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In reply to Post #38
Lol I doubt I've solved much but one thing I'm absolutely certain of is that shelf life baits are a waste of time as a proper food source. I love this kind of stuff and when you consider how quickly some things ferment it does make a lot of sense. I think mark said that the golden time of fermentation is 48hrs to be at peak usage..about the same time as a bag of cell starts to turn.
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In reply to Post #38
I just bought a bottle of the activator and I will test Bob's idea out. Will make 2 test batches (one with just the cell activator and one with csl, ams some other liquids) and see if there is a difference with my baits after a few days in a bag.
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In reply to Post #35
My neither 
Interesting thoughts
I will go back to Christians comments though. Mentioned this before about the Mainline activ 8 dumbells when they came out, I thought perfect to keep a pot in the bottom of the rucksack, shelf life, not at the races compared to the freezer bait for me. Maybe the preservative kills the “activ” edge
Think you may have solved the mystery, it’s fermentation
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In reply to Post #34
I've always thought that mainline use relatively simple science to create a reaction that is then applied to a pretty simple food source which with excellent promotion is a surefire winner
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In reply to Post #34
I think we are discussing the activ element again 
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In reply to Post #33
As ever I've got a different angle (that's probably wrong) but regarding sugars and yeasty type foods under water I've started thinking that by massively promoting lakebed bacterial activity with the introduction of sugar and food for bacteria, the levels of multiple enzymes secreted by those bacteria could in effect turn a simple sugar/yeast feed into a super food that's very easily digested. Obviously this would take some time to happen unless that process has already started before being introduced, similar to the old white spores on activ 8....mind you, I could well be talking out of my Arris as I'm no scientist
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So are we saying that there is some genuine secret recipe science magic in the much maligned Cell after all?!
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In reply to Post #32
Fascinating stuff. Sugars and yeasts, underwater, perfect for anaerobic conditions too. Maybe carp are just piss heads and like a bit of ethanol in their lives lol, or maybe this is the real reason for the attraction with fermenting baits 
I have out of interest looked at a few brewers super yeasts and some are quite temperature tolerant, since one of your previous posts lol 
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In reply to Post #30
Lol,it's good to keep the grey matter ticking over  . That's interesting thinking about utilising carbs in low oxygen levels  .I guess when you consider the amount of commercial fisheries that must be borderline non existent d/o levels then a bait that's easier to digest with energy provided from lipids and a lower protein source requiring less energy to digest is a winner  ?..As for phytase, wasn't that supposed to make the "cereals" more digestible via better uptake of potassium?...
Edit. As for amylase, it's easy to use as it works in varying pH as well as wide temp band dependent on type of amylase. As long as the starch is gelatanised then itll turn well
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In reply to Post #29
Truth is I have no idea trial and error might tell you something, a test mix with just the activator and no other liquid additives and one with them all, mix, boil, freeze and then thaw out in an airtight polybag and see if they sweat up the same over a couple of days. Might show you something.
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In reply to Post #28
Fermentation = Ethanol.
Goldfish and carp metabolize carbs differently than other animals when oxygen is scarce. The creatures convert these carbs to ethanol, which they expel from their gills. This means the lactic acid does not build up in their bodies, allowing them to survive in the low oxygen environment. Wonder if this is the real reason for the attraction, as well as a free meal 
The Mainline mystery continues
I’m guessing fermentation is far easier to produce consistently in a freezer bait than controlling an enzyme. I remember the old grange thread and it claimed Phytase was the enzyme used, and then the CSL
You always get me thinking Lincs
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In reply to Post #27
In this mix (as you know Bob), i use brocacell, keramine, fructose, csl and a vanilla extract (alcohol + sugars) and a stevia sweetner. Do you think that mix will profit from that liquid then?
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In reply to Post #27
So I guess the reaction is one of a fermentation type which as you say won't happen with preservatives. So if we had a basemix that could promote sugar production and add a yeast to feed bacteria/wild yeasts as well as being nutritious to carp and a liquid that could trigger the production of sugar via amylase then we could be half way there?
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I read, or heard a comment somewhere that mainline cannot make a shelf life version of the original cell because the "stabilising" chemicals stop the reaction within the bait once the activator is added. This is probably why they say don't add other liquids many (most?) of which contain preservatives.
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In reply to Post #25
If using micronised maize with the amylase you end up with an almost corn sweet tasting liquid. Trying to roll a sugary solution into a bait is a sticky nightmare unless it happens when it's heated!! I'm guessing here but with the inclusion of celmanax you could have quite a potent mix of "attraction"?
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Bait