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American Riots
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Jon

Posts: 3267

#279 8 Jun 2020 at 2.42pm

I'd imagine Auschwitz is preserved because it is a relic of a horror that should not be forgotten.

Statues are a celebration of, and a tribute to the subject.

They're very different things.

Greekskii

Posts: 1833

#278 8 Jun 2020 at 2.26pm

In reply to Post #275
a majority wore masks, look at the pictures, masks that the government are now saying work so well to minimise the risk of spreading the virus in close contact that they've made them mandatory on public transport....and are these the same social distancing measures of 2m that Boris wants to halve to 1m so we can all go have a pint in the pub, without wearing masks?

henrtopcarper

Posts: 473

#277 8 Jun 2020 at 1.52pm

In reply to Post #276
Totally agree with that
There are similarities to indigenous Australian Aborigines who have been treated abominably down the years but in recent times, lets say the last twenty to thirty years they have received a lot of help and been given many rights by the Australian government and deservedly so like housing, welfare, land reforms etc...you name it and they were given it but the problems of the past are hard to shake off, and it is their ancient culture that is what they yearn for which doesn't really work in modern day Australia they have bad health issues, terrible drink/alcoholism issues, you cannot make drastic changes in a generation or more let alone a year or two
I remember reading in the 80's when I was living there that more Aborigines had died in police custody than Blacks in South Africa, seems hard to believe and whether it was true or not who knows but it wasn't the era of fake news back then

Butterbean35

Posts: 764

#276 8 Jun 2020 at 1.43pm

In reply to Post #262
Hi Scozza,

I agree and you are reiterating what I've been trying to say.
In terms of opportunity and affluence, we in our Western democracies are in the top 1% of people on the planet.
In the US, millions of ethnic minorities and legal immigrants work hard and lead comfortable, successful lives. They will mostly have been raised in functional families with responsibility and a work ethic.
Inner city blacks raised in 75% mother only families on welfare with little father guidance, bad schools, bad role models on the streets, gang culture and crime, it's no wonder not too many of them, go on to lead successful lives. Attributing their problems to systemic racism is just na�ve and missing the point.

BB.

Edit.
Mal, so in that case, why is Auschwitz maintained as a reminder of the holocaust?
Why not just tear that down and just teach it in schools?

Sir_Blankalot

Posts: 12918

#275 8 Jun 2020 at 1.41pm

In reply to Post #272
why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Unlike the other incidents it was caught live, the demo was not authorised with and no social distancing took place putting everyone at risk.

Sir_Blankalot

Posts: 12918

#274 8 Jun 2020 at 1.32pm

In reply to Post #271
Remove it yes put it in a museum and add a plaque describing the reason.
I'd like it to be recovered and that to happen.

henrtopcarper

Posts: 473

#273 8 Jun 2020 at 1.28pm

In reply to Post #266
oops typo, I typed scared when I meant to type scarred, its important to make this distinction, no scars here and mostly water off a ducks back
Greekskii, you say racism was rife in the 80's, i'm sorry but I looked more foreign in the 80's than I do now and often got taken for being Greek or Italian rather than being half Asian and I can honestly say I was never on the end of any racist comments, I agree there was racism then as there is now but to say it was rife is in my opinion incorrect, the majority of people in this country have a live and let live attitude but that seems to be overwhelmed by a minority, just like the protests now where people protest peacefully and a minority start trouble, no matter how much society changes these people will never be satisfied
Ive known some very racist black people in my life so it goes both ways, its not a one way street mate

Greekskii

Posts: 1833

#272 8 Jun 2020 at 1.21pm

In reply to Post #256
this is my exact point, why was it not the front page news? yet this is.
Why did people not have facebook search warrants so these people 'get whats coming to them' but they have for the most recent ones?
Why is it okay for football fans to technically racially target a swedish business and trash it?

Its quite hypocritical is it not?

Being from an ethnic background (although being born and raised in England) I have been first hand a victim of racism, nothing major but plenty of comments and some intimidation. Not as a child but as a teenager and adult, mainly due to EE migration in to this country. The usual "go back to your own country", "foreign c*nt" as well as more vile things like "Hitler shouldn't have let any polish survive" (ironically from people that also bang on about winning the war, even more ironically they believe the British did it without anyone else's input, which couldn't be further from the truth). I've even cut ties with so called friends over it, as much as the very dark banter as a friendship group goes, the constant repetition of something quite hostile goes to show that there must be some truth behind it.

What I do see amongst British people (and its true of many other people too before anyone starts saying im being racist) is that there is an unwillingness to listen and accept negative traits and out of order behaviour when it occurs. God forbid you try to point it out as I have done before, only to be met with "go back to your own country then you **** if you dont want to accept our ways" not that I was born here or anything, or that accepting clear racial prejudices is something you have to do if you live in this country.

The casual racism that exists is rife, it is mad to deny it does, jeez I was even mildly racially abused on this forum ffs. There are full on racists that exist, i've met them before, and it only takes these people to be in positions of power (teacher, manager, owner, politician, policeman, etc. to input racist values in to the system, to stop someone getting a job because of their heritage, to refuse entry because of their skin colour, to target people of certain skin colour and treat them poorly, to purposely or accidentally teach others your views, especially children.

Ask yourselves, how may of you have that racist grandparent or uncle or aunt that we so often hear people talkin about? Think to when your parent or boss or teacher or friend said something racist, think about what you grew up around (the 80s was rife for racism, its well documented) now not one single person will they've never heard or seen something racist in their lives, no matter how mild or major it was. Most of us have upbringings involving being able to mix with a large number of people and form our own thoughts around race from childhood. But there IS people in this country that dont allow their children to do that, they have racist views themselves and they are forced upon their children as a value, whether they are white, black, purple or blue. Rooting that out of society, coupled with education, will long term eradicate the problem. The younger generations are so much more tolerant and accepting as a majority, you root out and cure the racism being taught to people NOW...then in 80yrs it will have died out completely. But who the **** wants to wait 80yrs?? bit too long isnt it...

...the cure for it now is simply to soap the swim next door and get haulin

mal

Posts: 4948

#271 8 Jun 2020 at 1.18pm

In reply to Post #270
Hi BB

benefactor with money from the slave trade.... a bit like those businesses built on the gold that Nazis stole maybe

i'm guessing that the vote wasn't a 'keep or not' thing where a majority was needed. Education is vital - evidently.

It's the right thing to remove these type of statues - AND educate people as to why.

have a good day man

Mal

Butterbean35

Posts: 764

#270 8 Jun 2020 at 1.02pm

In reply to Post #255
Hi Mal,

If the residents of Bristol had a majority to take down that statue then, as they live there, I suppose it would be their choice to do so.
However, it's having been there now, at this time in history, was not a celebration of what he did in the past, it's a piece of history which shows what was considered acceptable behaviour and commerce in the past.
It might be disconcerting and uncomfortable to some to realise that this man, although a slave trader, was at the same time, a generous benefactor to his city, and so much so, that they erected a bronze statue in his honour. We like to think that people like him were evil and without any redeeming qualites. If all the unpleasant and nasty pieces of our history are erased, then they become forgotten and we and future generations don't learn from the mistakes of the past.

BB.

Jon

Posts: 3267

#269 8 Jun 2020 at 1.01pm

Fishie - I'd guess that the VAST majority of the population think the British police do a very good job in difficult circumstances. I don't know why you think everyone hates coppers, you must have spent too much time in the company of criminals.

Somewhere I have a great photo I took in Whitehall in 2002, maximum terror alert, two scary looking police officers with automatic weapons stood in the rain with what looked like a Japanese tourist - a young woman with a small child in a pushchair. It had just started raining hard, and these two coppers were trying, with great difficulty, to work out how to fit the rain cover on the woman's pushchair, which was this big bit of odd shaped clear plastic with press studs and velcro, while she stood there saying 'thank you very much indeed' over and over. Fantastic sight.

I'm not sure the American police have the same level of trust and public confidence.

bobcross

Posts: 109

#268 8 Jun 2020 at 12.55pm

Just watched a video from a ex black cop Brandon Tatum in the US, brilliant.

www.thescoop.us

Wayne

Posts: 16391

#267 8 Jun 2020 at 12.52pm

What a weekend......Snowflakes everywhere offended by everything and anything, CV19 has now gone, ALL white folk are racist, Keith Lemon apologised for taking the piss out of black singers and GMTV is still going on about Dom.......

Sir_Blankalot

Posts: 12918

#266 8 Jun 2020 at 12.49pm

In reply to Post #265
Nice to hear that Henry, I'm white and don't live that far from you and have similar neighbours so pleased to hear that I'm not wearing blinkers

henrtopcarper

Posts: 473

#265 8 Jun 2020 at 12.41pm

In reply to Post #262
I come from mixed race parents, Irish mother and Bangladeshi father but I AM British and there is no one more patriotic than me, I had many a racist comment when I was at school being called 'paki' etc...and got in many fisticuffs over it but that was 45 years ago and I can honestly say I haven't been subjected to or been aware of any form of racism in my adult life, I have always worked and always felt I have been given the same opportunities an anyone else, i'm certainly not scarred by a few silly names I was called over 45 years ago, of course there is racism and always will be but the way its being portrayed is as if society is inherently racist which it clearly isn't....there are a lot black/mixed race ethnic minorities in this country who have done very well for themselves and then again there are a lot of white people who don't get a fair crack of the whip, its about attitude and endeavour, if you work hard and make the effort to get on with people it doesn't matter what your colour is, where I live is admittedly predominantly white but that's not because I decided I want to live in a white area thus making me racist, its because I like the area and oddly enough the nicest house in the street is owned by a hard working Indian family who you couldn't wish to meet nicer people, ive never heard them complain once about racism


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