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In reply to Post #55
Its dead mans shoes and there is a waiting list as long as youd care to imagine which tells you all you need to know - most excl syndicates are exactly the same
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In reply to Post #54
That cost comparison is a good point, 20 nights a year isn't loads and I'd agree per night reasonable value for that type of venue. I'd certainly pay it.
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had my ticket for near on 10 years now (Non publicity water) it was circa £400 when I joined now over £1000 but I still think its worth every penny, security in that its fully gated and otter fenced, I can leave my car open or go to shops and nothing gets touched, like minded anglers, not over crowded and I can get a swim at a weekend if theres 7 anglers on its busy, 20 minutes from home, good head of 40s
I doubt I would get any of the boxes ticked that I need for my fishing if I looked elsewhere - I cringe going to day ticket waters nowdays as there always rammed and your on top of each other in the main also if I do 20 nights a year its £50 a session which I think is fair for what I get
Ultimately like anything in life - value is defined as a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged - If there wasnt demand syndicates wouldnt sell so its pretty obvious to me why they are so popular esp the good ones
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In reply to Post #49
Didn't it Just... 
I think these Gravel company's had a remit probably as far up as government level to return these great scars on the land back into a usable state. And turning them into fisheries and watersport centres was one of them. As you mentioned these were done not for profit. Probably as a way of encouraging the working masses out of the big smoke into the countryside for a few hours for a bit of fresh air.
This all changed when having an Angling arm in your company. As well as trying to streamline Didn't quite fit in with your green agender you were trying to promote.
Sold on for maximum profit. Which got passed onto the end user us Anglers.
Some would say we had it to good for to long. But what was wrong in that.. 
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In reply to Post #48
I have also always thought the same about this type of ticket back in the day. Most gravel extraction companies usually had to re-constitute the land after extraction had closed and are then responsible for the upkeep. Hence someone thought that creating a fisheries or water sports venues would offset the cost. Once they hit the required amount of year they are required to do the up keep, it becomes a asset with not much value in comparison to the core business so they just sell up
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In reply to Post #48
Amey Roadstone Company had an immense ticket, Great Linford was fantastic, Dorchester lakes etc. That was about £45 when I joined. Glory days indeed.
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In reply to Post #48
The CEMEX Silver ticket which I had for a few seasons had various lakes at Yateley, Wraysbury, Sutton, some in Essex too - all over the place really - that are all sewn up and costing a fortune now.
That ticket cost peanuts, most definitely less than any of the syndicate/club takeovers charge for any individual lake or venue now.
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In reply to Post #47
I think the new stocking policy caused the most uproar to be fair...
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In reply to Post #47
That is actually a very good point.
The existence of RMC and the other gravel company fishing arms effectively depressed the whole "market" with their (it has to be said) incredibly cheap tickets, even for the time.
Same for cheap clubs with "general" waters with a few carp (and crucially only a few carp anglers - not filling all the swims so low-paying pleasure anglers were still happy),
RMC/Boyers etc. were not actually in it for profit as such, as any profit they could have made from the angling branches would have been peanuts compared to their core business. I dare say as long as they more or less broke even their gravel extractor bosses stayed fairly happy.
I'm not sure if this is the case but I dare say their very existence was due to some kind of socio-environmental compensation deal for having extracted the gravel : certain % of usage as nature reserves, fishing and watersports.
Once those deals ran out and/or the companies were bought out by multinationals (legitimately I guess) only interested in the core business, the fishing arms were sold off and the market became competitive, hence the price rises.
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Remember the uproar when Leisure sports sold the Darenth complex in the mid 90s. It went from £90 to £250 a season. 
It was the beginning of the end for that historic complex of lakes. And the beginning of when greed started to creep into carp fishing. Sad really...
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In reply to Post #45
Anyone leasing a water then has to make the same decisions as someone leasing a shop, warehouse, factory unit etc.
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Landowners/farmers putting the lease prices up..who should pay ?
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In reply to Post #38
They’d probably charge more for the “old skool” experience…..
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In reply to Post #42
I can guess where that is. (Redmire Commons?)
Classic case of a long established club losing out when the landowner was approached by someone else offering more $$$. Long term club members got kicked off half way through the spring & left with nowhere to fish. I vowed to never fish one of his waters ever again.
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In reply to Post #41
My £450 "syndicate" in 2024 was a £60 club ticket in 2004, and included three other lakes.
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In reply to Post #38
I'm thinking back to my club lake 30 years ago. Annual fee was cheap. it had very few facilities but it was very popular even back then.
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In reply to Post #39
As you know, I like Canadian carp fishing as it is! Hoping to make it over again this summer 
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In reply to Post #38
if the sense of adventure is the same as it was 30 years ago then I think you'd be surprised at how many people would go for something like that.
we have had people suggesting that the Canadian carp society take control of a private lake & develop it as a European style fishery with ready made swims, a stocking program, facilities etc - a couple of them have said that they like the idea of paying to fish lakes too.
when I mentioned UK fishing prices they were astonished & soon agreed that they are happy fishing for wild ones, anywhere in the province, wherever they want, whenever they want for the grand sum of $48 for 3 years... we are very lucky indeed.
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Some of the cost is because of demand being so much higher these days than before.
But, I wonder what the prices would be if we were prepared to fish the way we did 30 years ago? No built swims (or very few), no space for giant bivvies, swims that were under water for 3 months in winter, no road around the lake or barrow friendly paths. No aerators, otter fences (maybe not realistic today), loos, and no stockings or regular nettings.
My suspicion is that it would be a lot cheaper but not popular …
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In reply to Post #35
I think what you are saying is purely business. Like most things in the pastime, once somebody realises they can make some money out of it everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
It’s simple, be prepared to pay if you want to fish these places, they ain’t in it for the love of fishing or to help you out they are in it to take your money otherwise they would be deflated costs or ultimately they would be doing it for virtually free if it was for their love of angling.
If you want the opposite it’s angling clubs, with committees who spend where the member's want it, or don’t at times. There are still some brilliant clubs about but carp just lived in some of their waters. Clubs traditionally are matched focused but a few are changing 
Long live angling clubs, value for money and people with a real passion running them 
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In reply to Post #35
Fortunately I'm in on SYNDICATE level, I thank the Lord in my prayers every week 🙏
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SYNDICATE, everyone's equal, not for profit, quality fish, work parties required.
VERY DIFFICULT TO GET IN
PRIVATE MEMBERS CLUB, owned by individual or Individuals, run as break even or profit. Work parties shouldn't be entertained as this is a business, why should you supply free labour to subsidise someone's business/lifestyle (if u do ur a mug) high quality fish at the right money.
ONLY GET IN IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE
DAY TICKET, scrapes filled with mud pigs to rip the ass out of the newcomers and those that can't afford or their suspect social media posts rules them out of both the above.
Breakfast and dinner available at a price and you can have that ****ty van or 10 year old BMW parked behind your Coking Farm YouTube bull**** Parker Baits ***** 👍
HAVE ANY OLD **** MONEY MONEY MONEY
Little Chef Fisheries
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In reply to Post #27
A true syndicate is where each member buys a share in the lake, and owns that share until they decide to sell it.
I know of only one true syndicate lake, and you need to be working for His Majesty to join it.
The dictionary definition states "a group of individuals or organizations combined to promote a common interest"
Well, to me thats a club lake. "Syndicates" to me are only syndicates by name. You still have zero input unless you join a club committee. Syndicates are just names to give somewhere a bit of aura about it. Anyone who opens a "syndicate" lake with fish under 25lb would be laughed at, unless every single carp came directly from Heather the Leathers fanny, and every single one was a linear, and the ****ter was at least 5 metres square with a hot tap in situ.
I joined a "syndi" last year. Saw one bailiff in all that time, and the fella didn't even fish there himself. Had zero soul compared to some of the public park lakes i've fished over the years.
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Just seems like the uk is in a race to the bottom where everything is price led
And then people moan about how crap something is when it breaks..
No one is allowed to make a living to pay taxes or employ people.
Without profit there is no jobs and then where we all be..
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In reply to Post #23
With regards to prices going up as the fish get bigger; I can to a point understand this. If you start out with relatively small fish you basically have to run a loss each year, because most people wouldn't pay much to fish for the small fish, no matter how nice the surroundings are. As the fish grow prices can rise, hopefully to the point where you're not making a loss and maybe even start to cover all the previous losses.
What I've done is keep the price lower for those who have been members through the years when the stock was slowing growing and put the price up for new members. This year there will be members paying three different amounts for the same ticket. Just showing a bit of appreciation for those who have continued to join and watch the Pool develop with me.
One other thing to think of.
I'm lucky that I bought my place outright, but most people who run waters are paying a lease, and trust me, farmers and landowners in general aren't slow to see an opportunity to put the lease up.
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In reply to Post #30
Could you smell fish too 
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In reply to Post #29
Been to a few too, saw fish nets but no fish.
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In reply to Post #28
I’ve been to a private members club one and there was absolutely no fishing going on 😂
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In reply to Post #27
They're Private Members Club's.
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A true syndicate is not run for profit. Which brings into question just how many of these venues can even claim to offer such angling. Limited members pay lake seems far more accurate.
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In reply to Post #25
On one of the lakes I fish we had a disease which wiped out nearly 400 carp in the lake. Luckily they had a stock pond with fish already. So they restocked the lake then put prices up by 30% due to restocking the lake when it was pointed out they had already brought the fish prior to wipe out they claimed it was for something else. Like quite a few people have said people are in fishery management different things
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In reply to Post #23
In 2021 I joined a lake that I had been waiting for years to join (10+) it was very expensive (with the joining fee for the first year) - The stock was fantastic.
All the fish died before I could wet a line, complete oxygen crash, nothing survived.
Gutting for me, but more gutting for the people who ran it. I could see how gut wrenching it was for them. So nobody asked for their money back and we all helped with work parties etc and they spent a lot of money doing a lot of work to the lake (drained etc) and I think it was just over a year before they opened the lake again. They didn't put the price up by much at all, I guess as a bit of thank you to the members and likewise I think only 2 or 3 members dropped off. Decent people
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In reply to Post #21
They haven't stocked the lake since 2017 so what you are saying doesn't quite add up in this example but I get what you are saying.
Yes, the stock have gained weight, but no new stockings have been made.
It is the same with a lot things these days, some firms jumped on the bandwagon and have increased prices of raw materials when in fact the cost to them has not increased by nearly that much. Some syndicates are run very well and some are investing a lot of money each year but others aren't (Can't/Won't) yet they still increase their prices each year.
I just think no I'm not paying that... I can't justify it. It's not like it has hardly any members and it offers the tranquillity I'm after.
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In reply to Post #14
Brilliant post and so much (regards member number) I had never considered.
I am lucky to have both options, a brilliant but now hard to get into club, that is diligently run by committee and has enough waters for a decades fishing - I really enjoy it but it does bring out the snob in me. Cheaper waters IMO mean more litter, more anti social behaviour and the like - I get it, everyone needs these type of clubs to keep the sport going.
My syndicates (!) I love because the anglers are better, more respectful and generally quieter with better surroundings / security. My only comment, is the rise of the ‘pay for fish weights’ that seems to be very common now. Years ago if the fee was £500 and there was a good stock then membership was consistent and few dropped out, as soon as these places now get a bigger fish (existing stock) there is a temptation to double the fee as there is now x and y in there - this grates me. A stable low churn syndicate creates a loyal and respectful environment- you double the fees you get the sponsored bounty hunters that want to empty it in a month and move on - it may work short term, but what if you have a kill, there is no loyal base left to stand by you and help work through the devastating impact.
Sensible fees that provide a return I love, ones where only a few members drop out per year and not because Gutsy was the only fifty and that’s now dead .
Euroaqua, RH and the like obviously have a place and are far smarter than me, but it’s my worst nightmare, paying inflated prices for the chance of a bloated pig to get a bait deal.
All I will say is if you want good loyal members that aren’t going to tear the arse out of you piece of heaven, vet well and price long term stability rather than short term greed.
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In reply to Post #13
The lake I was referring to has no facilities at all.
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If you are on a Syndicate prices change with up keep and Stockings!! Guess you question in your own mind is it worth it?
Unfortunately for those that moan and say they won't pay it...theres a list of guys on the waiting list to take your place so weigh it up 
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I guess it all comes down to how deeps your pocket and what you want from your fishing.
Changes in times, at one point most of the waters around me were clubs and a book could be picked up for sub £50 that had a lot of waters for the money!
Enter businesses and people cashing in on the popularity, whole different game now, be prepared to pay for it.
When you look at other pastimes angling has just gone stupid, 3 or 5k of gear and a grand for a ticket, not to mention fuel and bait it has become a very expensive pastime, again due to people cashing in on it and the popularity of the pastime now.
Look at golf, 1k willl probably get you a decent set of gear, and another 1k and you will probably get a decent ticket for the year, who said golf was a rich man’s sport, it’s carp fishing now 
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Running a fishery is a lot more than it used to be, maintaining, trees, tracks, lease costs, the water and various other insurances including the cost of stock - I can’t think of one item that has not gone up significantly.
I guess supply and demand also the further north you go typically the cheaper the venue but then you have your own fuel costs and time.
When you think some manufacturers charge a £1000 for a tent , ticket prices I’d say are still pretty reasonable.
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It can be expensive but you just have to work out yourself if it's worth it. I like to flit around between venues and types of angling (carp, coarse, sea and fly). Currently pay £1000 a year for my fishing but tend to go every weekend and longer during school holidays but my grand gets me the following:
Two carp syndicates (25 acre gravel pit and one with 2 small waters - both have fish that would break my PB)
Two clubs (one with 1 dedicated carp lake and 4 match ponds and I with small carp water- both within 15min drive from home)
One 60 acre fly fishery (March to November)
Access to a private pier on NE coast for sea fishing.
Plenty of variety, fish all at different points each year and allows we to target certain types of fishing when I fancy it. 20 quid a week is a bargain in my opinion.
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In reply to Post #16
How else should you see it though ? I appreciate people expect renumeration for their labour but if prices are sky high, take your hard earned elsewhere or pay the toll. Most of these costs are based on convenience, it's convenient to have nice scenery, it's convenient to have relative solitude, pretty fish, large fish, easy access, privacy and security. That comes at a cost.
The wild waters are increasingly more attractive, less about the exclusivity and material 'gains' and more about the reward.
Rivers are the key.
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I do think its daylight robbery at times but i guess as an angler and not a lake owner i only see it from my own selfish veiw.
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In reply to Post #14
It's good to hear the flip side as most "normal" anglers never consider what it takes to develop and maintain a fishery that's worth visiting
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Can I give a bit of balance to the conversation?
Almost ten years ago I had the otter fence put up around an area of five acres, cost £10000
The wire will hopefully last for another ten years before needing replacing, I'm already replacing some of the posts.
What will it all cost to replace in ten years time? I dread to think.
Last year I spent over £800 on type 1mot for paths and the parking area.
Late last autumn, like many water we suffered an oxygen crash, with low d.o. levels for three weeks. This was costing £102 every thirty-six hours to run the aerators. I also bought an additional aerator costing £1000.
Thankfully I think we only lost two carp, both around 23lbs. If I wanted to buy two direct replacements I'd be looking at around £800. If I buy a couple of C4's at around 10lbs they'll cost £14.50+vat per lb.
Any fishery expert will tell you to expect to lose some of your stock each year, 5% is considered the lower end of the scale. Looking at the above costs you can soon see plenty of money going out.
General running costs such as insurance, fuel for tools, materials to maintain the swims etc all add up as well.
So on your typical limited membership water, that usually run at between three and five members per swim, you don't have to be Einstein to see why ticket prices are what they are and why they are going up in general.
And trust me, most people that run waters are putting in so much time and effort that they're not even close to making minimum wage from them and most, like myself do it as a lifestyle choice.
There are obviously exceptions to that and some run as profitable businesses, but most don't.
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In reply to Post #1
Guess it depends on what you see as what value is in it for the £900 a year, I always look at it or convert it into what £900 notes would get you in the world of day ticket fishing, I would say 30/35 x 24 hour sessions on most day ticket circus lake these days at £25-30 notes x 24 hour tickets?.
For me I know what I'd rather pay my money into so long as the lake has a few targets to go at is secure and I dont have to **** in a bucket for my £900.00 that'll do for me these days, I'd also say the defining factor for anyone is time over cost? I basically fish all year round and probably fish circa 30 weekends a year Friday to Sundays and then the odd night here and there and a few day only ventures in the very depths of winter, all in probably around 80 x 24 hr periods so that £900 quid would be around 11/12 quid for 24 hours to someone like me or at that many 24 hour sessions on a decent day ticket at £25/30 that's around circa 2 to 2.5K a year on decent day tickets which thankfully I haven't had to do in a very long time, or the other-side of the coin a Welly/Grenville ticket which is not my cup of tea.
I do sympathize it's an expensive game these days especially for a young married person or single one at that add rent/mortgage, bills, food possibly kids just general living on an average yearly income with not much time at their disposal a ticket price of £900 with all the other costs of carp fishing Tackle/bait/travel is a big stretch on the available finances.
Edit: I currently pay around a £1000 a year for 6 lakes that's one club lake which the ticket for days only to the general public is £40 a year and the rest are annual membership syndicates and one of those is £660 a year.
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In reply to Post #11
The majority of syndicates listed on the website are split, I only know of 4 that are full 7 day tickets.
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In reply to Post #8
Not all of Embryo's waters are structured like that.
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It's not just fishing. Airfare has more than doubled in past few years. Everything has doubled pretty much. My food shopping and virtually everything else I purchase has doubled or more in past couple of years.
The start of paying a fortune for fishing tickets happened a long time ago, not recently. Recent inflation is compounding that in all walks of life, all around the world. Syndicate prices are no different.
Plenty of places are free, or very little money. You just have to get up and go find them.
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In reply to Post #8
Great point I thought there was a cost of living crisis at the moment....
Most Embryo waters are around the £500 mark but that's surely only going to rise.
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In reply to Post #6
Embryo do that. Week and weekend tickets. Monday to Friday and Friday to Monday I believe. Not sure how they price it? Still to expensive what ever it is... Maybe I'm to old and out of touch. But people are being priced out. Or maybe not.. Try getting a ticket on some of these clubs or Syndicates.. No ones got any disposable income. But they seem to find it for these over priced venues... I'm confused 
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In reply to Post #1
Last paragraph sums it up for me,
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In reply to Post #5
£1K seems the going rate at the moment.
However loads of waters are now being sneaky and doing a weekend and mid week ticket for the same cost which i think it taking the pi$$ a bit. I try and avoid these but they are becoming more common nowadays.
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I feel very lucky after reading this!! My club membership is £140 per year,with over 200 waters to go at,including all kinds of waters, rivers,ponds,lakes,the lot.
I tried a couple of syndicates, but just wasn't value for money, even back then about 10 years ago.
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In reply to Post #1
It's as far from being a working man's sport as its ever been.. Even some of the local club and day ticket prices are getting silly aswell.
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In reply to Post #1
Supply and demand.
All the time fish are getting bigger, people will pay.
Rapidly pricing itself out of the average working mans pocket for time put in over a season.  Shame.
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Greed...nothing more ,nothing less ..
The bubble is going to burst ,...wait n see..
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Another year on and I still can't believe some of the price increases on these syndicates. I've been on a list for one since about 2020 which was £400 back then, now I'm nearly at the top it's £900 (Not even a full year as there are times you cant fish it)
Honestly tell me how their costs have more than doubled in 5 years.
These aren't even syndicates, just clubs really, then they also expect you come and do a few work parties on set dates and if you don't attend you get hit with another £50 per work party you miss. I'm all for helping out and have done more work parties in last 4 or 5 years than nights on the bank I'm sure but I feel this is a p*ss take.
I'm getting to that point now where I just can't be bothered with carp fishing anymore! I just feel like it's become a rich man's sport these days.
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General Carp Discussion