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In reply to Post #29
Esterblend 12 maybe
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In reply to Post #53
Got a sample from them a long time ago and it isn't/wasn't the same. It has been suggested they can make a 'stronger' version to special order but its not the strength that is not quite the same. I just don't get the same smell/taste from it in a bait when I rolled a test bait with it compared to the last of the previous suppliers I still had.
It may well still catch fish but after 20 years using Karpi (and working hard to get it copied once before) I am moving on unless someone can prove to me they have the Duncan Kay recipe. I suspect that will never happen now but all good things come to an end.
On the plus side it gives me a chance to try some other 'classic' flavours I have not used before. Going to give Maplecream a try, not that different from Karpi so I start with high confidence 
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In reply to Post #39
Hi Smurf,
Sorry to just jump in, but was browsing and saw your comment. New to the forums and bait rolling.
Anyway re. the Karpi I don't know if this is of interest? https://www.catchitlabs.co.uk/product/red-carpi/
I can't attest to the product or anything but may be worth a look. Smaller bottles are available from http://www.baitboosters.co.uk Hope it helps.
Regards,
Dale
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In reply to Post #51
I have tried the sea monster, wouldn't say it smelled of koi rearer.
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In reply to Post #1
Has anyone tried baitworks sea monster booster? apparently a heavy ammonia/spicy squid type aroma similar to vintage S&O batches.
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In reply to Post #49
Solar club mix what a bait and key ingredient was their squid and octopus try and source this and you'll be on to a winner.
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In reply to Post #48
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In reply to Post #47
My stuff from biologic arrived - smells great, propper hoofing squid and octopus with backnotes of babies nappies.
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In reply to Post #46
Qualitybaits's Squid and orange is a combination of their Squid or Squid and Octopus and Orange essential oil.
They buy large quantities of the Squid or squid and Octopus and supply in bulk to several bait firms both here and Europe, though may not be sending to Europe any more LOL
You need to e-mail them for bulk deals.
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In reply to Post #45
Is this quality baits their squid & orange? Or something different?
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So after reading through this, out of interest, who is selling the best, near as it one then?
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In reply to Post #43
Strange the things that you remember. I was stood in my swim on a syndicate water and one of the other members that I knew popped around for a chat. He showed me this bait and asked my opinion of it. He said that it was from quality baits and I always understood that they were not necessarily of the best quality, no pun intended. As soon as I smelt it I thought that is solar squid and octopus, it wasn’t the smell of fish it was the pepper that gave it away.
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In reply to Post #42
Well as a well known angler who solar sponsored allegedly
Got his hands on a few gallons off the back of a lorry you could be right
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Just to add my tuppenth worth. I remember a guy using some bait that was made by quality baits. I think that it may have been there ready rolled Patshull Park mix but I may be wrong on that. Anyway, the attractor was clearly identical to Solar squid and octopus. It was perfect. Either they were using solar’s version or they have their own version that is near identical to the original. It could be worth inquiring there.
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In reply to Post #40
Very true , my mistake but then it's never been near a squid (or octopus for that matter) in its life and none of them smell like squid to me....just a bit fishy. The point is I think this thread has intermixed Dan and Gaz. Not slatting either of them or their products 
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In reply to Post #39
Gaz sells squid not s&o
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I think some have there wires crossed. Dan (biologic baits) and Gaz (N.B.D) both sell flavours etc on FB. Post 26, 30 and 31 I think is talking about the stuff from Gaz. The other posts are talking about Dan or Gaz or both.
My concern with using both these suppliers for flavours is once I am happy with a flavour I will stick with it for years (current Karpi flavour I have been using for >15 years, now Bob has passed away I can't get it any more...but a podcast last night has given me a new lead to follow up  ). What is the long term supply of these flavours from FB like?
I have 100ml of the S&O from Gaz and rolled a 3 egg mix to try it out. Pond fish loved it. It's more floral than I was expecting though, no doubt that is the Linalool and Thymol in it. Not sure it matches the spice mix I rolled it in so as I want to fish a spice mix (its an itch I need to scratch) I will probably not use the rest of the 100ml if anyone wants it?
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In reply to Post #35
Great guy, full of fantastic advice always willing to help. I'm new to making my own bait and joined the HMBB group who have also been amazing in their help and advice.
I have no idea about his previous employment etc but I would recommend him to anyone. He's got some fantastic stuff that he sells.
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In reply to Post #36
Sounds promising. Thank you I'm looking forward to try.
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In reply to Post #35
His credentials are that he used to work for one of the big bait companies so has a commercial knowledge of the bait game and obviously has contacts. He sources flavours from flavour houses and sells them on. From the flavours I have had off him I would say they are good quality and very concentrated. He adds TMA to his fish flavours so they are very strong. I've had shellfish, crab and salmon off him and they are mega strong, so much so that I have had to stop using them. He's a reliable guy and will always supply what you want. Trades under the name Biologic Baits.
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In reply to Post #34
I am going to try this but what are his credentials? I'm always wary about something 'new' and who's selling it. There are plenty of pretty fantastic bait minds out there so why is this better?.
I will caveat this with the fact that maybe 10 years ago in my local there was a bloke who was reckoned the upmost authority on flavours for crisps and he once said to me ' if you want champagne flavoured crisps I'm your man' few years later there's a few sparkling wine flavour crisps  . Think maybe if I'd probed further he would have had something unique (if I'd known what I was looking for)
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In reply to Post #33
Yep I'm looking forward to getting some of the S&O from Dan too... another stinky flavour to hide in the garage!
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In reply to Post #32
I have been using his squid flavour all year in my bait, had my best season EVER! Have dosed my hookbaits in the stuff as well and the fish certainly list it! Will be trying this new squid & o from Dan along side it.
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In reply to Post #31
Yes it is sorry I wasn't clear, guy name Gaz was selling it.
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In reply to Post #30
This sounds like the stuff the chap on FB is selling 
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In reply to Post #28
I have some of that EA Squid, it is very strong smelling and while I haven't had chance to use it in a feed bait I used it combined with tutti in pop ups and early results have been good.
However it does not smell like the solar product, even with the TMA together with linalool and thymol, both of which apparently add a floral, spice herb type smell.
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In reply to Post #28
We used to put a bit of ester with the s and o on solars suggestion this was back in the mid 90's.
Cannot remember the levels.
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In reply to Post #26
There is a chap on some of the FB bait pages selling an EA Squid flavouring that is apparently high in TMAO. Pics of the drum look legit. Tempted to get some and see how this compares
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My mates still got about a half dozen of unopened bottles of Solar S&O I will have to get one of him and see if it's got that peppery note it, might be the newer one though but they have been hanging around a few years now.
One of the strongest Squid flavours i've ever wafted under my nose with the pungent ammonia kick was Quality Baits literally took your breath away.
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In reply to Post #18
Now you mention it I kind of remember the peppery smell but on a base of swimming pool cleaned chlorine!
Whatever it was it certainly did something once out there.
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In reply to Post #11
Yes it was even used at 50mil an egg and still caught, anywhere between 10 and 20 mil per egg was very successful with the original solar flavour
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In reply to Post #22
Pm me ill invite you to the group, I think its because its private
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In reply to Post #21
Still no joy 
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In reply to Post #19
Because I said biologic
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In reply to Post #18
Is the Solar one not the same any more, the last bottle I had still had the ammonia kick but not sure now you mention it if the peppery tone was still there?
Bloody annoying as they have changed the S&O 4th rod specials that they did from a nice washed out pink to more of a red colour, they were the most consistent pop ups I've ever used as well 
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In reply to Post #17
Cannot find biological baits
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In reply to Post #16
Yes they have that ammonia smell to them (I hate that smell) but the original solar one was a nicer peppery smell which was nice somehow. I have also found that modern versions don’t like heat hence why many use it much higher levels than perhaps before (John baker explains it in his little YouTube clips)
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In reply to Post #1
Check out biologic baits on facebook. He specialises in flavours and has some Squid and Octopus landing soon which has been sourced to be the same as the original solar gear , which has been said is not the same as it used to be.
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I read, I think on Wikipedia, that TMA in high concentrations smells like ammonia and that's what I thought the original solar Squid and octopus smelt of, well it did to me.
I have never smelt an alternative Squid flavour that smells like the original.
Interestingly, well I think it is, TMA in low concentration smells like rotting fish which is what most associate it with.
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In reply to Post #5
Your nose is spot on!
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In reply to Post #13
Understood
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In reply to Post #8
The reason for these high levels in a 1 eggs worth, single hookbait mix was down to the fact that it's original make up was indeed very alkaline, the synthetic version is not as.
So you could get away with these high levels.
Even if you know where to get it, the original, a friend of mine said late, last year, was in the region of £300 per litre 
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In reply to Post #11
It was very useful... I told him that old values dont matter anymore as flavour is not the same and because of that he will have to experiment and when finds what works he can share it with other anglers.
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In reply to Post #7
Just stay out of threads if you have nothing useful to say, its not needed. My post was at least constructive and relevant.
I have dug an email out from Martin Locke who recommends 5ml/ egg of the current Solar stuff. I know Frank Warwick used to use it at 20ml (and more) in the past
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In reply to Post #1
Used the original Solar one early 90's at 7ml per 1egg mix, sorry can't comment on the newer or other variants.
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Catchit S&O is a synthetic flavouring, Solar original was organic compounds found in natural food
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In reply to Post #2
20ml of Squid for a hookbait mix?
Sounds very high to me... but never really used it. N Butric sounds right amount.
At them levels, I would definitely say make sure you boil them outside.
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In reply to Post #5
So how did yours help?
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In reply to Post #1
The Catchit S&O smells similar, but different to the original Solar stuff.
Nevertheless, I've caught well on it using hookbaits with 2ml per large egg. The normal boilies were 4ml per 6 egg mix. I didn't add anything else.
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In reply to Post #3
Helpful reply
Solar still do a S&O flavour, whether it is the same as the original I dont know. Essentials Natural Squid is meant to be a good one, as is the Catchit S&O. I only have a sample of this but it doesnt smell as peppery as the original Solar stuff to me.
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The catchit flavour smells similar to the old s&o👍
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In reply to Post #2
doesnt matter what you knew, flavour is not the same so you can try and tell us later what worked well.
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In reply to Post #1
I have asked the very same question as I have forgotten the millage dosages for my pop up mix, the additives that I used that worked very well was the solar squid all day long plus N Butyric acid but for the life of me I have forgotten the millage dosage, all I vaguely remember squid was around 20mm or just over N Butyric was around 3 drops
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Im hoping to make some s&o hookbaits. I was going to use polaris mix with some glm powder @ about 10%.
Obviously the solar one is in my opinion the benchmark but quite expensive. Is the catchit labs one any good and what sort of inclusion levels should I be looking at for each? And should I be adding anything else - sweetener or oil maybe?
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