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   Old Thread  #58 19 Aug 2020 at 7.50pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #52
i DO get your point, but you are continually ignoring mine, and the same point made by others.. you have also not suggested a solution, " l still don't think all the risk should fall on the angler." - are you suggesting the angler and lake owner share the loss? This whole situation is now a sheet sandwich and somebody has got to eat it. Given you don't think it should be the angler then you obviously think it should be the lake owners.

Frustrated contracts: May 2020 article referring to the former lockdowns and travel bans when it WAS illegal to travel. During this period (3 months of our 7 month season) we, like many others, swallowed the poo sandwich and deferred and credit noted all bookings. Not a drama this year, but won't be much fun without the income next year. Unlike some, we have eaked out our money and also deferred the balance payments, so we have a fighting chance next year. FWIW also, for properly registered French lakes, French consumer law protected French Tourism and allowed for credit notes to be issued and not refunds, so your clever barrister is wrong. The current situation is NOT a frustrated contract, the contract can be fulfilled and it is legal to travel. The problem is that for some anglers (not all) it isn't desirable to travel due to the sting in the tail of quarantine.

I don't really agree on the point of insurance companies currently "not" paying out,, They might, they might not. The insured party could argue that they are following Govts. "only essential travel advice" and therefore have no option but to suspend their holiday. I think an insurer who is paid "to take the risk" might struggle to argue against that.

"Hope something similar doesn't happen to you in future?" It already has mate! I've already bitten the bullet and lost all the money for close to 100 fishing holidays so far, how many have you lost? one?

The reality is that this is fresh and raw, people are upset that they might lose their money. What is sure is that the situation is likely to change and (hopefully) become more clear. There's already talk about re-entry testing 3 days before return travel and, if its negative, you go on as normal. I REALLY must stress how important it is that anglers lobby their local MP to make Govt. realise that the quarantine is a blunt tool and to the detriment of the travelling public and to the holiday trade generally.
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   Old Thread  #57 19 Aug 2020 at 6.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #55
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   Old Thread  #56 19 Aug 2020 at 6.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #53
Totally agree!
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   Old Thread  #55 19 Aug 2020 at 6.31pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #54
The places that are being offered at short notice that I have seen are where the original people have confirmed that they are not able to go due to the quarantine regulations. I donīt think any genuine lake operator would advertise spaces on a speculative basis that people might not turn up for their bookings, how would that help the situation?
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   Old Thread  #54 19 Aug 2020 at 5.55pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #48
I don't think they would offer someone else's space if fully paid up for fear of double booking.
Until the original booking doesn't show, it's taken.
Some lucky enough to still be able to travel may find the lake quieter than usual though.
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   Old Thread  #53 19 Aug 2020 at 5.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #52
Here is a tip for all those planning any type of trip abroad in the future. And for those who can time travel back to 2019..... piece of mind for 2020 trips.
When you book your trip, make sure you buy your holiday insurance at that time. That way your contract with the insurance company is in black and white. You will be covered for everything stated in that contract.
Booking abroad since March has become a lottery. Anyone doing so should know the risk involved and either accept it for what it is or not bother book in the first place. People who booked prior to March 2020 or in 2019 and did not have travel insurance in place for this year's trip have no one to blame but themselves I'm sorry to say. Things change. You need to protect your hard earned. As do fishery owners, as do insurance companies.
French fishery owners have done nothing wrong. Why should they foot the bill? We as customers should ensure we are protected with adequate insurance, bought when we book our trip. Buying it later is foolish and risky. Just think about it. If the fishery owner had to write the year off because of repaying 6 months of bookings, he probably wouldn't be in business the year after. So we all suffer as a consequence.
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   Old Thread  #52 19 Aug 2020 at 1.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #47
And to the post below yours. You're missing my point. This isn't just a case of anglers not turning up for the sake of it. It's a convergence of numerous factors affecting anglers, lake owners and now ferry companies which are complex and no one's fault.

There is such a thing as a frustrated contract - see link below.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/may/22/frustrated-contracts-law-holiday-refunds-coronavirus

You kind of agreed with me by acknowledging that insurance companies aren't likely to pay out if someone decides not to go now. So, ferry/tunnel gets something for nothing, lake owner keeps his share, insurance company keeps their money, don't pay out and angler has nothing to show for his outlay?

I don't have the answer, but to say tough ****, suck it up isn't right. Hope something similar doesn't happen to you in future.

If you can't see the point I'm making, I can't help you.


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   Old Thread  #51 19 Aug 2020 at 12.46pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #50
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   Old Thread  #50 19 Aug 2020 at 12.45pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #48
Perhaps another good idea would be (subject to forum administration permission) is that anglers who are having to give up their holidays without any compensation from the venue operator should be allowed to advertise their holiday to other anglers who might wish to take over the holiday, just an idea!
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   Old Thread  #49 19 Aug 2020 at 12.17pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #48
Some are but unless the venues are paying sponsors on this forum they cannot advertise on here. I know of 1 venue which normally you cannot get on for 2 years which is offering spaces (at discounted prices) and all proceeds to be passed back to the people that have not decided to go due to UK quarantine rules.
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   Old Thread  #48 19 Aug 2020 at 9.31am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #47
One thing I dont understand is why owners are not advertising free spaces more now... There are people that can travel from uk and other countries and would be glad to get free space on lakes that are normally fully booked.
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   Old Thread  #47 18 Aug 2020 at 10.43pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #45
You said... "It's difficult and l still don't think all the risk should fall on the angler. Can fishery owners not have insurance in place for unprecedented circumstances like this in the future?".

The most readily available and routinely taken insurance policy is a Travel Insurance policy. They are sold in their millions year after year. For some reason, a lot of anglers don't think through the need for one. Forget about cancellation for a moment.. what about health cover? The cost of medical treatment in France if you are unlucky enough to have a serious accident are significant. Quite a few anglers will also travel to France without a European Health Insurance Card, again, an essential item in the traveler's health protection bag.

I think a large number of people were compensated by their policies when they were forced to cancel holidays during the lockdown but s you say "Given the current circumstances, I would be very surprised if any insurance company would payout if you are still able to travel to the lake and fish". I agree that it is unlikely that an insurer would pay out in these (the current) circumstances. There's the rub, anglers are not prevented from traveling. Why therefore should lake owners become the insurer of last resort? the final stopping point of risk and loss. YAre you suggesting shared risk?
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   Old Thread  #46 18 Aug 2020 at 3.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #45
Sorry but when anyone purchases a holiday the onus is on you and not the seller to purchase insurance. It is to mitigate against the risk of you not being able to attend in unforeseen circumstances. It is your risk and not the sellers. The policy has to be bought or in place at the time of holiday purchase.
The French fishing lakes are now fully open for business so there is no legal or business reason to reimburse deposits or offer new dates for non attending customers.
Previously the French lakes were closed by their Govt so owners should have reimbursed deposits or provide new dates as they could not provide the holiday as booked. My understanding is that lake owners who had properly registered with the French authorities would have received a grant to help them.
I have annual travel and medical insurance which means I am covered as soon as I book a holiday including fishing trips. If I decide not to go and it is my choice ( for example not wishing to quarantine ) I cannot claim. However, if I am advised by my Govt not to travel to a country I was booked to go to ( such as France as of today) I will be able to claim.
I have previously claimed and been paid in full on my insurance when I could not go to France on a fishing trip due to a family illness.


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   Old Thread  #45 18 Aug 2020 at 1.51pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #36
I didn't......??? . All I'm saying is these are exceptional and unprecedented circumstances and that perhaps, lake owners as well as anglers need to protect themselves at least in the future.

Do you know anyone who has successfully claimed back the cost of a fishing trip? Given the current circumstances I would be very surprised if any insurance company would pay out if you are still able to travel to the lake and fish. It's no one's fault. and I just don't think it's right the burden of risk should be placed 100% on anglers.

There's no easy solution to this and one of the things wrong with life today is we all want easy solutions to difficult problems. I'm just asking a question, that's all.
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   Old Thread  #44 18 Aug 2020 at 1.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #41
I think it is because people these days live in expectation of being "protected" from everything.

We have a society where there is litle understanding or acceptance of risks and or decisions, and the consequences that flows therefrom.

The population generally supported lockdown, but now that it is clear that the consequences of all of this will effect them directly, be it losing a holiday, or losing their job, I gauge that there is less support.

As I said, there s a general attitude that if its "not my fault" somebody else has to pay or make the losses good.

Some things are just nobody's fault and we all need to be grown up and look at the situation and see where the loss and consequences fall. People are generally not prepared to do that, there is an attitude that somebody is always to "blame".

Covid (or more precisely the consequences of the decions made by Governments around the works as a result of Covid) is just one of those situations where we all need to be adults and accept that we will all lose, one way or another, some more than others. Just the way it is I am afraid.

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