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   Old Thread  #332 11 Jan 2013 at 1.49pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #330
I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that




i understand really well what you mean Sam. For you, corn gluten meal will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or milk protein etc... and i agree ! when it's used alone ...

in this thread, we talk about it combined with fishmeal and both together give a good AA profile, and give a cheaper finished bait, so why using more expensive stuff ? because they are better ?

technical values on a paper are great, but i'm more convinced by my result on the bank and my own experience have proved me that it is not always the most expensive bait or ingrediant that work better
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   Old Thread  #331 11 Jan 2013 at 11.21am  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #330
i dont have a hard time-i looked at the bio value of prarie meal against fishmeal years ago-theyres no contest, but as some have mentioned-added with a few other ingredients-amino acid balance up.

then again so does poultry meal-and thats papp imo also .
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   Old Thread  #330 11 Jan 2013 at 11.11am  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #329
I am not disputing that, I am just saying it will never be as good as a high quality fishmeal or similar!
Unsure why people have such a hard time understanding that
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   Old Thread  #329 11 Jan 2013 at 11.04am  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #328
There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going

yes and thats essentially as a replacement for the ever increasing cost of fishmeal, prarie meal is a damn sight cheaper !
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   Old Thread  #328 10 Jan 2013 at 7.30pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #327
That is neither here nor there, I am not saying they will not benefit from it, I am saying that in my strong opinion it is not the best product to cover the amino requirements.
The whole point I was trying to make earlier is that I would rather spend extra on the best ingredients. Thats just me, nothing wrong with doing it another way. Smurf put this mix together as a wallet friendly mix I believe, I am sure he will agree that prairie meal is not the best source of protein for carp, having said that maybe he wont agree, Im not sure!
All I know is that it is certainly not for me, not for use of covering aminos anyway. It does have its uses though.

There could be several reasons its used in aquaculture feeds, it doesn't mean its the best product going
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   Old Thread  #327 10 Jan 2013 at 12.07pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #326
Sam, it's not me that i think 90% of it is available, it's a couple of studies i have read that say it is !!!

yes carp don't have stomach, but it as been found that they can digest the same source of protein as pike or salmonids (that have stomach) and benefit from it .

more than one studies have stated that, it's not new ! why soybean meal or corn gluten meal is used in a lot of commercial pellets for Koļ ? if they were less digestible, or the koļ will not benefit from those protein source like fishmeal, i think most of the producer will let this meal for ruminant or other food sector and will continue with full of fishmeal pellet.

let see this link: corn gluten meal: 96% digeastible nitrogen for salmonids, i think for carp is not far from that !
http://www.feedipedia.org/node/12288
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   Old Thread  #326 10 Jan 2013 at 9.00am  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #325
You think 90% of it is biologically available????
Why do you think that? The stated 90% is based on animals with complex acidic stomachs, not a simple alkaline tract that is found in carp!
Carp are not equipped to deal with such a source of protein with any efficiency.
Just because it is used in aqua culture feeds does not mean it has a high BV
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   Old Thread  #325 10 Jan 2013 at 8.50am  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #315
OK what I meant was I would rather get my protein content from high BV ingredients apposed to things like soya flour and supergold 60.
Supergold 60/ prairie meal is supposed to have a high bv, and maybe it has for cattle etc, but for carp?


Sam, have you ever search after the nutritionnal data of Maize Gluten meal, i don't think ...

it is not a well balanced protein alone, but if you put it with a bit of fishmeal, you will have a very good AA profile.

the fact are that the AA digestibility of maize gluten in fish is high for all AA: from 90 to 94% digestibility ! not a poor biological value ingrediant in my opignion ...

it's used a lot in aquaculture as part of a fishmeal replacer, aquaculture need to grow fish fast and well, so if maize gluten was so poor, it will not be used, result proved that replacing a part of the fishmeal content with maize gluten ended up with the same result on the grow and health of fish.

it's high in methionine, that is often the limiting amino in many mixes.

maize gluten is also really cheap (here in france) compared to fishmeal, so using it can cut the cost down of our bait
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   Old Thread  #324 5 Jan 2013 at 9.23pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #322
See post #108 onwards, I drove myself (and everyone else) bonkers with the same question
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   Old Thread  #323 5 Jan 2013 at 8.30pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #322
Why not make that decision yourself and that way you would have had atleast some input into the mix

Best of luck either way
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   Old Thread  #322 5 Jan 2013 at 8.07pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #320
cheers for that . but would that leave me minus 2'5 per cent so if that's the case what could I up the missing . 25 per cent on
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   Old Thread  #321 5 Jan 2013 at 2.53pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #320
Would the real Ken Townley please stand up....
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   Old Thread  #320 5 Jan 2013 at 2.48pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #319
I know I am not Ken but 2.5% selenavite e is ideal
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   Old Thread  #319 5 Jan 2013 at 2.20pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #77
afternoon ken
i was just wondering on the bm1 can i change the equivite for selenavite e if i can would it still be at 5%
cheers kevin
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   Old Thread  #318 1 Jan 2013 at 6.08pm  Login so you can post / reply  Register so you can join in!
In reply to Post #317
Out of interest what liquids did you add?
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