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 #232 24 Jul 2020 at 11.04am | |   |
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In reply to Post #231
only what ive been told mate, so don't take it as gospel
half of fence no matter in length or height is a stupid thought. let alone plan...all that money, straight down the drain
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| | | Jon | | Posts: 3334 |  | |
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#231 24 Jul 2020 at 10.57am | | |
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In reply to Post #227
Half a fence?
That's no good at all, especially if it's just the top half, from knee height up.
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#230 24 Jul 2020 at 10.19am | | |
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In reply to Post #223
Okay, so what about native fish species that are being hammered up and down this country?
Certainly man made a huge impact on otters and pushed them to places like Scotland where they thrived and there was a natural balance between prey and predator. Now we have a situation whereby otters have been injected back into the food chain and are having a devastating effect on their surroundings with little to no forethought what-so-ever...full retard.
I suppose that once the easy pickings are stopped with fencing being erected, the buggers will starve and the numbers will decline. Just all a matter of time [shrug]. Wouldn't surprise me that some years down the line Bob Geldoff and Bono with do a Live Aid to save the furry critters and it'll be deemed racist by a load of blue haired crazies to put up fence's.
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#229 24 Jul 2020 at 8.42am | | |
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In reply to Post #227
regarding tracking otter, yes, that's impossible for otters that are already in the wild, and it will never be done purely down to cost of DNA tracing, so that horse has bolted already.
Re habs do have chips in them 
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#228 24 Jul 2020 at 8.10am | | |
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In reply to Post #227
agree mate, half fence is nothing but stupid and wasting a lot of money and heart ache...
re the regulations, again 110% agree, everything needs to be transparent and water tight, but there again, a bit like that idiot who got caught breaking the law shooting an otter and then gets sent down for it, otter people will also break the law
No easy answer hey mate, its one of the reasons I like the subject so much
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#227 24 Jul 2020 at 8.04am | | |
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In reply to Post #226
Half a fence. Now that’s mad, especially asking for peoples money too!!
What my point is that without regulation and recording on the releases everything is pointless gestures. If it’s recorded by the governing body then it can be accessed publicly by way of FOI. It could also be used by fishery owners to reclaim damages from whoever irresponsibly releases on/near a fishery. Like I said, it’s the processes and regulation that needs tightening further. Trapping and fencing are the options, no culls. Next step is ensure it’s done sensibly as both UKWOT and NE admit actually monitoring otters is next to impossible, as is tagging.
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#226 24 Jul 2020 at 7.55am | | |
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In reply to Post #225
we will have to agree to disagree slightly mate.
Im not in the PAG anymore mate, it wasn't really doing anything in my eyes, although I have the upmost respect for all of them
I do however do a lot of work for UKWOK as a fisheries advisor (un paid)
Not too sure what you mean regarding illegal releases, but if you mean Re Hab's,, no, you don't have to keep records, in saying that Dave does
I do agree that there has been some MASSIVE mistakes in the past, ie Phillip Wares activity, of which was completely wrong, but had the backing of higher powers in government after the he was told not to d what he was by the EA
I also agree that anyone keeping otters for whatever reason should be regulated. Re hab centre do have to have a license to do so and are only able to release a certain amount per yr. No captive breed otters are released, its against the law. (not saying some will break the law, obviously they will)
I could type for hours on this subject, but wont.
I also heard that Burghfield is only fencing half the lake....well that is completly pointless
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#225 24 Jul 2020 at 7.40am | | |
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In reply to Post #224
After speaking to them both at length, They don’t. Sorry but if they did then why do they refuse to formally record releases? Why do they collect no data? Why do they allow illegal releases and not follow up with prosecutions? Telling people to put a fence up to protect their fisheries is the easy, barely helpful thing to do. Asking people releasing otters to ‘consider fisheries’ when choosing a release site? But the release site doesn’t need to be recorded. Therefore there can be no prosecutions if they don’t.
I know you’re in the PAG Joss, and fair play but in all honesty I’m not sure where the fight is going, it’s been a while since we’ve heard which changes to the system are being fought for.
Protecting fisheries is fine but changing the system of unregulated releases and monitoring and data collection should be the priority. Formalising a release process which gets authorised by not only NE but also stakeholders surrounding the release site needs putting in place. Maybe going as far as getting carp OFF the non-native list too.
The current situation of being able to release an otter wherever you want without fear of prosecution or legal action if it happens to them destroy a business is not sustainable. No records kept and no monitoring. Dave Webb of UKWOT told me monitoring is “too hard” so they dont do it.
They don’t care otherwise the system would be redesigned to ensure at minimum releases are properly regulated.
Anyway - here’s me turning it in to the otter thread I said to keep it away from.
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#224 24 Jul 2020 at 7.25am | | |
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In reply to Post #223
with respect, ive never tried to fool anyone. NE and UKWOT do care.
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#223 24 Jul 2020 at 7.19am | | |
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In reply to Post #221
As if you didn’t know otters are native to this country and have been here for longer than carp have 
You’d think with all this talk of natural balance that people would deem it acceptable to try and reestablish an animal that humans nearly made extinct. The vibe I get is that rhinos being poached to extinction is some form of natural selection 
It was a man made decline of otters, thus the solution is a man made one also. Don’t get me wrong it’s a total F up, and still is. Don’t let anyone fool you in to thinking Natural England or the UKWOT actually care in the slightest about fisheries. I’ve had some conversations and asked some questions and I can tell you now that they literally don’t give a toss, superficial gestures have been made to help but it’s only to stop further outcry and possible legal challenges in the future.
The picture is very bleak, even with fencing.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 9623 |  | | Social photographer... | |
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#222 23 Jul 2020 at 11.33pm | | |
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In reply to Post #221
Or Tarka and lord Fauntleroy 
As everybody is so obsessed with natural balance maybe we should stop stocking fish and allow nature to run it’s course, or give up fishing and start live baiting with 20lb carp and call it ottering.... or just fence the carp in and carry on over feeding, hooking, banking and starving them of oxygen because we love them so very dearly
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#221 23 Jul 2020 at 11.25pm | | |
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In reply to Post #220
Oh, right.
Well, I hope that sometime in the near future there'll be legislation brought in that that'll make it legal to cull little furry Tarquin so as to bring back some kind of ballance. Maybe when lord Fontaroy gets his favourite salmon run smashed, things will change.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 9623 | | | Social photographer... | |
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#220 23 Jul 2020 at 11.12pm | | |
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In reply to Post #219
Lol
Bravo the idiots that put all those big carp in the water to support the otters long enough to reproduce.
MAN INTRODUCED THE CARP... the otters were here first technically
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#219 23 Jul 2020 at 11.05pm | | |
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In reply to Post #218
Likewise, otters wouldn't be about in their numbers causing a problem if man hadn't artificially reintroduced them en mass. Otter + big carp = nom nom nom.
Without anything higher up the food chain to keep their numbers in check, they'll naturally spread into areas in search of food.
There was never an otter problem until some bright spark thought, I know, why don't we introduce an apex predator that hasn't anything to keep the numbers down, make them a protected species...otter explosion. Bravo that idiot.
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| | | noj | | Posts: 9623 | | | Social photographer... | |
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#218 23 Jul 2020 at 10.44pm | | |
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In reply to Post #217
My point is there’s nothing natural about most fisheries, the predators wouldn’t be there without us putting fish in there
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