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   Old Thread  #2213 3 Mar 2021 at 7.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
So are 200,000 NHS frontline staff and care workers that everyone was clapping last year now anti-vaxers or do they know something we donít?
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   Old Thread  #2212 3 Mar 2021 at 6.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2209
Bloody is......nowt wrong with a bit of skimming here and there!

Moan at me when the big corps are paying their fair share.......until then......well.....
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   Old Thread  #2211 3 Mar 2021 at 5.38pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2202
A covid vaccination passport isn't anti democratic. It's simply a means of identifying if you have been vaccinated or not. You can choose not to be vaccinated, that's a call anyone can make. BUT as someone else said rights come with responsibilities. You can't demand rights without taking on the responsibilities that come with them.

If you don't want to be vaccinated, knock yourself out. But then don't complain if your lose some of your democratic rights, if you aren't prepared to be responsible and do what is right for the greater good.

You're mostly right on the imperceptible creep and subsequent erosion of democracy, but who's been in power for the last 11 years, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say we can't have opposition or go against the status quo. We've had 3 elections in the last 6 years or so. Don't keep voting ***** into power, maybe?

Or do you mean Starmer simply isn't any good at opposing, in which case I'm inclined to agree with you?!



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   Old Thread  #2210 3 Mar 2021 at 5.19pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2209
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   Old Thread  #2209 3 Mar 2021 at 5.11pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2208
Cashless society, forced vaccines through stealth........not good IMO.....

Sounds a right nightmare for tax-dodging cash-in-hand antivaxxers.

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   Old Thread  #2208 3 Mar 2021 at 4.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2207
There is no data to support that though? How many mutations are there currently? The 2 variants of concern so far are more contagious, not more deadly!

The fact there is no current plan to vaccinate under 18s blows that out the water. Over 100 million cases worldwide and we have 2 variants being mentioned and the scientists already have the ability to tweak the current vaccines to suit.

Cashless society, forced vaccines through stealth........not good IMO.....
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   Old Thread  #2207 3 Mar 2021 at 3.29pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
While you are still free to smoke, drink, take drugs, ski, skydive, drive like an idiot and go on bouncy castles pissed, yet still get treated in hospital if you happen to need it, I don't think you've got too much to worry about.

I don't think the covid vaccine should be mandatory, but if being able to prove you've had it allows access to services and places that are desperate to re-open, then I'd find it hard to sympathise with those who don't want the jab then moan they can't get into the cinema.

As with so many areas of society, it's all about rights AND obligations.

Wayne - if it continues to go round in younger people there is more chance of it mutating into a form that will start killing vaccinated pensioners again. Is it that difficult to understand?
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   Old Thread  #2206 3 Mar 2021 at 3.21pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2205
Does it matter if it is being passed around if the over 55s are vaccinated though as they make up 99% of the deaths already incurred!



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   Old Thread  #2205 3 Mar 2021 at 2.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2203
The historical - and still present - issues regarding our systems and the BAME community are definitely something that needs addressing. I'm in absolute agreement there. And that goes much deeper than reluctance to trust the covid jab. Systemic racism will do that unfortunately.

And as I said - there are many people who have been fed misinformation - this needs addressing in as many ways as possible. For some, maybe it is the Queen, for others it's Ian Mckellen or John Barnes or whoever. There's no one size fits all - so as many avenues as possible need to be explored.

However - there are those who are simply refusing based on other selfish reasons and it's hard to have sympathy for that attitude. It is a fact that vaccination against a virus reduces transmission rates (not just covid here). So if offered the vaccine and it is safe for you, then I believe you should have it.

I'm yet to see the proposals for the passport being used to deny pensions / benefits / healthcare (although the irony of that doesn't escape me - 'I want healhcare!' - ok here's some healthcare - 'i don't want your healhcare!' ...Or maybe 'I want healthcare!' - sorry we are busy dealing with more covid cases because the virus is still being passed on by people who didn't have a vaccine. you'll have to wait...)



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   Old Thread  #2204 3 Mar 2021 at 12.32pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Contactless increased to £100.........

Well said Hadrian, Its not simply about being anti vax.........Its about the way it can manifest into so much more than simply protecting already vaccinated people who have a 80% less chance of serious illness......
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   Old Thread  #2203 3 Mar 2021 at 12.23pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2201
Look at the BAME community, virtually no take up... Why? Mistrust of the establishment, a legacy of discrimination and historical and unethical medical practices. Who can blame them? Kick a dog in the balls and it ain't going to come and lick your face. Wheeling out some black sport star, actress or knight of the realm ain't going to pull the punches unfortunately.
You say you agree (and I'm not looking for an argument here btw), but then state using the vaccine as a tool to withhold people's rights, which is what any covax passport will be about, not getting into a nice restaurant or a long haul flight etc, but withholding basic access to healthcare, benefits, pensions etc.
It's a very steep slope we are on and the crocodiles are waiting at the bottom...
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   Old Thread  #2202 3 Mar 2021 at 12.07pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2199
But it is mate, through an almost imperceptible creep, it's just one of a multitude of changes to democracy. How can we be a democracy when we can't have opposition or go against the status quo? By the time we've let it happen, it's too late to change. The likes of de Pfiffell and Sir Kier will still be hanging around our necks like a noose in the future just like that ****tard Blair.
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   Old Thread  #2201 3 Mar 2021 at 12.01pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2199
I'm very much in agreement

I'm in no way a supporter of the gradual rewriting of our rights and laws by an increasingly underhand government - but the covid anti vaccination thing pees me off. it's not about control, it's about protection of self and others.

'i want to preserve my right to pass on a potentially lethal virus to others' - selfish b*****ks. like a 20 mile per hour speed limit next to a school infringes your basic human right to drive really fast past a load of kids....

If I knew a restaurant near me was running a 'passport' type set up, it would be immediately higher on my list of choices for a meal out with my family. it's not elitism when the entire adult (and who knows - maybe afterwards they'll look at children too) nation is going to be offered the vaccine.

after the devastation it has brought to the country I still can't believe how selfish some people are being. If it's a case of misinformation, then some targeted redressing the balance is needed. there are some people who are fearful through simply getting the wrong message. this needs to be addressed at source as well as with the people who are duped.

and there are some people who can't have the vaccine for medical reasons - but this can be addressed too with a simple exemption that could as easily set up as the passport app.

just read that furlough has been extended until September - maybe make that dependent on getting a jab and see how it shakes things up...
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   Old Thread  #2200 3 Mar 2021 at 7.45am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2198

We have been on a slippery slope for some time now , but you are barking up the wrong tree with that one !
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   Old Thread  #2199 3 Mar 2021 at 7.24am Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #2198
Seriously, bud. There are many more serious and important things going on which are destroying democracy. And covid vaccinations ain't one of them.
FWIW, I'm very Liberal and have no problem with the concept of vaccination passports. I'm much more worried about the ignorant and selfish ****s who want to have their cake and eat it and put everyone they come into contact with at risk because they read some bull**** on social media.
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