on the binder(s)/hardener(s) to use. Prices from CC Moore for 1kg. Blood plasma 7.99. WPC 12.99. Blood 3.49.
Personally in my bait i want my 'goodies' to make the bait attractive. The pre-dig, Robin Red, garlic etc. So blood plasma is in my mix solely to bind/harden and with a quite low recommended inclusion level i can use less allowing room for more 'goodies.'

Blood powder has better benefits than rr. Do you mean robin red?
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   Old Thread  #69 31 Oct 2011 at 9.15pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #68
Could we get back to the recipe please

I think the blood and WPC should be included, due to both being good ingredients for BOTH different reasons,

The blood imo should be in there just for the fish attractiveness of it and it has better benefits that RR
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   Old Thread  #68 31 Oct 2011 at 9.05pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #66
So basically you are saying get your protein/nutrition requirements from a quality fishmeal source with a degree of solubility and bulk it out with other functional ingredients to get it to roll?

What is your view on baby milk powders, being both soluble in the extreme and providing good nutrition and a boosted vit/min content? I don't use refined milks in my fishmeal either but have been up to now in my winter bait but am considering using the above instead.
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   Old Thread  #67 31 Oct 2011 at 8.18pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #63
Sure its as much a matter of function, but whats the function?

Semi soluable gelling agent with a nutritional value or a largely soluable attractor that aids in hardening the bait?

I agree with Ulrik If the mix is being pared down on costs, WPC or plasma gel can be substituted with cheaper products that will do the job just as well.



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   Old Thread  #66 31 Oct 2011 at 6.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #65
Yeah, I meant that I would totally skip concentrated milk proteins like whey, casein etc. in a bait that already have such a high protein content and also up the predigested and lower the Vitamealo.

All of the functional milk proteins can be easily substituted using much cheaper and equally function ingredients (for the that function). For instance, whey gel binds and hardens, but so does gluten and blood powder together. 30 mesh hardens a bait, but no more than polenta or coarse rice or semo flour, costing a fraction... some people believe that carp love the taste of milk proteins, if you're one of those go for it. I don't put particular high faith in the attraction properties of most milks - maybe with the exception of calcium caseinate, and that's only because Hutchie have praised it no end. Even Rod attributed the effectiveness of CaCas to it being soluble, not necessarily because of it's inherent taste/smell.

Vitamealo is most often used to increase the solubility of a bait, i.e. increasing the leakage of food signals.
I haven't been able to do a fair comparison between milk powders like Vitamealo and predigested fish meal, as the lakes I fish these days are extremely low stocked with few takes per season. But my intuition and general experience with bait making tells me that a soluble predigested would beat Vitamealo easily. I plan to try using 20% predigested. Can't see why it should only be used at such low levels - unless of course you need a hard insoluble (less attractive) bait for some specific purpose.
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