|
|
Don't know if Pete still comes on here. If he does I hope he does not mind me posting this for the previous poster:
OK after so many requests here are a couple of simple base mixes to base your own baits around. There is nothing clever here just simple balanced nutrition and if you take any of these as a base and then add your chosen attractors you won’t be going far wrong.
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite
Depending on the exact brand of milk powder and bird food you use this will give you a bait with over 50% crude protein and about 10% oil content. Although they sound a little high it will come down if you add a few attractors to it yourself. If you really want to know the FLAA is Phenylaline, the 2nd is Methionine and the 3rd is Threonine……but all are plenty high enough to allow the carp maximum utilisation of the protein in the bait.
I have deliberately left the solubles a little on the low side so that you can add your own soluble attractors such as Betaine, MSG, liver powder etc without the bait falling to pieces in the water after 10 minutes!
Now another mix I have played with and had some promising result on before I stopped bait development was slightly different. Lower fish meal due to increased costs and slightly higher energy was the initial goal.
BM2
22% Poultry protein meal
20% LT94
10% Maize Protien Meal 60% (supergold 60)
10% pre-digested fishmeal
10% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
7% Micronized Soya meal
6% Semolina
2.5% Micronised crushed hemp
2.5% Equivite
Again the crude protein level is above 50% but the lipids levels are higher. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd LAA are the same as the above mix although the balance is not quite as good. As with BM1 you can add your attractors to this. If you find it too soft (I like it that way and the attractors can just pour out) then try adding 2 or 3% egg albumin.
For a simple bait take any of these and add 20ml per Kg of good quality oil such as Cod liver or Salmon, a few ml of flavour if you want some and 8-10 eggs per Kg of base mix.
Two of the best recipes you will ever encounter...Nothing more needs saying
|
|
|
In reply to Post #597 Thanks 👍
Just found the Selenavite E at the local equine shop in 500g tubs so will stick with that 👍
|
|
|
In reply to Post #596 You could try the kelp meal instead of the Selenavite but they are not quite the same. I do like kelp meal and find it draws in the naturals....if it was me I would use both and 3-4% kelp with 1% selenavite
Maybe start off with just the kelp meal and see how you get on.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #595 Amazing, thank you very much!
I'll make those adjustments now 👍
Would Crunchy Kelp Meal make a suitable alternative to the Selenavite E to help reduce the overall cost?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #594 Looks about right apart from I would drop the Selenavite E to 10g/kg of dry mix...this will save a little and has very similar content as 5% of the old Equivite. One 500g tub will make 50kg of dry base mix
Just up the others a little to make up the reduced amount of vitamin powder to give you 100% total still
Edit to add remember that 1kg of basemix plus the eggs will make about 1.4kg of finished bait so divide your cost per kg at the end by 1.4 to get you the price per rolled kg.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #592 I've put the below together based on buying everything (apart from Selenavite E) from AA Baits in both 1kg amounts or 5kg amounts.
With Selenavite E being the most expensive, if anyone knows a better place to get this cheaper?
If I've done my calculations correctly, then this is what I came out with:
1KG ingredients:
 image uploader
5KG ingredients:
 image uploader
Let me know your thoughts or if I've made any mistakes 👍👍
|
|
|
In reply to Post #592 Ah yes, well reminded 👍 thank you
|
|
|
In reply to Post #591 Remember that 1kg of base mix makes about 1.4kg of finished bait when working out cost per kg
|
|
|
In reply to Post #590 Thought so 👍
Got myself mixed up with Megablend and Megagold but got it now 👍
Putting together a cost spreadsheet for the BM1 mix to see the cost of buying the ingredients in 1kg bulk and then 5kg bulk to see what it brings the final cost per kilo fully mixed down to.
Appreciate the help, will post my findings soon and get your thoughts on it 😁
|
|
|
In reply to Post #589 Yes it's megagold 60.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #588 Thanks again.
What about "Maize Protein Meal" as I thought that was Megagold 60?
Or would plain Maize Meal be the same?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #587 For the birdfood I would use megablend
|
|
|
In reply to Post #586 Hey Peter,
Thank you for the alternative, I have done a more in depth search and you are correct, found the rest on AA Baits.
It was "Egg based bird food like CeDe" I couldn't find easily, unless I am being stupid but do AA baits sell the equivalent?
Thank again!! 😁👍
|
|
|
In reply to Post #585 Other than Equivite I would have thought it is all available from AA Baits. What can't you find?
I would change the Equivite for Selenavite E at 10g/kg of base mix. You can buy it online or from some local horse/animal feed type suppliers.
|
|
|
Hey all
Looking to roll my first ever boilies using the BM1 mix and wondered if anyone has a list of where to get each ingredient from?
I found some on AA Baits but struggling with some and wasn't sure if they are they cheapest or not?
Thanks in advance 👍
|
|
|
In reply to Post #583 Honestly I think it is a mixture of things. It smells good, even after many hours in the water. It breaks down well over time, probably a little too soft for some but I like it soft. It tastes good. No one part adds to this but the sum of all the parts add up to a good bait.
8 years after I posted that I am sure that is still a really good mix. My bait making since then has gone down different routes just to exercise my brain more than catch carp but seeing that old mix again has made be feel nostalgic and I am so tempted to make a few kilos
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458 Dear Peter,
what do you think makes this mix superior to others? Most ingredients are widely used in standard mixes. Is it the spirulina, kelp or really the vanilla flavour?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
Joe
|
|
|
Absolute bait making novice here. To be honest, I have no clue what I've got and what I need to make a good boilie. some bait making ingredients came up on the bay and for 99p, I thought what's the worst that can happen!
my question is do I need any other ingredients to make my own boilies. what I've bought is
Spirulina 4x1kg unopened
Blood powder 1kg unopened
Egg albumen 1kg unopened
Whole egg powder 5kg unopened
Hearing meal 5lg approx opened
Fine oyster shell 2kg approx opened
Clo 10kg approx opened
Tiger nut meal and flour 15kg.
I'd like to give it a try and if it all goes terribly wrong, I'm not losing anything really. just need a little push in the right direction. thanks
|
|
|
In reply to Post #578 Beetroot powder for redness. Pretty darn powerful and natural
|
|
|
In reply to Post #579 Should be okay especially if you add 20ml of oil.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #578 thanks, do you think that the mix will roll ok ?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #577 That mix will catch fish, so I think my advice would be to go for it. However if iy was me I think you are wasting money on Robin Red, it's not the ingredient it used to be and is an expensive red colouring. I would replace it with 50g of paprika and up the Clo tp 150g.
Clo and supergold have very different properties, supergold will add protein to your mix but not a lot else, Clo provides some binding properties, carbohydrates and oil but it is easily digestible, it's an ingredient I use a lot.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #576 Hi all,
Prior to buying ingredients for a test mix I would appreciate any feedback on this mix.
Semolina 100g
Soya 100g
CLO 100g
Supergold 60 100g
LT-94 250g
CPSP-90 100g
WPC-80 100g
Robin Red 100g
GLM 20g
Beef Liver Powder 20g
Garlic Powder 10g
Not sure if I have the soubles and binders at the correct ratio.
Do CLO and Supergold offer the same properties ?
Thanks
|
|
|
In reply to Post #574 How do you mean hold the boilie together like lt94 ? In terms of binder or its qualities ? If you mean as a binder then it won’t make a difference as neither will help bind.
Also not sure how buoyant insect meal is. Never used it but if it’s anything like krill or shrimp meal you won’t get near 30% without the bait being great pop ups.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 I'm toying with the idea of a making the BM1 recipe, I'm just trying to think outside the box like we all do... is it possible to exchange the 30% LT94 fishmeal for Insect meal, or even swap out say 15% and add 15% insect meal?
I'm just not sure if the fishmeal is something that holds the boilie together better than the insect meal? I'm thinking along the lines of 'The Bug'
I just nee to bite the bullet and start experimenting I guess but it would be interesting to hear you thoughts.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #570 I wouldn't bother with krill essence (not needed) or robin red (very overrated)
|
|
|
In reply to Post #571 Only 1 egg
|
|
|
In reply to Post #570 That's a lot of liquids, are you not using eggs?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #569 Hello guys thats is my mix but i think need more proteins what i need change or add
Standar fish meal 300gr
Clo 100gr
Fish Pelets milled 300 gr
Blood plasma 50 gr
Chill powder 40gr
Cornmeal 100gr
Soya 100gr
Black pepper 10 gr
Liquids
CSL 230ml
Krill liquid 80 ml
Robin red liquid 40ml
Belechan liquid 50ml
Krill essence 0.4ml
What i need to add or change ?
Thanks
|
|
|
In reply to Post #568 It is mate, thank you for your input and a base to work with. I feel I'm getting a lot better understanding now as the topic has me researching this that and anything related to better get a feel for the science of it. Not been able to put my mixing bowl down for the last few months. I've got carp in a very large tank, it's fascinating watching them feed on different recipes. Sometimes they hang above it as if taking in the taste, then another few tweaks and they're right down on it
|
|
|
In reply to Post #567 Its a great feeling when your own bait works well. Sorry I didn't reply you your other message, I seemed to miss it.
|
|
|
I've successfully incorporated blue cheese powder into this bm1 mix with a few other bits, swapped over and had 2 x 30's this weekend out of a tricky 64 acre pit forst time ising it .
|
|
|
In reply to Post #563 Could you tell me mate please, I've brought the ingredients to make this BM1 mix for this forthcoming season, how would you go about adding blue cheese powder into this mix, id like to put it in at a reasonable amount, would you just add it into the completed basemix at say 100g onto of your completed bm1 mix making the overall basemix 1100g? I've got some yeasts to chuck in on top and a spice powder, would they be o.k to chuck in in small amounts on top of the 1100g aswell?
Thanks in advance?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #564 A combination strawberry flavour with cinnamon EO works ? Need for my winter mix. Ty.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #563 Thank you !
|
|
|
In reply to Post #562 Candy sweet is a thaumatin based sweetner. Red Karpi was a flavour originally sold by Duncan Kay.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458 Hi Smurf, what are candy sweet and karpi ? Thank you !
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 I bought some Lamlac instead of Vitamelo. Would this be any good or would I have been better off with Vitamelo ?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #559 Brilliant cheees bud have ordered the ingredients only one I struggled to find in small quantities was the equivite
|
|
|
In reply to Post #558 Do the same pal do a 1 egg mix. Get that right and move up. 8-9egg for a kg of powder roughly then you get an idea of how much basemix will be needed to make 3kg and so on.
One mix I make takes 1100ml of eggs and liquids per 2kg of basemix , makes 3.2kg of bait every time.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #557 Trial and error then ok mate thanks for the advice have only really done hookbait sized mixes for pop ups etc so rolling larger quantities is still new to me
|
|
|
In reply to Post #556 All eggs sizes are different pal. Easier to make a 25egg mix for example with the liaisons and oils and add the powders to it.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #554 And has anyone worked out how many eggs for 3kg of that base mix??
|
|
|
In reply to Post #554 Ok sweet thanks guys
|
|
|
In reply to Post #553 Yep - all depends on the amount of liquid (egg size, hydros etc) that you use.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #551 So 1kg of base mix would give 1.4-1.6kg of finished bait??
|
|
|
In reply to Post #551 Forgive my appalling maths what does that work out to for say 10kg lol assuming I’m using min recommended levels
|
|
|
In reply to Post #550 You will get 1.4 to 1.5 times the basemix
|
|
|
I hope someone can help me going to use the bm1 mix from post 77 and I wondered if anyone could tell me a rough estimation of how many kg of finished boilies say 10,20,30,40kg of dry mix will make obv I know there are variables such as liquids and eggs but just a rough estimation would be great
|
|
|
In reply to Post #548 Smurf,
Thanks so much, new to it and just didn’t want to try and go at it, as I would not know if done rightly or wrongly.
Really appreciate your help.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #546 I thought it was clear '...you can add your own soluble attractors such as Betaine, MSG, liver powder etc' but to clarify
these sort of things are normally added at a few % so that's what I meant, just a few % They are normally listed by suppliers as Bait Additives.
Honestly you can use almost any flavour you like but go for quality not quantity! Lots of really good flavours available that attract/trigger carp to investigate and/or feed. What they smell like to you is almost irrelevant unless you intend to live on them whilst fishing
At the moment I am playing around with a couple of flavours from BAF baits. My pond fish really home in on them. BAF don't have a huge range so I suspect that what they do sell are the 'better' ones that they have.
The bait will work without a flavour, many have gone this route.
I would change the Equivite for 1% Selenavite these days and add a good amount of a hydro liquid
|
|
|
In reply to Post #546 Interested in the answer to this aswell
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Guys and girls.
I’m like so many new to this world of bait making.
This recipe sounds perfect for what I’m looking for, seems to have every base covered.
I would like a few questions answered if could ask the following :
When the author mentions soluables to be added at what quantity’s?
Flavours is there a really good match that people have used, and what amount to a kilo .
Thanks guys appreciate any help on above.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #544 Long story! I sold it before I got to use it.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #539 Hi Sam, how did you get on with electric sausage gun? Thanks.
|
|
|
Shout out to SMURF for being a legend 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
|
|
|
In reply to Post #541 If I had the cash handy I would, sooner use 50 quid of the money for the electric gun on bulk base mix ingredients.
saving 5quid a kilo of bait I'm happy to gun it out by hand.
thanks for the link, will get one ordered.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #540 If you’re going to get an electric anyway I would just go ahead and get one! Perfect for small to mid sized mixes.
Manual guns truly are a pain in the backside.
If you’re adamant you want a manual, this 600ml one looks ok-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114094074471
|
|
|
In reply to Post #539 thanks sam, will pick up a manual from screw fix.
ill get all the mixes down and tested before going all out with an electric gun.
running before walking comes to mind!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #538 There’s a cheapish electric caulk gun on eBay that a few people are raving about. Costs Ł90 which is far cheaper than similar styled guns by the big brands.
I’ve just ordered one, will let you know what it’s like if you’re interested.
If you go pneumatic then 5mix have always been great.
If you decide on a manual gun just get a heavy duty caulk/sealant gun from Screwfix/eBay or similar for around Ł15.
You’ll find one that’s pretty much identical the the Gardner Delux model (which they charge Ł50 for).
|
|
|
In reply to Post #537 First time poster resurrecting an old thread.
dabbled in bait making a few years back and had great success but a busy job make it hard to roll enough to sustain my needs.
I have time to get back on the rolling tables and I'm looking for a recommendation for a boilie sausage gun?
I own a gardner boilie gun but I tried to get a very stiff mix through it and stripped the threads on one of the bolts.
do the screwfix foil sealant guns to the same job? obviously have to cut the nozzle down to the required size.
thanks all
|
|
|
In reply to Post #536 My advise would be to stick to a proven recipe as in post 1 until you know what you're doing. Good luck.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 hi
i am new in boilies and i need your help !
i have a recipe and i need to know if are ok or must add more or...must modify:
Mix:
Squid Meal: 200g
Prosecto: 100g
Pre-digested fsh meal 100g
semolina 100g
clo 150g
Robinred 80g
WPC80 50g
Purifyed blood powder 50g
soya flour 100g
salt 20g
chili powder 10g
GLM 20g
Betain 20g
Liquid:
Black pepper oil: 1,5ml
Squid extract 30ml
Fruit flawor: 5ml
thanks
Sweetcorn sirup ?
CSL ?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #533 About 7.5-8kg finished bait! As for number of individual baits, that depends on what size you roll! You will get more 10mm baits than you will 15mm & less 18mm baits than 16mm.
|
|
|
What is the flavoured essence to betaline ratio ?
Rule of thumb. 👍
|
|
|
In reply to Post #532 How many boilies will i get from 6kg of BM1 basemix?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 May be giving BM1 a go later this year! only making small batches though due to money.
|
|
|
Hi all going to be rolling the bm1 this year could any body advise on a liquid attractor pack was thinking bafs bechalin hydro thanks
|
|
|
In reply to Post #529 You don’t have to have it.
But if you wanted to have a vitamin/mineral in its place that is cheaper.
You could substitute Equivite for Crunchy Kelp meal
( Ł3.00 for 1 kilo ) from CCMoore
|
|
|
In reply to Post #528 So i am looking at making BM1, ive never made baits beofre and wondered whether this would be alright. do i need equivite as im on a budget?
30 lt94
15 maize protien
13 megablend
10 semolina
10 soya flour
8.5 PDFM
8.5 Vitamelo
( all from ccmoore)
Is there anything else i need to add to the mix? i am unsure on what else to add.
cheers,
Hunter
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 So is the pinned post the final recipe for BM1?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Hi. Im making that mix a few time now and i saw it many times to become pop up... What is wrong??? I do something wrong or is any flour off??? Help me plz
|
|
|
In reply to Post #524 Hardly simple and 60% binders. The Pete B mix is far more simple and better balanced and cheaper. Now, which one should I pick?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #515 25% semolina
25% maiz meal
10% lt fismeal
10% soy meal full fat and toasted
8% egg powder
5% yeast
5% kelp
2% chili powder
5% milk powder
5% pre-digested fishmeal
30ml hydrolyzed fish liquid (krill, tuna, salmon, what you can find)
No eggs are needed due to the egg powder => use water to moisturize the mix
This mix is way below 4GBP/kg and catches every where
|
|
|
In reply to Post #520 ive had a good bit of success using their HNV Spicy Red Fish & Bird, rolls very nice too
|
|
|
In reply to Post #521 yes, that's their tried and trusted recipe. Squid and orange I think it is.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #520 Yes i will be trying patshull park. They recomended it too. With a squid flavouring!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #517 No. Go for the HNV mixes. They're only a bit more money and much better quality. Try the one I suggested, patsull Park. A good mix with a proven pedigree.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #518 Right so spend a little more and get the fishmeal base. I shall certainly go with that next
|
|
|
In reply to Post #517 Errr... yes, that right. I’m sure it’s a very good 50/50 mix, but I’d expect MUCH better results with a cheap/simple fishmeal mix than a cheap/simple carbohydrate mix.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #516 Brilliant thanks.
Also in reply to the above post about quality baits. That stuffs relatively cheap right?? So say a kilo of the 50/50 plus eggs , oil and a flavour then im in business right???
|
|
|
In reply to Post #515 50% fishmeal
40% nectablend/red factor/megablend ...or even even semolina
10% calf milk replacer or dried milk powder
Oil/flavour optional
Put it in the right place at the right time and a carp will happily eat this. If you want to play, you can add seaweed meal, yeast, shrimp paste, etc, etc...
|
|
|
In reply to Post #514 Ive got ccmoore live system base mix and ive been rolling that myself. But want to start with something simple from scratch.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #512 If you don't know what some of the ingredients are then I suggest you buy a ready made base mix then roll it yourself. Something like Patsull Park base mix by Quality baits would be a good start point. It's also got krill in it.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #352 I like this a lot. Much more simple to follow. But say i want a krill boilie how much would i need instead of plum flavour??
|
|
|
Hey guys. New here and this is my first post. Me and a friend want to bring our bait costs down as much as possible. So i made the first move by using the ccmoore bait packs. Which has got me down to around 5.40 a kilo.
So my question is. As a newbie to bait rolling whats simple and cost effective for me to start on?
Ive read 90% of the posts and theres ingredients ive never heard of!
I thought it was simple like 2 or 3 dry ingredients plus flavour plus eggs and oil job done!
Look forward to your replies..
Keep rolling and tight lines!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #509 If you want to get the price down more then you need to factor in postage. BAF's CLO for example is a bit more expensive than the Ccmoore one (it's far superior too in my opinion) but buying it from BAF along with the other bits would bring the cost down as there's not a second lot of postage. Ccmoore would charge you Ł9.50 for the postage on your vanilla meal and clo.
Unless you're collecting of course in which case I'd still get the BAF clo as it's much better.
The BAF csl is very active, you'll be absolutely fine with that.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Hi guys,
Has anyone found a good rolling company that will roll BM1? I know it sounds lazy but with other commitments my fishing time is too short to spend it rolling bait. I’m just a little nervous that some bait rollers might substitute cheaper materials for those in BM1. Any recommendations much appreciated.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #508
 molecular weight of aluminium hydroxide
well i've done another table with your suggestions smurf
the final price per kg looks very appealing no factoring the eggs in which i can imagine will drop the price per kg abit also?
The corn steep liquor is a few pounds cheaper from BAF than CC Moore, they both say there active is there any difference between them or im i fine going with BAF?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #506 Not sure that level of GLM is worth the effort (some use up to 10%) and I never tried with a level lower than 2.5% and at that level it was really tailing off in any noticeable affect.
Personally I still quite like this mix but swap half the Maize Protein meal for Vanilla Extract meal (which some hate but the carp love it) and then add 2% Spirulina and 1% Betaine and a little (10-20ml per kg of dry mix) CSL liquid when mixing
|
|
|
In reply to Post #506 Just try making it as it is without adding anything apart from maybe some oil, you'll be pleasantly surprised
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77

Hello i've put together BM1 into a chart to see how much it would cost my additives are Betaine HCL at 1% and Green Lipped Mussel at 1% is this adequate or should i change the percentages of both?
any advice would be helpful
gaz.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Hi I can see loads of good recipes ..
But does anyone have an idea on pellet recipes ???
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Trying to put together a recipe for next year, any advice?
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
8% Robin Red
5% Meggablend
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite? Is there anything similar on ccmoore I can use instead of this?
Thanks
|
|
|
In reply to Post #501 However, for those who can afford to create the ultimate bait, how would we change it?
Simple.
Just take any time proven bait recipe and just apply it better, more often & to more areas in your venue, give the fish more free food without hooks, to get them really wanting it.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #501 The mix has all you need, why change for the sake of it? They are only fish, not gourmets in some high class restaurant. The only thing I would add to this mix is a good dollop of hydrolyzed fish liquid in with the eggs. Anything else is superfluous. In fact, I would take some things out rather than add them.
|
|
|
Hi all,
First post. Please be gentle...
Fascinating thread. Thanks to all who have contributed.
How would we change this mix if money was no issue? I know there is already a cheap bait thread and this appears to be a very good value HNV mix (and I note that smurf already clarified that it was a good value HNV, not a cheap HNV mix).
With limitless money, what would we change? Would we up the GLME/ RR/ Pre- dig?
I appreciate that not everyone can afford such changes and some would regard them as "buying your fish". However, for those who can afford to create the ultimate bait, how would we change it? Also, I know that the ultimate bait can be out fished off the next swim by a pack of shelf life tuttis....
|
|
|
Hello,
I need some help about these boilie mix.
100g megablend
100g soya
100g protein concentrate
100g tiger nut flour
100g cornflour
100g hemp/millet seeds
150g wheat biting
150g rye flour
50g lamlac
30g birdfood (minced)
20g peanut flour
Is this a good balance of foods?
Thanks a lot!
Regards,
Mario
|
|
|
In reply to Post #498 That is what the search option is for mate.
Type into KEYWORDS, dip glug and tick the FORUM topic, bait, search.
plenty of posts on your subject of interest.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Changing the subject slightly, but does anyone know how I could make my own dip/glug for home-made boilies?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #496 Would that be a yes ??? Or what about a low oil peanut meal ??? It's only 40g that needs replacing in the mix
|
|
|
In reply to Post #495
|
|
|
In reply to Post #493 Post 458 mate was what I was referring to .
|
|
|
In reply to Post #493 I was referring to the mix that smurf has tweaked the hydrolyzed poultry meal is no longer available was wondering if you could use either of the to instead
|
|
|
In reply to Post #492 BM1 - Why change it ? it works, and you know it works
Personally I think Pea protein is the latest bait fad, snapping at the heels of the other carp Tax buzzwords containing ...Krill, Tuna, and anything that is Nut based
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458 Hi all new to the forum . I have been using the original bm1 for a couple of years now very good bait put fishes all the bait my mates use . I've been looking at the below recipe and would it be possible to use hydrolyzed feather meal or yellow pea isolate powder as both have a good amino acid profile and protein content just a thought
|
|
|
In reply to Post #490 See post #488 & reply at #499 (directly below your post) for your first answer
|
|
|
Hey.
I joined up just for this thread.
I'm going to be making baits for the first time and have some questions of you don't mind answering them for me please fella's ?
I can't find anywhere that sells hydrolysed poultry meal in the uk. Would it be ok just to use a a fish mean in its place like salmon or krill for example or can someone point me in its direction.
And when it's says the liquid element 10 eggs use 50ml of CSL and 5ml of your chosen attractors
Is that ten eggs per Kg ? Then 55ml per kg of base mix of liquids ??
Cheers
Callam
|
|
|
In reply to Post #488 more fish meal maybe?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458 Could the Hydrolysied Poultry Protein be replaced with anything else!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77
Hi Guys I am from Slovakia
I would like to test the recipe and I would like to know whether Only HNV spring can I use coco milk as a sweetener,
or no. My question is It wil mustiness ??
200 g soya meal ,200 g maize meal, 200 g kasein , 100 g lactalbumin, 100 g fishmeal LT94, 200 g dry cocomilk, 15 ml cocooil, 15 ml Allamino nutric, 10 ml Bacterie septic, 5 ml coco flour 15 ml cocomilk
|
|
|
In reply to Post #485 Yeah I used it at 10% consistency of the mix the same as normal eggs but when I did a tank test they went really soft after 15 hours. That is fine for me as I made my hookbaits up with normal eggs plus I glug them in glycerine and the shellfish liquid which hardens them right up.
Also I boil them so they still have a soft centre to keep as much nutrition and pulling power as possible
|
|
|
In reply to Post #484 They look good, ive never used the megablend red and have usually used the megablend sweet.
Did you use egg powder or eggs? and how did you find it?
I have found when using it at 10% in a similar but more soluble mix that it doesnt quite bind as well and the baits breakdown a little quicker than using eggs which is fine for most of my fishing, but if i up the level to nearer 15% it gives a bait with very similar breakdown to the one made with eggs
|
|
|
Made 110kgs of this over the last week. Looking awesome, can't wait to get out in France and haul on them.
Check out the speckles from the megabled red. (Photos a bit cack)
|
|
|
Hi from Italy guys! Rolled a small batch yesterday,they are ready to be frozen and used through the weekend! I have already tested this bait with good results,but the one I made before were without equivite!
This one has 2,5% selenavite and 2,5% GLM.
As liquid part I used NHDC,Peach and OE black pepper.
16 mm baits steamed 5.45 minutes.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #481 No they don't but click the link on the post bud
|
|
|
In reply to Post #480 I saw that but CC Moore don't sell that either? I'm new to all this but fancy having a crack at it.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #479 If you look at post 465 there is a link to selenavite E, which can be used instead of. I've just got home from fishing after trying my own mix.....lost 3 fish in the weed, but they do work great
|
|
|
Guys how important is the Equivite in the BM1? I'm putting an order together on the CC Moore website but can't find it. I want to try and buy all ingredients from the same place for now .
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458 Could you swap poultry protein for hydrolyzed feather meal pete? Is candy sweet a strong powdered sweetener in that recepie?
|
|
|
Made my first batch of BM1 this morning..they came out great! I cant wait to get home from work to see how they have dried out !!
Thanks for the recipe and thanks for all the advice, looking forward to getting back to the rolling table...wife permitting!
Just another quick question I cant seem to find the Poultry protein meal for the BM2 anywhere on the CC Moore website, is this called something else? I apologise if it mentions this elsewhere in the thread but i havent seen it asked anywhere else
|
|
|
In reply to Post #475 Cheers guys
|
|
|
In reply to Post #469 I dont use the bm1 mix but a similar mix along the same lines and i use the ratio you mention of one kilo of whole egg powder per 10kilo of base.
For roughly one 1.1 kilo of mix i use 100mil of my liquid additives to 1/2 pint of water, it may not be exactly the same for your mix but will give you a starting point to work from
|
|
|
In reply to Post #469 Not used it with this mix but as a starting point I use 250g of egg powder to a litre of water. This works out at (very) roughly 3kg of base mix. Liquids then added to that.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #472 yeah will take a drive as I live in the villages so lots of farms.....
|
|
|
In reply to Post #471 Find your local farm shop and they will normally do a deal
|
|
|
In reply to Post #470 LoL, my little 3 year old has just walked in and said WOW That is a lot of bait! LOL
I don't think Tescos would sell me the amount of eggs I need
|
|
|
In reply to Post #469 Sorry no I have not used it, I always used fresh eggs from local farms. They used to love seeing me walking up the drive with my wheel barrow to take home 200-300 eggs at a time
|
|
|
In reply to Post #466 One question mate. I have always used real eggs in my mix, but going to be using Whole Egg Powder instead this time.
I have been reading on here to start at 1kg per 10kg base mix, so that is what I was going to start with but wondered if you or anyone else has used Whole Egg Powder in the BM1 before and if so what quantities did you use it in, per KG base mix & also how much water added?
Much appreciated, saves wasting bait in a trial and error....
|
|
|
In reply to Post #460 Just put an order in with CCMoores for a French trip that came today. First time I have bought in higher quantities, works out much cheaper :
This is what I ordered (in kgs)
lt94 25
maize protein 25
megablend 12.5
semolina 12.5
soya flour 12.5
pre digested fishmeal 12.5
vitamealo 10
betaine 1
liquid shellfish Concentrate 2 litres
salmon oil 5 litres
Whole Egg Powder 10
Total 371.4
With 7% discount 345.402
Delivery charge 41
Total Delivered 386.66
I already have the Selenavite and 7 of the items will make much more than the 80kgs dry mix the LT94 & Shellfish will make
Top Bait - TOP TOP Prize - and a big for a 1 stop shop in the name of CCMoores.
Just got to roll this lot now!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #465 Thanks
All ordered up hopefully everything will be here by Friday
Just another question, I have some whey powder in my cupboard that won't get used, what could I substitute in the BM1 mix for this? Or is it even possible?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #465
|
|
|
In reply to Post #464 Here you go Selenevite E, use at 2.5% and add something else you fancy to make up the other 2.5%. I used GLM powder on my latest batch.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #460 yeah i suppose it would save on postage too!
Im sure it has been said on this thread but im unable to find it now....could something else be used as a substitute for Equivite? as its very expensive and CC Moore dont have it.
Cheers!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #462 I just put an offer in on a new home so not very rich at all at the moment.
Ill have a play with spirulina through the summer, as its an ingredient I've never used before and keep wanting to try it.
Thanks
|
|
|
In reply to Post #461 I have used it in this bait at 2% and it made a difference (not as good if I left it out) BUT that's all I tried as I had little time to test like I used too. No idea as to a maximum, how rich are you feeling
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458 What is a good inclusion level in any bait for Spirulina in your opinion? Also what would you suggest is a maximum level for its inclusion?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #459 I tend to only use CC Moore these days. Used to shop around and get bits and bobs from all over the place but time is short these days so stick with one supplier
|
|
|
In reply to Post #458
Any recommendations of where I should order the ingredients.....CC Moore looks as good as any
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 To answer a couple of questions this mix can be used all year without any worries, many have done and still do and it has stood the test of time
I have used it as a basis for many baits including sweet, savory, meaty and fishy 'flavours'.....but not all at once
I only fish a few hours a year now, work, family and other hobbies get in the way. Last year I managed about 3 or 4 nights and that was twice as many as the year before! However every now and then I get the bait books out, scratch my head and come up with a new mix (I say new but they are always a tweak of an existing mix). If you take BM1 and tweak it then you may end up with this.
20% LT94
20% Vanilla Extract Meal
17.8% Megablend
8% Crunchy Kelp Meal
8% Pre-digested fishmeal
10% Semolina
4% Supergold 60
4% Blood plasma
4% Hydrolysied Poultry Protein
2% Spirulina
1% Selenavite E
1% Betaine
0.3% (yes 0.3%!) Candy Sweet
per 10 eggs, 50ml CSL and 5ml Karpi
This mix has out-fished any other bait I have tried it against on various waters from club to day ticket to private lakes. Unfortunately the Poultry protein is no longer available and I have run out of Karpi and I am not about to order another production batch at crica Ł100 a go....so that's the end of that mix
Later this year I might see what i can do to the above mix and take it to the next level, but it was so good I am not sure it will be easy to tweak it again
|
|
|
In reply to Post #454 Yeah, it smells quite fishy even with no flavour in it. 1ml per kilo of John Bakers crab flavour can really help improve this naturally built in smell if you wanted a fishy bait.
JB crab is expensive to buy, but at 1ml/kg it goes a long way, making up to 100kg for the price.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #455 Great thanks you! I'm going to give these a go as my first attempt, now I'm going to order all the ingredients
|
|
|
In reply to Post #454 I've used it with nothing but salmon oil and L030 and it's worked a treat, also used Squid and Octopus/Esterblend 12, also worked a treat. Basically just add any flavour you feel confident with. The basemix is quite distinct without adding anything and you have to add quite a bit of flavour to notice it really. I tend to add a small amount to the mixes then make some special hookbaits with more flavour and then put them in pots with a bit of glug.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #453 Thanks for the info bud. Does the BM1 Mix smell of anything if no flavouring is added? I'm assuming it's going to smell fishy because of the fish meal base?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #452 Its an all year round mix IMO, and yes you can add any flavour you like to it if you wanted to put one in. I liked it when i used it on a lake with strawberry flavour believe it or not. I used other flavours in it depending on which lake i rolled it for, but it seemed to take fruit or savory flavours really well.
|
|
|
I'm thinking of trying the BM1 mix. I've never done it before and never even heard of half the ingredients. Are we able to use this mix in winter time? Also do we just add our own flavourings to the mix?
|
|
|
Well I've just made a batch of BM1 and this time used CLO instead of Meggablend and all the stickiness problems I had last time had gone. In fact it rolled like a dream once I'd sorted out my liquid to basemix ratio. Whether it was just the change to CLO that made the difference I'm not sure as i got all my ingredients from a different source this time.
Just thought I'd mention it though as a few people were saying how sticky the mix was.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #449 If it ain't broke then why fix it ;-)
|
|
|
In reply to Post #448 Ha ha, I had a feeling you might still be using it Pete
|
|
|
In reply to Post #447 I still use a version of it, had some great sessions using it last year and will be using it again this year
|
|
|
In reply to Post #446 I'm hopefully going to have a bit more time this year for bait making, so am going to give the BM1 a go again as I had good results when I last used it. Is anyone else still using it?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 excellent thread! Looking forward to having a play with this.
Thanks to everyone contributing!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #444 Yes it is cheaper, however the vitamealo/milk replacer offers binding and skinning properties, a creamy taste, some fats and a good oil content with some vitamins and minerals.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #443 Excellent thanks. I'm assuming Vitamelo is used to keep the cost down but WPC would be the preference if cost was not an issue?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #442 nope.
WPC is a higher quality binding ( but still soluble ) milk powder with a lot less oil content than the vitamealo.
|
|
|
Any harm in swapping out the Vitamealo in BM1 for WPC?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #440 I'm just wondering is any one using this mix still . Looking at using it , I usaly use a pre made Base mix but want a change.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #439 its slightly higher than 20 % . the main solubles are the vitamilo and predigested but the casien is semi soluble ( cannt remember wether its 2 % or 20 % )
|
|
|
In reply to Post #438 Thanks for putting that up, is that one 20% soluble
atb Paul
|
|
|
In reply to Post #437 33% LT94 Fishmeal
18% Pre digested fishmeal
18% Sluis CLO
12% vitamelo
10% Acid casein
3% kelp
3% robin red
1.5% feedstim xp
1.5% Liver powder
10ml salmon oil
10ml shellfish & plumb
my take on your recipe is you have 30 % solubkes within the mix in my summer baits i aim for about 20 % but winter i up this to 25 ish %
33% LT94 Fishmeal
10% Pre digested fishmeal
18% haiths CLO
10% vitamelo
10% Acid casein
5% kelp
10% robin red
2% GLM
2% Liver powder
10ml cod liver oil (per 5 eggs )
3ml shellfish & plumb (again per 5 eggs. ive never used this flavour so im just guessing at the level)
|
|
|
In reply to Post #436 How does this sound, it's quite close Nutrabaits big fish mix, it works out about Ł4.50 kilo of boilie plus eggs
33% LT94 Fishmeal
18% Pre digested fishmeal
18% Sluis CLO
12% vitamelo
10% Acid casein
3% kelp
3% robin red
1.5% feedstim xp
1.5% Liver powder
10ml salmon oil
10ml shellfish & plumb
many thanks Paul
|
|
|
In reply to Post #435 CLO would be fine as would any of the Megablends
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Thanks for a speedy reply
Do you know if the egg based bird food is the same as cc moores CLO
http://www.ccmoore.com/moores-clo-sluis-equivalent-p-557.html
or is that something different?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #433 Full fat but make sure it is heat treated (I think most is but worth checking)
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 should the soya flour be defatted or full fat?
Thanks
|
|
|
In reply to Post #431 With the remaining 25g you could add kelp powder/seaweed meal or a little liver powder ( or both) to add more B vitamins and keep more built in attraction in the bait.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #429 Or find a source of Selenevite E and use at 25g per kilo leaving you 25g/kg to play around with
|
|
|
In reply to Post #419 Try AA Baits in Warrington Daniel
|
|
|
In reply to Post #428 what they sell that is equivalent to Equivate
Nothing really. Just add the attractor of your choice. Concentrated yeast or CSL powder would be good choices if your after something to replace Equivite.
Or find a source of Selenevite E and use at 25g per kilo leaving you 25g/kg to play around with. Betaine and Garlic powder?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 I'm gonna knock this mix up and source the ingredients from CC Moore, but can anyone tell me what they sell that is equivalent to Equivate
cheers Paul
|
|
|
In reply to Post #426 Feedstim.com would be worth a look.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #423 were would i get dmpt from
|
|
|
In reply to Post #424 Like this! Try pressing "reply"!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #142 How do I post on here
|
|
|
In reply to Post #422
Thank you for your answer.
Dmpt is:
considered as the best feed lure, for both fresh water and sea water aquatic animals. In several lab- and field tests DMPT comes out as the best feed inducing stimulant ever tested. DMPT not only improves feed intake, but also acts as a water soluble hormone-like substance. DMPT is the most effective methyl donor available, it enhances the ability to cope with stress associated with catch / transportation of fish and other aquatic animals.
It is revert to as the fourth generation attractant for aquatic animals. In several studies it is showed that the attractant effect of DMPT is around 1.25 times better than choline chloride, 2.56 times betaine, 1.42 times methyl-methionine and 1.56 times better than glutamine.
Feed palatability is an important factor for fish growth rate, feed conversion, health status and water quality. Feed with good flavor will enhance feed intake, shorten eating time, reduce loss of nutrients and water pollution, and eventually improve efficiency of feed utilization.
High stability supports high temperatures during pellet feed processing. The melting point is about 121ËšC, therefore it can decrease the losses of nutrients in feeds during high temperature pellet, cooking or steaming processing. It is very hygroscopic, do not leave in open air.
This substance is silently being used by many bait companies.
Take a look at the reviews on the next tab.
Dosage direction, per kg dry mix:
Especially for use with aquatic animals including fish like common carp, koi carp, catfish, gold fish, shrimp, crab, terrapin etc.
In fish bait as an instant attractor, use up to a maximum of about 3 gr, in a long term bait use around 0.7 - 1.5 gr per kg dry mix.
With groundbait, stickmixes, particles, etc use up to around 1 - 3 gr per kg ready bait for creating a massive bait response.
Very good results can also be obtained adding this to your soak. In a soak use 0,3 -Â 1gr dmpt per kg bait.
DMPT can be used as an extra attractor alongside other additives. This is a very concentrated ingredient, using less is often better. If used too much the bait will not be eaten!
Because this powder has the tendency to clot it is best applied mixing it direct with your liquids in which it will dissolve completely to get an even spread, or smash it first with a spoon.
It costs about 3 ÂŁ for 25 gr
|
|
|
In reply to Post #421 No idea what dpmt is but I would just stick to the Activator if I were you. 1 additive is enough.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Can anyone tell me if it makes sense to use all of the following additives in 1 mix?
Butyric acid (5 gr / 1000gr)
Dmpt (2 gr / 1000gr)
Mainline activator (15ml / 1000gr)
They seem to be great additives in any mix, but i was wondering if the activator doesnt cover the other 2 ?
since they are very strong, i dont want to over-do it...
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 just been to kingsley mill in cheshire they didnt have any of the ingredients for bm1 any ideas were i can get them from in cheshire
|
|
|
In reply to Post #418 were do people get there flavours and additives from after a quick look they seem to make your homemade boilies quite a bit more expensive
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 What powdered additives have people used in this mix
|
|
|
In reply to Post #415
|
|
|
In reply to Post #409 did you "oil the table"ie put a little hemp oil or such like on a rag and wipe the the grooves with it?something I read in I think mark mckennas article
|
|
|
In reply to Post #413 Get a kilo of semolina and mix it with a kilo of Nectarblend, Red factor or EMP, and roll that with eggs. 2 ingredients. Hows that?
And you'll catch loads with it too.
If you wanted really simple, leave out the semo, and roll the other half on its own. Don't get much simpler than that.
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #412 Has anyone got any uncomplicated boilie recipies using ingredients that i can get either from a supermarket or animal feed store ?
I'm going to be looking at making a few of my own this year for the first time and im getting weighed down with complicated recipies.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #411 Yes you could do. Change it for anything you like really. Sardine and Anchovy is my favourite fish meal too.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 On the second mix would it be suitable to change the poultry meal for sardine and anchovy??
|
|
|
|
|
I mixed up this base mix today and found the mix very sticky, sticking to the rolling table a lot
I tried leaving the mix for 10 20 and 30 minutes before rolling it was either to sticky or to dry that the gunned out sausages fell to bits when I tried putting them on the rolling table, any help would be great?
|
|
|
Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #406 Think I see what you mean. The additives all do slightly different things within the bait. To be honest if the base is good like the recipe above then you shouldn't need to add much. I tend to add 1 powder attractor like nash squid extract or robin red, krill etc, a bulk liquid food (molasses and anchovy sauce being two of my favourites) and a flavour/sweetener. The cajousers are good and sweeten/flavour the bait at the same time.
For example: 500g base mix +7.5g of squid powder+25mil of anchovy sauce+2.5mil of sweet cajouser and 12 drops black pepper oil.
No reason why you cant mix fishy with cream or fruit flavours.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #405 Cheers smirker, I'll take a look for that, I guess what I'm looking for are the reasons behind the different additives as there are similar flavours in different styles.
ie. cajousers,elites, oils
Do you need to add the other ingredients like liquid foods or natural attractors and what are there purpose are they required ?
Really just to get a handle on it to give me confidence when I make it.
Like I say I know a lot of its trial and error to which I'm perpared to do.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #404 Jay Riders E-books on his site (books on carp) well worth a look. Cheaper than buying a hard copy. What do you want to know exactly? Inclusion levels of attractors are on the bottles?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Do any of you experienced home made boillie makers know of any decent books on the subject ?
I have used nutrabaits base mixes to some success but now I have more time I would like to start experimenting a bit more, what I find most difficult is knowing what size quantities I need to be using of the various oils, cajousers, and elites, none of this info seems that available other than a few recipes on various portals to which I don't want to do the same as.
I know a lot of this is trial and error which I accept but being in the same ball park would be handy.
cheers for any help
|
|
|
Does anyone know where to get poultry protein meal from? Can't find it on aa baits website.
Could it be replaced with something else?
I've found a meat a bone meal which has 44% protein and 13% oil
|
|
|
In reply to Post #401 Yes. BM1 can be rolled for about Ł4 per including eggs etc if you shop around. Maybe less.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 Have you found that it is overall cheaper to make yourself 10kg of boils rather than buying from a company? Thoughts?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 If you are having trouble with the bm1 being too soft for your particular application, I would recommend swapping the soya flour for rice flour or maize flour. This made the necessary difference in a basemix I have used for quite a few years to good effect. 2-3% blood powder seriously firms up the bait (I would think whey gel or blood plasma is comparable). Another simple trick is to sieve the mix for the hookbaits and boil those 30 secs longer than normal. Usually makes them a bit firmer for bit longer.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #397 300g LT94 fishmeal
150g Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
130g Egg based bird food like CeDe
100g Semolina
100g Soya flour (heat treated)
85g pre-digested fishmeal
85g Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
25g selenavite e
10g GLM powder
CSL 50ml
CLO 25ml
8-9 eggs
does that about right?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #395 like i said this is great help, and thanks for the discount code mate
|
|
|
In reply to Post #396 so do 25g of GLM powder
how much CSL liquid should i put in?
and same with cod liver oil how much should i put in
with glm it depends on the depth of your pocket but i generally use 10 gms per kg
when i have used CSL i use it at 50 ml per kg
CLO i use at between 20 and 30 ml per kg
and.. would you suggest using flavoring or leave it with out?
peach and black pepper is a time honoured flavour combo
cranberry
tutti frutti
salmon
caviar
salmon / caviar
cranberry/ caviar
strawberry
cream
maple
the only flavours i use these days are nutrabaits and when it comes to flavour combos the worlds your oyster what ever flavour you go with stick with it . Its no good making a batch of bait 1 week with say strawberry and then next week make a batch with tutti
|
|
|
In reply to Post #393 so do 25g of GLM powder
how much CSL liquid should i put in?
and same with cod liver oil how much should i put in?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #392 You can get Selenavite E from VetUK and if you use this code ORDER10 you get 10% off your first order.
They are the cheapest I have found.
|
|
|
|
|
In reply to Post #392 Lars28 links to some places to buy selenavite e in post 161. To be honest I've not brought any in a while. You may be able to get it cheaper if you shop around now.
I would use GLM or garlic powder and betaine or csl powder. I would also include CSL liquid, and some cod liver oil.
As for flavours, you could use any you fancy. Even some flavours you may not think about will go in this recipe. Try some of the Elites from Nutrabaits. If you don't fancy experimenting with flavours on this base mix, just choose a good fishy one, or even an essential oil. Orange oil or Clove being two of my favourites.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #391 cheers mate, really appreciate the help.
Just a few more questions and ill be on my way
what bait additive would you suggest??
The water i'm fishing get really weedy in the winter, and they love maize!
Also where can i get selenavite e from??
and.. would you suggest using flavoring or leave it with out?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #390 Use selenavite e at 25g per kilo. this will leave you 25g for an additive of your choice.
300g LT94 fishmeal
150g Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
130g Egg based bird food like CeDe
100g Semolina
100g Soya flour (heat treated)
85g pre-digested fishmeal
85g Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
25g selenavite e
25g additive of your choice.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 hi, what is smurfs mix in grams to make 1kg??
BM1 (basic HNV mix)
30% LT94 fishmeal
15% Maize Protein Meal 60% (supergold 60)
13% Egg based bird food like CeDe
10% Semolina
10% Soya flour (heat treated)
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal
8.5% Calf or lambs milk powder such as Vitamelo
5% Equivite
Also should i use Equivite or Selenavite??
|
|
|
In reply to Post #387 Supergold 60 is maize protein. If you scroll through this thread you will find a mix I have posted. Try that as it rolls a dream and very nutritious etc. It is a fish meal but will blend with a fruit flavour such as Essential baits shellfish plum and fruit factor 6 combo. If you decide to include per digested then whatever weight you include then remove that weight from the lt94.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #386 Hi mate,
Ok + would I have to replace anything to add in Pre-digested?
The lake I'm fishing they love maize!
I'm not too sure what the best base mix would be but they love yellow/white and maize sweet things (pineapple ect.) ! Do you have any suggestions for a good base mix?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #385 No need for maize flour and supergold 60. Just use supergold 60 for the whole weight of the two combined. Not sure about the pepper. Have you thought about Robin Red or combining some soluble pre-digested fishmeal?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 hi people im new to bollie making and want to make my own base mix!
here is what i have come up with-
125grms milk powder
125grms maize flour
125grms soya flour
125grms semolina
200grms mega blend or supergold 60
250grms lt94
80grms seaweed & kelp powder
7 1/2 ml salmon flavour
1/2 tea spoon sea salt
1/2 tea spoon crushed black pepper
8/9 eggs depending on size
Boil for 90 seconds to 2 mins
what do you guys think? any tip??
|
|
|
In reply to Post #383 Fair point mate. Although the level maybe a little on the low side I am trying to make a long term bait for a campaign on a new water that I started in January. I was hoping that even low levels would increase attraction and the 'want it' factor due to the overall effectiveness of the inclusion of GLM. Increased nutrient profile etc.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #382 too little to come to the fore.I'd rather put 2% squid nash.
or I would put 5-10%glm but only in hookbaits.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #381 Thanks for the reply. Why do you think glm for hookbaits only mate? Cost? Rollability?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #380 my opinion
30% LT94
13% Supergold 60
15% Megablend
10% Semolina
10% Soya
6% Vitamelo
5% Krill meal
5% Robin red
6% predigest
put glm at higher doses only in hookbaits,make powdered dip...
|
|
|
In reply to Post #379 I know Ken said that there is no need to tweak but can't help myself lol!!! Opinions please....
30% LT94
13% Supergold 60
15% Megablend
10% Semolina
10% Soya
8.5% Vitamelo
5% Krill meal
5% Robin red
3.5% GLM
Think it will roll ok? Will be making a hard version with albumin etc for hook baits.
|
|
|
hi all new to forum and bait rolling would like to know if this mix will roll any feed back will be well appreciated cheers all
200g megga blend
200g semolina
100g soya flour
100g whey protein concentrate
75g vitamaelo
125g egg albumen
200g tiger nut flour
2ml talin
5ml hazelnut essence
30ml liquid tiger nut
|
|
|
In reply to Post #377 Whey is water soluble, so will soften up.
Depends what quality of Whey you get, some is more soluble than others
|
|
|
In reply to Post #376 Seeing as I am only talking hookbaits maybe that's what I should do also. The albumin/whey seems to make the baits harder yes, but it doesn't seem to stop them going soft once in the water.
I am ashamed to say it but I had to resort to using some readymades on the hair over the weekend so they were still there in the morning!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #375 large volumes of semolina!..
|
|
|
In reply to Post #374 Out of interest, is that what the commercial bait companies use?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #373 I am still having a problem with harder hookbaits
equal amounts of whey gel and egg albumin should firm them up abit more i would start at maybe 5% of each
|
|
|
In reply to Post #368 I am still having a problem with harder hookbaits. I have made some up with 5% and 10% Whey Gel and they are like bullets. The only problem is that once in the water they are still softening up too quickly for my liking and am never confident that the bait is still there in the morning.
Is there anything else I can try as it is only the hookbaits I'm having a problem with?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #371 No not really mate. Just stick to the BM1 or 2 and you'll be onto a winner.
|
|
|
I have seen some recipes about I was wondering if dog kibble and chilli flakes would work as a boilie.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #369 Sorry all my stuff is HNV and to me a birdfood bait will never be HNV so I din't ever make any
|
|
|
In reply to Post #368 cheers smurf will do! its a great mix, easy to roll and when you delve into the FLAA side, its better than 90% than some of the bait being sold out there!! my fishing buddy is using a bait made by one of the most popular who sell for Ł5-6 per kilo, and makes for untold online bait companies, when we compared , his had hardly any birdfood in it, very oily and seemed to be mainly semo, not being a bait buff im not sure 100% but the BM 1 looked so much better!!
As of interest, did you have any birdfoody type recipies to share? would love to tinker about with one of those too!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #367 Try making some harder hookbaits with blood plasma, wpc or whey gel. 5% of any one of these will make them harder :-)
|
|
|
In reply to Post #366 cheers nellie, one thing i have found , i made a batch before which was great , but adding seaweed really brings out a fishy salty taste that is tops! its a very coarse mix which i love and i added only a half a ml of monster crab and half a mil of cranberry per egg, so 6 ml per 6 eggs. no sweetener. could i harden the bait slighlty by reducing the clo and adding semo ?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #365 Could eat the myself mate.
|
|
|
Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #363 I've been reading this thread with interest, and it has got my mind racing with combinations and levels.
Peter(Smurf) deserves a commission from the ingredient suppliers, and from the rest of us for abusing his kind gesture!
I have been battling (albeit on paper), with some of the variations to BM1 listed in this thread. Specifically the inclusion of both GLME and betaine.
Can anyone clarify if additional betaine levels should be lowered/omitted altogether, given the levels that GLME already contains?
Would say 50g GLME provide enough betaine to negate its inclusion separately?
Perhaps adding a half dose of betaine to the hookbaits for added atttraction?
Obviously, I am trying to avoid the repellent effects that too much betaine can cause.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #361 Yes you can take the Poultry protein out and either adjust the other ingredients or like you say a 50/50 mix of fishmeal and bird food could work.
I never carried on with the development of the BM2, it was always an experiment to move away from fishmeal for commercial reasons....but the bait I make now I guess you could call the BM5 (3 and 4 soon got replaced in my bait own recipe book!) but only me and a couple of mates use it and it works very well
Having said that my BM5 is not that different to BM1....just tweaked here and there plus two other key ingredients I wanted to try
|
|
|
In reply to Post #361 i too dont like using the poulty meal, ive used it in the past, but when it comes down to it I just like fishy baits not meaty baits o its a confidence thing with me.
I don't want to turn up on this thread and turn it into a bait company war, however just to add in response to AA baits I may look there but CCMoores have a loyalty scheme too even with the first order over Ł100 it goes to 5% off and goes up the more you spend plus freebies thrown in here and there so I personally may be swayed to look elsewhere but if it aint broke and all that
|
|
|
In reply to Post #360 Ill have a good trawl through that website later. Thanks. With regards BM2 could the poulty protein be swapped for something esle? As to be honest ive used it before and hate the stuff. Maybe split the 220g 50/50 between another fish meal and a birdfood?
Also while your here why do you think everyone is all about the BM1? Also any idea if there will be a trilogy or quadrilogy to the BM saga?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #359 I used to get both from charnwood milling. My local farm feed shop used to order bags from them as it worked out cheaper than buying direct
|
|
|
Has any one got any links to a supply of micronized crushed hemp and soya meal for BM2 or is everyone on BM1?
Or any alternatives to the above?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #352 Also if you bought the products from AA baits you would probably save around a further Ł10-15
|
|
|
In reply to Post #356 nice one cheers Peter.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #355 I used to get 1.3-1.4x the basemix weight of mixes like BM1
|
|
|
In reply to Post #354 i worked it out at 1ml of liquid is 1 gram is that not correct then?
the weight of water is 1ml per gram....
and no i didnt take air drying into consideration suppose to get the exact cost I should weigh 1 mix after they have dried to my liking ....
|
|
|
In reply to Post #353 you will be lucky to get 1.5kg of boilies from 1kg of base mix. The liquid weight in normally approx 0.2kg to 0.35kg depending on liquids used.
Depending on air dry time (shelf life vs freezer) i multi ply by 1.2 or 1.25 this should also cover you for a little wastage and spillage
|
|
|
In reply to Post #352 ive just noticed the copy/paste in my table..... I used Vitamelo
|
|
|
I have put my mix into a table and carried out some basic calculations for anyone that is interested in a rough cost of the BM1 + a basic additives.

Price per kg mix including eggs & liquids = Ł5.51
5.51/ 1.5 (finished bait) Ł3.67
If you replace the ingredients in larger quantities when they run out the cost of the bait will come down, just in case you dont know how to do this, you can use the following equation.
Ingredient cost / ingredient amount(in grams) x amount per kg base mix
As I am just starting to make my own bait again (after relocating all my stuff to the shed after a few years break from stinking out the spare room) I have to get going on a minimum budget, so will be buying the ingredients all from CC Moores in quantities listed with the exception of Selenavite - that will at least get 11kgs of finished bait from the initial outlay, which is Ł118.24.
Each ingredient for me will then be topped up with 1 scale up of the quantity, i.e 5kgs will be 25kgs, 1kg will be 5kgs etc..
This will bring down the cost massively, for example just on LT94 in a 25kg sack will reduce the cost from 95p per kg to 65p , I have not worked it out yet, but no doubt you can bring it down to under Ł2.50 per kg of finished bait
Hope that helps people that have not started to make boilies before on how to calculate the costs
|
|
|
In reply to Post #347 I have used megablend sweet in this mix without flavour but I did use a drop of toasted Sesame oil which worked well
|
|
|
In reply to Post #348 Thanks very much, and for the tip
|
|
|
In reply to Post #347 Yeah the megablends work fine. I use the red, one thing i will say is that because its quite course i would advise grinding it and the super gold down in a blender as it can cause the bait to break up to easily.
|
|
|
Would any of the Meggablends be ok in BM1? CCMoores have the normal, red and sweet. I was thinking of going along the lines of a mild plum & scopex flavour and thought that the sweet Meggablend might compliment it well?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #345 the only downside of the smurf's recipe is that if you don't use any oil, it's very sticky when you roll it, you need to let it dry a little during 15 to 30 min. before rolling it .
You're not wrong
|
|
|
In reply to Post #344 maize gluten meal is a very dense ingrediant and at 15% it make the bait a good way to sink at the bottom
this recipe won't float and will be eaten by fish
also 17% of soluble ingrediant is not high ! i have also used 20% milk replacer with 10% pre-digested fishmeal and if you balance the recipe, it's not too sticky at the rolling stage and stay on hair for long enough .
the only downside of the smurf's recipe is that if you don't use any oil, it's very sticky when you roll it, you need to let it dry a little during 15 to 30 min. before rolling it .
|
|
|
In reply to Post #343 The well respected bait maker I'm referring to make some of the best baits available at the moment and always received rave reviews on this very forum for producing quality baits and providing outstanding service.
I was surprised as you at their comments.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #339 spoke to a very well respected custom bait roller recently about BM 1. They seemed to think that the solubles were too high and that the bait would float. I mentioned my dismay at their findings and also that the recipe was a long standing one from another well respected (no names were mentioned) bait maker. They didn't reply to that bit but did suggest something lower in solubles.
Thoughts?
that well respected bait maker aint got a clue then, cos 8.5% milk and 8.5% pre digested wont float anything
ive used 15% milks and 10% pre dig along with shrimp and krill and it sank ok.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #341 Oh yes, don't get me wrong, I have every faith in this recipe and it's designer. But it's just interesting how opinions differ.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #339 Well, I can tell you it definitely doesn't float but it definitely works, top quality bait
|
|
|
In reply to Post #337 You never give up, do you. Take a rest for a while...
|
|
|
In reply to Post #338 I spoke to a very well respected custom bait roller recently about BM 1. They seemed to think that the solubles were too high and that the bait would float. I mentioned my dismay at their findings and also that the recipe was a long standing one from another well respected (no names were mentioned) bait maker. They didn't reply to that bit but did suggest something lower in solubles.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #337 Give it a go nick, never used the krill but the other bits have worked well in that mix at similar levels :-)
|
|
| bud | Posts: 1022 |  | |
|
Message Suppressed by Forum Moderator.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 I'm looking to kick off my bait making by using the bs1 mix after reading this thread (which has been bloody useful). Just wondering if anyone else has made a batch? If so, what sort of flavours (if any) have you added? Cheers
|
|
|
In reply to Post #334 Taking out your semolina and replacing it with 20% predigested fm I would not recommend. Your taking out your bulk binder and replacing it with a high level soluble ingredient. Even with the other binders in your mix this wont last long in the water.
If you want to make a good fish meal bait I would completely scrap your mix and start off with smurfs recipe!
If you want a fish meal bait but don't want to scrap your other base mix why not fish with bm1 along side your birdynut mix you have?
P.s. STOP SHOUTING!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 HELLO AL THIS IS A BASE MIX I'M USING MY SELF WHAT CAN I TAKE OUT TO MAKE IT A FISH MEAL I WAS THINKIN OF TAKING AL THE SEMOLINA OUT AND PUTIN IN PRE DIGESTED FISH MEAL INSTEAD
THIS IS A 1KG MIX
150G MEGABLEND
100G PEANUT FLOUR
205 MORES CLO
50G VITAMELO MILK POWDER
200G SELMOLINA
100G WHOLEEGG POWDER
100G VINILLA MEAL
100G SUPER GOLD 60
I LOOK FORWORD TO READING YOUR MESSAGES ND MENY THANKS FOR YOUR FEED BACK
|
|
|
In reply to Post #332 Absolutely agree, its how it performs that matters, and that's another reason I am not a fan!
My point is that imo it is pointless balancing your amino level with prairie meal as I believe that a lot of those aminos will not be assimilated by the carp. That's just what I think, you obviously think that most of the aminos are usable and that's fine by me.
We will have to agree to disagree! But thanks for the chat
|
|
|
In reply to Post #330 I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that
i understand really well what you mean Sam. For you, corn gluten meal will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or milk protein etc... and i agree ! when it's used alone ...
in this thread, we talk about it combined with fishmeal and both together give a good AA profile, and give a cheaper finished bait, so why using more expensive stuff ? because they are better ?
technical values on a paper are great, but i'm more convinced by my result on the bank and my own experience have proved me that it is not always the most expensive bait or ingrediant that work better
|
|
|
In reply to Post #330 i dont have a hard time-i looked at the bio value of prarie meal against fishmeal years ago-theyres no contest, but as some have mentioned-added with a few other ingredients-amino acid balance up.
then again so does poultry meal-and thats papp imo also .
|
|
|
In reply to Post #329 I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that
|
|
|
In reply to Post #328 There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
yes and thats essentially as a replacement for the ever increasing cost of fishmeal, prarie meal is a damn sight cheaper !
|
|
|
In reply to Post #327 That is neither here nor there, I am not saying they will not benefit from it, I am saying that in my strong opinion it is not the best product to cover the amino requirements.
The whole point I was trying to make earlier is that I would rather spend extra on the best ingredients. Thats just me, nothing wrong with doing it another way. Smurf put this mix together as a wallet friendly mix I believe, I am sure he will agree that prairie meal is not the best source of protein for carp, having said that maybe he wont agree, Im not sure!
All I know is that it is certainly not for me, not for use of covering aminos anyway. It does have its uses though.
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
|
|
|
In reply to Post #326 Sam, it's not me that i think 90% of it is available, it's a couple of studies i have read that say it is !!!
yes carp don't have stomach, but it as been found that they can digest the same source of protein as pike or salmonids (that have stomach) and benefit from it .
more than one studies have stated that, it's not new ! why soybean meal or corn gluten meal is used in a lot of commercial pellets for Koď ? if they were less digestible, or the koď will not benefit from those protein source like fishmeal, i think most of the producer will let this meal for ruminant or other food sector and will continue with full of fishmeal pellet.
let see this link: corn gluten meal: 96% digeastible nitrogen for salmonids, i think for carp is not far from that !
http://www.feedipedia.org/node/12288
|
|
|
In reply to Post #325 You think 90% of it is biologically available????
Why do you think that? The stated 90% is based on animals with complex acidic stomachs, not a simple alkaline tract that is found in carp!
Carp are not equipped to deal with such a source of protein with any efficiency.
Just because it is used in aqua culture feeds does not mean it has a high BV
|
|
|
In reply to Post #315 OK what I meant was I would rather get my protein content from high BV ingredients apposed to things like soya flour and supergold 60.
Supergold 60/ prairie meal is supposed to have a high bv, and maybe it has for cattle etc, but for carp?
Sam, have you ever search after the nutritionnal data of Maize Gluten meal, i don't think ...
it is not a well balanced protein alone, but if you put it with a bit of fishmeal, you will have a very good AA profile.
the fact are that the AA digestibility of maize gluten in fish is high for all AA: from 90 to 94% digestibility ! not a poor biological value ingrediant in my opignion ...
it's used a lot in aquaculture as part of a fishmeal replacer, aquaculture need to grow fish fast and well, so if maize gluten was so poor, it will not be used, result proved that replacing a part of the fishmeal content with maize gluten ended up with the same result on the grow and health of fish.
it's high in methionine, that is often the limiting amino in many mixes.
maize gluten is also really cheap (here in france) compared to fishmeal, so using it can cut the cost down of our bait
|
|
|
In reply to Post #322 See post #108 onwards, I drove myself (and everyone else) bonkers with the same question
|
|
|
In reply to Post #322 Why not make that decision yourself and that way you would have had atleast some input into the mix
Best of luck either way
|
|
|
In reply to Post #320 cheers for that . but would that leave me minus 2'5 per cent so if that's the case what could I up the missing . 25 per cent on
|
|
|
In reply to Post #320 Would the real Ken Townley please stand up....
|
|
|
In reply to Post #319 I know I am not Ken but 2.5% selenavite e is ideal
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 afternoon ken
i was just wondering on the bm1 can i change the equivite for selenavite e if i can would it still be at 5%
cheers kevin
|
|
|
In reply to Post #317 Out of interest what liquids did you add?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #77 made my first batch of the said recipe today, cost me Ł2.66 kg including eggs and flavours, bought 100kg of dry ingrediants, cheap as chips bring on the spring
|
|
|
In reply to Post #315 Thanks Sam......tells me just what I needed to know
|
|
|
In reply to Post #314 OK what I meant was I would rather get my protein content from high BV ingredients apposed to things like soya flour and supergold 60.
Supergold 60/ prairie meal is supposed to have a high bv, and maybe it has for cattle etc, but for carp? I just don't agree with it.
I would rather balance aa profile with things such as higher levels of cpsp90, krill, wpc80, other refined milks, spirulina, high grade liver powder etc etc. No doubt someone will claim that refined milks are not digestible but it is my opinion that they are.
Just my opinion of coarse
You originally said- .....I'm asking for an example of the type of ingredients
But you then said you weren't asking for the ingredients
You also said- I'm not asking you to post up details of your mixes
I am confused but maybe that's the festive drinks! Hopefully I have told you all you needed to know
|
|
|
In reply to Post #313 Don't be so defensive Sam - Im sure nobody thinks you are knocking Peter's mix. I understand what biological value is thanks so can give google a miss on that.
I'm not asking what ingredients have a high biological value. You said in your earlier post that you would prefer a bait with lower crude protein levels but a higher biological value..... I'm simply asking you for an example of such a bait, as it's your stated preference.....can you give one?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #312 Should have known I was opening up myself for this!
I certainly did not critisise smurf or his mix, think I made that clear and praised him for posting it up.
Are you asking what ingredients have high biological value? Do a search!
|
|
|
To be fair on Sam, it is much easier to criticise others efforts than it is to open yourself up for the same criticism
|
|
|
In reply to Post #310 And if you read my post Sam I'm not asking you to post up details of your mixes.....I'm asking for an example of the type of ingredients/mix you describe.....doesn't have to be one of your secret mixes
|
|
|
In reply to Post #308 If you re read my post, you will see that I am not willing to post any of my mixes up.
Why should I? I have worked hard to get the mixes how I want them, why shouldn't others?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #307 You are not rubbing me up the wrong way at all Just felt your post deserved a response
|
|
|
In reply to Post #307 I would favour a lower protein bait that has high BV where non of the protein is wasted and amply meets the carps aa requirement. Such a mix would obviously cost more money
Give us an example Sam
|
|
|
In reply to Post #306 Hi Smurf
I have a terrible habit of rubbing people up the wrong way, so I shall tread very carefully with this one!
That is what I meant to say, this is a cheapER mix, I should have said (I was basically saying I am sure you can come up with better)
It is high protein and yes not all of it is available- not quite what I would go for in winter.
Imo in winter it is even more important to not drain the carps system and to get it bob on.
I would favour a lower protein bait that has high BV where non of the protein is wasted and amply meets the carps aa requirement. Such a mix would obviously cost more money
It is very good of you to put a mix up, so please don't think I am slating you.
Would I put a lower protein/ high bv mix up? NO! So I guess that is all I have to say!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #305 Not been carping since the summer so I will answer this from my armchair
the protein content as it is very high in this mix, far too high imo especially considering the amino requirements are not quite met.
I don't quite get this statement....are you sure that says what you meant it to say?
As to 50% crude protein being high...If you take into account the limiting amino acids and if we assume that 80% of the crude protein is digestible (a figure I have used as an 'average', not based on hard facts for this mix) then we have a digestible content of circa 30-35% protein Thats a very good basis for an HNV bait to me
The BM1 is a basis for so many other things i.e. add some liver powder, yeast and shell fish extract for a 'natural' flavoured bait or bulk it out with bird food in the late spring for a high energy bait. You can do lots with this as a base....it doesn't cost much to mix up but that makes it good value not budget
sits back in to armchair again
|
|
|
In reply to Post #297 Another point well worth considering is the protein content as it is very high in this mix, far too high imo especially considering the amino requirements are not quite met.
I prefer lower protein in winter.
Just my opinion and I am not knocking smurf or his mix, he suggested it as a budget mix anyway I think?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #303 My thoughts on it would be, if you are winter fishing with say a hook bait and a two or three bait stringer, i.e. fishing for a bite, and if you are lucky catching A fish, it shouldn't be a problem, but if you are hoofing it in and they are hoovering it up, then I would say lower the oil content.
What are the chances of that though??
reverse psychology on that for me as far as im concerned-i do hoof it in during winter-and ive done pretty well as a result over the last few seasons, i just dont hoof it in whilst fishing-prefer to do it to a regime / frequency if you like around my fishing sessions, but equally you have to respect conditions beeing poorer than better -so you must fish when you feel theyres a chance-milder air temps,periods of lower pressure like the last few days for instance, afternoon sunshine, warmer wind direction-that sorta thing....i hoof it in to keep the fish in certain areas, and to keep them feeding-even if its very limited, those lipids get converted to energy-so i wouldnt take them out of the equation.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #302 My thoughts on it would be, if you are winter fishing with say a hook bait and a two or three bait stringer, i.e. fishing for a bite, and if you are lucky catching A fish, it shouldn't be a problem, but if you are hoofing it in and they are hoovering it up, then I would say lower the oil content.
What are the chances of that though??
|
|
|
In reply to Post #301 im going by smurfs recepie listed, but tweaks(if any) would be small-im not sure it would need an emulsifier, but i cannot see how it would hurt either sam, if to just keep the lipids from clotting.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #300 So you would tweek it then.
Also depends what ingredient options people are using.
If people have chosen sluis clo equivilant and lamlac the oil content would be much higher than other options
|
|
|
In reply to Post #299 i think thats an acceptable level-though i,d deffo use a thinner oil and at about 10-12ml per kg, simply as the mix has -heat treated soya within which retains 20% oil in its treatment.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #297 Fairly high oil in that mix, I wouldn't use it but if I had to I would at least tweak it and pop an emulsifier in there.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #297 I asked peter this and he said that hes used it through the winter months an caught more than his fair share of fish so the answerr is yes its ok.
If thats what Peter told you, That'd be good enough for me.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #296 ive been using bm1 with a couple of small tweeks,ive had conflicting advice and im not doubting anyone who has been good enough to help me out with advice,but some are saying bm1 isnt suitable for winter,others are saying its fine...is there a definitive answer???
|
|
|
Going to make this one a sticky, as post #77 gives probably the best bait advise anyone could wish for, Thanks, Peter
|
|
|
In reply to Post #293 cheers for that mate yes i think there's so many different factors involved who knows
pm sent
|
|
|
In reply to Post #292 wont be taking it out guy, just didnt really know what it was
|
|
|
In reply to Post #292 That will be for half a kg then I am guessing? still an issue, especially as alot of it will be denatured by boiling
Lots of reasons why it could have caught more, and lots of other ingredients that could be the reason for it catching well
But well done all the same
|
|
|
In reply to Post #280 gentleman please do not drop selenavite for anything else risk at ya peril you can buy it at the following ''vetuk .com Ł6.42+Ł1.99 p+p i sent off for mine on the wednesday and got it friday
|
|
|
In reply to Post #282 gents please please do not take out the selenavite out i made up just a one egg mix and went down the lake for just a 24 hour session i was fishing a bm1 on one rod and a certain coconut bait on the other rod guy's it's bm1 3 coconut bait 0 i couldn't belive it chance or something else i don't know only the future can tell i'd just like to thank overbody who has pointed me in the right way and a certain gentleman called smurf
|
|
|
In reply to Post #289 Definitely mate, can't wait to give it a try and roll my own baits.
I'll probably have a little play around with attractors etc in small batches.
It looks like a good basemix to get started with there is always scope for the odd tweak with the more I learn I suppose.
Cheers for your help
|
|
|
@SamBarley, Yes mate, you are quite right to point that out. I Should have seen that myself. I agree if you take out the Selenavite E, there is not really anything you can replace that whole Vit/Min content with.
@gav1986, I messed around with BM1 and BM2 at the end of last year/beginning of this year, and settled on using the base mix as it is, but with CSL and Molasses as attractor liquids. I did start to add things like Betaine and Robin Red, but in the end i stopped playing around with them, so i could concentrate on the mixes i was putting together for myself.
I'd have to check but i think i settled on BM1 base mix, With CLO instead of Nectarblend, CSL, Molasses MSG and a few drops of Butyric acid. Don't discount BM2 though. I found it to be a cheaper alternative to BM1, and quite liked it once i sorted out a hardness problem.
Both are very good base mixes. Alot of peope owe Smurf a big
|
|
|
In reply to Post #287 I won't be taking it out now I've realised what it does.
Nellieman - what attractors have you used with the basemix.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #286 Obvious stuff for me and you nellieman but the poor guy might get the wrong end of the stick
|
|
|
In reply to Post #284 Yes i understand that. But if he is swapping it out, why not use something else that may replace some of the vits and mins hes using.
Yes, to take the Selenavite out leaves a big hole in the vit min content, but he asked what he could swap it for.
I wasn't comparing anything.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #283 I understand now, to remove it would remove a high amount of vitamin and minerals. So it's probably better to keep in.
What attractor pack have you added to bm1?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #283 All do completely different things.
Selenavite is used solely for vits and mins, the other ingredients can not come close to the vit/min content that selenavite contains
The other ingredients have other reasons for use, pointless comparing them, its like comparing sprouts to beef
|
|
|
In reply to Post #282 If i was to swap the Selenavite E out, i would probably swap it for another additive that is also high in vitamins and minerals, such as a seaweed product or brewers yeast or something similar. You could also swap it for a spice or herb additive such Fenugreek or Garlic. or even Paprika or Chilli Powder.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #281 Cheers, just weighing up a few options before taking the plunge and rolling my own. The selenavite could be swapped for something like kelp powder or Glm I'm guessing?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #280 Its a vitamin and mineral supplement made for horses. Some would say it makes a difference (me) some would say don't waste your time with it. Either way it is one of the better vit/min supplements to use in base mixes, so either use selenavite, or drop it altogether in favour of another additive/attractor.
|
|
|
What does the selenavite e do for the base mix? Is there anything similar to swap it with?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #278 Search for Selenavite E instead, but use half as much. A 500g tub is enough to do 20kg of BM1.
|
|
|
What is this equivite? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Cheers pikeon
|
|
|
In reply to Post #275 If I used flavours then yes I would use talin with any flavour
|
|
|
In reply to Post #275 Give it a try and see what happens
|
|
|
In reply to Post #274 Thanks, would you also use talin with a savoury flavour such as anchovy?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #273 It depends how dense/heavy the other ingredients are- w germ is buoyant.
I'm gussing start with 3% with this bm1 mix and work from there.
Talin is my sweetener of choice
Yes mix the flavour with the egg before adding the base mix
|
|
|
In reply to Post #272 Cheers Sam, the flavouring is mixed in with the egg? Should I use something like sweet ade with liquid flavours?
What kind of % would you use wheat germ?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #271 First of all, I would certainly get a digestive aid in there, wheat germ is a cheap one with plenty of info available on it.
Even more important at this time of year.
Flavour wise it is worth using a sweetener with one, inclusion rates are on bottles.
Better still forget a flavour and add some garlic or chili instead- cheap and very effective
|
|
|
Sorry to bring up an old thread.
I'm looking to roll my own, using smurfs bm1, at this stage I won't tweak it at all.
My question is about flavour/attractor. Do I only need to add my flavour, such as scopex or a fruit like nutrabsits wonderfruit? Or do I need to add anything with it?
Never rolled before so just need pointing in the right direction and ill try and work things out myself.
Can you give inclusion rates in a 1kg base mix?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #269 it was 10 g of betaine an not 25g.......just consulted my receipe and smurf (peter) suggested 10g
|
|
|
In reply to Post #267 2.5% betaine = 25 grams
That much betaine Chop it down to 0.5% ... 5g is sufficient, MAX 10g.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #267 I divided the mix that smurf posted and divided it by 9 (9eggs) to get the 1 egg mix - i used 1 large egg and it was perfect , not sticky at all . I used nectarblend instead of megablend , that was the only difference to original recipe
|
|
|
In reply to Post #266 30% LT94 fishmeal = 300 grams
15% (supergold 60) = 150 grams
13% megablend= 130 grams
10% Semolina = 100 grams
10% Soya flour (heat treated) = 100 grams
8.5% pre-digested fishmeal = 85 grams
8.5% lamlac = 85 grams
2.5% Selenavite E = 25 grams
1 % betaine = 10 grams (EDIT...it was 10g,i just checked and smurf said drop it to 10g)
10% rred = 100 grams
3 mil of monster crab liquid
10 mil of hemp oil to help with rolling
this is my mix and something is making the mix really sticky after gunning it out,
|
|
|
In reply to Post #263 was the base mix sticky at all??
|
|
|
In reply to Post #264 Haven't got a clue mate ! Can anyone recommend anything?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #263 You will get mixed advice RE betaine levels, my advice is do not go over 50 grams per ten kg of base mix.
What betaine will you be using?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #262 Made my 1st batch of BM1 today . A 1egg mix as I have never made boilies before. They turned out amazing , gunned out and rolled really easily.
So a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this very informative thread
I did not add any other ingredients but will probably add a couple of attractor powders to my next "big" batch, thinking of betaine and L030 powder . Can anyone recommend how much of these would go into the base mix ?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #261 I asked peter this and he said that hes used it through the winter months an caught more than his fair share of fish so the answerr is yes its ok.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #260 Quick question , is the BM1 basemix suitable all through the year?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #259 Thanks guys
|
|
|
In reply to Post #258
|
|
|
In reply to Post #257 They wil be fine just dnt boil the backend out them.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #255 Will they still be soft enough to get a needle through though, I'm not having to deal with Crays etc?
|
|
|
Any thoughts on the free amino acids available in the mix?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #254 Whey gel for me everytime where hard hookers needed, drives out moisture and gives a harder finished bait throughout than standard wpc80.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #253 Before i do though, what are the pros and cons of each of Albumin, WPC and Whey Gel?
|
|
|
In reply to Post #252 Ok, thanks guys, back to the rolling board!!
|
|
|
In reply to Post #249 Or blood powder for the cheaper option (just as effective for that purpose)
|
|
|
In reply to Post #250 Between 5 and 10% egg albumin and/or WPC should be fine. Otherwise as he says....hookbaits only
|
|
|
In reply to Post #249 You can make hardened hookbaits by adding 10% Egg albumin.
Do this only on the hookbaits.
Soft baits are more attractive in my mind the rock solid ones.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #248 Just done a session with the BM1 that was slower than the previous one shall we say and one thing I have noticed is that they go too soft for my liking as hookbaits and invariably I was winding in an empty rig in the morning. Currently I am boiling for 90 seconds then drying for 24. I now realise the situation may have been made worse because I had then put them in an airdry bag when I got to he lake. From what I have read on here it appears that the drier the bait the quicker it takes on water and goes soft quicker?? Thoughts??
Also from my searching on here it looks like you can add Egg Albumin or Whey Protein Concentrate to toughen them up a bit.
What would you recommend for inclusion rates in the BM1 mix to get the desired effect? Also, would it be best to make up separate batches of hookbaits for the purpose or make the whole mix tougher, if you see what I mean?
|
|
|
Dose anybody know if there is a difference between vitamealo milk powderand topaz calf milk replacement.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #246 yes and yes
|
|
|
I know this is not the best mix ever but as a first mix will this roll and catch fish.
30% Standard Fishmeal
20% C.L.O
33% Semo
10% Soya flour
7% vitamealo milk powder
Cod liver oil 20mm
Molassesa 30mm
Squid & octopus flavour
|
|
|
Just made up the first batch and I ended up using 13 eggs. Don't know if the eggs were just small but it was a very stiff mix.
|
|
|
In reply to Post #241 2.5 % is not too much on that mix Limey.
But remember you can get usefull vits from products such as brewers yeast and kelp meal/po | |