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In reply to Post #112
"The designer of the original grange is on one of my waters, so I might still be able to punish him :-)"
Who do I have to sleep with to get that recipe?? Loved the grange...
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In reply to Post #109
My guess is that within a few years the cost of decent milk proteins and fishmeals will be so much that they wont be viable in bait anymore because the masses simply wont pay £15 a kilo even when buying ten kilos, so rather than being a bit of a novelty, baits made up with insect meals and addition proteins from yeasts/veg hydros etc will probably become the norm. We might look back on these fishmeal days with rose tinted specs, I saw last night that due to Mr Putin that up to 3rd of fish n chip shops may have to close due to a shortage of white fish and availability pushing up costs.
The late Bob Baker was a member of one of the clubs that I fish but unfortunately I never met him so I wasnt able to punish him for the recipe :-) One of the bait brains behind the original T1 was also a member but I believe he doesnt fish anymore. So another classic recipe lost.
The designer of the original grange is on one of my waters, so I might still be able to punish him :-)
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| | | Cam | | Posts: 6527 |  | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #1
Sorry that you thread turn into a co#k waving competition Dave.
I hope you managed to get some information out of it.
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In reply to Post #105
To misquote that great songwriters, McFly, "it's not all about you......."
And regarding Marks Inbox, to misquote the magnificent manly man, Oscar Wilde, "irony is wasted on the bloke who rolls little balls of stuff for fish to eat."
I know you don't use facebook, but a reply to a reply in a thread, saying "unlike that Spectrum bloke who slags everyone else off......." in a post that was probably seen by a couple of hundred people tops (providing they read every reply) and the vast majority have no idea who I'm on about is hardly "all over facebook". Especially when I replied to Geoff, who you, erm might occasionally "slag off".
I had a cracking weekend ta 
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In reply to Post #108
Where I was coming from is when we're all starting to look for a sustainable/ethical protein source, Pruteen would actually be a decent product. And compared to the Soya/Semo readymades back then, yes it was a much better bait.
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In reply to Post #107
So you could achieve basically the same results by adding in a cheap white fishmeal.
So here’s the modern tutti then
Soya
Semo
Maize
Bit of white fish meal
Icing Sugar
????
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In reply to Post #106
Pruteen, a bacterial protein (Imperial Chemical Industries, Ltd., Billingham, Cleveland, Great Britain), contained 740 g crude protein (nitrogen × 6.25)/kg, of which 147 g/kg was nucleic acid, and its amino acid composition was similar to that of white fish meal.
The value of Pruteen as a protein supplement to diets based on barley and fine wheat offal was compared with that of white fish meal in a metabolic trial covering the live weight range from 20 to 60 kg. The two supplements were compared at a “standard” level, commonly used in practice, and a “marginal” level, discounting the nucleic acid of Pruteen.
There was no significant difference in growth rate, feed: gain ratio, N retention, or apparent digestibility of N, energy or most of the amino acids between the diets supplemented with Pruteen and those supplemented with fish meal.
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In reply to Post #104
From my limited knowledge Pruteen was just an artificial powdered pig feed wasn’t it? I’d have thought you could get a similar protein content from brewers yeast? I wasn’t anything that special was it?
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In reply to Post #104
It's not and a quick message to karl the owner he can check that 
No one, when you tried slagging me off on the a bait group agreed with you.
I'll not get into more arguments with you. you've tried to slander me all over facebook without the experience of using my baits thats the difference.
have a nice weekend
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In reply to Post #103
The original Tutti wasn’t actually a poor bait. Imagine what we could do if Pruteen was still available…….
C’mon Mark, you’re flogging a dead horse here. Even when Paul came on here telling Nick he was talking ******** about Hydra K he glossed over it. Never one to let facts get in the way of a good slag off. I bet his email inbox is buzzing with people telling him you don’t know what you’re talking about……
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just to play devils advocate here, if those consultants were testing Krill at the time, isnt it possible that they werent using a finished version and thats why it failed to catch anything? Is it also possible that what people now buy in the shops is not the version they were fishing with, that it went on to be improved before release?
Whilst its not going to make me popular on here, Ive just read this whole thread in one go as Id missed it, and to be fair to Nick as far as i can see hes not slagged off the fish catching ability of ABS bait, what hes said is that the recipe hes seen for McNut wasnt of the highest quality. We all know that some very basic baits have taken waters apart over the years, the original Richworth Tutti is another example of such a bait. So fundamentally what hes saying isnt untrue or insulting. I cant see anywhere where hes insulted Geoffs knowledge or ethics etc.
For the record Ive used ABS, loads goes into one of my tickets as Geoff is a member on there and so was Digger who worked for him. Its caught obscene amounts of fish from those waters. Ive also used a lot of Sticky as Im fortunate enough if I wanted it to be able to get it at a heavily discounted rate. Ive also used a seasons worth of DNA. So heres my opinion for what its worth.
ABS id use without any hesitation as whatever its made with it catches fish.
Sticky - Id only use the original Krill. My results on Manilla compared to it werent as good and I know several people who reckon their results have been worse since switching to the active krill and are going back to the original.
DNA - I used SLK/S7 & Nutta. I thought the S7 was the better of the three and if I had to thats what Id use. I also use a lot of BAF in my own bait so I have faith in the ingredients they use.
Having said all that if I didnt make my own bait then in all honesty id probably use the Trent Shrimp.
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In reply to Post #101
Dude just stop.
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In reply to Post #100
Stop putting words in my mouth I didn’t say that at all.
I said tge recipe came from the factory, out of pure curiosity my mate ordered some, either 5 or 10 or whatever, and I rolled the other recipe, they were identical.
I know a lot about bait and what ingredients do what in feed bait, these were so close.
I’ve tried speaking to you directly but you ignored my Facebook message earlier, we usually chat on that.
As for the roach angler, you want me to name them when you’re publically saying they blanked or used your bait? Be real.
As I said let’s not argue,
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In reply to Post #99
You glossed over it Nick. In 2013 the only people using the Krill were consultants because it had not even been released. I can name every single one. So who’s your friends?
What I wrote were cast iron FACTS. In 2013 not a single carp was caught from Roach Pit on Krill whether you like it or not. So you’re actually going to argue with me about a lake I absolutely smashed up, and you have never fished and know nothing about? Your knowledge knows no bounds. The Krill had not even been released, yet Sticky wanted me to formulate the bait that later went on to be Manilla… Because of what happened on RP in 2013. I turned them down.
So you’re telling me Geoff gave you the recipe for MC nut, because your mate purchased 5kg for you 🤦🏼♂️
Give it up Nick. Step away from the internet for a while… The more you type the worse it gets.
It’s cringeworthy now.
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In reply to Post #92
I didn't ignore it I replied to it, look at the post numbers.
We can agree to disagree mate, I know people who fished roach pit in 2013 through to 2015 who caught his fish on the krill 100%, theres never just 2 baits because used on a lake and a distinct pattern like that would send sticky bait to the drawing board. the krill has made them literally millions. sticky make more in a week that most firms make in a year, tens in millions in sales each year. also the sole importers of some of the most important ingredients used in modern baits, there is just no comparison on fish caught now. as I said a way back in the post Im not even debating whether or not ABS catches fish I have outright said it does, but that doesn't make it a premium product thats good for the fish.
Geoff may well have been making bait before I was born but thats totally irrelevant, the amount of time working a job isnt indicative of skill, someone whos made bait for 40 years isnt twice as good as someone whos done it 20 years, there could be a chap who really applies themselves and in a short time has the best bait brain out there. learning is not limited or tied in exclusively to time.
The recipe was direct from his factory it is NOT conjecture. if it catches fish, as I say, fair enough.
doesn't embarass me at all mate, I know what I know.
And on a last note, and we get on so take this with a pinch, one of the people I know definitely knows more than anyone else about re bagging lol.
Plenty of people who know what they're doing get their bait rebagged, whilst I dont agree with it in terms of provenance a very sucessful bait on here and another is a company that one of your successful anglers uses.
Im not trying to argue but we have very different opniions on some things, probably we both agree to leave that topic there and chat jovially about other things lol
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In reply to Post #95
few kilo 
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In reply to Post #96
Sounds like it
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In reply to Post #91
BAF and DNA are owned by Steve Carrie, both very reputable companies
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In reply to Post #91
How can a kid making a few KG in his back garden be wrong?
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In reply to Post #92
Well said, the man is a legend in carp baits 
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In reply to Post #92
Spot on.
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In reply to Post #90
Nick, you’re embarrassing yourself now and you need to stop for your own good.
If my previous post which you ignored was not enough… Do you need me to post 20+ UK 40’s and 3 UK 50’s that I have personally caught over Geoffs bait?
Not sure why you would need to purchase 5KG of Geoffs bait, apart from some strange obsession that you are showing on here. You really need to let it go mate seriously. This is doing you no favours whatsoever.
Geoff was making successful carp bait before you were born. Results are everything, and results using Geoffs bait speak for themselves.
I don’t care what some re bagger of his bait said about it turning up in bread sacks… If they had any clue, they would not need someone else to roll their bait for them in the first place. The carp world (especially bait) is a poisonous one. Don’t get involved Nick. I guarantee you that I know a hell of a lot more than you or your friends about the different grades that re baggers buy.
Geoff has been at the game very successfully for a long long time. That and everything else I’ve said are cold hard facts. What you are typing on here about his bait is conjecture, and a whole lot of bitching between people desperately trying to be where Geoff is…. It’s all pretty embarrassing to be fair.
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It’s interesting reading as usual 
JC started sticky baits as I am aware and then it was sold off. After JC I believe, the Xs was created, a hell of a bait, never used it myself but I know people who have and have heard of all the captures that fell to it. The guy behind the Xs was a top Northern carp angler, can’t remember his name at the moment but grapevine and all. more recent baits, can’t comment but they seem to catch well and like most bait companies their ranges have progressed or changed
Stuck in a traffic jam the other day so I decided to listen to the carp chronicles after some comments on here, Dave Moore interviews, which were very good. Later listened to the Callum Wilson one, one of the men behind BAF. Well worth a listen and some facts shared. DNA and BAF have very close links and the man behind DNA knows his stuff, trust me!
For the record I have never used either of the above, sticky or DNA, so there is no bias from me at all
Use whatever your preference is for me. One word, confidence, forget about the rest and focus on your fishing
It’s a fact that most bait companies know 90% more that the people buying the round balls. Carp fishing is done for people now, how much time have you got on your hands is the question?
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In reply to Post #87
I didn't believe the MC nut recipe at first, til I got a mate to order 5kg and I compared it to the recipe I had, Identical.
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In reply to Post #87
He is
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In reply to Post #87
Well said! 👍👍
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Geoff Bowers is a legend. Full stop. He’s forgotten more about carp bait…. Than most will EVER know.
I can’t actually believe some of the rubbish that I’m reading.
So here’s some cast iron FACTS… ‘Not opinions’, but FACTS.
2013, Sticky Krill was conceived. It was the first year SHB started. I was fishing Roach Pit. Sticky had most their best consultants on there testing the Krill. A handful of weekend anglers were using my hook baits and Geoffs freezer bait. That soon changed into most of the syndicate for good reason. That year there was 127 carp caught on the bottom… Five were caught on tigers. 120 carp were landed on S2’s, most fished over Geoffs freezer baits. Zero, yes zero were caught on Krill. The only Sticky consultants who caught… Were the ones who asked for permission to use my hook baits. The others all blanked, all year.
Geoff is a legend of carp bait. Full stop.
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In reply to Post #81
The junk food shops outsell the health food shops, the majority don't care, as long as it catches them fish for an insta pic. Look around and see whare we are, loads of idiots fishing for spawning fish and loads bitching about lakes being closed.
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In reply to Post #1
Have used DNA S7 & SLK in shelf-life, both worked very well for me, I found SLK to be slightly softer than S7.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #83
Coconut ruce… Is that a pelagic species? 
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In reply to Post #82
veg curry with coconut ruce and garlic naan 
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| | | noj | | Posts: 11459 | | | Social photographer... | |
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In reply to Post #81
I do it all for the love of the fish man.
Cool, I applaud that. What’s for dinner?
Fish… obviously 
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I'm not trying to sit here and say ABS won't catch the same number of carp as RG, hand craft, bait works, or any other.
But it's difficult for me to word the view Im trying to give, but to me, bait encompasses more than the ability to catch fish. no disrespect meant but a lot of brands fall short in respect of being what I consider to be well rounded, sympathetically formulated responsible baits. in fact the vast majority do. either through cheap ingredients, irresponsible use of high end ingredients, a lack of fundamental knowledge regarding nutrients and how to balance them, ethical mark ups, sustainability etc I'll even hold my hands up and say two of the ingredients I use I don't truly believe are sustainable, and as a pescatarian I have a moral conflict when using things such as liver and meat products, and Im ashamed at the amount of plastic I use, Im not trying to come across as looking down as if Im gods gift to bait and if it seems that way to anyone I apologise. I just say what I see. I hope that makes sense. Everyone have a lovely weekend.
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In reply to Post #79
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In reply to Post #67
It’s just at my local store mate, they are meant to be doing a refit so they are selling all the stock at low prices.
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In reply to Post #1
Must admit I'd never heard of dna and don't buy bait from a shop, for years ordered from a well known company until a friend started making bait. If I were the op I would want which ever bait I chose to be available to order or better still locally to collect.
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Every. Single. Bait. Thread. 
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In reply to Post #1
Only used sticky the krill a few times, but when I got it right the bait caught them,
not used DNA baits
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In reply to Post #72
Several people have commented and seen the same thing In a lot of threads, that it’s because it’s me saying it that I get the comments, if it had been anyone else make the assertion you’d not try to pick at it.
I’m not naming people because of confidentiality but atleast two on this thread know about bait arriving in bread sacks. One has even sent photos to several people. It’s just when it’s me that says it. If I know something I’m gonna say it unless it’s in someone’s confidence, transparency.
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Here we go AGAIN
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In reply to Post #65
lol pathetic
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In reply to Post #70
Yeah fair point to be fair.
The same analogy can be used to refer to the amount of tripe some "in the know" bait experts spout on here compared to the good info they supply
Back on thread.... Id be happy with either the SLK or Krill in a freezer bait.
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In reply to Post #69
I’m referring to a different company not being as good as the two mentioned.
However it’s naive to think that just because people go to the same supplier, that baits will be of compatible quality.
AA baits for example, sell CPSP90, one of the best powders you can put in a bait, there also sell the cheap cereals.
One of them may buy a ton of the former, the other, several tons of the latter but use the same supplier?
There is a vast proportion of this forum, who are blissfully ignorant to what goes on in the bait world, and there are a few who know exactly what goes on but don’t call it out, I’m not happy to be on either team and if people aren’t ok with it that's there problem.
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In reply to Post #20
Amazing to state this, especially when one realises how much the two companies buy from the same suppliers 
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In reply to Post #57
Only sticky bait I've used and that was only because it was given to me.
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In reply to Post #63
I can't see that deal,only 15% off online
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In reply to Post #62
Because they know truth gets shot down lol.
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In reply to Post #63
WowsA 
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I can only comment on the sticky baits, krill has been brilliant for me since I started using it last year, I normally get bait off a friend but been struggling for freezer room so tried the krill in shelf life and haven’t looked back, get it from my local go outdoors and with my discount cards I can get it for £34 for 5 kilos so it’s a no brainer. They have had a 30% off sale at the minute so been getting it for £28.35 for 5 kilos, safe to say I’ve stocked up.
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In reply to Post #58
Yet they dont.
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In reply to Post #60
And the original sticky bloodworm pellets were far better than their current ones imo
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In reply to Post #53
It’s a shame the original frozen bloodworm sticky boilies aren’t around. They were excellent for me on a silty estate lake. Never had much time for the new baits
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In reply to Post #58
If you say so Nicholas, if you say so....
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In reply to Post #37
Two people who've commented on this thread can confirm the bread sacks.
Thats the last I'll say to you, you'll just get banned again in a month. and I cant stand people who hide on forums anymore. enjoy your life mate.
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In reply to Post #53
Did well on these for a while, thing I only changed because of price and me earning feck all at the time.
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In reply to Post #55
Aaaah ok
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In reply to Post #52
No that was him too. He blocked a target fish into a small channel using a load of bricks. Sounds so far fetched but he really is quite the stroke puller
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In reply to Post #53
back on thread 
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Anyway if I had to choose one it would be sticky bloodworm.
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In reply to Post #49
No not heard that one I don’t think,didn’t he do one with soap in the water or am I thinking of someone else
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| | | Cam | | Posts: 6527 | | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #50
DNA weren't around when that allegedly happened Ian and Sticky certainly weren't in their current guise.
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In reply to Post #48
It might do cam, he's could have been with one of them at the time. He's been with most.....
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In reply to Post #47
Surely everyone knows the story of Jim Shelley and the pile of bricks...??
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| | | Cam | | Posts: 6527 | | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #47
One that has naff all to do with DNA or Sticky baits....
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In reply to Post #46
What story is that then
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In reply to Post #43
He's not bad at building boundaries too on one water if the story is true.....
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In reply to Post #35
I have to agree with this. Not all of us have the knowledge base the older crowd does in regards to bait. It's too easy to go with a company that is thrown in our faces, the bait catches me fish and I'm happy with it so I needn't change.
I moved off A bait wasp onto DNA and while the quality may be different I haven't got the foggiest how as I've found learning about bait is opening up an entirely new hobby in itself and something I really don't have time for.
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In reply to Post #43
Totally, we are all different 
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In reply to Post #42
Love or loathe him he has pushed the boundaries, too far for some maybe.
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In reply to Post #41
How dare you
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In reply to Post #40
I'm sure many have fished places that piling it in is the kiss of death and they just close up.
Pushing the boundaries, are you uncle Jim? 
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In reply to Post #39
Had some of My best fish, single rodding, thay know
One of the best bits of advice I ever had was "push the boundaries" that advice has followed me for many years and sometimes transformed my angling
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In reply to Post #34
Regardless of the large hungry stock I go fishing to catch them not feed them, by your own admission you don't pay full price but go to say if you had to you would PROBABLY still use them. Knowing bugger all about bait but I do know beyond doubt the guy that uses the most bait doesn't always catch the most fish. The main syndicate three hundred yards from my front door has been fished by a few of the big names but I can only think of one angler that has ever dominated the place catching all the sought after ones in less than one season and he fished it with one rod and single hook baits.
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All this talk of deals, then look at something like the optimum from Rollin baits at 13 quid a kilo. Is it that much better?
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In reply to Post #19
Several people could confirm it? But they mysteriously don't, and yet you stick the boot in at every given opportunity!! It's cringeworthy
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In reply to Post #30
Never skimp on bait,
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In reply to Post #30
Of course cost is not the be all and end all, but it has to be a factor. Paying £12 a kilo from shops is completely inhibitive if you're wanting to put some bait in; as mentioned upthread, if you can get 20 kg of quality frozen bait for £135 then why would you spend the same amount for 10kg of Hybrid or Cell? It's not like it's "twice as good" (inverted commas because it's very subjective).
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In reply to Post #30
As with everything in the world it always comes down to cost. I fish a lake that has a large hungry stock so I go through a fair bit of bait a year and cost has to be considered but not skimping on quality. Luckily I get Rg for a good price but tbh even if I paid joe public prices I’d probably still use it.
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Forgot sticky or dna. Go RG. Proper bunch of decent lads. The artic crab and vita lac is spot on
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In reply to Post #30
So you mean mesh it and re glug it for the next forty years? 😂
To a large extent I agree, but all these offers will disappear soon. You know as well as me the cost of bait is and will continue to increase for the foreseeable.
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In reply to Post #30
I agree
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In reply to Post #29
Why must it always come down to cost?
Set your budget
Research what actually works and is well made
Ignore deals
Buy 5kg of proven bait rather than 10k in a deal
That’s my opinion on bait choices
Treat each boilie like it’s the last one you will ever own!
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In reply to Post #27
Their 20kg is the one for me. £135 for this plus liquid and hookbaits
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DNA SLK is a carp catcher like most baits…….if the fish are in your swim they will eat the lot……
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In reply to Post #26
Just had email from DNA offering 10 kilo (2 x 5 ) plus 1 litre liquid plus pot of hookbaits for £90 postage free
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You can get krill cheaper than that.
with a gun to my head out the two I pick sticky.
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In reply to Post #23
80 for 10kg Sticky Krill,wow that's expensive
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In reply to Post #23
I’ve had 4 x 1ltr liquids for £40 postage free(they do a lot of P&P free deals)
And 10 kilo of bug 15mm/18mm for £60 show price
And last year had 5 kilo of slk and pot of pop ups and 1 ltr liquid for £50 bargin & postage free
You also collect points with them to so me and my brother (he’s a match fisherman or tiddler basher) he has the liquids and the pellets and he’s been catching really well on the pellets when not many others were catching.
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In reply to Post #17
10 kilo of Krill in most shops is 80+ quid
10 kilo of S7/SLK etc is 60 quid.
That extra 20 is 2 pots of hookbaits and a bottle of liquid. Or add a tenner and you can get another 5kg. Makes a difference in the long run.
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In reply to Post #20
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In reply to Post #16
Bait with high levels of low quality ingredients and doesn’t deserve to be thought of in tge same quality bracket as the other two. I stand by that. I’m not calling it bad bait, just because it’s not high quality doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just the others mentioned are of a higher quality.
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In reply to Post #18
Their bait goes out to re sellers in breadcrumb sacks.
There is several people on here who could confirm that they just don’t want the drama.
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In reply to Post #16
Abs are fine mate. Nick has been trying to tarnish them since he popped up again for some reason
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In reply to Post #15
you cant buy it cheaper than 12? and first one is 6 per 1kg bag?
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In reply to Post #13
Are ABS no good then..
I don't know the "facts" but maybe have mistakenly using them for years..
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In reply to Post #1
I would be happy using both, however between the choice of 6 quid a kilo and 12 quid a kilo, it's a no brainer.
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| | | Cam | | Posts: 6527 | | | MODERATOR | |
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In reply to Post #12
Same here. I am on 3 fish from 4 trips so far. Not all using a Bug hookbait but every one over a spread of The Bug
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In reply to Post #10
Been playing around with bits, made something massively superior to the robins unfortunately its not really commercially scaleable.
Several people on here know the facts regarding ABS, but trent, RG etc are all good lads (Y)
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Have had fish on The Bug on almost every trip I have been on this season. Use with utmost confidence.
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In reply to Post #10
Thanks for clearing that up I was looking at the S7 but was on the SLK. And now the bug still very impressed with DNA on the whole and I caught last night on a bug boilie from the evo range 
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In reply to Post #7
The red dye that was used in Robin Red was banned so this made the Robin Red change slightly so now the S7 isn’t as red as it once was but that’s the only change. Been on DNA for many years now predominantly using S7 all year round but the last couple years or so been mixing the S7 with The Bug and can’t complain. Really liking The Bug at the moment
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In reply to Post #6
Have to agree spod, AM on trent baits this year, found the bait to be the bizzo, and the deals were decent. Also as most know, ABS is the bizzo as well
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In reply to Post #6
Any particular reason you wouldn’t use dna or sticky again mate
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In reply to Post #5
I’ll be honest I did think that last year when I bought the s7 something just didn’t seem the same, still caught on it but something was a bit off
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I will never use DNA Baits again but that's nothing to do with the quality of their gear which is good. Sticky I have not been overly impressed with, it's OK, but that's it.
Personally I find companies like RG Baits or Trent Baits far better, small enough to care about the quality of their gear but big enough to cope with demand and provide a service. RG's Prime is something else...
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In reply to Post #1
S7 is not the same as it used to be,Sticky krill is better than DNA slk.I sold all the DNA bait I had and have gone onto Handcraft Baits,The Herb and Tricknut are very good baits and the service from Gav is spot on
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I have used both for the last few years and would use both again without question, I’m currently using krill and most likely stick with that for a while now but I would use slk/ s7/ bug without a question mate
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In reply to Post #2
I’m on the bug this year last, year was the slk,impressed with it after around a year using it may do a review of dna baits soon
Update on the dna got to the lake yesterday around 6:30 and had a 13:14 full scalled out on a salted bug boilie, the same lake last august was told nothing been out as far as they knew for 5 weeks(was told by a guy who lived near and was fishing every day after work) had 4 out not big but that was on the slk
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In reply to Post #1
Both baits clearly work and both offer a similar bait selection apart from bloodworm/bug. I do find DNAs 20kg deal to be blinding value for money, and sticky don't really offer anything like it.
DNAs cork dust pop ups do tend to be a bit lacking of you're thinking of going that way, their 15mm slk pop ups barely hold up a size 6 chod for me.
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Any one used these companies baits .feed back please.
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Bait