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   Old Thread  #1095 8 Apr 2020 at 5.31pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1093
Hi Spanker,

Good to see your rhetoric has toned down a notch or two.

Yesterday, the Chief Medical Officer said there were signs that the daily infection rates were showing a possible levelling off, but too soon to tell and that, later next week would hopefully, show it.

I think, with the press and media, you have to look for the signs of political bias, either by admission or omission and adjust your belief or scepticism accordingly.

No,
I don't have a better source because I'm not actually looking for one.

Good news, Wisden has nominated Ben Stokes as cricketer of the year.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #1094 8 Apr 2020 at 5.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1091
Hi Ocelot,

Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger, but it seems it was nothing to do with member states, as Prof Ferrari said, his beef was with the commission. The intransigence he spoke of was, that he was told, the €2 billion per annum Scientific research budget could only be awarded to scientists who put forward viable claims for research and that the budget could not be awarded by the commission from the top down.
Ferrari was called to a meeting with Von de Leyen to hear his proposal and endorsed much of it, but when news of this reached the commission, it caused a storm and he was accused of ignoring protocol and his proposal was flatly refused.
Make of that what you will.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #1093 8 Apr 2020 at 4.50pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1092
Hi BB

nothing meant with the lower case , i am not that petty ,

I am a realist usually but an optimist when need be , usually when playing cricket for my team ,

nothing gets on my wick more than lies in our media and press , what is the point in telling the nation that "the curve is leveling when it's not , do you think these people will have forgotten by the next days new figures , you have to have trust in the information or you end up with little , if any confidence in anything you are being told and that's where we are now

Honesty , i know it's not part of this governments ideology and some people "put up " with it , sorry i don't ,

That article you don't agree with was from Reuters , do you have a better source ?
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   Old Thread  #1092 8 Apr 2020 at 4.27pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1088
Hi Spanker,

I see you refer to me with lower case letters. Is that subliminal?

I don't agree with most of your post, so that's not a surprise and, as I said before, I'm not willing to debate your political ideology on this thread. I'll just say this. If you don't think channel 4 is left wing, then watch Cathy Newman's attempted denunciation of Jordan Peterson on U tube.

You didn't answer my question. What is your point in posting that list of snippets, other than it serves your political agenda?
When we are all focused in apprehension on day to day events as they unfold, and look for the green shoots of recovery, what benefit does it serve?
It's a bit like the captain of the Titanic blaming the lookouts for not spotting the iceberg sooner.

BB.

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   Old Thread  #1091 8 Apr 2020 at 4.03pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1086
I'll have a stab.
The EU ISNT this all powerful body that we've been told it is by Fromage and Co. The individual states pull the strings as the good Professor has just found out.
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   Old Thread  #1090 8 Apr 2020 at 3.46pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1087
Hi Ken , from what i have gathered from a few reports , they are not very happy with the little help given to the poorer less equipped nation states as they "help their own " also failings as a group , in a response to corona virus ,European unit , yes right , straight out of the window !

I am not a great fan of the European union , should of kept it strictly "trade only" !
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   Old Thread  #1089 8 Apr 2020 at 3.44pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1086
The EU response had been crap.

Every country was making up policy on its own. So much for all the 'EU not letting members do what they want' and 'loss of sovereignty' that the brexsiters were banging on about. No doubt if there had been a coordinated policy, it would have been used as an example of the EU telling member states what to do for the anti-EU folk.

The UK was unrestrained by bothersome EU commands in planning its response, and even refused the offer of collaborating to source more ventilators and PPE, as well as not bothering with lots of Europe wide conference calls regarding the spread of the virus. When this is over we'll be able to tell how wise that was.

Mauro Ferrari resigned as he was disappointed with how things were organised. Fair enough. Hope fully EU wide support and solidarity will help member states recover from the economic impact of all this. Nothing's guaranteed. But the performance of the EU can only improve.

Don't see what that's got to do with MPs who voted against giving NHS staff a pay rise yet lap up media coverage of them clapping the very same people who they now call heroes. That's hypocrisy on a grand scale from elected politicians, but nothing to worry about, let's move on, much more important things to worry about, eh Mr B?
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   Old Thread  #1088 8 Apr 2020 at 3.37pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1085
Hi bb

the majority of the news and media does not hold them to account as they are tory biased , the exceptions being , the guardian , mirror and independent , sky and bbc , well i don't think i need to go there do i , channel 4 is slightly better !

Public inquiry , HONESTLY , you have any faith in a public inquiry , how long does it take for the truth to come out , even when millions already know it , Hillsborough ! Leverson part II ,the historical child abuse inquiry regarding establishment and political figures that went through 3 chairs and now seems abandoned , your having a laugh , the only way that you establish the truth nowadays in the uk is by going to independent reporters and journalists , if you think you are going to get a balanced inquiry in this country you are deluded especially on something so damaging to the Tory party ! if there is one ,it will say the bare minimum , what we already know plus maybe a scapegoat chucked in for good measure , someone who will receive a nice juicy pay off , your faith in the establishment is very misguided !
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   Old Thread  #1087 8 Apr 2020 at 3.36pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1086
How about giving us your considered opinion on why the EU's head scientist, professor Mauro Ferrari and head of their European Research Council, has resigned

No. Not considered the issue.
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   Old Thread  #1086 8 Apr 2020 at 3.22pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1084
Hi Ken,

How about giving us your considered opinion on why the EU's head scientist, professor Mauro Ferrari and head of their European Research Council, has resigned for the reasons he says, of EU intransigence and refusal to release some of their €2 billion annual scientific research budget, to fund a comprehensive amalgam of senior scientists to coordinate a research response to the coronavirus.

BB.
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   Old Thread  #1085 8 Apr 2020 at 3.04pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1083
Hi Spanker,

I would imagine that, once the pandemic is over, there will be detailed studies carried out by scientific bodies to produce a detailed analysis of the whole sequence of events to assess responses and procedures and to provide lessons learned for future reference. It may even involve a public inquiry to report on the overall performance.
So what is your point in pasting news reports that only show a list of snippets of peoples opinions and presenting it as if it was a fait accompli?

BB.
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   Old Thread  #1084 8 Apr 2020 at 3.01pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
Ultimate irony:

Boris himself voted against giving a reasonable pay rise to the very people who are now fighting to keep him alive.

I hope he'll have a bit more compassion when he comes back to Number 10.

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   Old Thread  #1083 8 Apr 2020 at 1.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1082
GAME OVER

It was during the school half-term holidays in February that frontline doctor Nicky Longley began to realise that early efforts to contain the disease were likely doomed.

For weeks now, doctors and public health workers had been watching out for people with flu-like symptoms coming in from China. Longley, an infectious diseases consultant at London’s Hospital for Tropical Diseases, was part of a team that staffed a public health service helpline for those with symptoms. The plan, she said, had been to make all effort to catch every case and their contacts. And "to start with, it looked like it was working."

But then, bad news. First, on Wednesday the 19th of February, came the shock news from Iran of two deaths. Then, on Friday the 21st, came a death in Italy and a bloom of cases in Lombardy and Veneto regions. Britain has close links to both countries. Thousands of Britons were holidaying in Italy that week.

"I don't think anybody really foresaw what was happening in Italy," Longley said. "And I think, the minute everybody saw that, we thought: 'This is game over now.'"

Until then, Longley said, everyone felt "there was a chance to stamp it out" even though most were sceptical it could be done long-term. But after Iran and Italy, it was obvious containment would not work. The contact tracing continued for a while. But as the cases in London built up, and the volume of calls to the helpline mushroomed, the priority began to shift to clinical care of the serious cases. "At a certain point you have to make a decision about where you put your efforts as a workforce."

Edmunds noted that Iran and Italy had hardly reported a case until that point. "And then, all of sudden you had deaths recorded." There was a rule of thumb that, in an outbreak's early stages, for each death there were probably 1,000 cases in a community. "And so it was quite clear that there were at least thousands of cases in Italy, possibly tens of thousands of cases in Italy right then."

Amid the dreadful news from Italy, the scientists at NERVTAG convened by phone that Friday, 21st February. But they decided to recommend keeping the threat level at "moderate," where it had sat since January 30th. The minutes don't give a detailed explanation of the decision. Edmunds, who had technical difficulties and couldn't be heard on the call, emailed afterwards to ask the warning to be elevated to "high," the minutes revealed. But the warning level remained lower. It's unclear why.

"I just thought, are we still, we still thinking that it's mild or something? It definitely isn't, you know," said Edmunds.

A spokesman for the government's chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, didn't directly respond to Reuters questions about the threat level. Asked whether, with hindsight, the scientists' approach was the right one, the spokesperson said in a statement that "SAGE and advisers provide advice, while Ministers and the Government make decisions."

HERD IMMUNITY

On Sunday, March 1st, Ferguson, Edmunds and other advisers spent the day with NHS public health service experts trying to work out how many hospital beds and other key resources would be needed as the outbreak exploded. By now, Italian data was showing that a tenth of all infected patients needed intensive care.

The following day, pandemic modelling committee SPI-M produced its "consensus report" that warned the coronavirus was now transmitting freely in the UK. That Thursday, March 5, the first death in the UK was announced. Italy, which reached 827 deaths by March 11, ordered a national lockdown. Spain and France prepared to follow suit.

Johnson held out against stringent measures, saying he was following the advice of the government's scientists. He asserted on March 9: "We are doing everything we can to combat this outbreak, based on the very latest scientific and medical advice."

Indeed, the government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, SAGE, had recommended that day, with no dissension recorded in its summary, that the UK reject a China-style lockdown. SAGE decided that "implementing a subset of measures would be ideal," according to a record of its conclusions. Tougher measures could create a "large second epidemic wave once the measures were lifted," SAGE said.

On March 12 came a bombshell for the British public. Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, announced Britain had moved the threat to UK citizens from "moderate" to "high." And he said the country had moved from trying to contain the disease to trying to slow its spread. New cases were not going to be tracked at all. "It is no longer necessary for us to identify every case," he said. Only hospital cases would, in future, be tested for the virus. What had been an undisclosed policy was in the open: beyond a certain point, attempts to completely extinguish the virus would stop.

The same day, putting aside his jokey self, Johnson made a speech in Downing Street, flanked by two Union Jacks and evoking the spirit of Winston Churchill's "darkest hour" address. He warned: "I must level with you, level with the British public - more families, many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time."

For most Britons, it came as a shock. Several of the next day's newspapers splashed Johnson's words on their front pages.

Vallance, the government's chief scientific adviser, who chaired SAGE, said in a BBC interview on March 13 that the plan was to simply control the pace of infection. The government had, for now, rejected what he called "eye-catching measures" like stopping mass gatherings such as football games or closing schools. The "aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not to suppress it completely." Most people would get
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   Old Thread  #1082 8 Apr 2020 at 12.27pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1081
that's a great read
Link
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   Old Thread  #1081 8 Apr 2020 at 12.10pm Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #1080
that was the last half of it , for the full report , copy n paste the link 'https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN21P1X8?fbclid=IwAR10Yt-QT7enb6e7NMR-OUdsKLHuzJijSFbs660R40HkJRzrmjC6l36zgvc
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